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Brexit negotiations

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901 Re: Brexit negotiations on Wed Jul 18 2018, 18:05

T.R.O.Y


Andy Walker
Andy Walker
Why would Boris make such a good leader then Karly?

902 Re: Brexit negotiations on Wed Jul 18 2018, 21:39

wessy

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Andy Walker
Andy Walker
We really must be in a mess when reasonably sane people? are quoting Boris as the answer to our problems.

903 Re: Brexit negotiations on Wed Jul 18 2018, 21:43

Boggersbelief

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@T.R.O.Y wrote:Unless karly was there.

I don’t like bullies

904 Re: Brexit negotiations on Wed Jul 18 2018, 22:22

T.R.O.Y


Andy Walker
Andy Walker
Stop stalking me then Dan lad.

905 Re: Brexit negotiations on Thu Jul 19 2018, 10:20

wanderlust

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@xmiles wrote:And we now have the spectacle of Labour brexit rebels keeping May in power. :facepalm:

They were voting about whether or not the UK should have the option of a Customs Union should no deal be agreed which would facilitate passage of goods and supplies between the UK and the EU - rather than barriers, taxes and border checks - something that the import/export business community is desperate for.

I reckon that the biggest irony (apart from Labour becoming the party that supports business) was the DUP voting unanimously to prevent a Customs Union when Northern Ireland voted 56% to 44% in favour of remain and NO barrier with the South.

I know that the Tories bought the DUP with taxpayer's money, but in Northern Ireland this issue was central and the biggest concern for NI voters, yet they've stuffed them. I guess the third irony was that us taxpayers funded the DUP to f*** over their own supporters?

906 Re: Brexit negotiations on Thu Jul 19 2018, 15:47

xmiles

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Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo

907 Re: Brexit negotiations on Thu Jul 19 2018, 16:09

wanderlust

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Yeah - mentioned it in 889 - surprised the media hadn't run with it before as it breaks with years of parliamentary code, but nowt will be done just as nothing will be done about the cheating in the EU referendum.

908 Re: Brexit negotiations on Thu Jul 19 2018, 17:28

Chairmanda

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Andy Walker
Andy Walker
It's even worse than previously reported...it wasn't some mistake, but a plan to derail the democratic process.

909 Re: Brexit negotiations on Sat Jul 21 2018, 12:59

wanderlust

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@Chairmanda wrote:It's even worse than previously reported...it wasn't some mistake, but a plan to derail the democratic process.
Once upon a time there would have been a public outcry leading to sackings and/or resignations but democracy is held cheap these days and cheating the voters has become so commonplace that it's almost as if we accept it as normal.

The more we let them get away with it, the more it will happen.

910 Re: Brexit negotiations on Sat Jul 21 2018, 13:57

xmiles

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Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo
This seems so very applicable to Trump and brexit supporters.

“The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the convinced Communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction (i.e., the reality of experience) and the distinction between true and false (i.e., the standards of thought) no longer exist.”
― Hannah Arendt, The Origins of Totalitarianism

911 Re: Brexit negotiations on Sun Jul 22 2018, 10:51

gloswhite

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Jay Jay Okocha
Jay Jay Okocha
@Chairmanda wrote:It's even worse than previously reported...it wasn't some mistake, but a plan to derail the democratic process.
I agree Amanda, its really not on. However, is it actually a written down and 'in the rules', democratic process, i.e. can anyone actually be disciplined for it, other than their own party ? 
I believe some will hit the fan, but very little of it will stick, unfortunately.

912 Re: Brexit negotiations on Tue Jul 24 2018, 16:21

wanderlust

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Brexit postponed!

May announces that the UK will remain under EU law for at least an additional 19 months beyond the date she had promised i.e. until the end of 2020.

It is still unclear whether or not the UK will continue to be represented in Brussels throughout the extended period.

913 Re: Brexit negotiations on Thu Jul 26 2018, 18:40

xmiles

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Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo
Interesting selection of lies spread by convicted brexit campaign cheats:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-44966969

914 Re: Brexit negotiations on Thu Aug 30 2018, 11:03

xmiles

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Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo
Time to wind up Nat again by posting some facts about brexit:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-45351288

915 Re: Brexit negotiations on Thu Aug 30 2018, 11:08

Natasha Whittam

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Why would that wind me up? I always buy Sony.

916 Re: Brexit negotiations on Thu Aug 30 2018, 11:44

Norpig

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Noticed nobhead Nigel's first big leave means leave rally is being held in Bolton  Rolling Eyes

https://twitter.com/Nigel_Farage/status/1034496541065719808

917 Re: Brexit negotiations on Thu Aug 30 2018, 11:53

karlypants

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@Norpig wrote:Noticed nobhead Nigel's first big leave means leave rally is being held in Bolton  Rolling Eyes

https://twitter.com/Nigel_Farage/status/1034496541065719808

Cheers Norpig have just added the date in my diary! Smile

918 Re: Brexit negotiations on Thu Aug 30 2018, 12:00

Natasha Whittam

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
I'm meeting xmiles there.

919 Re: Brexit negotiations on Thu Aug 30 2018, 19:40

wanderlust

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@Norpig wrote:Noticed nobhead Nigel's first big leave means leave rally is being held in Bolton  Rolling Eyes

https://twitter.com/Nigel_Farage/status/1034496541065719808
Remind me - what does the second "leave" mean again?

920 Re: Brexit negotiations on Thu Aug 30 2018, 22:27

luckyPeterpiper

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Frank Worthington
Frank Worthington
I hate to say this but Panasonic will not be the last, not even close. I fully expect Nissan and Ford to follow suit and I wouldn't be surprised if a great many more manufacturing and service companies did the same. Brexit is going to be an unmitigated disaster for this country that our children and grandchildren will spend decades paying the price for long after the idiots who actually voted for it including my dad are dead and gone.

Frankly the politics (far too dignified a term for what it really is) of bigotry and hate have won and they won in the US too which is why they have the worst President in the entire history of their nation sitting in the White House. It's a bad time all over for anything that smacks of tolerance and reason and I only hope people wake up to that fact soon, very soon or it'll be too late.

921 Re: Brexit negotiations on Thu Aug 30 2018, 22:52

xmiles

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Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo
@luckyPeterpiper wrote:I hate to say this but Panasonic will not be the last, not even close. I fully expect Nissan and Ford to follow suit and I wouldn't be surprised if a great many more manufacturing and service companies did the same. Brexit is going to be an unmitigated disaster for this country that our children and grandchildren will spend decades paying the price for long after the idiots who actually voted for it including my dad are dead and gone.

Frankly the politics (far too dignified a term for what it really is) of bigotry and hate have won and they won in the US too which is why they have the worst President in the entire history of their nation sitting in the White House. It's a bad time all over for anything that smacks of tolerance and reason and I only hope people wake up to that fact soon, very soon or it'll be too late.

:agree:

922 Re: Brexit negotiations on Thu Aug 30 2018, 23:31

Sluffy

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Admin
@luckyPeterpiper wrote:I hate to say this but Panasonic will not be the last, not even close. I fully expect Nissan and Ford to follow suit and I wouldn't be surprised if a great many more manufacturing and service companies did the same. Brexit is going to be an unmitigated disaster for this country that our children and grandchildren will spend decades paying the price for long after the idiots who actually voted for it including my dad are dead and gone.

Frankly the politics (far too dignified a term for what it really is) of bigotry and hate have won and they won in the US too which is why they have the worst President in the entire history of their nation sitting in the White House. It's a bad time all over for anything that smacks of tolerance and reason and I only hope people wake up to that fact soon, very soon or it'll be too late.

Not that I really bother too much about something I have absolutely no control over but the way I understand it the reason why Panasonic are moving their HQ to remain in an EU country is more to do with how their own country taxes them.

They believe the UK will slash their tax rates undercutting the EU after Brexit to be attractive to drawing businesses in.  It seems the less tax they would have to pay in the UK because of this would mean more tax being taken from them back home in Japan.

As a global company it is somehow in their own interests to pay higher tax abroad and that is why they want their HQ to be in the EU - so they will pay more tax there than they would have done if it remain in the UK!

- Several Japanese financial companies have said they intend to move their main EU bases away from London.
Panasonic's decision was driven by a fear that Japan could start considering the UK a tax haven if it cuts corporate tax rates to attract business, Mr Abadie told the Nikkei Asian Review newspaper.
If Panasonic ends up paying less tax in the UK, that could render it liable for a bigger tax bill in Japan.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-45351288

923 Re: Brexit negotiations on Thu Aug 30 2018, 23:42

xmiles

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Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo
@Sluffy wrote:
@luckyPeterpiper wrote:I hate to say this but Panasonic will not be the last, not even close. I fully expect Nissan and Ford to follow suit and I wouldn't be surprised if a great many more manufacturing and service companies did the same. Brexit is going to be an unmitigated disaster for this country that our children and grandchildren will spend decades paying the price for long after the idiots who actually voted for it including my dad are dead and gone.

Frankly the politics (far too dignified a term for what it really is) of bigotry and hate have won and they won in the US too which is why they have the worst President in the entire history of their nation sitting in the White House. It's a bad time all over for anything that smacks of tolerance and reason and I only hope people wake up to that fact soon, very soon or it'll be too late.

Not that I really bother too much about something I have absolutely no control over but the way I understand it the reason why Panasonic are moving their HQ to remain in an EU country is more to do with how their own country taxes them.

They believe the UK will slash their tax rates undercutting the EU after Brexit to be attractive to drawing businesses in.  It seems the less tax they would have to pay in the UK because of this would mean more tax being taken from them back home in Japan.

As a global company it is somehow in their own interests to pay higher tax abroad and that is why they want their HQ to be in the EU - so they will pay more tax there than they would have done if it remain in the UK!

- Several Japanese financial companies have said they intend to move their main EU bases away from London.
Panasonic's decision was driven by a fear that Japan could start considering the UK a tax haven if it cuts corporate tax rates to attract business, Mr Abadie told the Nikkei Asian Review newspaper.
If Panasonic ends up paying less tax in the UK, that could render it liable for a bigger tax bill in Japan.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-45351288


Even though the reason for Panasonic leaving the UK may seem a bit esoteric it nevertheless means that other Japanese companies are likely to leave too which is not good for our economy. Quite a few companies are thinking of moving from the UK to the EU because of brexit but I have not heard of a single company with any plans to move to the UK because of brexit. Nor is there any evidence of any economic benefit arising from brexit.

924 Re: Brexit negotiations on Thu Aug 30 2018, 23:48

luckyPeterpiper

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Frank Worthington
Frank Worthington
Sluffy, the real reason Panasonic have moved has nothing to do with their japanese tax bill mate. Panasonic (UK) is actually a separate legal entity from Panasonic as a whole in part thanks to the way the Japanese government has incentivised companies to sell abroad and set up manufacturing facilities in foreign countries. For Mr Abadie to admit they're leaving the UK as a result of Brexit in order to ensure they don't lose the 'tariff free' movement of goods throughout the EU would be seen as grossly impolite and would lead to a loss of face both for him and Panasonic that is in Japanese culture completely unacceptable. The fact is the UK government cannot possibly afford to set the tax rates as low as it's claiming might be the case because of course (a) it would hurt the Treasury's revenue at a time when it's about to be hammered anyway and (b) they simply dare not do it anyway after all the noise about 'Starbucks' among others not paying their 'fair share'.

I seriously doubt the Japanese government cares what Panasonic UK or for that matter Nissan are paying to our government since their government is pretty much hand picked by their big corporations anyway. Their Prime Minister is still nothing more than a mouthpiece for Corporate Japan and it's been that way for nearly a century mate. What's odd is the Japanese people both know and accept that even as they profess to want a 'real' democracy. It's very much a cultural thing in which the chairman of the board has replaced the shogun but has much the same power albeit not so overtly.

925 Re: Brexit negotiations on Fri Aug 31 2018, 00:25

Sluffy

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Admin
@luckyPeterpiper wrote:Sluffy, the real reason Panasonic have moved has nothing to do with their japanese tax bill mate. Panasonic (UK) is actually a separate legal entity from Panasonic as a whole in part thanks to the way the Japanese government has incentivised companies to sell abroad and set up manufacturing facilities in foreign countries. For Mr Abadie to admit they're leaving the UK as a result of Brexit in order to ensure they don't lose the 'tariff free' movement of goods throughout the EU would be seen as grossly impolite and would lead to a loss of face both for him and Panasonic that is in Japanese culture completely unacceptable. The fact is the UK government cannot possibly afford to set the tax rates as low as it's claiming might be the case because of course (a) it would hurt the Treasury's revenue at a time when it's about to be hammered anyway and (b) they simply dare not do it anyway after all the noise about 'Starbucks' among others not paying their 'fair share'.

I seriously doubt the Japanese government cares what Panasonic UK or for that matter Nissan are paying to our government since their government is pretty much hand picked by their big corporations anyway. Their Prime Minister is still nothing more than a mouthpiece for Corporate Japan and it's been that way for nearly a century mate. What's odd is the Japanese people both know and accept that even as they profess to want a 'real' democracy. It's very much a cultural thing in which the chairman of the board has replaced the shogun but has much the same power albeit not so overtly.

Peter it is not me that is saying Panasonic is moving its HQ for tax reasons - it's the BBC Business Section - read the link above which I've already provided in my last post.

926 Re: Brexit negotiations on Fri Aug 31 2018, 01:15

wanderlust

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
It seems like "no deal" is inevitable ATM although that could change. Either way I reckon we're committing economic suicide. Some adamant Leavers don't care. The rest don't fully realise what it will mean to them.

927 Re: Brexit negotiations on Fri Aug 31 2018, 02:33

luckyPeterpiper

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Frank Worthington
Frank Worthington
@Sluffy wrote:
@luckyPeterpiper wrote:Sluffy, the real reason Panasonic have moved has nothing to do with their japanese tax bill mate. Panasonic (UK) is actually a separate legal entity from Panasonic as a whole in part thanks to the way the Japanese government has incentivised companies to sell abroad and set up manufacturing facilities in foreign countries. For Mr Abadie to admit they're leaving the UK as a result of Brexit in order to ensure they don't lose the 'tariff free' movement of goods throughout the EU would be seen as grossly impolite and would lead to a loss of face both for him and Panasonic that is in Japanese culture completely unacceptable. The fact is the UK government cannot possibly afford to set the tax rates as low as it's claiming might be the case because of course (a) it would hurt the Treasury's revenue at a time when it's about to be hammered anyway and (b) they simply dare not do it anyway after all the noise about 'Starbucks' among others not paying their 'fair share'.

I seriously doubt the Japanese government cares what Panasonic UK or for that matter Nissan are paying to our government since their government is pretty much hand picked by their big corporations anyway. Their Prime Minister is still nothing more than a mouthpiece for Corporate Japan and it's been that way for nearly a century mate. What's odd is the Japanese people both know and accept that even as they profess to want a 'real' democracy. It's very much a cultural thing in which the chairman of the board has replaced the shogun but has much the same power albeit not so overtly.

Peter it is not me that is saying Panasonic is moving its HQ for tax reasons - it's the BBC Business Section - read the link above which I've already provided in my last post.

You misunderstand me mate. I have no doubt that Mr Abadie said exactly what the BBC report he said. I'm saying that it's just not the true reason why Panasonic is leaving, it's simply their way of 'spinning' the announcement. It's basically a face saver all round, first by hinting the UK government is NOT to blame for the decision and second by giving a 'good' reason for Panasonic to leave. In truth though it's much more likely that Panasonic are jumping ship now because they already know there's not going to be a Brexit deal and they simply don't want to pay the various import tarrifs moving goods from the UK to tmainland Europe will incur. Those taxes may not come from this end, they certainly WILL from Europe itself. In effect anyone doing business in the UK will be seen as exporters to the EU and will attract much bigger import duties there as a result. With no deal the UK would be trading under WTA rules and they're not exactly friendly to us or the others in the world who have to abide by them when it comes to export to EU, USA, China and Japan in particular.

928 Re: Brexit negotiations on Sun Sep 02 2018, 15:41

wanderlust

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Tories now in-fighting with the Chancellor and Trade Secretary unable to agree on the extent of the damage a no-deal scenario will cause here.

Regardless of the figures, Liam Fox seems intent on following Project Ostrich through to it's inevitable conclusion.....

929 Re: Brexit negotiations on Sun Sep 02 2018, 15:57

luckyPeterpiper

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Frank Worthington
Frank Worthington
Unfortunately lusty I think no deal is certain no matter what the negotiating teams agree.

The reason for my pessimistic outlook is that whatever 'deal' is agreed now has to be ratified by all the member states of the EU. It has to be unanimous and I can think of at least four countries off the top of my head who won't be keen to give the UK anything that resembles a good deal because it would be committing political suicide for them domestically. Poland, Greece, even Spain and Italy aren't exactly eneamoured with us or the way our media have portrayed their citizens. Any government in those four nations that gets seen as helping the UK in any way can say goodbye to power pretty much instantly. It only needs ONE of them to say no and we're out of the EU with no deal in place. Once we ARE gone any kind of trade deal would be hard to get at best.

930 Re: Brexit negotiations on Sun Sep 02 2018, 16:55

wanderlust

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@luckyPeterpiper wrote:Unfortunately lusty I think no deal is certain no matter what the negotiating teams agree.

The reason for my pessimistic outlook is that whatever 'deal' is agreed now has to be ratified by all the member states of the EU. It has to be unanimous and I can think of at least four countries off the top of my head who won't be keen to give the UK anything that resembles a good deal because it would be committing political suicide for them domestically. Poland, Greece, even Spain and Italy aren't exactly eneamoured with us or the way our media have portrayed their citizens. Any government in those four nations that gets seen as helping the UK in any way can say goodbye to power pretty much instantly. It only needs ONE of them to say no and we're out of the EU with no deal in place. Once we ARE gone any kind of trade deal would be hard to get at best.
France and Germany have enough influence on the other member states to swing any deal, however it would have to be a deal the big two EU economies want and unfortunately the whole premise of Brexit goes against their core objective of creating a federation of countries that would collectively be able to compete with the economic superpowers of the USA and China. In that respect I don't believe a deal is impossible as Norway has already got a deal outside the EU.
IMO the biggest obstacle is our own government who are blindly ignoring the likely outcomes in order to curry political favour with what is now a minority of people who support Brexit.
They are not only burying their head in the sand and ignoring expert advice - including that coming from within their own party - but going to great lengths to discredit anyone who flags up the dangers ahead.
Liam Fox's argument is on the lines of "it might rain and we have no shelter but that doesn't necessarily mean we'll get wet as technically speaking all the raindrops could miss us."

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