Bolton Wanderers Fans Forum

You are not connected. Please login or register

Bolton Nuts » BWFC » Wandering Minds » Oh That's Alright Then

Oh That's Alright Then

Go to page : 1, 2, 3  Next

Go down  Message [Page 1 of 3]

1 Oh That's Alright Then on Wed Jan 03 2018, 13:04

xmiles

avatar
Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-42552267

Of course if the Tories actually funded the NHS properly maybe he wouldn't need to make completely meaningless and hypocritical apologies.

2 Re: Oh That's Alright Then on Wed Jan 03 2018, 13:06

Natasha Whittam

avatar
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Don't start this shit again, the NHS has been underfunded for 30 years, several governments have failed to get a grip of this problem.

3 Re: Oh That's Alright Then on Wed Jan 03 2018, 13:08

Norpig

avatar
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Why fund the NHS when you can prop up your failing Government by giving a billion to the DUP?  ..dunno..

4 Re: Oh That's Alright Then on Wed Jan 03 2018, 13:16

karlypants

avatar
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Norpig wrote:Why fund the NHS when you can prop up your failing Government by giving a billion to the DUP?  ..dunno..
The Tories should have been booted out for their reckless bribe spending to gain power again.

5 Re: Oh That's Alright Then on Wed Jan 03 2018, 13:51

Natasha Whittam

avatar
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Because Labour wouldn't have done the same thing would they :facepalm: :facepalm: .

The only future for the NHS is to start charging for non life changing treatment, and to make people who cause their own conditions cough up for their treatment.

Why should a patient with a rare cancer not get the drugs they need when someone is getting IVF on the NHS?

Harsh I know, but it's the only way forward.

6 Re: Oh That's Alright Then on Wed Jan 03 2018, 14:15

Norpig

avatar
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
That's a slippery slope towards privatisation Nat, would anyone really want that?

7 Re: Oh That's Alright Then on Wed Jan 03 2018, 14:22

wanderlust

avatar
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Privatisation  - which would invariably lead to foreign ownership of services - is looking like the most likely option within 15 years unless the NHS can become more economically viable. The issue is what percentage of our taxes the Government is willing to spend on our healthcare and with the cost of Brexit and the absence of international trade deals the overall pot will shrink as time goes by until the excellent Spanish and French medical service providers step in and save the day, just as foreign companies won nearly every power provision and transport contract.

8 Re: Oh That's Alright Then on Wed Jan 03 2018, 14:25

xmiles

avatar
Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo
Natasha Whittam wrote:Don't start this shit again, the NHS has been underfunded for 30 years, several governments have failed to get a grip of this problem.

Some have done a lot worse than others! Here are some facts. In particular if you look at chart 6 you can see that the Labour party consistently spends more on the NHS than the Tories. Chart 7 shows how we now spend less on health than most European countries. All this at a time when demand is increasing.

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=4&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwitgpLL_rvYAhVXOMAKHS69CuwQFgg8MAM&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bbc.co.uk%2Fnews%2Fhealth-38887694&usg=AOvVaw0hOpLAxe2n4l0ruidlYAWJ

9 Re: Oh That's Alright Then on Wed Jan 03 2018, 14:34

Natasha Whittam

avatar
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Norpig wrote:That's a slippery slope towards privatisation Nat, would anyone really want that?

People might not necessarily want it, but it's the only way forward in my opinion. The NHS should be there when your life depends on it, not for a broken arm when you fall down pissed on a Friday night.

People have gotten too used to free healthcare, but the NHS cannot sustain that any longer. Sadly, no politician is going to dare try something radical like that though, votes are far more important than a few lives unfortunately.

10 Re: Oh That's Alright Then on Wed Jan 03 2018, 14:37

wanderlust

avatar
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse


Police aren't happy either...

11 Re: Oh That's Alright Then on Wed Jan 03 2018, 16:15

okocha

avatar
Tony Kelly
Tony Kelly
Natasha Whittam wrote:

The only future for the NHS is ..... to make people who cause their own conditions cough up for their treatment.

Totally agree....but there was an "expert" on Sky's Press Preview last night saying the complete opposite: "Live your life selfishly with no regard for the health consequences of your lifestyle but still expect the NHS to bail to bail you out" was his unbelievable credo.

I was shouting at the TV for the others in the debate to ask the idiot how he'd feel if he or his wife/children had some ghastly ailment through no fault of their own but could not get treatment or a bed because the hospital was full of obese drunkards on drugs and thirty cigs a day.  
I had to switch off in total frustration that anyone could advocate this viewpoint

12 Re: Oh That's Alright Then on Wed Jan 03 2018, 16:32

T.R.O.Y


Nicolas Anelka
Nicolas Anelka
Natasha Whittam wrote:Don't start this shit again, the NHS has been underfunded for 30 years, several governments have failed to get a grip of this problem.

Trash, on just about every measure Labour's record is an improvement on what has been on offer since 2010. You make this nonsense argument every time and it's baseless, present some facts to support or give it a rest.

The argument there is no difference between the parties is now redundant, there is a clear choice on offer between continued austerity and investment. Labour's manifesto was popular because it made a clear distinction from the current path, I hope they get the opportunity to put it into action sooner rather than later.

13 Re: Oh That's Alright Then on Wed Jan 03 2018, 16:35

wanderlust

avatar
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
okocha wrote:
Natasha Whittam wrote:

The only future for the NHS is ..... to make people who cause their own conditions cough up for their treatment.

Totally agree....but there was an "expert" on Sky's Press Preview last night saying the complete opposite: "Live your life selfishly with no regard for the health consequences of your lifestyle but still expect the NHS to bail to bail you out" was his unbelievable credo.

I was shouting at the TV for the others in the debate to ask the idiot how he'd feel if he or his wife/children had some ghastly ailment through no fault of their own but could not get treatment or a bed because the hospital was full of obese drunkards on drugs and thirty cigs a day.  
I had to switch off in total frustration that anyone could advocate this viewpoint
Can of worms that one. I can just imagine the incessant legal battles to define if illness is self-inflicted or not in hundreds of thousands of cases plus the individual and class action suing of food and drink manufacturers, advertisers, film and TV companies, newspapers, councils, the Government and anyone else who could be blamed for any particular condition. We already live in a litigious society but this would be a field day for the legal profession.

14 Re: Oh That's Alright Then on Wed Jan 03 2018, 16:51

Natasha Whittam

avatar
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
T.R.O.Y wrote:Trash, on just about every measure Labour's record is an improvement on what has been on offer since 2010. You make this nonsense argument every time and it's baseless, present some facts to support or give it a rest.

The argument there is no difference between the parties is now redundant, there is a clear choice on offer between continued austerity and investment. Labour's manifesto was popular because it made a clear distinction from the current path, I hope they get the opportunity to put it into action sooner rather than later.

I voted for Labour so I can see both sides of any argument. You seem to be in a fantasy world where the NHS was hunky dory under Labour and everyone got their hospital treatment within hours of seeing their GP. Perhaps Labour did spend more, but it was never enough, nowhere near enough. Because to make a difference you have to put taxes up.

And no party wants to say/do that when the next election could go either way.

15 Re: Oh That's Alright Then on Wed Jan 03 2018, 16:53

Bollotom2014

avatar
Tony Kelly
Tony Kelly
T.R.O.Y wrote:
Natasha Whittam wrote:Don't start this shit again, the NHS has been underfunded for 30 years, several governments have failed to get a grip of this problem.

Trash, on just about every measure Labour's record is an improvement on what has been on offer since 2010. You make this nonsense argument every time and it's baseless, present some facts to support or give it a rest.

The argument there is no difference between the parties is now redundant, there is a clear choice on offer between continued austerity and investment. Labour's manifesto was popular because it made a clear distinction from the current path, I hope they get the opportunity to put it into action sooner rather than later.

When Labour were last in power, costs were low. Costs since have sky rocketed and there are a couple more tiers of management to be paid for. Latest projection is a further £30 Billion needed by 2020.
  Now it's going to be a brave government but it's about time for a taxation change. I reckon everyone should be taxed an extra penny or two, even taking the same percentage from pensioners and benefits claimants. It's the only fair way to do it.  And get the employers to pay a fair wage without the need of working tax credits. 
  Having said that we could give £30 Billion to the NHS tomorrow and they would still say it wasn't enough. I'm lucky. I get treatment within a few hours if I need it but it makes me angry to see civvy folk queuing in hospitals on trolleys, in ambulances and in corridors. Perhaps the super hospitals are too much now and regional infirmaries better.
  I had occasion to go to the old military hospital at Woolwich a couple of weeks ago. It's now a modern super-hospital. Took me about fifteen minutes to walk from one end to the other. 2000 meals three times a day, hundreds of medical staff and support staff. Must cost a fortune to run and that is just one hospital. Frightening to think how it will be in a few years.
   It's more than a political football now. We should all be involved.

16 Re: Oh That's Alright Then on Wed Jan 03 2018, 16:55

Natasha Whittam

avatar
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
wanderlust wrote:Can of worms that one. I can just imagine the incessant legal battles to define if illness is self-inflicted or not in hundreds of thousands of cases plus the individual and class action suing of food and drink manufacturers, advertisers, film and TV companies, newspapers, councils, the Government and anyone else who could be blamed for any particular condition. We already live in a litigious society but this would be a field day for the legal profession.

I accept it could be difficult to implement, but it could be done. Of course there will be borderline cases, but generally a doctor knows whether you brought this on yourself or you are an innocent victim.

17 Re: Oh That's Alright Then on Wed Jan 03 2018, 17:08

T.R.O.Y


Nicolas Anelka
Nicolas Anelka
Bollotom2014 wrote:
T.R.O.Y wrote:
Natasha Whittam wrote:Don't start this shit again, the NHS has been underfunded for 30 years, several governments have failed to get a grip of this problem.

Trash, on just about every measure Labour's record is an improvement on what has been on offer since 2010. You make this nonsense argument every time and it's baseless, present some facts to support or give it a rest.

The argument there is no difference between the parties is now redundant, there is a clear choice on offer between continued austerity and investment. Labour's manifesto was popular because it made a clear distinction from the current path, I hope they get the opportunity to put it into action sooner rather than later.

When Labour were last in power, costs were low. Costs since have sky rocketed and there are a couple more tiers of management to be paid for. Latest projection is a further £30 Billion needed by 2020.
  Now it's going to be a brave government but it's about time for a taxation change. I reckon everyone should be taxed an extra penny or two, even taking the same percentage from pensioners and benefits claimants. It's the only fair way to do it.  And get the employers to pay a fair wage without the need of working tax credits. 
  Having said that we could give £30 Billion to the NHS tomorrow and they would still say it wasn't enough. I'm lucky. I get treatment within a few hours if I need it but it makes me angry to see civvy folk queuing in hospitals on trolleys, in ambulances and in corridors. Perhaps the super hospitals are too much now and regional infirmaries better.
  I had occasion to go to the old military hospital at Woolwich a couple of weeks ago. It's now a modern super-hospital. Took me about fifteen minutes to walk from one end to the other. 2000 meals three times a day, hundreds of medical staff and support staff. Must cost a fortune to run and that is just one hospital. Frightening to think how it will be in a few years.
   It's more than a political football now. We should all be involved.

Costs have risen at a reasonably steady rate since the 70s, until 04/05 where it began to increase at a faster rate. Large population growth were bound to cause this, but it also coincided with a boom in the economy before the economy crashed. 

Completely agree that increasing taxes is the way to go on this one, Labour are willing to do this but increasing taxes is something the Tories are ideologically opposed to, it is incredibly unlikely they will go for that. 

More likely they'll lean on the private sector (Virgin Health contracts last week), Blair's government are culpable for introducing this option through PFI, but we should be reversing the damage that's been done not exacerbating it.

18 Re: Oh That's Alright Then on Wed Jan 03 2018, 17:16

xmiles

avatar
Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo
Since some people won't take the trouble to actually look at the link I posted earlier here is a simple fact for them:

Since the NHS was created in 1948, the average annual rise in NHS spending has been just over 4%. During the Labour years under Blair and Brown this was closer to 7%. Under the current Tory government it is 1%.

19 Re: Oh That's Alright Then on Wed Jan 03 2018, 17:25

Angry Dad

avatar
Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo
What are hospitals and GP surgeries in London full of ?

20 Re: Oh That's Alright Then on Wed Jan 03 2018, 17:27

boltonbonce

avatar
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Angry Dad wrote:What are hospitals and GP surgeries in London full of ?
Patients.

21 Re: Oh That's Alright Then on Wed Jan 03 2018, 17:29

Angry Dad

avatar
Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo
boltonbonce wrote:
Angry Dad wrote:What are hospitals and GP surgeries in London full of ?
Patients.
Nope.

22 Re: Oh That's Alright Then on Wed Jan 03 2018, 17:30

T.R.O.Y


Nicolas Anelka
Nicolas Anelka
The cold virus?

23 Re: Oh That's Alright Then on Wed Jan 03 2018, 17:42

Cajunboy

avatar
Tony Kelly
Tony Kelly
xmiles wrote:Since some people won't take the trouble to actually look at the link I posted earlier here is a simple fact for them:

Since the NHS was created in 1948, the average annual rise in NHS spending has been just over 4%. During the Labour years under Blair and Brown this was closer to 7%. Under the current Tory government it is 1%.

That's because the Blair/Brown  governments left nothing in the till.

They even admitted it themselves when they were booted out of office.

24 Re: Oh That's Alright Then on Wed Jan 03 2018, 17:44

T.R.O.Y


Nicolas Anelka
Nicolas Anelka
Cajunboy wrote:
xmiles wrote:Since some people won't take the trouble to actually look at the link I posted earlier here is a simple fact for them:

Since the NHS was created in 1948, the average annual rise in NHS spending has been just over 4%. During the Labour years under Blair and Brown this was closer to 7%. Under the current Tory government it is 1%.

That's because the Blair/Brown  governments left nothing in the till.

They even admitted it themselves when they were booted out of office.

Yes, because we bailed out the banks not because of spending 7% on the NHS.

25 Re: Oh That's Alright Then on Wed Jan 03 2018, 17:45

Cajunboy

avatar
Tony Kelly
Tony Kelly
The former chief secretary to the Treasury, Liam Byrne, has reignited criticism of Labour's stewardship of the economy with a note for his successor which said "there's no money left".

26 Re: Oh That's Alright Then on Wed Jan 03 2018, 17:47

T.R.O.Y


Nicolas Anelka
Nicolas Anelka
See post 24.

27 Re: Oh That's Alright Then on Wed Jan 03 2018, 17:49

Natasha Whittam

avatar
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Once again this turns into a Labour v Tory debate. Boring, but it's the main reason nothing will ever change.

28 Re: Oh That's Alright Then on Wed Jan 03 2018, 18:00

xmiles

avatar
Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo
Cajunboy wrote:The former chief secretary to the Treasury, Liam Byrne, has reignited criticism of Labour's stewardship of the economy with a note for his successor which said "there's no money left".

That was a joke - admittedly a poor one - not a fact. The Tories friends in the banks destroyed the economy not the Labour government who were forced to waste £850 billion bailing out the banks.

29 Re: Oh That's Alright Then on Wed Jan 03 2018, 18:18

T.R.O.Y


Nicolas Anelka
Nicolas Anelka
Natasha Whittam wrote:Once again this turns into a Labour v Tory debate. Boring, but it's the main reason nothing will ever change.


So what’s the solution?

30 Re: Oh That's Alright Then on Wed Jan 03 2018, 18:24

Natasha Whittam

avatar
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
T.R.O.Y wrote:So what’s the solution?

I've given you my solution, make the NHS free for life changing/threatening conditions only. The rest should be paid for.

Trouble is, to push something so radical through you'd need cross-party support. And that will never happen because people have careers to protect.

Back to top  Message [Page 1 of 3]

Go to page : 1, 2, 3  Next

Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum