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Parky - Hero to Zero

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1 Parky - Hero to Zero on Mon Apr 30 2018, 19:19

Bwfc1958

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Tinned Toms - You know it makes sense!
Parky is coming in for a whole world of abuse and criticism at the minute, but is it entirely justified? 

Despite the negative approach and inability to be tactically flexible, he's got to within touching distance of fulfilling the overall brief he was given when he walked through the door which was to get out of League one and survive in the championship.

At the start of last season, nobody gave us a chance of bouncing straight back up. He did it. 

At the start of this season, nobody gave us a chance of retaining championship status. If we beat forest and other results go our way, he'll have achieved that as well, from being in a position that no club in the history of the league has ever escaped from after 11 games.

All this whilst under a transfer embargo, having not one single penny to spend, having our best strikers in Clough and Madine sold from underneath him in consecutive January transfer windows with no adequate replacements lined up, potential administration and a ridiculous battle to buy the club between Ken and Deano and wages not being paid. He also turned Madine into a player we somehow managed to sell for the same amount of money as Gary Cahill and only Anelka has been sold for more money than that I think.

I agree that the way he's set us up recently has been negative to say the least and his ability to change games is questionable but fuck me, 90% of fans are ready to send him to the firing squad. Fair enough, a new manager and fresh ideas might be needed but at least show a little bit of respect for the guy in how he's handled this whole sorry mess that the club has got itself into. Does he not deserve at least that much?

2 Re: Parky - Hero to Zero on Mon Apr 30 2018, 19:36

boltonbonce

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
I pretty much agree. I knew we'd struggle this season,and there are many reasons why we're in this perilous situation,and we've all had our say on what they are.
He does,of course,need to take much of the blame,but I think some of the vitriol being thrown at him is a bit over the top.
His time might be up,but I'm not going to crucify the guy.
Look,the bloke three doors down from me died over the weekend,at 47,leaving two kids. There are worse things than relegation to League 1,so let's get over ourselves.
We're not down yet.

3 Re: Parky - Hero to Zero on Mon Apr 30 2018, 19:44

MartinBWFC

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El Hadji Diouf
El Hadji Diouf
He's got out of jail free if we manage to stay up, and had it not been for the teams in and around us blowing hot and cold we'd have been relegated several weeks ago, so in reality if we stay up it will be thanks to two more sides being worse than we've been, Parkinson gets no credit in mine and a lot of others eyes.

4 Re: Parky - Hero to Zero on Mon Apr 30 2018, 19:48

Sluffy

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Admin
Bwfc1958 wrote:Parky is coming in for a whole world of abuse and criticism at the minute, but is it entirely justified? 

Despite the negative approach and inability to be tactically flexible, he's got to within touching distance of fulfilling the overall brief he was given when he walked through the door which was to get out of League one and survive in the championship.

At the start of last season, nobody gave us a chance of bouncing straight back up. He did it. 

At the start of this season, nobody gave us a chance of retaining championship status. If we beat forest and other results go our way, he'll have achieved that as well, from being in a position that no club in the history of the league has ever escaped from after 11 games.

All this whilst under a transfer embargo, having not one single penny to spend, having our best strikers in Clough and Madine sold from underneath him in consecutive January transfer windows with no adequate replacements lined up, potential administration and a ridiculous battle to buy the club between Ken and Deano and wages not being paid. He also turned Madine into a player we somehow managed to sell for the same amount of money as Gary Cahill and only Anelka has been sold for more money than that I think.

I agree that the way he's set us up recently has been negative to say the least and his ability to change games is questionable but fuck me, 90% of fans are ready to send him to the firing squad. Fair enough, a new manager and fresh ideas might be needed but at least show a little bit of respect for the guy in how he's handled this whole sorry mess that the club has got itself into. Does he not deserve at least that much?

:clap:


Well said.

Parkinson's done bloody well considering we were 1,500 to 1 ON to go down at one point - and we still have the faintest of chances even now going into the final match - who would have thought that at the start of the season?

Yes he should have been braver and more positive towards the end of the season (but I suspect some of his team selections were probably forced on him towards the end - such as maybe Wheater really had a bonus clause for a set number of appearances - maybe others had various strings attached too?).

Even if he has been found wanting, he's done a sterling job considering the cards he was dealt - and he was by miles the best manager we could attract at the time we appointed him.

Some people really should be careful what they wish for because one day they might just get it and find out that it isn't as good as they thought it would be!

Megson was hated and people wanted Coyle instead and got their wish - that worked out really well didn't it?







5 Re: Parky - Hero to Zero on Mon Apr 30 2018, 19:50

T.R.O.Y


Tony Kelly
Tony Kelly
Good post 58, and 100% correct.

Said in January it would be a miracle if we stayed up, the fact we still have a chance last game of the season is down to other teams being shit, but is still to Parky’s credit to an extent. No team in the division is as ill equipped as us, both in terms of squad and investment.

6 Re: Parky - Hero to Zero on Mon Apr 30 2018, 19:52

Sluffy

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MartinBWFC wrote:He's got out of jail free if we manage to stay up, and had it not been for the teams in and around us blowing hot and cold we'd have been relegated several weeks ago, so in reality if we stay up it will be thanks to two more sides being worse than we've been, Parkinson gets no credit in mine and a lot of others eyes.

Eh???

Isn't that how relegation works, the worse teams get relegated and the teams that aren't the worst stay up?

7 Re: Parky - Hero to Zero on Mon Apr 30 2018, 19:58

Bwfc1958

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Tinned Toms - You know it makes sense!
Sluffy wrote:
MartinBWFC wrote:He's got out of jail free if we manage to stay up, and had it not been for the teams in and around us blowing hot and cold we'd have been relegated several weeks ago, so in reality if we stay up it will be thanks to two more sides being worse than we've been, Parkinson gets no credit in mine and a lot of others eyes.

Eh???

Isn't that how relegation works, the worse teams get relegated and the teams that aren't the worst stay up?

Exactly. I think Parky must have shagged Martin's wife or something. Never heard owt like it.

8 Re: Parky - Hero to Zero on Mon Apr 30 2018, 20:06

MartinBWFC

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El Hadji Diouf
El Hadji Diouf
Sluffy wrote:
Eh???

Isn't that how relegation works, the worse teams get relegated and the teams that aren't the worst stay up?

Fucking hell the Fuhrers woken up.

9 Re: Parky - Hero to Zero on Mon Apr 30 2018, 20:06

T.R.O.Y


Tony Kelly
Tony Kelly
MartinBWFC wrote:He's got out of jail free if we manage to stay up, and had it not been for the teams in and around us blowing hot and cold we'd have been relegated several weeks ago, so in reality if we stay up it will be thanks to two more sides being worse than we've been, Parkinson gets no credit in mine and a lot of others eyes.

Unfortunately, you’re delusional. 

You’ve claimed this squad is good enough to be mid table, and if you hold the manager to such high standards you’re only going to be disappointed.

10 Re: Parky - Hero to Zero on Mon Apr 30 2018, 20:18

DEANO82


Tony Kelly
Tony Kelly
We should have more points than we currently have. That we don't is down to the manager and his tactics. 

The fact we are still in with a chance of survival is because of Barnsley, Birmingham and Burton being equally as bad as us. If we do stay up then I guess it will be with the lowest points total to avoid relegation. I know Blackburn went down last season with 51 points.

11 Re: Parky - Hero to Zero on Mon Apr 30 2018, 20:21

T.R.O.Y


Tony Kelly
Tony Kelly
As I said in another thread, defensive tactics got us promoted last year and earned us every point we’ve won this year. There’s been little attack to speak of, so IMO to claim his tactics are what has cost us is incorrect.

12 Re: Parky - Hero to Zero on Mon Apr 30 2018, 20:26

Natasha Whittam

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
I agree with Martin that this team, as shit as it is, should still have finished mid-table. An average start and an average finish would have probably put us in the top half of the table.

The players have been awful. They can't even do the basics right. At some point they have been deemed good enough to be signed to a professional club, but on current form few would make it into a non-league team right now. They look unmotivated and unfit. That is solely down to the manager.

Add into the mix a scattergun attitude to team selection, players doing ok then being dropped, players doing fuck all but getting picked every week, negative tactics, no in game plan B, and often not even a plan A.

Parky is well paid, all the criticism is justified in my opinion. His team selection at Burton was shameful and handed the initiative to a team below us in the league. I just can't forgive him for that.

He has to go.

13 Re: Parky - Hero to Zero on Mon Apr 30 2018, 20:32

T.R.O.Y


Tony Kelly
Tony Kelly
Zero evidence that any of these players are mid table standard. Aside from Ameobi and Noone playing for an average Cardiff side (and not standing out), not one of the squad has played at that level in the past 3 years. There is no evidence to say they should be there.

Could Parky get more out of them? Of course, managers can get teams to over perform. But we’re down there for more reason than the manager. Where’s the criticism of Ken?

14 Re: Parky - Hero to Zero on Mon Apr 30 2018, 20:34

Natasha Whittam

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
T.R.O.Y wrote:Zero evidence that any of these players are mid table standard. Aside from Ameobi and Noone playing for an average Cardiff side (and not standing out), not one of the squad has played at that level in the past 3 years. There is no evidence to say they should be there.

Could Parky get more out of them? Of course, managers can get teams to over perform. But we’re down there for more reason than the manager. Where’s the criticism of Ken?

As I've said, an average start and finish and we're mid-table, regardless of how you view the players.

Millwall finished 10 points behind us last season, and probably 30 ahead of us this season. They adapted, we didn't.

15 Re: Parky - Hero to Zero on Mon Apr 30 2018, 20:41

T.R.O.Y


Tony Kelly
Tony Kelly
It doesn't matter about average starts/finishes, it's about the season as a whole and we've been the second worse team this season so far. Sunderland should be mid table with some of the names in that squad, but us? I'd have us as the worst squad in the league personally.

Millwall attracted players we couldn't (do you know why we signed Darby? Because we couldn't beat Millwalls offer for Meredith), they spent more than us and they have a manger who's got them over performing (Harris has been brilliant).

16 Re: Parky - Hero to Zero on Mon Apr 30 2018, 20:47

Natasha Whittam

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
T.R.O.Y wrote:It doesn't matter about average starts/finishes

Of course it does. It's a fact. An average start would have us mid-table.

So Millwall finished 30 points ahead of us because they signed one player we wanted?

The simple fact is they have a good manager, a settled team, and most importantly, a team work ethic.

They don't punt the ball towards a 5'8'' striker either.

17 Re: Parky - Hero to Zero on Mon Apr 30 2018, 20:48

Natasha Whittam

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
T.R.O.Y wrote:Sunderland should be mid table with some of the names in that squad, but us?

You say that, but somewhere on Sunderland Nuts will be a load of posters saying their team is absolute shite and the players fecking useless.

18 Re: Parky - Hero to Zero on Mon Apr 30 2018, 20:49

Sluffy

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Natasha Whittam wrote:
T.R.O.Y wrote:Zero evidence that any of these players are mid table standard. Aside from Ameobi and Noone playing for an average Cardiff side (and not standing out), not one of the squad has played at that level in the past 3 years. There is no evidence to say they should be there.

Could Parky get more out of them? Of course, managers can get teams to over perform. But we’re down there for more reason than the manager. Where’s the criticism of Ken?

As I've said, an average start and finish and we're mid-table, regardless of how you view the players.

I think that's possibly fair comment but I suspect it was never actually attainable.

I strongly suspect that we got caught out with a harsher embargo that we didn't bargain for at the start of the season, leading to us not having Spearing resigned - or even having a single defensive midfielder in the squad until the embargo was finally 'announced' to have been lifted and we were able to bring Henry in. At the time we had just 2 points from 9 games - and we lost the next two also whilst Henry was getting up to speed.

As for the end of our season I again suspect that money and players contract clauses came into play as random and bizarre selections seemed to occur every week towards the end - almost as though we were 'forced' into NOT playing certain people at times.

Just my view of things.

Parkinson should have been braver and more positive towards the end, even with whatever players he had left to field but if we had held on to the win against Barnsley and managed a draw against Burton we probably wouldn't even be having this conversation and Parkinson would probably be seen as achieving the impossible in keeping us up.



19 Re: Parky - Hero to Zero on Mon Apr 30 2018, 20:50

T.R.O.Y


Tony Kelly
Tony Kelly
Nat, I agree with all of that except the second line - Meredith is just a good example of how limited PP has been. He deserves criticism for the collapse of defensive solidity (and in turn organisation), and that’s what will take us down.

20 Re: Parky - Hero to Zero on Mon Apr 30 2018, 20:52

Natasha Whittam

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Don't start sluffy. You promised me we were staying up. You promised!!

I had 1000 'WE ARE STAYING UP' t-shirts made up on the back of your declaration.

You've made me look like a right knob.

21 Re: Parky - Hero to Zero on Mon Apr 30 2018, 20:53

Sluffy

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Admin
Natasha Whittam wrote:Don't start sluffy. You promised me we were staying up. You promised!!

I had 1000 'WE ARE STAYING UP' t-shirts made up on the back of your declaration.

You've made me look like a right knob.

We haven't been relegated yet!


22 Re: Parky - Hero to Zero on Mon Apr 30 2018, 20:59

Bwfc1958

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Tinned Toms - You know it makes sense!
How anyone can say that this bunch of players are good enough to have finished mid table is beyond me. Don't get me wrong, Parky should take his fair share of the blame but taking the Burton game as an example, we had 9 shots off target. He's not taken them out onto the training ground and coached them to shoot like a pub team. Just like the manager, they're well paid professionals. Shoot 5 of them on target rather than over the roof and there's a chance you score a couple of goals. Players take equal blame for me.

23 Re: Parky - Hero to Zero on Mon Apr 30 2018, 21:06

Natasha Whittam

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Bwfc1958 wrote:How anyone can say that this bunch of players are good enough to have finished mid table is beyond me.

It's more that the rest of the teams are full of shit players too.

How many teams have impressed you at the Macron this season? Wolves, Fulham & Brentford for me. The rest were bobbins.

24 Re: Parky - Hero to Zero on Mon Apr 30 2018, 21:27

Reebok Trotter

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
I went to Burton on Saturday and I was amazed at the line-up. Dervite in place of Wheater? when he has hardly played all season. No place for Tony Robinson at full-back even though he's been one of our better defenders going forward. It's as if Parky went there for a point! Why not put Morais on from the start as well? It's pointless punting the high ball up in the air to Le Fondre because he just isn't tall enough to cope with opposing centre halves. I thought Burton had much more about them and wanted it more. It shows how far we have fallen when a team like Burton beat us home and away. Yes, the lack of money has hindered us in the transfer market but other teams manage to make a better go of it with limited funds. Millwall haven't spent much and yet they look miles better than us.

25 Re: Parky - Hero to Zero on Mon Apr 30 2018, 21:32

T.R.O.Y


Tony Kelly
Tony Kelly
Natasha Whittam wrote:
How many teams have impressed you at the Macron this season? Wolves, Fulham & Brentford for me. The rest were bobbins.

That’s down to PP’s spoiling tactics.

26 Re: Parky - Hero to Zero on Tue May 01 2018, 08:45

Norpig

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
I've said this many times on here, yes he deserves credit for last season and after the start we had to still be in with even a small chance of staying up but that's where it ends. 
The constant negative football, setting us up not to lose rather than looking to win (even when Madine was still here). Couple that with him having no tactical nous as far as i can see, every sub he makes is a straight swap, he never alters the way the team play or the shape.
The constant swapping of the team as well, why bring back Dervite and why keep changing the full backs every game? He still doesn't have a clue what his strongest line up is and the season is over on Sunday!
After Sunday whether we stay up or not i would say thanks Parky you've done a decent job in difficult circumstances, but we need a big change. He is driving away loyal fans by the bucketload with his tactics and plenty of people will not renew their season ticket if he is still there next season



Last edited by Norpig on Tue May 01 2018, 11:16; edited 1 time in total

27 Re: Parky - Hero to Zero on Tue May 01 2018, 11:12

okocha

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Tony Kelly
Tony Kelly
No topic is ever black and white, and there's an element of truth in all the posts here.....but I do think 58's opening message was excellent.

28 Re: Parky - Hero to Zero on Tue May 01 2018, 11:29

Bwfc1958

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Tinned Toms - You know it makes sense!
Norpig wrote:After Sunday whether we stay up or not i would say thanks Parky you've done a decent job in difficult circumstances, but we need a big change.
And this pretty much encapsulates the point I was making. I'm not saying he's a tactical genius, I'm not even suggesting he should stay on as manager. What I'm saying is that the man should be thanked for giving it his best shot. Not get attacked in the dugout and chased out of town with pitchforks. As Bonce mentioned earlier, some of the vitriol being directed towards him is ridiculous.

29 Re: Parky - Hero to Zero on Tue May 01 2018, 11:34

Natasha Whittam

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Bwfc1958 wrote:And this pretty much encapsulates the point I was making. I'm not saying he's a tactical genius, I'm not even suggesting he should stay on as manager. What I'm saying is that the man should be thanked for giving it his best shot. Not get attacked in the dugout and chased out of town with pitchforks. As Bonce mentioned earlier, some of the vitriol being directed towards him is ridiculous.

Do people still have pitchforks?

30 Re: Parky - Hero to Zero on Tue May 01 2018, 11:41

Norpig

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
They do in Preston

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