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Brexit negotiations

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31 Re: Brexit negotiations on Tue Jul 25 2017, 19:04

gloswhite

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Youri Djorkaeff
Youri Djorkaeff
Some truth in that. Trying to remain optimistic, I would compare the current shenanigans with the reshaping and changing of direction of a football team. 
Its realised that things may be ok at the time, but the future is not so rosy. With this in mind, change is called for. It all goes to cock in the beginning, but slowly, (very bloody slowly), plans, ideas, and processes are utilised, and a clearer future is mapped. Unfortunately we have a team with a limited skill set, but they have to go forward, whatever the predictions. The plan could still crash and burn, with the result nowhere what was hoped for, however, getting the stakeholders/fans on board, and in a positive manner may help. it'll be a long slog, but our future is in our own hands. (lets hope we don't get rid of any assets too soon).

32 Re: Brexit negotiations on Tue Jul 25 2017, 19:30

wanderlust

avatar
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
gloswhite wrote:Some truth in that. Trying to remain optimistic, I would compare the current shenanigans with the reshaping and changing of direction of a football team. 
Its realised that things may be ok at the time, but the future is not so rosy. With this in mind, change is called for. It all goes to cock in the beginning, but slowly, (very bloody slowly), plans, ideas, and processes are utilised, and a clearer future is mapped. Unfortunately we have a team with a limited skill set, but they have to go forward, whatever the predictions. The plan could still crash and burn, with the result nowhere what was hoped for, however, getting the stakeholders/fans on board, and in a positive manner may help. it'll be a long slog, but our future is in our own hands. (lets hope we don't get rid of any assets too soon).
I think the point of Brexit negotiations is that our future is NOT in our own hands for the first time since the Norman invasion. Our future will be determined by the outcome of the negotiations with multiple parties who will put their own interests first.

When we joined the EU we controlled our own destiny because we could always walk away if we didn't like the deal on offer.
But now May has made it clear that there's no turning back - so now we can't walk away, we have to get a deal and the people we are negotiating with know it.

Brexit is a loss of control, not gaining control.

33 Re: Brexit negotiations on Tue Jul 25 2017, 19:32

Natasha Whittam

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
In 20 years we will laugh at your posts (even more than we do now).

This isn't a short term thing, in a couple of decades things will look very different. Greatness doesn't come easily or quickly.

34 Re: Brexit negotiations on Tue Jul 25 2017, 19:53

wanderlust

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Natasha Whittam wrote:Greatness doesn't come easily or quickly.
No but it only takes a concerted media campaign, an incompetent government and a referendum to lose it.

35 Re: Brexit negotiations on Tue Jul 25 2017, 20:11

gloswhite

avatar
Youri Djorkaeff
Youri Djorkaeff
And a country half full of pessimists, who are determined that everything will go wrong, and, for whatever reason, refuse to consider any positive way forward.

36 Re: Brexit negotiations on Tue Jul 25 2017, 20:25

karlypants

avatar
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
gloswhite wrote:And a country half full of pessimists, who are determined that everything will go wrong, and, for whatever reason, refuse to consider any positive way forward.
:clap:

37 Re: Brexit negotiations on Tue Jul 25 2017, 20:39

Sluffy

avatar
Admin
karlypants wrote:
gloswhite wrote:And a country half full of pessimists, who are determined that everything will go wrong, and, for whatever reason, refuse to consider any positive way forward.
:clap:

+1

38 Re: Brexit negotiations on Tue Jul 25 2017, 20:56

Soul Kitchen

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Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo
gloswhite wrote:And a country half full of pessimists, who are determined that everything will go wrong, and, for whatever reason, refuse to consider any positive way forward.
A pessimist is never disappointed, but Brexit fans could be! Laughing

39 Re: Brexit negotiations on Tue Jul 25 2017, 22:00

xmiles

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Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo
gloswhite wrote:And a country half full of pessimists, who are determined that everything will go wrong, and, for whatever reason, refuse to consider any positive way forward.

You are confusing pessimism with realism.

There is no way we are going to be better off out of the EU than in it.

40 Re: Brexit negotiations on Tue Jul 25 2017, 22:25

Natasha Whittam

avatar
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
xmiles wrote:There is no way we are going to be better off out of the EU than in it.

Meet me here in 20 years and we'll see who was right.

41 Re: Brexit negotiations on Tue Jul 25 2017, 22:49

gloswhite

avatar
Youri Djorkaeff
Youri Djorkaeff
xmiles wrote:
gloswhite wrote:And a country half full of pessimists, who are determined that everything will go wrong, and, for whatever reason, refuse to consider any positive way forward.

You are confusing pessimism with realism.

There is no way we are going to be better off out of the EU than in it.
Whilst you have your head down, you will only see what is immediately in front of your your toes. Look up, and there is no limit to what you can see.

42 Re: Brexit negotiations on Wed Jul 26 2017, 07:38

xmiles

avatar
Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo
gloswhite wrote:
xmiles wrote:
gloswhite wrote:And a country half full of pessimists, who are determined that everything will go wrong, and, for whatever reason, refuse to consider any positive way forward.

You are confusing pessimism with realism.

There is no way we are going to be better off out of the EU than in it.
Whilst you have your head down, you will only see what is immediately in front of your your toes. Look up, and there is no limit to what you can see.

Like the flying pigs Boris can see.

43 Re: Brexit negotiations on Wed Jul 26 2017, 07:40

xmiles

avatar
Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo
Natasha Whittam wrote:
xmiles wrote:There is no way we are going to be better off out of the EU than in it.

Meet me here in 20 years and we'll see who was right.

Happy to oblige although I see you expect it to take 20 years to recover from brexit.

44 Re: Brexit negotiations on Wed Jul 26 2017, 09:26

Soul Kitchen

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Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo
Natasha Whittam wrote:
xmiles wrote:There is no way we are going to be better off out of the EU than in it.

Meet me here in 20 years and we'll see who was right.
You'll be dead then old man! Very Happy

45 Re: Brexit negotiations on Wed Jul 26 2017, 10:29

wanderlust

avatar
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Sluffy wrote:
karlypants wrote:
gloswhite wrote:And a country half full of pessimists, who are determined that everything will go wrong, and, for whatever reason, refuse to consider any positive way forward.
:clap:

+1
Is that why they voted to leave the EU? Just because the Daily Mail told them to be pessimistic about Europe?

If they had a more positive attitude they would have done exactly what you say they should have - considered the positive options to stay in and contribute towards the EU's success for the continued growth and benefit of Britain from the inside.

But I guess that years' of negativity from global media organisations with an agenda made them too pessimistic to consider any positive way forward so they just became quitters.

46 Re: Brexit negotiations on Wed Jul 26 2017, 11:38

bwfc71

avatar
Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo
xmiles wrote:
gloswhite wrote:And a country half full of pessimists, who are determined that everything will go wrong, and, for whatever reason, refuse to consider any positive way forward.

You are confusing pessimism with realism.

There is no way we are going to be better off out of the EU than in it.

The repercussions have already started......

- Pound is very weak
- Slowest growth not only of the EU27 but also of the G20
- Current Government already deciding the money should be spent in London and South East and forget about the rest of the country (e.g. rail electrification vs Crossrail2, and no funding to help the people of Newferry, Merseyside since the gas explosion over 2 months ago)
- Current Government telling farmers not to expect grants, like they did under EU, and that to gain grants farmers have to do far much more than now - many of which are at breaking point
- NHS not being able to cover many posts and the number of vacant posts is up by 8000 from last year
- raw materials up in price, due to weak pound, which means price of goods are increasing whilst wages are decreasing
- Number of food-banks and children with the poverty line are up by staggering amounts in the last 12 months
- Areas like Blackpool Devon and Cornwall and North East being told that their current subsidies from EU will stop and that they will only get between 8% and 10% of what they get now from Westminster - therefore regeneration of these areas will falter, stop or even put these areas into backward movements
-Federation of Small Businesses confirming that the companies within their remit are not investing due to all of the above and uncertainty and actually looking to cutting costs which does mean job losses

so far BREXIT is sending the UK into a downward spiral and it will definitely take more than 20 years to recover, will be lucky if the UK recovers after 50 years, if it recovers at all.

UK is now seen as the sick man of Europe, again, just as it was in the late 1960's before we had to join the EEC/EU otherwise the UK would have become bankrupt and in same situation as what Greece is now - in those days even the World bank and IMF had stopped lending to the UK as it could not repay back.

47 Re: Brexit negotiations on Wed Jul 26 2017, 12:04

Reebok Trotter

avatar
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
bwfc71 wrote:
xmiles wrote:
gloswhite wrote:And a country half full of pessimists, who are determined that everything will go wrong, and, for whatever reason, refuse to consider any positive way forward.

You are confusing pessimism with realism.

There is no way we are going to be better off out of the EU than in it.

The repercussions have already started......

- Pound is very weak
- Slowest growth not only of the EU27 but also of the G20
- Current Government already deciding the money should be spent in London and South East and forget about the rest of the country (e.g. rail electrification vs Crossrail2, and no funding to help the people of Newferry, Merseyside since the gas explosion over 2 months ago)
- Current Government telling farmers not to expect grants, like they did under EU, and that to gain grants farmers have to do far much more than now - many of which are at breaking point
- NHS not being able to cover many posts and the number of vacant posts is up by 8000 from last year
- raw materials up in price, due to weak pound, which means price of goods are increasing whilst wages are decreasing
- Number of food-banks and children with the poverty line are up by staggering amounts in the last 12 months
- Areas like Blackpool Devon and Cornwall and North East being told that their current subsidies from EU will stop and that they will only get between 8% and 10% of what they get now from Westminster - therefore regeneration of these areas will falter, stop or even put these areas into backward movements
-Federation of Small Businesses confirming that the companies within their remit are not investing due to all of the above and uncertainty and actually looking to cutting costs which does mean job losses

so far BREXIT is sending the UK into a downward spiral and it will definitely take more than 20 years to recover, will be lucky if the UK recovers after 50 years, if it recovers at all.

UK is now seen as the sick man of Europe, again, just as it was in the late 1960's before we had to join the EEC/EU otherwise the UK would have become bankrupt and in same situation as what Greece is now - in those days even the World bank and IMF had stopped lending to the UK as it could not repay back.

The Germans were heavily penalised with austerity measures by the European Allies after the 2nd world war in 1945 and they are now the richest economy in Europe and control the purse strings of the European banking system. I doubt anyone would have seen that coming back in 1945!

48 Re: Brexit negotiations on Wed Jul 26 2017, 12:56

xmiles

avatar
Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo
After 1945 the Germans received massive financial aid from America (the Marshall Plan).

After brexit we will be receiving fuck all from America.

49 Re: Brexit negotiations on Wed Jul 26 2017, 13:07

Soul Kitchen

avatar
Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo
xmiles wrote:After 1945 the Germans received massive financial aid from America (the Marshall Plan).

After brexit we will be receiving fuck all from America.

Wrong!
We'll be receiving GM food and chicken in chlorine gravy.
Then the NHS will be supported at great cost by yank firms.
So fucked should be the word.

50 Re: Brexit negotiations on Wed Jul 26 2017, 15:37

bwfc71

avatar
Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo
Reebok Trotter wrote:
bwfc71 wrote:
xmiles wrote:
gloswhite wrote:And a country half full of pessimists, who are determined that everything will go wrong, and, for whatever reason, refuse to consider any positive way forward.

You are confusing pessimism with realism.

There is no way we are going to be better off out of the EU than in it.

The repercussions have already started......

- Pound is very weak
- Slowest growth not only of the EU27 but also of the G20
- Current Government already deciding the money should be spent in London and South East and forget about the rest of the country (e.g. rail electrification vs Crossrail2, and no funding to help the people of Newferry, Merseyside since the gas explosion over 2 months ago)
- Current Government telling farmers not to expect grants, like they did under EU, and that to gain grants farmers have to do far much more than now - many of which are at breaking point
- NHS not being able to cover many posts and the number of vacant posts is up by 8000 from last year
- raw materials up in price, due to weak pound, which means price of goods are increasing whilst wages are decreasing
- Number of food-banks and children with the poverty line are up by staggering amounts in the last 12 months
- Areas like Blackpool Devon and Cornwall and North East being told that their current subsidies from EU will stop and that they will only get between 8% and 10% of what they get now from Westminster - therefore regeneration of these areas will falter, stop or even put these areas into backward movements
-Federation of Small Businesses confirming that the companies within their remit are not investing due to all of the above and uncertainty and actually looking to cutting costs which does mean job losses

so far BREXIT is sending the UK into a downward spiral and it will definitely take more than 20 years to recover, will be lucky if the UK recovers after 50 years, if it recovers at all.

UK is now seen as the sick man of Europe, again, just as it was in the late 1960's before we had to join the EEC/EU otherwise the UK would have become bankrupt and in same situation as what Greece is now - in those days even the World bank and IMF had stopped lending to the UK as it could not repay back.

The Germans were heavily penalised with austerity measures by the European Allies after the 2nd world war in 1945 and they are now the richest economy in Europe and control the purse strings of the European banking system. I doubt anyone would have seen that coming back in 1945!

European Banking System is not controlled by the Germans.

It maybe based in Frankfurt, but that is because Margaret Thatcher, and John Major, REFUSED to have it based in London!  It is completely independent of any other Banking system and it is down to the 28 Central Bank Governors, including our own Mark Carney, to make the Banking decisions, for the 28 countries within the EU.   But that is only aa basis, as each country still have their own Central Bank who them make their own independent decisions, which I had to work under when I worked in The Netherlands.

Germany became as strong, financially, as they did, as they protected their businesses and have very strong internal laws, which many countries have but UK does not.   We effectively opened up our market to the outside world and businesses got sold to them thus making the respective countries even richer.  Thanks to lack of UK control, Germany made money from us, both before and after reunification of Germany and, in turn, helped to increase the financial clout.

Basically we only have ourselves to blame when it comes to lack of financial clout.  Plus we are opening ourselves up even more, after we leave the EU, therefore our clout across the world will become even weaker, and possibly drop out of the G8 - we are currently the 8th richest country in the world - falling 3 places with 18 months and countries on the rise ready to take our place.

51 Re: Brexit negotiations on Wed Jul 26 2017, 15:41

Sluffy

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Admin

52 Re: Brexit negotiations on Wed Jul 26 2017, 16:04

bwfc71

avatar
Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo
I'd rather not live on the laurels of "what will be, will be" as seen already the UK is floundering.  I do not want the country to end up worse than at present, but it definitely heading that way with the Brexit.  Does anyone really want to be worse off than what they are now?

Also any trade deal, already being talked about, means it will be worse for us.  Australia, China and India will only do a deal if we reduce our immigration rules for them, whilst the US want their own mini-TTIP deal with UK - considering the TTIP deal has been well and truly blown out of the water by the EU!  Meaning US companies will control even more of our lives from birth to death - especially with the health system!

That old proverb is definitely true in that you do not realise what you will miss until you miss it and in this case the grass is definitely not greener on the other side.

PS  - thinking how many more proverbs/catchphrases I can get into this thread!

53 Re: Brexit negotiations on Wed Jul 26 2017, 16:26

xmiles

avatar
Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo
Something brexit fans still won't deal with is the complete absence of any evidence of how things will be better after brexit contrasted with the continuing evidence of how things are very definitely going to be worse.

54 Re: Brexit negotiations on Wed Jul 26 2017, 16:59

Natasha Whittam

avatar
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Life is pretty good. I enjoy my life. I have problems like everyone else, but overall I'm happy with my lot.

Brexit doesn't dominate my life. It might impact me in a negative way at some point, but it won't kill me and it won't stop the flow of Twirls and Pepsi.

Children are born with terrible diseases, people get cancer, and people get run over by drunk drivers. Brexit is a minor irritant compared with a lot of the shit life throws at us. So quit fucking moaning about something you have no control over. If Brexit is the worst thing that ever happens to you then consider yourself very lucky.

Moaning wankers.

55 Re: Brexit negotiations on Wed Jul 26 2017, 17:17

xmiles

avatar
Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo
Brexit probably won't directly affect me very much. However I have children and grandchildren and I think it will affect them a lot more.

I also think a lot of people who voted for brexit are in for a nasty shock when they see what they have actually voted for. Obvious examples include people living in the poorer areas of the country like the north, the southwest and Wales who will see much less government subsidy once we leave the EU. At the moment Cornwall and West Wales receive the same level of subsidy per person as Romania and Bulgaria. The details are in this article in the Telegraph (which campaigned for brexit):

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjUisHNq6fVAhVKblAKHVuwCfQQFggrMAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.telegraph.co.uk%2Fnews%2F2016%2F06%2F01%2Fmapped-where-in-the-uk-receives-most-eu-funding-and-how-does-thi%2F&usg=AFQjCNEZ0xXzeoj6UMuAtdtWAsXdXKx4IQ

56 Re: Brexit negotiations on Wed Jul 26 2017, 17:53

wanderlust

avatar
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Natasha Whittam wrote:Life is pretty good. I enjoy my life. I have problems like everyone else, but overall I'm happy with my lot.

Brexit doesn't dominate my life. It might impact me in a negative way at some point, but it won't kill me and it won't stop the flow of Twirls and Pepsi.
Haven't Twirls shrunk yet? 
Lots of chat yesterday about "shrinkflation" where food manufacturers faced with massive increases in the cost of ingredients since the referendum and supermarkets unwilling to raise prices have resorted to providing a smaller version of the same product at the same price.
Here are ten chocolate products already hit by shrinkflation...

It's only a matter of time before Twirls start to disappear....

57 Re: Brexit negotiations on Wed Jul 26 2017, 17:54

Natasha Whittam

avatar
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
I'll just eat two instead of one, it's not rocket science.

58 Re: Brexit negotiations on Thu Jul 27 2017, 01:23

Sluffy

avatar
Admin
bwfc71 wrote:I'd rather not live on the laurels of "what will be, will be" as seen already the UK is floundering.  I do not want the country to end up worse than at present, but it definitely heading that way with the Brexit.  Does anyone really want to be worse off than what they are now?

Words are cheap Chris.

What exactly are you doing to stop Brexit?

Watch this short video (4 min 30 secs) from the BBC entitled Reality Check - Is Brexit Inevitable in respect of the Law, Politics and Practicalities of this matter.

When you, Wanderlust or anybody else can actually say they've DONE SOMETHING to help stop Brexit then I'll listen and be happy that you have.  Until then you can REMOAN until your hearts content but it won't make a jot of difference.

Watch what IS going to happen unless you find a way of stopping it - which of course you won't if all you do is just keep on moaning about it on here.

PS - best of luck with your new career.

Video here -

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politics-uk-leaves-the-eu-40676514/reality-check-is-brexit-inevitable

59 Re: Brexit negotiations on Thu Jul 27 2017, 08:46

xmiles

avatar
Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo
If you removed all the moaning from this site you would lose about 90% of the content and 99.9% of Nat's comments.

60 Re: Brexit negotiations on Thu Jul 27 2017, 10:39

Sluffy

avatar
Admin
I'm not against moaning, we all do it but I don't really see much point about continually moaning over something that started over a year ago and which non of us as individuals can stop.

I'm no difference than anybody else, I don't want to be worse off, don't want to see my family suffer, want my daughter to have a wonderful future, etc and Brexit may well effect all that - but moaning about it won't change anything.

Do something if you must, start a new party - Macron did and within a year he was swept to power in France.

But continual moaning about it on here just make people look very bitter.

Life is far too short for that.

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