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Derby 3-0 Bolton

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61 Re: Derby 3-0 Bolton on Sat Apr 07 2018, 17:01

karlypants

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Report: Derby County 3-0 Bolton Wanderers

Bolton Wanderers had an afternoon to forget after they were well beaten by Derby County at the iPro Stadium.

Goals from Alex Pearce, Matej Vydra and Tom Lawrence ensured the hosts ran out comfortable winners and consigned Wanderers to a third successive defeat.

Team News

Phil Parkinson made five changes from the team that lost to Birmingham City in midweek. David Wheater, Mark Little, Antonee Robinson, Jem Karacan and Aaron Wilbraham were in the starting XI with Andrew Taylor, Sammy Ameobi and Derik dropping to the bench. Karl Henry overcame an injury concern to retain his place in the middle of the park.

First Half

Wheater wore the captain’s armband upon his return to the starting XI with Wanderers commencing the game in a 3-5-2 formation.

Ben Alnwick was pressed into action quite earlier on when he blocked a David Nugent effort with his legs after the hosts broke quickly following a Wanderers attack.

But the Wanderers couldn’t do anything to prevent Alex Pearce heading home the opener just two minutes later when the big defender rose unmarked to head home a Rams’ corner.

Wanderers had an opportunity to get on terms after Josh Vela latched on to a Wheater knockdown but the midfielder’s effort lacked the power to trouble the Derby defence.

Derby’s attacking threat was always present and Wanderers were fortunate to see Andreas Weimann struggle to control the ball after he sprang the offside trap.

Although Wanderers were passing the ball around well in midfield they were unable to press into the final third and test Scott Carson in the Rams’ goal.

But things went from bad to worse just after the half hour mark when Derby hit their second of the afternoon. Nugent looked to be offside as he shot towards goal and although Alnwich managed to get in the way of the striker’s shot Vydra was on hand to tap home the rebound into an empty net.

Wanderers’ brightest moment of the half came just two minutes before half time when Robinson beat his man down the left to whip in a cross. However, Curtis Davies managed to get to the ball before it reached Adam Le Fondre.

Second Half

Parkinson made two changes during the break with Noone and Ameobi on for Burke and Wilbraham and with the substitutions came a change in shape as Wanderers played in a 4-2-3-1 formation.

Ameobi showed his attacking intentions almost immediately when he cut in from the left only to see Davies thwart Le Fondre once again.

The hosts hit their third through Tom Lawrence who fired from range in to the bottom right hand corner past Alnwick.

Vela tried his luck from 25 yards to at least get his side on the scoresheet but the effort flew harmlessly over Carson’s bar to sum up Wanderers’ luck.

The introduction of Noone and Ameobi saw Wanderers test the Derby defence more so than they had done in the first half.

Noone’s volley from a Little cross deflected behind before Ameobi saw his strike come off the foot of the post from an acute angle.

Wanderers made their final change with just over 15 minutes to go when Derik came on for Henry.

Carson was pressed into action to deny Mark Beevers on two separate occasions in quick succession. Both efforts came directly from corners with the former England keeper tipping over a header from the Wanderers defender then keep out his half volley.

Wanderers were enjoying something of a late attacking flurry with Wheater going close twice and Karacan seeing his shot deflect wide.

Despite the late rally, Wanderers were unable to reduce the arrears.

Full Time

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62 Re: Derby 3-0 Bolton on Sat Apr 07 2018, 17:03

boltonbonce

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
To be honest,earlier in the season I thought we'd be down by Christmas,so they're not doing too bad! Razz

63 Re: Derby 3-0 Bolton on Sat Apr 07 2018, 17:05

Wanderers for 45


Mario Jardel
Mario Jardel
I’d be surprised if we stayed up now.
After clawing ourselves from 2 points after 11 matches. Selling our leading scorer. Looks like Relegation is calling us. The next two matches are massive. Typical Bolton.

64 Re: Derby 3-0 Bolton on Sat Apr 07 2018, 17:05

boltonbonce

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
And please don't bring Buckley back for the Millwall game. 

At least Long John Silver had the decency to only have one leg.

65 Re: Derby 3-0 Bolton on Sat Apr 07 2018, 17:33

doffcocker

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Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo
Beginning to wonder what the point of bringing Clough back actually was.

Wilbraham is pretty much the new Stephen Dobbie. Basically a League One/Two standard player who's scored one or two big goals but otherwise isn't nearly up to the job.

This game was taylor made for Clough. Derby fans hate him and he clearly thrives on being pantomime villain.

It's irrelevant that Wilbraham is like 2 foot taller, he's still shit.

66 Re: Derby 3-0 Bolton on Sat Apr 07 2018, 17:44

Wanderers for 45


Mario Jardel
Mario Jardel
Playing Wilbriham basically raised the White Flag. His goal at Sheffield Wednesday was greeted with joy and shock.
Shock and Awe. But he’s greeted as a joke player, would not get in Accrington’s team. Our Derby next season.
The Fact Millwall have not won at our ground for 44 and half years still doesn’t fill me with hope.
We will all be back next season come what May. Wake me up in June .
Carp Fishing in France. C’est la Vie!

67 Re: Derby 3-0 Bolton on Sat Apr 07 2018, 17:54

karlypants

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
I have just ordered a curry and have opened the first of two bottles of Merlot to ease the pain.

If that's not enough then I have half a bottle of Hendrick's left.

68 Re: Derby 3-0 Bolton on Sat Apr 07 2018, 18:07

Natasha Whittam

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
doffcocker wrote:Beginning to wonder what the point of bringing Clough back actually was.

Wilbraham is pretty much the new Stephen Dobbie. Basically a League One/Two standard player who's scored one or two big goals but otherwise isn't nearly up to the job.

This game was taylor made for Clough. Derby fans hate him and he clearly thrives on being pantomime villain.

It's irrelevant that Wilbraham is like 2 foot taller, he's still shit.

Clough has been diabolical since his return. Parky has made plenty of mistakes, leaving Clough out is not one of them.

69 Re: Derby 3-0 Bolton on Sat Apr 07 2018, 18:57

doffcocker

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Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo
Natasha Whittam wrote:

Clough has been diabolical since his return.

Yes, so we should play some big 38 year old bloke from Stockport instead.

You really are a tool. You get a bee in your bonnet about a player and you don't give a shit how bad the alternatives are, you just want them dropped out of spite.

70 Re: Derby 3-0 Bolton on Sat Apr 07 2018, 19:28

Natasha Whittam

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
doffcocker wrote:Yes, so we should play some big 38 year old bloke from Stockport instead.

You really are a tool. You get a bee in your bonnet about a player and you don't give a shit how bad the alternatives are, you just want them dropped out of spite.


You massive gobshite. Clough is too lightweight, I bet he couldn't even beat you up.

And what's Stockport done to you? Is that where you found out your one and only girlfriend was really a man?

71 Re: Derby 3-0 Bolton on Sat Apr 07 2018, 19:49

karlypants

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Natasha Whittam wrote:
Is that where you found out your one and only girlfriend was really a man?

Oh the irony! lol!

72 Re: Derby 3-0 Bolton on Sat Apr 07 2018, 19:55

Natasha Whittam

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
I don't get it. Of course Cecil is a man. A big man.

73 Re: Derby 3-0 Bolton on Sat Apr 07 2018, 22:56

Sluffy

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Admin
The goals if anyone is bothered -

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74 Re: Derby 3-0 Bolton on Sat Apr 07 2018, 23:05

karlypants

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
The first goal was absolutely shocking.

They might as well have all been reading the Beano.

75 Re: Derby 3-0 Bolton on Sat Apr 07 2018, 23:49

Sluffy

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Admin
karlypants wrote:The first goal was absolutely shocking.

They might as well have all been reading the Beano.

It might have something to do with reverting back to three at the back - I said before the game I didn't think this game was the right match to play it and it seems Parkinson regretted it himself by reverting to four at the back at half time - of course it was too late by then already being two nil down.

When playing three at the back the defenders usually mark zonally but more often mark the players directly in a normal back four rather than those who enter their 'zonal space' in three at the back - if you can understand what I'm trying to say.

If you analyse their first goal (after just 6 minutes!) Burke does seemed to have tracked the goal scorer and failed to get a challenge in, but if you care to notice immediately the goal is scored and the Derby players run off to celebrate, you will se a number of Wanderers players still rooted to the spot one of which is Wheater and if you play the clip back again and pay particular attention to him you will see that he wasn't marking anyone and missed (badly) in his attempt to cut out the cross which led to the goal.

It seems therefore you had one centre back (Wheater) presumably playing zonal marking and another centre back (Burke) presumably playing man marking.  Which kind of suggests that one of them wasn't on the same page as the other when it came to how to keep things tight at the back.

To be honest we didn't really expect to get a result at Derby and I guess the conspiracists amongst us might even think we rested players like Ameobi, Flanagan and Buckley (are you reading this Bonce!) for a more realistic chance of a result this coming Tuesday.

Disappointing run of recent games admittedly but we are not dead and buried yet - even though some would have us believe we are already relegated.

Where there is life there is hope they say and we still have it within our own grasp to secure our survival.

Keep the faith.

76 Re: Derby 3-0 Bolton on Sun Apr 08 2018, 00:22

xmiles

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Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo
Not seeing much evidence of life based on our performances in the last three matches. When you look at how Birmingham and Barnsley have performed recently I don't think our prospects are very good.

77 Re: Derby 3-0 Bolton on Sun Apr 08 2018, 00:31

Sluffy

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Admin
xmiles wrote:Not seeing much evidence of life based on our performances in the last three matches. When you look at how Birmingham and Barnsley have performed recently I don't think our prospects are very good.

You're right.

We might as well not bother turning up for our remaining games and forfeit them and accept relegation now.




Is that what you really want, or would you rather we still played the likes of Burton and Barnsley and see how the land lies after that?

I know which I prefer.

78 Re: Derby 3-0 Bolton on Sun Apr 08 2018, 01:07

xmiles

avatar
Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo
Sluffy wrote:
xmiles wrote:Not seeing much evidence of life based on our performances in the last three matches. When you look at how Birmingham and Barnsley have performed recently I don't think our prospects are very good.

You're right.

We might as well not bother turning up for our remaining games and forfeit them and accept relegation now.




Is that what you really want, or would you rather we still played the likes of Burton and Barnsley and see how the land lies after that?

I know which I prefer.


I want us to stay up but I think the odds are against us now. The Birmingham game was a massive turning point. Even a draw would have given us something but with the games left and the current form of Bolton, Birmingham and Barnsley it doesn't look good.

79 Re: Derby 3-0 Bolton on Sun Apr 08 2018, 10:34

boltonbonce

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Even Thogden found it hard to be positive.

80 Re: Derby 3-0 Bolton on Sun Apr 08 2018, 11:01

Natasha Whittam

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Sluffy wrote:It might have something to do with reverting back to three at the back - I said before the game I didn't think this game was the right match to play it and it seems Parkinson regretted it himself by reverting to four at the back at half time - of course it was too late by then already being two nil down.

When playing three at the back the defenders usually mark zonally but more often mark the players directly in a normal back four rather than those who enter their 'zonal space' in three at the back - if you can understand what I'm trying to say.

If you analyse their first goal (after just 6 minutes!) Burke does seemed to have tracked the goal scorer and failed to get a challenge in, but if you care to notice immediately the goal is scored and the Derby players run off to celebrate, you will se a number of Wanderers players still rooted to the spot one of which is Wheater and if you play the clip back again and pay particular attention to him you will see that he wasn't marking anyone and missed (badly) in his attempt to cut out the cross which led to the goal.

It seems therefore you had one centre back (Wheater) presumably playing zonal marking and another centre back (Burke) presumably playing man marking.  Which kind of suggests that one of them wasn't on the same page as the other when it came to how to keep things tight at the back.

To be honest we didn't really expect to get a result at Derby and I guess the conspiracists amongst us might even think we rested players like Ameobi, Flanagan and Buckley (are you reading this Bonce!) for a more realistic chance of a result this coming Tuesday.

Disappointing run of recent games admittedly but we are not dead and buried yet - even though some would have us believe we are already relegated.

Where there is life there is hope they say and we still have it within our own grasp to secure our survival.

Keep the faith.


All that from watching Soccer Saturday?

81 Re: Derby 3-0 Bolton on Sun Apr 08 2018, 11:35

T.R.O.Y


Tony Kelly
Tony Kelly
Sluffy wrote:

When playing three at the back the defenders usually mark zonally but more often mark the players directly in a normal back four rather than those who enter their 'zonal space' in three at the back - if you can understand what I'm trying to say.

Oh no, far too complex for us to understand that ..dunno...

Generally speaking a 3 man defence is a mixture of zonal and man marking as the ‘sweeper’ (presumably Wheater in this case) acts as a spare and should mark zonally while the other 2 man mark.

Clearly didn’t work as intended.

82 Re: Derby 3-0 Bolton on Sun Apr 08 2018, 12:03

Sluffy

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Admin
Natasha Whittam wrote:
Sluffy wrote:It might have something to do with reverting back to three at the back - I said before the game I didn't think this game was the right match to play it and it seems Parkinson regretted it himself by reverting to four at the back at half time - of course it was too late by then already being two nil down.

When playing three at the back the defenders usually mark zonally but more often mark the players directly in a normal back four rather than those who enter their 'zonal space' in three at the back - if you can understand what I'm trying to say.

If you analyse their first goal (after just 6 minutes!) Burke does seemed to have tracked the goal scorer and failed to get a challenge in, but if you care to notice immediately the goal is scored and the Derby players run off to celebrate, you will se a number of Wanderers players still rooted to the spot one of which is Wheater and if you play the clip back again and pay particular attention to him you will see that he wasn't marking anyone and missed (badly) in his attempt to cut out the cross which led to the goal.

It seems therefore you had one centre back (Wheater) presumably playing zonal marking and another centre back (Burke) presumably playing man marking.  Which kind of suggests that one of them wasn't on the same page as the other when it came to how to keep things tight at the back.

To be honest we didn't really expect to get a result at Derby and I guess the conspiracists amongst us might even think we rested players like Ameobi, Flanagan and Buckley (are you reading this Bonce!) for a more realistic chance of a result this coming Tuesday.

Disappointing run of recent games admittedly but we are not dead and buried yet - even though some would have us believe we are already relegated.

Where there is life there is hope they say and we still have it within our own grasp to secure our survival.

Keep the faith.


All that from watching Soccer Saturday?

Einstein worked out how the entire universe works from just his desk.

I'd wager that there were plenty at the match who would have seen the whole game yet could not tell you if our three central defenders played zonal or man marking at corners.

Probably many of them aren't even bothered what it was - but these are the things that are key on how effective, or not, football teams defences are.

A group of players, playing their own game in defence simply doesn't work at professional level, and that was the point I was simply trying to make, that chopping and changing from a flat back four to three at the back - man marking to zonal marking - can and no doubt does lead to errors and goals against - and that's why drilling players and ironing these things out on the training ground is not a five minute thing - and probably why it cost us the early goal yesterday.





83 Re: Derby 3-0 Bolton on Sun Apr 08 2018, 12:29

Sluffy

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Admin
T.R.O.Y wrote:
Sluffy wrote:

When playing three at the back the defenders usually mark zonally but more often mark the players directly in a normal back four rather than those who enter their 'zonal space' in three at the back - if you can understand what I'm trying to say.

Oh no, far too complex for us to understand that ..dunno...

Generally speaking a 3 man defence is a mixture of zonal and man marking as the ‘sweeper’ (presumably Wheater in this case) acts as a spare and should mark zonally while the other 2 man mark.

Clearly didn’t work as intended.

I wasn't being flippant as I'm sure you probably knew, I just thought I probably could have worded what I was attempting say more clearly but could not seem to find the words at the time.  

As for having a spare or 'sweeper' defender in a crowded penalty area - count the number of players in the penalty box at the time - 15 or more say - is an incredible amount of bodies to physically manoeuvre around to pick up any potential danger and virtually impossible to do effectively.  Spare defenders /sweepers normally operate in open play when they can see the whole pitch in front of them and thus spot the potential threats as they develop and thus can move to intercept them - unimpeded by a load of people in the way.

84 Re: Derby 3-0 Bolton on Sun Apr 08 2018, 12:49

T.R.O.Y


Tony Kelly
Tony Kelly
No spare defenders at set pieces are responsible for attacking the ball at corners, don’t know what point you’re trying to make about busy penalty areas. I’m just telling you why there’s a mixture of man marking and zonal marking in a back 3.



Last edited by T.R.O.Y on Sun Apr 08 2018, 13:19; edited 1 time in total

85 Re: Derby 3-0 Bolton on Sun Apr 08 2018, 13:19

Sluffy

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Admin
T.R.O.Y wrote:No spare defenders at set pieces are responsible for attacking the ball at corners, don’t know what point you’re trying to make about busy penalty areas. I’m just telling you why there’s a mixture of man marking and xo al marking in a back 3.

Because it is easy to attack and get to the ball if there is no one else in the way but a completely different story when a dozen or so other people are trying to get to it also (or stop others doing so).

As for the goal, Wheater was relatively miles away from the ball, I doubt he would have been so far away if there had only been him alone in the penalty area. I would hope so anyway.

86 Re: Derby 3-0 Bolton on Sun Apr 08 2018, 15:38

wanderlust

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Einstein's desk was less wooden than our defence TBH.
Parky started a back 3 to try to get the wingbacks forward more, confident that Wheater, Beevers and Burke could hold the fort. They were just not up to it and left too much space behind them, getting turned and done for pace too often. 
That's what happens when you make half of a plan.

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