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Sports Shield BWFC Ltd - LIQUIDATED

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91 Re: Sports Shield BWFC Ltd - LIQUIDATED on Thu Aug 24 2017, 15:54

y2johnny

avatar
Andy Walker
Andy Walker
Bellend57 wrote:Lucky l don't have to worry about being censored then
yeah, lucky us  :suicide:

http://Www.thefacefittester.co.uk

92 Re: Sports Shield BWFC Ltd - LIQUIDATED on Thu Aug 24 2017, 15:55

y2johnny

avatar
Andy Walker
Andy Walker
Natasha Whittam wrote:If he was offered mod status then this is my final post.
..dunno..

http://Www.thefacefittester.co.uk

93 Re: Sports Shield BWFC Ltd - LIQUIDATED on Thu Aug 24 2017, 16:00

Kane57

avatar
Nicolas Anelka
Nicolas Anelka
Don't worry Natasha it was swiftly rejected

94 Re: Sports Shield BWFC Ltd - LIQUIDATED on Thu Aug 24 2017, 16:03

y2johnny

avatar
Andy Walker
Andy Walker
Pretentioustwat57 wrote:Don't worry Natasha it was swiftly rejected
You really are a pretentious twat arent you manning.

http://Www.thefacefittester.co.uk

95 Re: Sports Shield BWFC Ltd - LIQUIDATED on Thu Aug 24 2017, 16:11

Kane57

avatar
Nicolas Anelka
Nicolas Anelka
y2johnny wrote:
Pretentioustwat57 wrote:Don't worry Natasha it was swiftly rejected
You really are a pretentious twat arent you manning.

Furthest thing from

96 Re: Sports Shield BWFC Ltd - LIQUIDATED on Thu Aug 24 2017, 16:13

Sluffy

avatar
Admin
Natasha Whittam wrote:If he was offered mod status then this is my final post.

I asked him if he would be interested in leading a part of the forum about 'Other Football' as he clearly has interests in football beyond just our club - a bit like Wessy did when the Olympics was on - being interested and involved in athletics and all that.

I had hoped it would help make the forum busier and stir a bit more of an interest in things in the football world other than BWFC.

I said he could have mod powers for this part of the forum if that would help him in running this new section (such as for merging threads or removing double posts, etc).

Mr Manning politely turned me down hence the feeble stab I made of it myself earlier today.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Shame really, as I thought he would have made an excellent job of it without it being much of an effort in it for him, already having the interest in the Premier, Europe and England games than many of us don't really seem to have.

Onwards and upwards though!



Johnny - being a mod doesn't stop you from calling people bellends (if they deserve it!).

Just let us know if you want to be a mod again - we'd love to have you back if you did.



Last edited by Sluffy on Thu Aug 24 2017, 16:16; edited 1 time in total

97 Re: Sports Shield BWFC Ltd - LIQUIDATED on Thu Aug 24 2017, 16:14

y2johnny

avatar
Andy Walker
Andy Walker
Oblivious57 wrote:
y2johnny wrote:
Pretentioustwat57 wrote:Don't worry Natasha it was swiftly rejected
You really are a pretentious twat arent you manning.

Furthest thing from
Well if that is true you are certainly doing your self no favours with your "above everybody else" attitude you always display

http://Www.thefacefittester.co.uk

98 Re: Sports Shield BWFC Ltd - LIQUIDATED on Thu Aug 24 2017, 16:24

Kane57

avatar
Nicolas Anelka
Nicolas Anelka
I don't think I have but will take on board what you've said. As for being pretentious then I'm surprised you haven't given our mate Ellis/Ten the same treatment

99 Re: Sports Shield BWFC Ltd - LIQUIDATED on Thu Aug 24 2017, 16:27

y2johnny

avatar
Andy Walker
Andy Walker
Because in all the years you have posted, granted on and off, you always come on, have a dig, offer sweet fuck all other than snide remarks and comments and then fuck off again.  Like i said earlier.  He has contributed more in 3 days entertainment wise (whether factual or not) than you have in 3 years.

http://Www.thefacefittester.co.uk

100 Re: Sports Shield BWFC Ltd - LIQUIDATED on Thu Aug 24 2017, 16:40

y2johnny

avatar
Andy Walker
Andy Walker
Sluffy wrote:
Natasha Whittam wrote:If he was offered mod status then this is my final post.

Johnny - being a mod doesn't stop you from calling people bellends (if they deserve it!).

Just let us know if you want to be a mod again - we'd love to have you back if you did.
Cheers Sluffy but with work and the kids i'm not about too much these days.  Plus Nat doesn't like people with power greater than hers and she still thinks i'm called cecil in real life so i am looking to keep that up too!

http://Www.thefacefittester.co.uk

101 Re: Sports Shield BWFC Ltd - LIQUIDATED on Fri Aug 25 2017, 07:39

Ten Bobsworth


Mario Jardel
Mario Jardel
I've been thinking that my work isn't finished, Sluffy. Have you been thinking?

Do you still think that there's some great mystery that's not been revealed about the financing of the club during Uncle Eddie's ownership?

Do you stll think that the 30-odd pages of copious notes and audited accounts BWFC produced every year might have been works of fabrication and fiction that's covered up some gigantic fraud?

Do you still think its impossible that the £100million Uncle Eddie invested in emerging markets in 2005 produced the £170million he lent to BWFC over the next ten years?

Could it not be the case that every relevant statement the club has made has been true all along and that the water has been persistently muddied by indivduals with excessive imaginations and defective powers of reasoning?



Last edited by Ten Bobsworth on Fri Aug 25 2017, 09:12; edited 6 times in total (Reason for editing : Needed improving)

102 Re: Sports Shield BWFC Ltd - LIQUIDATED on Fri Aug 25 2017, 08:04

Ten Bobsworth


Mario Jardel
Mario Jardel
I hope members will forgive me for not commenting previously on the SportsShield BWFC Ltd (dormant?) balance sheet.

Accepting that the ten bob invested in Burnden Leisure is too small to register, where is:
1.The loan from BluMarble
2.The loan to BWFC
3. The interest and charges both ways

How can it be dormant when it has bought shares and both borrowed and loaned money? Or have these transactions been recorded in some other name?

The club's auditors were not satisfied with the information they got on this saga. Is that surprising?

..dunno..



Last edited by Ten Bobsworth on Fri Aug 25 2017, 08:56; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : Punctuation & improvement)

103 Re: Sports Shield BWFC Ltd - LIQUIDATED on Fri Aug 25 2017, 09:11

Sluffy

avatar
Admin
Ten Bobsworth wrote:I've been thinking that my work isn't finished, Sluffy. Have you been thinking?

Do you still think that there's some great mystery that's not been revealed about the financing of the club during Uncle Eddie's ownership?

Do you stll think that the 30-odd pages of copious notes and audited accounts BWFC produced every year might have been works of fabrication and fiction that's covered up some gigantic fraud?

Do you still think its impossible that the £100million Uncle Eddie invested in emerging markets in 2005 produced the £170million he lent to BWFC over the next ten years?

Your public awaits.

My public couldn't give a squat about what I think and even I've never been bothered about opening up books that have long been closed, such as what may or may not have happened under the Davies regime.

Anyway out of politeness I will reply to you nevertheless.

I've already stated above in this very thread that I don't doubt Davies invested the money shown by the clubs account into the business - so no I don't think they are lies and fiction - and more to the point never have.  Indeed I've argued the point with others that the books are independently audited and no respectable audit company would compromise its reputation by signing of dodgy accounts just for us.

I can't remember all the details now and I'm certainly not going to bother myself looking them up just to please you but Davies provided a line of credit to the club from one of his other 'business's'.

This business though was not recorded as having Davies 'own' it but rather that he had a financial 'interest' in it.  This led me to speculate that others could well have financial 'interests' in it too.  In other words not all the money going into the business to invest were necessarily coming out of Eddie Davies back pocket.

Also I didn't think for one moment that Davies financial interests in places like Brazilian shopping malls were again financed solely by himself - other people were investing - and therefore taking some of the profit from these ventures - or sharing the loss.

Davies never owned the patents on the kettles - and as far as I'm aware that is where the real wealth of Strix came from?

And to repeat myself now for the third time on this thread - it is all now water under the bridge.

I don't care if I was right or wrong about Davies.

He put money into the club (whether it was his own or someone else's is neither here or there to me now).

The clubs moved on - I've moved on too.

No point worry about something that as already passed is there?

104 Re: Sports Shield BWFC Ltd - LIQUIDATED on Fri Aug 25 2017, 09:23

Ten Bobsworth


Mario Jardel
Mario Jardel
Thanks for replying to the earlier version of my questions. I changed them a tad later.

I think you are still muddying the waters a bit, Sluffy. And btw it does matter because Uncle Eddie is President of the club and it still owes him money and there are still outstanding charges registered in the name of Moonshift.

And I also think that recording history accurately is quite important even if you and Manning don't.

105 Re: Sports Shield BWFC Ltd - LIQUIDATED on Fri Aug 25 2017, 09:50

Sluffy

avatar
Admin
Ten Bobsworth wrote:Thanks for replying to the earlier version of my questions. I changed them a tad later.

I think you are still muddying the waters a bit, Sluffy. And btw it does matter because Uncle Eddie is President of the club and it still owes him money and there are still outstanding charges registered in the name of Moonshift.

And I also think that recording history accurately is quite important even if you and Manning don't.

As far as I was aware the debt still owed to Davies helps prevents potential asset stripping by any new owners and is only to be paid back based on the clubs performance - ie if we could ever afford to repay it by becoming successful again within a certain time frame.

Also history is written by the victors, or so they say - so I wouldn't always take it that any history book is a true and accurate reflection as to what actually happened at the time!







106 Re: Sports Shield BWFC Ltd - LIQUIDATED on Fri Aug 25 2017, 09:59

wanderlust

avatar
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Ten Bobsworth wrote:I hope members will forgive me for not commenting previously on the SportsShield BWFC Ltd (dormant?) balance sheet.

Accepting that the ten bob invested in Burnden Leisure is too small to register, where is:
1.The loan from BluMarble
2.The loan to BWFC
3. The interest and charges both ways

How can it be dormant when it has bought shares and both borrowed and loaned money? Or have these transactions been recorded in some other name?
Because it's a balance sheet i.e. a snapshot of the value of the club at a particular point in time.
This balance sheet was obviously produced after the shares and other assets were disposed of  presumably to the liquidators - like a final bank statement after you've closed the account.

Now if you want the story of the ins and outs and what went on over e.g. the last year, you'll be needing a P & L and the previous financial statements to compare against.

107 Re: Sports Shield BWFC Ltd - LIQUIDATED on Fri Aug 25 2017, 11:00

Ten Bobsworth


Mario Jardel
Mario Jardel
Sluffy wrote:
Ten Bobsworth wrote:Thanks for replying to the earlier version of my questions. I changed them a tad later.

I think you are still muddying the waters a bit, Sluffy. And btw it does matter because Uncle Eddie is President of the club and it still owes him money and there are still outstanding charges registered in the name of Moonshift.

And I also think that recording history accurately is quite important even if you and Manning don't.

As far as I was aware the debt still owed to Davies helps prevents potential asset stripping by any new owners and is only to be paid back based on the clubs performance - ie if we could ever afford to repay it by becoming successful again within a certain time frame.

Also history is written by the victors, or so they say - so I wouldn't always take it that any history book is a true and accurate reflection as to what actually happened at the time!







I do know that from personal experience since a few years ago I was mentioned, in complimentary terms, in a book written by an eminent historian. But I also know that the historian relied on accounts given by individuals keen to exaggerate their part in certain events when their efforts towards a successful outcome were mostly minimal and for five years counter-productive.

The historian was a nice guy who knew a lot about the Bourbons but not much about finance or the machinations of certain types of individual.



Last edited by Ten Bobsworth on Fri Aug 25 2017, 11:43; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : bad spelling)

108 Re: Sports Shield BWFC Ltd - LIQUIDATED on Fri Aug 25 2017, 11:06

Ten Bobsworth


Mario Jardel
Mario Jardel
wanderlust wrote:
Ten Bobsworth wrote:I hope members will forgive me for not commenting previously on the SportsShield BWFC Ltd (dormant?) balance sheet.

Accepting that the ten bob invested in Burnden Leisure is too small to register, where is:
1.The loan from BluMarble
2.The loan to BWFC
3. The interest and charges both ways

How can it be dormant when it has bought shares and both borrowed and loaned money? Or have these transactions been recorded in some other name?
Because it's a balance sheet i.e. a snapshot of the value of the club at a particular point in time.
This balance sheet was obviously produced after the shares and other assets were disposed of  presumably to the liquidators - like a final bank statement after you've closed the account.

Now if you want the story of the ins and outs and what went on over e.g. the last year, you'll be needing a P & L and the previous financial statements to compare against.
Sorry old pal, but the balance sheet is, in this case, a statement of the position of the company at 31 December 2016. Btw I am now well into my fifth decade as a qualified chartered accountant

109 Re: Sports Shield BWFC Ltd - LIQUIDATED on Fri Aug 25 2017, 11:27

wanderlust

avatar
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Ten Bobsworth wrote:
wanderlust wrote:
Ten Bobsworth wrote:I hope members will forgive me for not commenting previously on the SportsShield BWFC Ltd (dormant?) balance sheet.

Accepting that the ten bob invested in Burnden Leisure is too small to register, where is:
1.The loan from BluMarble
2.The loan to BWFC
3. The interest and charges both ways

How can it be dormant when it has bought shares and both borrowed and loaned money? Or have these transactions been recorded in some other name?
Because it's a balance sheet i.e. a snapshot of the value of the club at a particular point in time.
This balance sheet was obviously produced after the shares and other assets were disposed of  presumably to the liquidators - like a final bank statement after you've closed the account.

Now if you want the story of the ins and outs and what went on over e.g. the last year, you'll be needing a P & L and the previous financial statements to compare against.
Sorry old pal, but the balance sheet is, in this case, a statement of the position of the company at 31 December 2016. Btw I am now well into my fifth decade as a qualified chartered accountant
Apologies. In that case I'm stumped because Deano borrowed the money and bought club shares in February 2016 (approx) so the only thing I can think of is that by the end of the year the shares etc had been shifted into another entity - leaving a zero balance.
To check this we'd still need a P&L/CFF for the period as you know. Would that be now available at Companies' House? It would be a damned sight more useful to get an insight into what happened than the published Balance Sheet.

110 Re: Sports Shield BWFC Ltd - LIQUIDATED on Fri Aug 25 2017, 12:02

Ten Bobsworth


Mario Jardel
Mario Jardel
wanderlust wrote:
Ten Bobsworth wrote:
wanderlust wrote:
Ten Bobsworth wrote:I hope members will forgive me for not commenting previously on the SportsShield BWFC Ltd (dormant?) balance sheet.

Accepting that the ten bob invested in Burnden Leisure is too small to register, where is:
1.The loan from BluMarble
2.The loan to BWFC
3. The interest and charges both ways

How can it be dormant when it has bought shares and both borrowed and loaned money? Or have these transactions been recorded in some other name?
Because it's a balance sheet i.e. a snapshot of the value of the club at a particular point in time.
This balance sheet was obviously produced after the shares and other assets were disposed of  presumably to the liquidators - like a final bank statement after you've closed the account.

Now if you want the story of the ins and outs and what went on over e.g. the last year, you'll be needing a P & L and the previous financial statements to compare against.
Sorry old pal, but the balance sheet is, in this case, a statement of the position of the company at 31 December 2016. Btw I am now well into my fifth decade as a qualified chartered accountant
Apologies. In that case I'm stumped because Deano borrowed the money and bought club shares in February 2016 (approx) so the only thing I can think of is that by the end of the year the shares etc had been shifted into another entity - leaving a zero balance.
To check this we'd still need a P&L/CFF for the period as you know. Would that be now available at Companies' House? It would be a damned sight more useful to get an insight into what happened than the published Balance Sheet.
Its not the shares I'm talking about. They only cost ten bob. Its the £5million BluMarble loan that's missing and the £4million loan to the club that was paid out of it. Both were outstanding then and still are. That's why the case was in court this week

Small companies btw are not required to publish P&L accounts and even balance sheet info is limited to basics.

Ken filed a dormant balance sheet too. I don't think that was technically correct but not much happened in that company other than the ten bob investment so I wouldn't lose much sleep over that one.

111 Re: Sports Shield BWFC Ltd - LIQUIDATED on Fri Aug 25 2017, 12:36

ChicoryCoffee


David Ngog
David Ngog
Sorry I'm cyclical on this topic.  Not about Eds commitment, but about the numbers.

I've seen accountancy described as an art v a science - as long as it is within the bounds of legality.  There are many examples of recording and accounting to achieve a particular objective, be that stating a specific profit or loss or setting asset values.  We cannot necessarily rely on auditors to get it right all the time as some recent examples in the US have shown us with fines of the big four, and changes to accounting rules e.g. SAB101.  I am sure it's the same in the U.K.   Im no expert I just read the papers.....  we also have some great examples of "creative"  accounting / bending the rules to achieve an objective with BHS.
I normally don't comment on here, I just enjoy the banter you have, but felt I wanted to contribute as ten bob aka Chris seemed very intent on driving his agenda here.  I've already seen this on the BEN comments page and seemingly being unsuccessful there has migrated onto here so far unchallenged.  

I've no intention of getting into an argument with anyone but wanted to highlight that it is never that simple.....

112 Re: Sports Shield BWFC Ltd - LIQUIDATED on Fri Aug 25 2017, 12:42

ChicoryCoffee


David Ngog
David Ngog
Must add though I do really enjoy he Eddie & mrs Eddie stories. Reminds me of Wogans Janet and John on radio 2

113 Re: Sports Shield BWFC Ltd - LIQUIDATED on Fri Aug 25 2017, 13:03

Sluffy

avatar
Admin
Hello and welcome Chicory.

We've waited a while for your first post on here then two come together!

Very Happy

Now that you've broken your duck on Nuts we look forward to you posting a bit more frequently from now on particularly as you've clearly got a good healthy scepticism about things!

You'd fit in just perfectly here.

Laughing

114 Re: Sports Shield BWFC Ltd - LIQUIDATED on Fri Aug 25 2017, 14:27

Ten Bobsworth


Mario Jardel
Mario Jardel
ChicoryCoffee wrote:Sorry I'm cyclical on this topic.  Not about Eds commitment, but about the numbers.

I've seen accountancy described as an art v a science - as long as it is within the bounds of legality.  There are many examples of recording and accounting to achieve a particular objective, be that stating a specific profit or loss or setting asset values.  We cannot necessarily rely on auditors to get it right all the time as some recent examples in the US have shown us with fines of the big four, and changes to accounting rules e.g. SAB101.  I am sure it's the same in the U.K.   Im no expert I just read the papers.....  we also have some great examples of "creative"  accounting / bending the rules to achieve an objective with BHS.
I normally don't comment on here, I just enjoy the banter you have, but felt I wanted to contribute as ten bob aka Chris seemed very intent on driving his agenda here.  I've already seen this on the BEN comments page and seemingly being unsuccessful there has migrated onto here so far unchallenged.  

I've no intention of getting into an argument with anyone but wanted to highlight that it is never that simple.....
I have no agenda other than exposing falsehood and lies about the club I have supported for well over sixty years. Its been shocking to behold to see virtually every site throwing up some baseless suspicion or unfounded allegation by individuals who haven't a clue what they are talking about.
As I have signed off audit reports for innumerable companies and examined a great many more I am well aware of the tricks that can be pulled and why they are pulled.

 I see other clubs owned by individuals who have got rich quick by things like paying minimum wages on zero hour contracts yet some of our 'supporters' think they are entitled to throw mud at an owner whose wealth derived from as respectable a business as you are likely to find here or hearabouts.

I have been through all the clubs Annual Reports in more detail than seemingly anyone contributing to any of these sites and found absolutely nothing to excite any suspicion.

But if you think that somehow money could have been hived off untaxed and re-introduced as irrecoverable loans perhaps you might explain, not just what evidence you have for it, but what the point of it would be and why anyone would risk going to prison over something so futile. And has it occurred to you that so much money swashes around in football that directors need to be wary of HMRC which is more than keen to get its hands on its share of any lucre.

As for the Bolton News, its been a big part of the problem for over ten years and I decided to stop posting on it after receiving certain threats from an individual. I'll say no more about that for the timebeing.

Glad you liked the Sue and Eddie scenes. Bit of a fan of Janet and John myself. Did you follow the Lowbrow Academy scenes I put on the BN?



Last edited by Ten Bobsworth on Fri Aug 25 2017, 20:28; edited 1 time in total

115 Re: Sports Shield BWFC Ltd - LIQUIDATED on Fri Aug 25 2017, 16:17

Ten Bobsworth


Mario Jardel
Mario Jardel
Here's a good  example of the idiotic brainlessness you get on the BN site posted 45minutes ago:


We NEED a big fish to come in this pond. Eddie Davies must have made all his losses back now and his mate Big Sam has time on his hands , now that would be a great consortium !!
But the American Business consortium sounds promising. First they must buy Deano out and then progress to Ken's. That's how ED took over. How about the board before Eddie , they built the Reebok and Euxton. I wonder if they fancy a comeback ???

116 Re: Sports Shield BWFC Ltd - LIQUIDATED on Fri Aug 25 2017, 17:18

ChicoryCoffee


David Ngog
David Ngog
I honestly wish I was smart enough and qualified enough to fully understand the accounts.  I have been through them every year for the past 6 years - I'm not a lifer like many on here and only came to BWFC recently, but have an interest in this side of it too. 

To explain my suspicion.  It is based simply on 3 facts :

1) Eds holding company funding BWFC is based offshore and therefore we have zero visibility of the money trail
2) Ed is resident on the Isle of Man - so he may like a bit of tax shelter - who wouldn't in his shoes ?
3) How losses roll into debts and interest on debt rolls into even larger debts over time (ie Eds repayments and interest) but investment continues...

The last one I am sure I can be educated on, from an accountancy perspective, and it may just be a big heart on Eds part....

The first 1 makes me suspicious as we do not know :

1) The other potential investors within that trust (is it Fildraw Private Trust Bermuda ? offshores are known to be secretive)
2) Their interests and/or other companies they "invest" or draw profit from
3) The size of any of the proceeds from 2) that could be offset by losses @ BWFC that are in turn losses on the Trusts investment in BWFC

It may all be completely innocent, but typically offshoring is there to optimise tax, and you don't pay tax on a loss (ie BWFC P&L).  I admit that 3) may not make sense mathematically a loss cancelling a profit, but there are clever ways of drawing down money such as those demonstrated by Green & Chapell with BHS.  Sell & lease back is also a wheeze that Green and his wife seem to like too

Ill lookup the BN post ten bob - appreciate it if you have a link as I imagine BN isnt the simplest site to search.. Very Happy

Very Happy Many thanks for the welcome Sluffy.  I don't want to argue with people, I think there are some people on here who are really, really good at that, and I enjoy their banter.....  But I am happy to have a grown up discussion and be educated



Last edited by ChicoryCoffee on Fri Aug 25 2017, 17:21; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Smiley, spelling & punctuation)

117 Re: Sports Shield BWFC Ltd - LIQUIDATED on Fri Aug 25 2017, 18:03

rammywhite

avatar
El Hadji Diouf
El Hadji Diouf
You know- I'm really fed up with this. I too am a chartered accountant  who can claim to be in his fifth decade of qualification and I too have audited hundreds of companies and  signed off hundreds of sets of Accounts.
We went through all this facile speculation and ignorant assertion a couple of years ago and we went through it time after time after time. People who know nothing about accounting/auditing/financial reporting were wildly speculating on the basis of no knowledge whatsoever,  about what was going on, how Eddie was a crook making millions on the sly, speculating wildly about how much  money he had, where he got it from, who was in bed with him. How the Accounts were manipulated to give one picture when the reality according to the doom- mongers and fantasists was entirely different.
You don't fool people like Deloitte nor will you fool the new auditors Cowgill Holloway. They're not the mafia to be paid off with a few free season tickets.
It's curious how they, on the premises for months looking at the clubs finances got it wrong but self-appointed cognoscenti somehow knew better than the auditors did about what was really happening.
Eddie was brilliant for BWFC- a genuine fan who put his very substantial money where his mouth was and bought us the best years we have had for decades..
I had determined not to get involved with all the nonsense going on in this thread because that's what most of it is- nonsense.
I don't know who ten bob is, but I'm in the same profession as him and its about time some of you listened to what he's saying.
I said the same thing a couple of years ago when all the financial troubles came to a head and its now rearing its ugly head again. . There's no fraud, nobody making millions on the sly- none of the fancy tricks that you imagine happening are happening.
.
I've said my piece and that's all you'll hear from me about all of this because its virtually entirely assertion and speculation based on fantasy.
I'm an accountant-and I deal in facts and reality

118 Re: Sports Shield BWFC Ltd - LIQUIDATED on Fri Aug 25 2017, 18:09

Ten Bobsworth


Mario Jardel
Mario Jardel
rammywhite wrote:You know- I'm really fed up with this. I too am a chartered accountant  who can claim to be in his fifth decade of qualification and I too have audited hundreds of companies and  signed off hundreds of sets of Accounts.
We went through all this facile speculation and ignorant assertion a couple of years ago and we went through it time after time after time. People who know nothing about accounting/auditing/financial reporting were wildly speculating on the basis of no knowledge whatsoever,  about what was going on, how Eddie was a crook making millions on the sly, speculating wildly about how much  money he had, where he got it from, who was in bed with him. How the Accounts were manipulated to give one picture when the reality according to the doom- mongers and fantasists was entirely different.
You don't fool people like Deloitte nor will you fool the new auditors Cowgill Holloway. They're not the mafia to be paid off with a few free season tickets.
It's curious how they, on the premises for months looking at the clubs finances got it wrong but self-appointed cognoscenti somehow knew better than the auditors did about what was really happening.
Eddie was brilliant for BWFC- a genuine fan who put his very substantial money where his mouth was and bought us the best years we have had for decades..
I had determined not to get involved with all the nonsense going on in this thread because that's what most of it is- nonsense.
I don't know who ten bob is, but I'm in the same profession as him and its about time some of you listened to what he's saying.
I said the same thing a couple of years ago when all the financial troubles came to a head and its now rearing its ugly head again. . There's no fraud, nobody making millions on the sly- none of the fancy tricks that you imagine happening are happening.
.
I've said my piece and that's all you'll hear from me about all of this because its virtually entirely assertion and speculation based on fantasy.
I'm an accountant-and I deal in facts and reality
Hallelujah

119 Re: Sports Shield BWFC Ltd - LIQUIDATED on Fri Aug 25 2017, 19:16

y2johnny

avatar
Andy Walker
Andy Walker
rammywhite wrote:You know- I'm really fed up with this. I too am a chartered accountant  who can claim to be in his fifth decade of qualification and I too have audited hundreds of companies and  signed off hundreds of sets of Accounts.
We went through all this facile speculation and ignorant assertion a couple of years ago and we went through it time after time after time. People who know nothing about accounting/auditing/financial reporting were wildly speculating on the basis of no knowledge whatsoever,  about what was going on, how Eddie was a crook making millions on the sly, speculating wildly about how much  money he had, where he got it from, who was in bed with him. How the Accounts were manipulated to give one picture when the reality according to the doom- mongers and fantasists was entirely different.
You don't fool people like Deloitte nor will you fool the new auditors Cowgill Holloway. They're not the mafia to be paid off with a few free season tickets.
It's curious how they, on the premises for months looking at the clubs finances got it wrong but self-appointed cognoscenti somehow knew better than the auditors did about what was really happening.
Eddie was brilliant for BWFC- a genuine fan who put his very substantial money where his mouth was and bought us the best years we have had for decades..
I had determined not to get involved with all the nonsense going on in this thread because that's what most of it is- nonsense.
I don't know who ten bob is, but I'm in the same profession as him and its about time some of you listened to what he's saying.
I said the same thing a couple of years ago when all the financial troubles came to a head and its now rearing its ugly head again. . There's no fraud, nobody making millions on the sly- none of the fancy tricks that you imagine happening are happening.
.
I've said my piece and that's all you'll hear from me about all of this because its virtually entirely assertion and speculation based on fantasy.
I'm an accountant-and I deal in facts and reality
:clap:

http://Www.thefacefittester.co.uk

120 Re: Sports Shield BWFC Ltd - LIQUIDATED on Fri Aug 25 2017, 20:52

Ten Bobsworth


Mario Jardel
Mario Jardel
ChicoryCoffee wrote:I honestly wish I was smart enough and qualified enough to fully understand the accounts.  I have been through them every year for the past 6 years - I'm not a lifer like many on here and only came to BWFC recently, but have an interest in this side of it too. 

To explain my suspicion.  It is based simply on 3 facts :

1) Eds holding company funding BWFC is based offshore and therefore we have zero visibility of the money trail
2) Ed is resident on the Isle of Man - so he may like a bit of tax shelter - who wouldn't in his shoes ?
3) How losses roll into debts and interest on debt rolls into even larger debts over time (ie Eds repayments and interest) but investment continues...

The last one I am sure I can be educated on, from an accountancy perspective, and it may just be a big heart on Eds part....

The first 1 makes me suspicious as we do not know :

1) The other potential investors within that trust (is it Fildraw Private Trust Bermuda ? offshores are known to be secretive)
2) Their interests and/or other companies they "invest" or draw profit from
3) The size of any of the proceeds from 2) that could be offset by losses @ BWFC that are in turn losses on the Trusts investment in BWFC

It may all be completely innocent, but typically offshoring is there to optimise tax, and you don't pay tax on a loss (ie BWFC P&L).  I admit that 3) may not make sense mathematically a loss cancelling a profit, but there are clever ways of drawing down money such as those demonstrated by Green & Chapell with BHS.  Sell & lease back is also a wheeze that Green and his wife seem to like too

Ill lookup the BN post ten bob - appreciate it if you have a link as I imagine BN isnt the simplest site to search.. Very Happy

Very Happy Many thanks for the welcome Sluffy.  I don't want to argue with people, I think there are some people on here who are really, really good at that, and I enjoy their banter.....  But I am happy to have a grown up discussion and be educated
I'm fed up with watching the reports from Hull so I thought I'd look up one of my Lowbrow Academy chronicles. Here it is, hope you like it. Riggins was a regular contributor to the BN site.


’OK boys, you can go now. Riggins, would you stay behind please.’’


‘’Who Sir, me Sir, I haven’t done anything Sir.  It were Davies, Sir.’’


‘’I want to speak to you about your homework, Riggins. You seem to be getting rather confused.
I first asked you if, as reported, BW was losing £1m per month in 2014/15 how do you think the monthly wages got paid. Do you remember your answer Riggins?’’


‘’Not exactly, Sir.’’


‘’Well I do. It was something of a confusion, and you seem to be easily confused, but you came to the conclusion that Davies must have put in £12m in that year.
Do you know why that was not a very good answer, Riggins?’’


‘’No, Sir.’’


‘’Well, Riggins. There are two reasons:
1.     We haven’t seen any accounts for 2014/15, have we, so we don’t know that the £1m per month was accurate
2.     We haven’t seen any accounts for 2014/15 so we don’t know if anyone else put any money in.
Do you understand Riggins?’’


‘’I think so, Sir’’


‘’So I then asked you about the 2013/14 season and you said you’d given your answer but couldn’t remember what it was.
But you hadn’t given an answer had you, Riggins? Did you not understand that the 2013/14 season was not the same as the 2014/15 season?’’


‘’I don’t know, Sir.’’


‘’Now I’d like to ask you about something else, Riggins.
You keep accusing Davies of things that aren’t true. Why are you doing that Riggins?’’


‘’Well I don’t like him, Sir. None of us like him, Sir. He doesn’t play with us, Sir.’’


‘’Has he been giving you his pocket money, Riggins?’’


‘’No, Sir.’’


‘’Are you sure, Riggins?’’


‘’He’s not given us much, Sir.’’


‘’How much has he given you, Riggins?’’


‘’I don’t know, Sir.’’


‘’Can you not remember, Riggins?’’


‘’No, Sir.’’


‘’Have you been calling his father names, Riggins?’’


‘’No, Sir. Not me Sir?’’


‘’Have you been calling him a tax dodger, Riggins?’’


‘’Well he is, Sir. My Dad  says it stands to reason, Sir. His Dad lives in the Isle of Man, Sir, and he’s got this thingy somewhere, and he’s, and he’s and he’s..’’


‘’Just a moment, Riggins. Are you sure this is what your father told you?’’


‘’Oh yes’ Sir.’’


‘’Is your father an expert on taxes?’’


‘’Oh yes, Sir. My Dad knows everything, Sir.’’


‘’Remind me what your father does for a living, Riggins.’’


‘’He’s a taxi driver, Sir.’’


‘’I see. Thank you, Riggins. I’ll have a word with Mr Handysides and see if we can get him to take you for woodwork. I don’t think Business Studies is going to be the best subject for you.’’

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