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Quick poll

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Have you changed your position on Brexit?

5% 5% [ 1 ]
42% 42% [ 8 ]
53% 53% [ 10 ]
Total Votes : 19

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31 Re: Quick poll on Fri Oct 13 2017, 18:18

xmiles

avatar
Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo
Reebok Trotter wrote:I'm pretty sure that Mother Teresa wanted us to stay in the EU but she kept a low profile during the campaign to cover her bases. As a democracy we have to accept the majority decision and that's why I don't think the Tories will push for a second referendum even though secretly I suspect the majority would have voted to stay. The whole thing is a crock of shit unfortunately.

The trouble with a referendum is that it isn't reversable in a few years time unlike a general election. Only 36% of eligible voters voted for brexit and it was still quite close at 52/48. Personally I can't see any reason why another referendum when the terms are known isn't a reasonable course of action despite some brexit extremists acting as if the referendum vote was handed down from heaven on tablets of stone.

32 Re: Quick poll on Fri Oct 13 2017, 18:19

xmiles

avatar
Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo
Natasha Whittam wrote:
xmiles wrote:

The majority of what?

The majority of people who have voted. Try and keep up.

Not any more. Try to keep up. Laughing

33 Re: Quick poll on Fri Oct 13 2017, 19:12

gloswhite

avatar
Youri Djorkaeff
Youri Djorkaeff
XM. What do you think of a possible second referendum being limited to those who voted the first time ? After all, if some couldn’t be arsed to join in the first time. Why let them now?
My point is that there are a myriad of different arguments and interpretations of the current mess we’re in, but one constant in all of it, is that we are coming out of the EU. I believe that this is one position the politicians can not get around. If they reneged on the right and morally correct action of adhering to a legal and democratic result, it would cause absolute havoc, for the whole country.  Bear in mind that though the vast majority of the exit voters are keeping quiet, probably because things are in such a state, they are still there, waiting. As for people changing, I believe that can go both ways, especially when the EU politics, bully boy tactics, and intransigence, is taken into account.

34 Re: Quick poll on Fri Oct 13 2017, 19:26

Bread2.0

avatar
Andy Walker
Andy Walker
gloswhite wrote:XM. What do you think of a possible second referendum being limited to those who voted the first time ? After all, if some couldn’t be arsed to join in the first time. Why let them now?
My point is that there are a myriad of different arguments and interpretations of the current mess we’re in, but one constant in all of it, is that we are coming out of the EU. I believe that this is one position the politicians can not get around. If they reneged on the right and morally correct action of adhering to a legal and democratic result, it would cause absolute havoc, for the whole country.  Bear in mind that though the vast majority of the exit voters are keeping quiet, probably because things are in such a state, they are still there, waiting. As for people changing, I believe that can go both ways, especially when the EU politics, bully boy tactics, and intransigence, is taken into account.

Come on now, Glos.......

You suggest banning anyone who didn't vote the first time round from having a say in the second referendum but then go on to talk about a "legal and democratic result."

You can't play the "it's the democratic will of the people" card and then suggest that we exclude eligible voters from the process, mate.

And as for remain voters changing their minds, I'm yet to see a single shred of evidence for that. Anywhere.

35 Re: Quick poll on Fri Oct 13 2017, 19:58

xmiles

avatar
Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo
gloswhite wrote:XM. What do you think of a possible second referendum being limited to those who voted the first time ? After all, if some couldn’t be arsed to join in the first time. Why let them now?
My point is that there are a myriad of different arguments and interpretations of the current mess we’re in, but one constant in all of it, is that we are coming out of the EU. I believe that this is one position the politicians can not get around. If they reneged on the right and morally correct action of adhering to a legal and democratic result, it would cause absolute havoc, for the whole country.  Bear in mind that though the vast majority of the exit voters are keeping quiet, probably because things are in such a state, they are still there, waiting. As for people changing, I believe that can go both ways, especially when the EU politics, bully boy tactics, and intransigence, is taken into account.

I don't understand why you think restricting voting in a second referendum to those who voted in the first is a good idea although it would probably help the remainers as the older you are the more likely you are to have voted leave!

As far as it being morally right to continue with brexit, would that still be your view if overwhelming convincing evidence emerges that it will be the disaster that I expect? In other words carry on regardless of the consequences. This just seems like an abdication of responsibility.

36 Re: Quick poll on Fri Oct 13 2017, 20:07

finlaymcdanger


Andy Walker
Andy Walker
xmiles wrote:
gloswhite wrote:XM. What do you think of a possible second referendum being limited to those who voted the first time ? After all, if some couldn’t be arsed to join in the first time. Why let them now?
My point is that there are a myriad of different arguments and interpretations of the current mess we’re in, but one constant in all of it, is that we are coming out of the EU. I believe that this is one position the politicians can not get around. If they reneged on the right and morally correct action of adhering to a legal and democratic result, it would cause absolute havoc, for the whole country.  Bear in mind that though the vast majority of the exit voters are keeping quiet, probably because things are in such a state, they are still there, waiting. As for people changing, I believe that can go both ways, especially when the EU politics, bully boy tactics, and intransigence, is taken into account.

I don't understand why you think restricting voting in a second referendum to those who voted in the first is a good idea although it would probably help the remainers as the older you are the more likely you are to have voted leave!

As far as it being morally right to continue with brexit, would that still be your view if overwhelming convincing evidence emerges that it will be the disaster that I expect? In other words carry on regardless of the consequences. This just seems like an abdication of responsibility.

Half the people who voted are probably dead by now

37 Re: Quick poll on Fri Oct 13 2017, 21:02

Reebok Trotter

avatar
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
finlaymcdanger wrote:
xmiles wrote:
gloswhite wrote:XM. What do you think of a possible second referendum being limited to those who voted the first time ? After all, if some couldn’t be arsed to join in the first time. Why let them now?
My point is that there are a myriad of different arguments and interpretations of the current mess we’re in, but one constant in all of it, is that we are coming out of the EU. I believe that this is one position the politicians can not get around. If they reneged on the right and morally correct action of adhering to a legal and democratic result, it would cause absolute havoc, for the whole country.  Bear in mind that though the vast majority of the exit voters are keeping quiet, probably because things are in such a state, they are still there, waiting. As for people changing, I believe that can go both ways, especially when the EU politics, bully boy tactics, and intransigence, is taken into account.

I don't understand why you think restricting voting in a second referendum to those who voted in the first is a good idea although it would probably help the remainers as the older you are the more likely you are to have voted leave!

As far as it being morally right to continue with brexit, would that still be your view if overwhelming convincing evidence emerges that it will be the disaster that I expect? In other words carry on regardless of the consequences. This just seems like an abdication of responsibility.

Half the people who voted are probably dead by now

I wouldn't go that far.

38 Re: Quick poll on Fri Oct 13 2017, 21:24

scottjames30

avatar
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
The sun will rise in the morning, the world will keep on moving whatever happens, enjoy your days.
Worry about the important things in life, some soul finding needed on here.

39 Re: Quick poll on Fri Oct 13 2017, 21:26

wessy

avatar
Andy Walker
Andy Walker
I voted remain, i don't think we have any idea of how bad it will become yet, our negotiating team seem clueless. Although i honestly believe the referendum was phrased poorly and people were ill informed, i think it would be political suicide to call for a second referendum. it would cast doubts on any future election result ans simply that can't be allowed to happen.

40 Re: Quick poll on Fri Oct 13 2017, 21:29

boltonbonce

avatar
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
scottjames30 wrote:The sun will rise in the morning, the world will keep on moving whatever happens, enjoy your days.
Worry about the important things in life, some soul finding needed on here.
Yes indeed. We need some British spunk.

41 Re: Quick poll on Sat Oct 14 2017, 10:59

gloswhite

avatar
Youri Djorkaeff
Youri Djorkaeff
Bread2.0 wrote:
gloswhite wrote:XM. What do you think of a possible second referendum being limited to those who voted the first time ? After all, if some couldn’t be arsed to join in the first time. Why let them now?
My point is that there are a myriad of different arguments and interpretations of the current mess we’re in, but one constant in all of it, is that we are coming out of the EU. I believe that this is one position the politicians can not get around. If they reneged on the right and morally correct action of adhering to a legal and democratic result, it would cause absolute havoc, for the whole country.  Bear in mind that though the vast majority of the exit voters are keeping quiet, probably because things are in such a state, they are still there, waiting. As for people changing, I believe that can go both ways, especially when the EU politics, bully boy tactics, and intransigence, is taken into account.

Come on now, Glos.......

You suggest banning anyone who didn't vote the first time round from having a say in the second referendum but then go on to talk about a "legal and democratic result."

You can't play the "it's the democratic will of the people" card and then suggest that we exclude eligible voters from the process, mate.

And as for remain voters changing their minds, I'm yet to see a single shred of evidence for that. Anywhere.
Thats just my point Breaders. People are chopping and changing, or trying to, those bits of the referendum they didn't like or agree with. Just look at Nick Clegg. Even published a book on how to stop Brexit. Democracy at its best !
People are now realising that the delay in the talks are not just down to the UK, indeed, according to a leaked EU document, plans are afoot to begin trade negotiations in December. Macron is emerging as a less than powerful leader, and Merkel is slightly damaged goods, and it is they who are driving the delays at this time. Come December, I think we will find that rather more of the other 26 will want to call a stop to this particular approach.
It really is an almighty mess, but I think we have to realise that its going to happen, one way or another.

42 Re: Quick poll on Sat Oct 14 2017, 13:42

wanderlust

avatar
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
The thing about democracy is that the people are always given a chance to reverse previous decisions and any decision has a timeframe and that includes electing the Government, Local Authorities and Government policies.

For some unknown reason some people are claiming the referendum is sacrosanct and, unlike any other aspect of the democratic process denies the British public the opportunity to reverse their decision. 

And there is little doubt that they would. 

Surely the only possible conclusion is that the British people are being denied their democratic right to revisit bad decisions and Brexit is being railroaded through to justify Theresa May's existence.

Another aspect that nobody seems to mention is that now that the British people are starting to better understand the issues that Brexit entails and the effect it will have on the UK why can't there be a different referendum asking a different question i.e. one that is unambiguous such as if the negotiating team fail to secure deals that meet specified criteria should we then abandon Brexit?

Perhaps local Councils should organise referenda along these lines and if the nation's feeling has changed as the polls suggest, advise local MPs to call for a vote of no confidence in Brexit?

43 Re: Quick poll on Sat Oct 14 2017, 14:39

Cajunboy

avatar
Tony Kelly
Tony Kelly
It's strange how many remainers don't seem to understand how democracy works.

What's the point of a referendum if you don't respect the result.


It's going to be a long and bloody road, but we will get there despite our crap politicians.

44 Re: Quick poll on Sat Oct 14 2017, 14:43

Bread2.0

avatar
Andy Walker
Andy Walker
Cajunboy wrote:It's strange how many remainers don't seem to understand how democracy works.

What's the point of a referendum if you don't respect the result.

Must....not....get...angry....and......respond......to...this....utter....fucking......drivel..........

45 Re: Quick poll on Sat Oct 14 2017, 14:46

Cajunboy

avatar
Tony Kelly
Tony Kelly
Well done Breaders, I respect you even more now.



Last edited by Cajunboy on Sat Oct 14 2017, 14:46; edited 1 time in total

46 Re: Quick poll on Sat Oct 14 2017, 14:46

wanderlust

avatar
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Cajunboy wrote:It's strange how many remainers don't seem to understand how democracy works.
Surely it's the Brextremists who don't understand democracy? Tell me, what democratically taken decisions don't have a review process and an option to change the decision? 

Apart from Brexit?

And what right has anyone to tell the British people that they have lost their democratic right to change their minds?

We don't live in a fascist state - yet.

47 Re: Quick poll on Sat Oct 14 2017, 14:49

Cajunboy

avatar
Tony Kelly
Tony Kelly
wanderlust wrote:
Cajunboy wrote:It's strange how many remainers don't seem to understand how democracy works.
Surely it's the Brextremists who don't understand democracy? Tell me, what democratically taken decisions don't have a review process and an option to change the decision? 

Apart from Brexit?

And what right has anyone to tell the British people that they have lost their democratic right to change their minds?
We can't flip in and out of the EU every five years.

48 Re: Quick poll on Sat Oct 14 2017, 15:01

Bread2.0

avatar
Andy Walker
Andy Walker
That's not the point he was making though, was it?

You've had a pop at the Remain movement, saying that we don't understand how democracy works.

The whole point of fixed-term parliament and regular General Elections is to protect democracy.

ie, to give the people the option to change their minds on things and elect representatives who reflect their views and thus stop one side seizing power and being allowed to keep hold of it without being challenged.

Strangely enough, this "ignorant of how democracy works" Remain advocate learnt that at university 30 years ago when he studied Govt & Politics.....

49 Re: Quick poll on Sat Oct 14 2017, 16:05

xmiles

avatar
Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo
Cajunboy wrote:It's strange how many remainers don't seem to understand how democracy works.

What's the point of a referendum if you don't respect the result.



So using your own logic we should not have had a referendum on brexit because we had one in 1975 supporting joining the EU (or Common Market as it was then known) and apparently once you have had a referendum the decision can't be changed.

50 Re: Quick poll on Sat Oct 14 2017, 16:05

Cajunboy

avatar
Tony Kelly
Tony Kelly
Bread2.0 wrote:That's not the point he was making though, was it?

You've had a pop at the Remain movement, saying that we don't understand how democracy works.

The whole point of fixed-term parliament and regular General Elections is to protect democracy.

ie, to give the people the option to change their minds on things and elect representatives who reflect their views and thus stop one side seizing power and being allowed to keep hold of it without being challenged.

Strangely enough, this "ignorant of how democracy works" Remain advocate learnt that at university 30 years ago when he studied Govt & Politics.....
Yes, I do appreciate and understand the whole point of fixed-term parliament and regular General Elections is to protect democracy.

So do you think that the referendum was put to the country on a consultative basis only and was not binding on Parliament?

51 Re: Quick poll on Sat Oct 14 2017, 16:10

Cajunboy

avatar
Tony Kelly
Tony Kelly
xmiles wrote:
Cajunboy wrote:It's strange how many remainers don't seem to understand how democracy works.

What's the point of a referendum if you don't respect the result.



So using your own logic we should not have had a referendum on brexit because we had one in 1975 supporting joining the EU (or Common Market as it was then known) and apparently once you have had a referendum the decision can't be changed.  
In 1975 I voted to be in the Common Market.

The EU is a totally different animal.

52 Re: Quick poll on Sat Oct 14 2017, 16:16

xmiles

avatar
Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo
Cajunboy wrote:
xmiles wrote:
Cajunboy wrote:It's strange how many remainers don't seem to understand how democracy works.

What's the point of a referendum if you don't respect the result.



So using your own logic we should not have had a referendum on brexit because we had one in 1975 supporting joining the EU (or Common Market as it was then known) and apparently once you have had a referendum the decision can't be changed.  
In 1975 I voted to be in the Common Market.

The EU is a totally different animal.

That avoids the point. If you believe the results of a referendum cannot be changed as that is somehow not how democracy works, then the referendum last year should never have been held.

53 Re: Quick poll on Sat Oct 14 2017, 16:17

Bread2.0

avatar
Andy Walker
Andy Walker
Cajunboy wrote:
xmiles wrote:
Cajunboy wrote:It's strange how many remainers don't seem to understand how democracy works.

What's the point of a referendum if you don't respect the result.



So using your own logic we should not have had a referendum on brexit because we had one in 1975 supporting joining the EU (or Common Market as it was then known) and apparently once you have had a referendum the decision can't be changed.  
In 1975 I voted to be in the Common Market.

The EU is a totally different animal.

So.......

You initially voted for one thing.

But it then changed into something else.

So you gladly accepted the opportunity to have another vote on whether or not you still wanted to be a part of it.

Can you not see how you are (unwittingly admittedly) making the argument for a second referendum on leaving the EU?

54 Re: Quick poll on Sat Oct 14 2017, 16:26

xmiles

avatar
Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo
Bread2.0 wrote:
Cajunboy wrote:
xmiles wrote:
Cajunboy wrote:It's strange how many remainers don't seem to understand how democracy works.

What's the point of a referendum if you don't respect the result.



So using your own logic we should not have had a referendum on brexit because we had one in 1975 supporting joining the EU (or Common Market as it was then known) and apparently once you have had a referendum the decision can't be changed.  
In 1975 I voted to be in the Common Market.

The EU is a totally different animal.

So.......

You initially voted for one thing.

But it then changed into something else.

So you gladly accepted the opportunity to have another vote on whether or not you still wanted to be a part of it.

Can you not see how you are (unwittingly admittedly) making the argument for a second referendum on leaving the EU?

:clap:

55 Re: Quick poll on Sat Oct 14 2017, 16:35

Cajunboy

avatar
Tony Kelly
Tony Kelly
Bread2.0 wrote:
Cajunboy wrote:
xmiles wrote:
Cajunboy wrote:It's strange how many remainers don't seem to understand how democracy works.

What's the point of a referendum if you don't respect the result.



So using your own logic we should not have had a referendum on brexit because we had one in 1975 supporting joining the EU (or Common Market as it was then known) and apparently once you have had a referendum the decision can't be changed.  
In 1975 I voted to be in the Common Market.

The EU is a totally different animal.

So.......

You initially voted for one thing.

But it then changed into something else.

So you gladly accepted the opportunity to have another vote on whether or not you still wanted to be a part of it.

Can you not see how you are (unwittingly admittedly) making the argument for a second referendum on leaving the EU?
I take your point and I did smile when I read your point. But as you said it changed into something else.

The vote in 1975 was to join the Common Market.

The Brexit vote in 2016 was over 40 years later, the EU is a totally different concept than we  voted for in 1975.



Last edited by Cajunboy on Sat Oct 14 2017, 16:45; edited 1 time in total

56 Re: Quick poll on Sat Oct 14 2017, 16:37

Cajunboy

avatar
Tony Kelly
Tony Kelly
Breaders do you think that the referendum was put to the country on a consultative basis only and was not binding on Parliament?

57 Re: Quick poll on Sat Oct 14 2017, 17:01

Bread2.0

avatar
Andy Walker
Andy Walker
Without googling the answer, yes.

I thought it was a non-binding advisory referendum.

I may be wrong though.

(And seeing as you've now asked me that twice, I suspect I am.)

58 Re: Quick poll on Sat Oct 14 2017, 18:46

Natasha Whittam

avatar
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
The British public had a chance to vote. They voted to leave the EU. That's the end of the story.

Just because you think the majority voted incorrectly doesn't mean you're right.

There is ZERO chance of a second referendum, you need to accept that and get on with your life.

59 Re: Quick poll on Sat Oct 14 2017, 18:58

Bread2.0

avatar
Andy Walker
Andy Walker
Why...?

I made a massive mistake marrying my first wife because despite initially seeming fine, she turned out to be a bit of a mental bastard.

Should I just've accepted that my life was effectively over at 25 and done fuck all about it?

60 Re: Quick poll on Sat Oct 14 2017, 18:59

Natasha Whittam

avatar
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Bread2.0 wrote:Why...?

I made a massive mistake marrying my first wife because despite initially seeming fine, she turned out to be a bit of a mental bastard.

Should I just've accepted that my life was effectively over at 25 and done fuck all about it?

For the sake of the second Mrs B, yes!

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