Bolton Wanderers Fans Forum

You are not connected. Please login or register

Bolton Nuts » BWFC » Bolton Wanderers Banter » Is this the real reason Clough had to be sold?

Is this the real reason Clough had to be sold?

View previous topic View next topic Go down  Message [Page 1 of 1]

Sluffy

avatar
Admin
If you take loan out - who pays it back?

Well of course you do, or are supposed too and if you don't it would be your guarantor or the assets you secured the loan on would be ceased and sold off.

I still can't understand how Holdsworth got a loan from BluMarble to his company Sports Shield secured on the assets of BWFC?

I can only imagine he bought the club for £1, THEN took out the loan, then entered sold 50% of the club to Anderson.

How can it be any other way?

But how can the Football League sanction that?  What happens if they let Holdsworth buy the club for a £1, take the loan out - then Anderson says sorry he's changed his mind?  Holdsworth couldn't finance the club on his own so how could they sanction such a possible sequence of events?

Anyway, let us say that is the case until anyone can give us a better answer.

If so then Sports Shield should be making the repayments, right?

But clearly they are not.

The deal we were told when the club was taken over from Davies was that Holdsworth would put £5 million in and Anderson £2.5 million (iirc).

The Football League sanctioned the takeover, so they thought the £7.5 million committed to was sufficient to last until next season.

Since the sale of Clough yesterday, the usual suspects (people linked directly to the ST and LoV) have been making noises that Anderson has made the sale to save himself putting his money into the club and inferred yet again, that he is not to be trusted.

But what if he has been putting money into the club - the wages HAVE been paid every month to date - so someone has been funding them - and the financial ducks are all in place to meet the commitments that Anderson has given to the FL - after all the FL seem to have a good relationship with him - they basically told the ST to fuck off and keep their nose out because they were the professionals and not a bunch of random amateurs who happened to support the same team, and that they already had their eye on the financial aspects of the club and were making sure everything was being complied with.  Furthermore they let us wheel and deal for players in the transfer window yesterday, so they must have been satisfied that Anderson (Holdsworth has already admitted he can't contribute to the ongoing running of the club) could honour any financial conditions they have set him at least until the end of the season.

So why cash in on Clough now - and take comparative to other recent transfers of similar type players in terms of age, experience and potential - a relatively modest sum for him?

Seems to me the most obvious explanation is to use it in someway to get out of this unfathomable deal Holdsworth/Sports Shield as entered into with BluMarble and which is not being paid and is secured on BWFC assets.

Seems a reasonable thing to do, doesn't it?

If so I don't get this 'well without Holdsworth stepping in there would be no club'.  Christ anyone could have bought the club for a £1 and take out a £5 million loan secured on the clubs assets AND not pay any loan repayments back!!!

I don't 'get' why Holdsworth (with no money remember) wanted to buy the club so badly.  I don't 'get' how he managed to get a loan secured to Sports Shield secured on BWFC assets that he only half owned, without Andersons agreement of how SS would settle the debt.  And I don't 'get' how Holdsworth is seen as the 'goodie' in all of this and Anderson the 'baddie' by the usual suspects!?

All in all the Holdsworth involvement in all of this seems to have been a car crash with the only redeeming bit of it being the introduction of Anderson to the club!

What do the events seem like to you?

Norpig

avatar
John McGinlay
John McGinlay
i have to admit most of the financial stuff goes over my head but i presume with the Macron and Heathcote issues still around money is still extremely tight and we probably had little choice other than to sell Clough.

It looks like KA is now financing the club himself as Deano is skint. Deano had other backers didn't he, that pulled out? Perhaps they had more financial backing and thats why they got the loan? My guess would be that the Hotel would have been the asset put up if things went wrong.

I don't see KA as a baddie, he is a businessman but it's about time we had one running the club as the last lot made such a mess of it. Deano had the best intentions but now it's clear he couldn't back up him wanting to save the club and had to go cap in hand to KA.

I think KA is looking to sell the club long term once it's been stabilised and obviously getting promotion would help that but i have no issue with him really. He is much more open about what is going on and has been like a breath of fresh air compared to Uncle Eddie and Gartsides say nothing approach.

If KA wasn't here now would we still have a club left to support?

Bollotom2014

avatar
Tony Kelly
Tony Kelly
It does seem a little, "Off" that Deano bought it while broke and got BlueMarble to give him some millions. Now Heathcote jumps up with a £200,000 bill, despite not paying his own responsibilities and Macron, the only sponsor WE have to pay. One could imagine that someone saw the writing on the wall and put a few dodgy contracts in place to make the club's position almost untenable. It's as if there was/is someone in the background pulling strings they probably have no right pulling. I wonder were Ed is these days.

Sluffy

avatar
Admin
Norpig wrote:If KA wasn't here now would we still have a club left to support?

Yes, we would.

A great many people make the false assumption that without the last second Holdsworth deal the club would have been wound up but Davies had already made provision for filing for Administration and putting aside the debt owing to Davies the club had more assets than liabilities (it owned a stadium, an hotel, players like Clough, etc, etc).

Administration basically aims to restructure the club to make it a going concern and the taxman isn't in the business of closing viable businesses because it wants them to ultimately succeed because it can get tax from them.

We would have taken a points penalty for going into Admin and got relegated but there would have been people out there who would have been very interested in what remained of the club - free of debt as it would have been by now (and not bogged down with it thanks to the BluMarble deal as it still is) - and willing to take it on.

Without looking it up again I think it was something like thirty years ago that a league club (Maidstone iirc) went bust - so it was inconceivable (despite what many people want to believe) that the club would have disappeared without Holdsworth stepping in.

I simply can't understand why Holdsworth (who hadn't a pot to piss in) hung on so long to buy the club. If anything his BluMarble deal that supposedly saved the club seems at this stage to have made matters even worse for everyone.

At least Administration would have cleared the decks and would have allowed the eventual new owner (excluding the ST who are not permitted to do so) to pump money into the club again and take us forward.

wanderlust

avatar
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
When we were going down the pan last year I expected that all the best assets would be sold anyway and was surprised Clough didn't go at the same time as Holding.
Achieving what we have this season from that position is a pleasant surprise TBH.
Sluffy - you may be right in your speculation and to me it does look like the sale of Clough was more about propping up cashflow for things other than the team. I'm sure the truth will come out in the fullness of time but for now I'm happy that we still exist and that KA is wheeling and dealing to keep us afloat. Whether or not the squad is left with enough to get promotion - which would help the financial position no end - we'll have to wait and see.

Kane57

avatar
Nicolas Anelka
Nicolas Anelka
Sluffy your whole post is so wide of the mark it's unbelievable.

The accounts are imminent - if you want a proper explanation, rather than your bizarre interpretation, then you know where to find me.

Sluffy

avatar
Admin
Kane57 wrote:Sluffy your whole post is so wide of the mark it's unbelievable.

The accounts are imminent - if you want a proper explanation, rather than your bizarre interpretation, then you know where to find me.

Really?

From Ken Anderson's update today -

The biggest challenge of all will be reaching a solution with Blu Marble and Sports Shield which could, in my opinion, save us several millions of pounds, but this is likely to go to litigation and unfortunately, may take several years to finalise. 

For the record, I would also like to mention that I took no part in the original discussions with Blu Marble. Furthermore, the club does not have an agreement with Blu Marble; it has an agreement with Sports Shield and I am currently disputing the validity of this.

Obviously, like everyone else,  I was extremely disappointed to see Zach leave, but Nottingham Forest were very persistent in their pursuit of him and after rejecting their initial approaches, the ever increasing sums of money being offered to both Zach and the club, I had to weigh up the financial benefits for the club of selling him and regrettably, following Dean’s refusal last week to contribute any funds to financially support the club, alongside me, I was left with no alternative but to try and reach the best deal possible with Forest. 

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]


Maybe I was a bit closer to the mark than you thought I was?



gloswhite

avatar
Youri Djorkaeff
Youri Djorkaeff
Kane 57, you have the floor, why don'y you just tell us yourself ?

Kane57

avatar
Nicolas Anelka
Nicolas Anelka
Sluffy wrote:
Kane57 wrote:Sluffy your whole post is so wide of the mark it's unbelievable.

The accounts are imminent - if you want a proper explanation, rather than your bizarre interpretation, then you know where to find me.

Really?

From Ken Anderson's update today -

The biggest challenge of all will be reaching a solution with Blu Marble and Sports Shield which could, in my opinion, save us several millions of pounds, but this is likely to go to litigation and unfortunately, may take several years to finalise. 

For the record, I would also like to mention that I took no part in the original discussions with Blu Marble. Furthermore, the club does not have an agreement with Blu Marble; it has an agreement with Sports Shield and I am currently disputing the validity of this.

Obviously, like everyone else,  I was extremely disappointed to see Zach leave, but Nottingham Forest were very persistent in their pursuit of him and after rejecting their initial approaches, the ever increasing sums of money being offered to both Zach and the club, I had to weigh up the financial benefits for the club of selling him and regrettably, following Dean’s refusal last week to contribute any funds to financially support the club, alongside me, I was left with no alternative but to try and reach the best deal possible with Forest. 

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]


Maybe I was a bit closer to the mark than you thought I was?




Nope, riggins44

Bread2.0

avatar
Andy Walker
Andy Walker
Sluffy's not Riggins.

Fact!

At least I hope not because that would make my life very complicated.......

Sluffy

avatar
Admin
Correct - I'm not Riggins44.

For your information I don't even have an account on the Bolton News.


And if you are so knowledgeable about the goings on inside the club as you make out you are then why don't you tell us?

You've even got your own blog to do it on.

Or is it all just bluster with you?





Kane57

avatar
Nicolas Anelka
Nicolas Anelka
Apologies, I posted without finishing what I was writing.

Nope, riggins44 on the BEN site pushes similar opinions, and I think they're wide of the mark too.

Sluffy

avatar
Admin
Kane57 wrote:Apologies, I posted without finishing what I was writing.

Nope, riggins44 on the BEN site pushes similar opinions, and I think they're wide of the mark too.

Why would I care what someone else on BEN posts?

They might simply be reading what I posted here and agreeing with me over there?

It certainly isn't the other way around.

I think for myself and credit others if I ever use someone else's views here on Nuts.

And just in case you missed it - which you haven't! -

Sluffy wrote:And if you are so knowledgeable about the goings on inside the club as you make out you are then why don't you tell us?

You've even got your own blog to do it on.

Or is it all just bluster with you?

Kane57

avatar
Nicolas Anelka
Nicolas Anelka
Yeah I'll use that outlet, thanks

Sluffy

avatar
Admin
Kane57 wrote:Yeah I'll use that outlet, thanks

Fantastic!

We will all wait for you to run the real reason why Clough was sold shortly then - after all it is now over a week ago he was!

Should be a good story.

Or is it all just bluster again?

Sluffy

avatar
Admin
Kane57 wrote:Sluffy your whole post is so wide of the mark it's unbelievable.

The accounts are imminent - if you want a proper explanation, rather than your bizarre interpretation, then you know where to find me.

Still think my explanation was 'bizarre' and I'm getting nuttier in my old age?

Well the last bit might be right but I think I was pretty close to what came out today with the accounts and Anderson's statement.

Certainly a great deal closer than anything you ever came out with - considering you implied you knew the inside story and it wasn't anything like as 'bizarre' as mine!

Very Happy

Sluffy wrote:Since the sale of Clough yesterday, the usual suspects (people linked directly to the ST and LoV) have been making noises that Anderson has made the sale to save himself putting his money into the club and inferred yet again, that he is not to be trusted.

But what if he has been putting money into the club - the wages HAVE been paid every month to date - so someone has been funding them - and the financial ducks are all in place to meet the commitments that Anderson has given to the FL - after all the FL seem to have a good relationship with him - they basically told the ST to fuck off and keep their nose out because they were the professionals and not a bunch of random amateurs who happened to support the same team, and that they already had their eye on the financial aspects of the club and were making sure everything was being complied with.  Furthermore they let us wheel and deal for players in the transfer window yesterday, so they must have been satisfied that Anderson (Holdsworth has already admitted he can't contribute to the ongoing running of the club) could honour any financial conditions they have set him at least until the end of the season.

So why cash in on Clough now - and take comparative to other recent transfers of similar type players in terms of age, experience and potential - a relatively modest sum for him?

Seems to me the most obvious explanation is to use it in someway to get out of this unfathomable deal Holdsworth/Sports Shield as entered into with BluMarble and which is not being paid and is secured on BWFC assets.

Seems a reasonable thing to do, doesn't it?

If so I don't get this 'well without Holdsworth stepping in there would be no club'.  Christ anyone could have bought the club for a £1 and take out a £5 million loan secured on the clubs assets AND not pay any loan repayments back!!!

I don't 'get' why Holdsworth (with no money remember) wanted to buy the club so badly.  I don't 'get' how he managed to get a loan secured to Sports Shield secured on BWFC assets that he only half owned, without Andersons agreement of how SS would settle the debt.  And I don't 'get' how Holdsworth is seen as the 'goodie' in all of this and Anderson the 'baddie' by the usual suspects!?

All in all the Holdsworth involvement in all of this seems to have been a car crash with the only redeeming bit of it being the introduction of Anderson to the club!

What do the events seem like to you?


finlaymcdanger

avatar
Andy Walker
Andy Walker
Bread2.0 wrote:Sluffy's not Riggins.

Fact!

At least I hope not because that would make my life very complicated.......

Very Happy

View previous topic View next topic Back to top  Message [Page 1 of 1]

Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum