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Be more German

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571 Re: Be more German on Sun Jul 24 2016, 10:42

whatsgoingon

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Frank Worthington
Frank Worthington
bwfc1874 wrote:The positives of her actions still outweigh the negatives for me, she's saved thousands of innocent women and children. There were always going to be issues, it would be naive in the extreme to believe anything else.

You celebrating as if your views have been vindicated SK again just puts your parochial attitudes in full view.
All the camps I've seen on the news the vast majority of people in them have been young males, not women and children.
Many of the ones interviewed talk of a better life in Britain and not of the horrors of where they're coming from.
Even your poster girl Merkel appears to be backtracking at a rate of knots now.
I love that we are a multicultural society but we have become that through evolution, this is becoming revolution and that seldom ends well.

572 Re: Be more German on Sun Jul 24 2016, 10:44

wanderlust

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@Copper Dragon wrote:With each passing day little Angela is looking more and more of a reckless silly cow.

Is that because racist Islamaphobes will automatically assume that the nutter with the gun in Munich had something to do with "terrorism" when in fact he turned out to be just a nutter obsessed with mass murderers who wanted to make a name for himself.

573 Re: Be more German on Sun Jul 24 2016, 11:03

Guest


Guest
@whatsgoingon wrote:
bwfc1874 wrote:The positives of her actions still outweigh the negatives for me, she's saved thousands of innocent women and children. There were always going to be issues, it would be naive in the extreme to believe anything else.

You celebrating as if your views have been vindicated SK again just puts your parochial attitudes in full view.
All the camps I've seen on the news the vast majority of people in them have been young males, not women and children.
Many of the ones interviewed talk of a better life in Britain and not of the horrors of where they're coming from.
Even your poster girl Merkel appears to be backtracking at a rate of knots now.
I love that we are a multicultural society but we have become that through evolution, this is becoming revolution and that seldom ends well.

Do you think what you see on the news represents the entire picture? Or is it a snapshot for a 10 minute  segment? 

Use real evidence to back up your views, don't just make things up because it fits the narrative you want it to - that goes for just about every topic you post about not just this.

574 Re: Be more German on Sun Jul 24 2016, 11:18

Natasha Whittam

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
bwfc1874 wrote:Do you think what you see on the news represents the entire picture? Or is it a snapshot for a 10 minute  segment? 

Unless you've visited these camps you are in no better position to comment.

575 Re: Be more German on Sun Jul 24 2016, 11:20

Guest


Guest
I haven't made any claims as to the ratio of men to women and children in the camps. 

All I've said is thousands have been saved by countries taking in refugees which is a fact.

576 Re: Be more German on Sun Jul 24 2016, 11:34

wanderlust

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
There's an excellent series on telly ATM that follows immigrants from Africa and elsewhere on their journey to Europe. Mostly filmed on mobile phones, it captures why the are forced to leave, dealing with smugglers (and often getting ripped off) surviving crossing the Med with as many as 70 people hanging on to a 9 ft dinghy, how they are treated on arrival etc.
The reasons they are predominantly young males are that many consider the journey too hazardous to bring the wife and kids, or it's too expensive to pay for the whole family so most set off with a view to getting asylum, finding work and then bringing over the wife and kids in a safe and legal way once they have a job.

577 Re: Be more German on Sun Jul 24 2016, 12:23

scottjames30

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
bwfc1874 wrote:
All I've said is thousands have been saved by countries taking in refugees which is a fact.

And even more thousands of crimes have been committed taking in refugees.

578 Re: Be more German on Sun Jul 24 2016, 12:33

whatsgoingon

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Frank Worthington
Frank Worthington
@wanderlust wrote:There's an excellent series on telly ATM that follows immigrants from Africa and elsewhere on their journey to Europe. Mostly filmed on mobile phones, it captures why the are forced to leave, dealing with smugglers (and often getting ripped off) surviving crossing the Med with as many as 70 people hanging on to a 9 ft dinghy, how they are treated on arrival etc.
The reasons they are predominantly young males are that many consider the journey too hazardous to bring the wife and kids, or it's too expensive to pay for the whole family so most set off with a view to getting asylum, finding work and then bringing over the wife and kids in a safe and legal way once they have a job.
So backs up my point that most of them are young males, 1874 is that busy being a bleeding heart apologist he just makes it up as he goes along.
I have visions of 1874 completely brainwashed by some failed left wing politics lecturer, who believes that anyone with any kind of patriotism must be either racist or xenophobic.
The other point about the series is that it is following the stories of genuine refugees and asylum seekers, but doesn't allow for the fact that these are being joined by thousands of financial migrants.

579 Re: Be more German on Sun Jul 24 2016, 12:35

scottjames30

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
I think 74 is brainwashed, he thinks all races should live together happy ever after.

580 Re: Be more German on Sun Jul 24 2016, 12:38

whatsgoingon

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Frank Worthington
Frank Worthington
@scottjames30 wrote:I think 74 is brainwashed, he thinks all races should live together happy ever after.
Apart from the indigenous British population who don't appear to have any rights in his twisted ideology.

581 Re: Be more German on Sun Jul 24 2016, 13:15

Guest


Guest
Yet again you've invented an opinion to fit the only narrative you can get your head around WGO. You're so keen to play the victim you're having to invent things. 

Where have i called you a racist or xenophobic? And where have I said the 'indigenous population' (looking forward to hearing your definition of that actually) have no rights?

All you've done is characterised people who you think hold the opposite views to yours and apply them to me, rather than reading what I'm saying and disputing it.

582 Re: Be more German on Sun Jul 24 2016, 13:17

Natasha Whittam

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
bwfc1874 wrote:
All you've done is characterised people who you think hold the opposite views to yours and apply them to me, rather than reading what I'm saying and disputing it.

I know you wear beige cardigans.

583 Re: Be more German on Sun Jul 24 2016, 13:18

Guest


Guest
Too warm at the moment, got a cracking one last year though.

584 Re: Be more German on Sun Jul 24 2016, 13:26

whatsgoingon

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Frank Worthington
Frank Worthington
I'm not playing a victim I've nothing to be victimised about, where you on the other hand appear to be the self appointed champion of the "victim", I would love to know what you do personally for the people you champion, how many you provide a roof over their head to or contribute financially to.
In terms of the indiginous population I class that as people who have lived and worked in this country for many years contributing to its upkeep, in the hope that this earns them the education for their children that they've paid for, the healthcare for their families that they've paid for and the public services that they've paid for.
Rather than people trying to get here from all over the world to take advantage of these things for their own means without having ever contributing a penny towards them.

585 Re: Be more German on Sun Jul 24 2016, 13:30

boltonbonce

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
bwfc1874 wrote:Too warm at the moment, got a cracking one last year though.
I've got a corker. Wish it had pockets though.

586 Re: Be more German on Sun Jul 24 2016, 13:34

whatsgoingon

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Frank Worthington
Frank Worthington
@boltonbonce wrote:
bwfc1874 wrote:Too warm at the moment, got a cracking one last year though.
I've got a corker. Wish it had pockets though.
I'm not a beige cardigan wearer but even I have to appreciate the craftsmanship in that cable knitted beauty. Disagree on the pockets though as they would take away from its classic lines

587 Re: Be more German on Sun Jul 24 2016, 13:34

Guest


Guest
Well done for dodging every question you were asked in my last post.

My opinion is that the world's 5th largest economy is my taking its fair share of migrants - from a situation we've been culpable in creating.

And that last paragraph just shows the problem with your views. All refugees are coming here to take advantage of our country and contribute nothing, despite the evidence on migration to the country proving the exact opposite. To me that seems like you've invented evidence (again) to fit your narrative.

588 Re: Be more German on Sun Jul 24 2016, 13:42

whatsgoingon

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Frank Worthington
Frank Worthington
bwfc1874 wrote:Well done for dodging every question you were asked in my last post.

My opinion is that the world's 5th largest economy is my taking its fair share of migrants - from a situation we've been culpable in creating.

And that last paragraph just shows the problem with your views. All refugees are coming here to take advantage of our country and contribute nothing, despite the evidence on migration to the country proving the exact opposite. To me that seems like you've invented evidence (again) to fit your narrative.
You keep accusing people of inventing evidence to suit their narrative yet reply each time with rhetoric to suit yours.
You asked me specifically to give my definition of indiginous population so I gave a clear summary of that, you've ignored that and focussed on a paragraph where I said people have contributed nothing, when they arrive they haven't. 
That is an economic fact.

589 Re: Be more German on Sun Jul 24 2016, 13:48

Guest


Guest
No I keep accusing you, because it seems to be the only way you know.

The fact you think saying 'many years' is a clear definition says a lot. How long is many? Are Irish immigrants of the early 1900's okay with you? Post war Jamaicans? Poles? Or is it only people who can trace their ancestry back to pre Saxon times?

590 Re: Be more German on Sun Jul 24 2016, 17:00

Soul Kitchen

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Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo
bwfc1874 wrote:
You celebrating as if your views have been vindicated SK again just puts your parochial attitudes in full view.
I've lived enough life to learn from history and react accordingly.
I somehow doubt you'll ever learn the same given your clever shite attitude.

591 Re: Be more German on Sun Jul 24 2016, 17:05

Soul Kitchen

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Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo
@Natasha Whittam wrote:
bwfc1874 wrote:
All you've done is characterised people who you think hold the opposite views to yours and apply them to me, rather than reading what I'm saying and disputing it.

I know you wear beige cardigans.
And still tucks his shirt in his underpants like his mummy did for him!

592 Re: Be more German on Sun Jul 24 2016, 17:08

Soul Kitchen

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Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo
bwfc1874 wrote:

My opinion is that the world's 5th largest economy is my taking its fair share of migrants - from a situation we've been culpable in creating.

Not the 5th largest anymore. The Brexiters have sorted that!

593 Re: Be more German on Sun Jul 24 2016, 17:11

Guest


Guest
@Soul Kitchen wrote:
@Natasha Whittam wrote:
bwfc1874 wrote:
All you've done is characterised people who you think hold the opposite views to yours and apply them to me, rather than reading what I'm saying and disputing it.

I know you wear beige cardigans.
And still tucks his shirt in his underpants like his mummy did for him!

A very mature gag SK, well done mate!

594 Re: Be more German on Sun Jul 24 2016, 17:11

Guest


Guest
@Soul Kitchen wrote:
bwfc1874 wrote:

My opinion is that the world's 5th largest economy is my taking its fair share of migrants - from a situation we've been culpable in creating.

Not the 5th largest anymore. The Brexiters have sorted that!

Ye did wonder that as I posted it but couldn't be bothered to check it.

595 Re: Be more German on Sun Jul 24 2016, 17:17

Guest


Guest
bwfc1874 wrote:

Ye did wonder that as I posted it

Why be ye talking like a pirate?

Aaaarggggh!

596 Re: Be more German on Sun Jul 24 2016, 17:20

Guest


Guest
@Soul Kitchen wrote:
bwfc1874 wrote:
You celebrating as if your views have been vindicated SK again just puts your parochial attitudes in full view.
I've lived enough life to learn from history and react accordingly.
I somehow doubt you'll ever learn the same given your clever shite attitude.

All I've done is put my opinion across as I see it, and tried to use evidence to back it up as often as possible. That's not a clever shite attitude.

Instead of resorting to insults as you always do when you run out of points to make, why don't you tell me which part of history you've seen in your vast experience tells you that immigration is a bad thing.

Describing immigrants as undesirables, who make places look messy and are only here to rip off 'indigenous people' is remarkably similar to the rhetoric of the Nazis.

597 Re: Be more German on Sun Jul 24 2016, 18:25

wanderlust

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@whatsgoingon wrote:
In terms of the indiginous population I class that as people who have lived and worked in this country for many years contributing to its upkeep, in the hope that this earns them the education for their children that they've paid for, the healthcare for their families that they've paid for and the public services that they've paid for.
Rather than people trying to get here from all over the world to take advantage of these things for their own means without having ever contributing a penny towards them.

74 points out that Britain is the 5th largest economy in the world and as such we should take our share of immigrants. I agree we should take our share but what is "our fair share"?
It could be argued that we are already one of the most densely populated countries in the world and therefore should take less than all the other major powers. We have 660 odd people per square mile which is more than Pakistan and double the density of France! (who BTW have just passed us to become the 5th largest economy in the world since the referendum)
But if the criteria for being indigenous is "contribution to the economy" then I assume WGO is happy with the 6th and 7th generation Pakistanis who currently make up the majority of the ethnic minority populations in places like Accrington? Or the descendants of the West Indian immigrants who were asked to come here after the war? Or the Poles who came during the War? If so, that opinion differs from the majority of Leave voters who according to post-referendum surveys apparently thought they were voting to repatriate existing indigenous ethnic minorities - regardless of how much tax they'd paid.
Another perspective is that our little island became a world power in the first place via colonialism and treachery, effectively ripping off resources that didn't belong to us, thereby making other countries poorer, creating political turmoil for our own ends and causing the migrant problem to begin with, so now it's time to pay the bill for the party we enjoyed.

598 Re: Be more German on Sun Jul 24 2016, 18:34

Guest


Guest
Some good points there Lust. 

On our fair share, David Miliband makes a good case for 25,000 here. And in my opinion blows apart the claim we're at breaking point and couldn't cope with anymore.

http://m.huffpost.com/uk/entry/9156372.html?edition=uk

Speaking on Channel 4 News, the former foreign secretary claimed there was no evidence that the UK would be “overwhelmed” if it accepted more refugees: “I always say to people, if it was 25,000 [refugees] a year, that would be 40 per parliamentary constituency.

“No one is going to tell me that my former constituency of South Shields would be overwhelmed by 40 [refugees] per year.”

599 Re: Be more German on Sun Jul 24 2016, 19:10

whatsgoingon

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Frank Worthington
Frank Worthington
@wanderlust wrote:But if the criteria for being indigenous is "contribution to the economy" then I assume WGO is happy with the 6th and 7th generation Pakistanis who currently make up the majority of the ethnic minority populations in places like Accrington? Or the descendants of the West Indian immigrants who were asked to come here after the war? Or the Poles who came during the War? If so, that opinion differs from the majority of Leave voters who according to post-referendum surveys apparently thought they were voting to repatriate existing indigenous ethnic minorities - regardless of how much tax they'd paid.
Yes absolutely because we are a multi cultural society and that is a good thing but we are currently taking way above our "fair share" because we offer far more than other countries. One of the things the EU could have done is put together guidelines as to what migrants from member states were entitled to so it was less likely that everyone headed to one or 2 countries because they offered more. I never advocated or believed in Brexit meaning mass repatriation that was never going to happen but to be able to control and be selective about who comes in is vital.
The irony is the thread started about whether we should be more like the Germans, but all the signs are that the Germans are massively regretting their stance and are looking at changing it.

600 Re: Be more German on Sun Jul 24 2016, 19:16

Guest


Guest
Opening the door completely was a bold move, I'm not sure yet it was the best thing to do (maybe some controls would have been better) but she saved countless lives in doing so.

The point of this thread was to say the UK government have not done anywhere even close to enough to help the worst humanitarian crisis in a generation - Cameron committed to 5,000 refugees over 5 years which remains an utter disgrace. And David Milibands interview above shows that.

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