Bolton Wanderers Football Club Fan Forum for all BWFC Supporters.


You are not connected. Please login or register

Economy watch

+19
Copper Dragon
Bwfc1958
Bread2.0
bwfc71
karlypants
Norpig
Reebok Trotter
Chairmanda
xmiles
Sluffy
Bollotom2014
boltonbonce
whatsgoingon
Natasha Whittam
okocha
scottjames30
NickFazer
gloswhite
wanderlust
23 posters

Go to page : Previous  1 ... 8 ... 12, 13, 14 ... 17 ... 22  Next

Go down  Message [Page 13 of 22]

241Economy watch - Page 13 Empty Re: Economy watch Tue Aug 30 2016, 22:04

Guest


Guest

They'll be under pressure from Apple to make this go away. Tax law needs to change to account for Multi nationals, Apple paying basically all of their EU earned tax in Ireland is ridiculous.

242Economy watch - Page 13 Empty Re: Economy watch Tue Aug 30 2016, 22:13

NickFazer

NickFazer
El Hadji Diouf
El Hadji Diouf

So the central beaurocracy would be better off improving its tax laws than trying to collect tax retrospectively.

243Economy watch - Page 13 Empty Re: Economy watch Tue Aug 30 2016, 22:18

whatsgoingon

whatsgoingon
Frank Worthington
Frank Worthington

Agree with that, basically by offering preferential rates Ireland has secured 90% of Apples overseas profits so all the EU countries where Apple operate we no tax and Ireland gets a small percentage of a fucking fortune at everyone else's expense.
Once those preferred rates have gone there is no benefit to Apple to funnel everything through Ireland so they won't.
Another reason they'll want it to go away is the scale of the whole thing will become apparent and Ireland will be left looking like a corrupt self serving entity which will damage their reputation amongst other EU states.
Another potential problem is a hunt for other companies with similar deals IBM and Dell spring to mind as potential candidates.

244Economy watch - Page 13 Empty Re: Economy watch Tue Aug 30 2016, 22:33

Guest


Guest

NickFazer wrote:So the central beaurocracy would be better off improving its tax laws than trying to collect tax retrospectively.

Which they are doing, not a quick process though and one that's far easier to impose from a block rather than as a lone country.

http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_IP-16-1349_en.htm

245Economy watch - Page 13 Empty Re: Economy watch Tue Aug 30 2016, 22:43

NickFazer

NickFazer
El Hadji Diouf
El Hadji Diouf

So, although what Apple has done maybe unfair or immoral even, it probably hasn't done anything illegal? Surely you would only go to court if there was a case to answer and if there is then is the ROI in for punishment

246Economy watch - Page 13 Empty Re: Economy watch Tue Aug 30 2016, 22:53

Guest


Guest

It's illegal to be party to a deal that is deemed 'state aid', Basically the Irish Government have given Apple an advantage over its competitors. Changes to EU regulation this year made it easier to uncover that.

Reactions to this highlights a key difference between Leave and Remain IMO, leavers see EU wide regulations and policy almost exclusively as inteference to our sovereignty, whereas I'd say acting as a block to tackle abuses by multi national organisations is a necessity in a globalised world. Same goes for workers rights, they're maintained because all member states are bound by the same law so companies in the market are forced to comply. Make no mistake the big companies will be lobbying hard for reductions in 'red tape' to make their lives easier in Britain post Brexit.

247Economy watch - Page 13 Empty Re: Economy watch Wed Aug 31 2016, 00:09

xmiles

xmiles
Jay Jay Okocha
Jay Jay Okocha

NickFazer wrote:Ok. I will try although in your opinion I am most likely poor, xenophobic, ignorant and a racist, comments for the record that are extremely offensive and are of a similar tone you accuse "Brexit fans" of.



1. how is voting the way the owners of the Times, Sun, Daily Mail, Telegraph, Boris and Farage want voting against the establishment?

It isn't, the press, the media in general and Messrs Johnson and Farage are as much establishment as those advocating Remain there could not be an anti-establishment vote. The anti establishment veiw would be towards those perceived to have ignored /disenfranchised them, the Old School Tie brigade in Cameron and Osbourne, a former Labour leader whom has squirmed his way through the inquiry into the Iraq war and enriched himself greatly in the process, the money men who brought the economy to its knees but have sailed on serenely since, bankers, and theIMF, leaders of "Big Business" Richard Brandon et al and also and the entitled, celebrities with their self centred reasons for maintaining the status quo to enable them to flit effortlessly around Europe. Bob Geldoff, especially his stunt on the Thames with his Luvvie pals abusing fisherman and glugging champagne did the Remain cause some damage on the ITN and BBC News bulletins. These aren't my personal views, despicable though some of these people are but I don't doubt that those mentioned were the ones anyone wanting to stick two fingers up to the establishment had in mind.

2. how likely is it that voting the way they want you to is going to be good for most people in this country? It is no more likely or unlikely than if we remain. The argument can never be proved as we will never know what the future would have held if we had stayed in, it is a ridiculous question as Leavers obviously see a brighter future outside and Remainers inside. What should have happened is that there should have been a sensible debate by those in a position to put over their view, in language that the general public could understand, in the absence of that most people considered there own position just as you would at a General Election. The predominant view on here appears to be that Boris and the Leave campaign had a large influence on the poorer and less enlightened to vote leave with falsehoods and to a degree that is true, to what extent nobody knows but the influence of "Project Fear" for want of a better phrase and how many may have been influenced by that is hardly mentioned. My own outlook is that economically over the medium to long term it will be of slight benefit, being free of the Euro has enabled us to effect something of a recovery as is and plenty of countries manage to trade perfectly well with the Eurozone and EU from outside the EU, EEA and even EFTA. In addition the economic performance of the EU has been disappointing for a long time and as it's institutions and beaurocracy stifle innovation and discourage growth the UK will not need to achieve stellar growth to outperform the EU.

3. do you honestly believe that a UK outside the EU is going to be more likely to stand up to big business, protect workers' rights and look after the environment?

Big business - No the EU in theory at least has more clout and it will be interesting to see how the get on with the case against Apple but this will be a long  protracted case so we will have to wait for the outcome, interesting though that Ireland doesn't want this to go ahead. All government's across the world have this problem not just in Europe or the UK and as long as tax havens and off shore accounts exist then they will be taken advantage of, unless Apple have done something illegal as opposed to immoral then this may come to nothing.

The Environment - The EU has done many good things in this area and it would be a shame if a lot of good work was to come undone but it is not an unqualified success, there is an argument, not sure if it true or not that we are no longer allowed to dredge rivers and estuary's which has been blamed for some of the floods in recent years. On leaving we will have to look to pressure and special interest groups to keep the government on the straight an narrow. In any case there is no reason why we have to stop co-operating on such matters just because we are no longer members same would apply to science and research organisations.

Workers Rights - Workers rights, existing ones are already enshrined in law and although you wouldn't put it past government to fancy reworking them on occasion they have got to do legally and they can be challenged. Ultimately I believe that workers rights are a matter for national governments, it is precisely this obsession of having Europe wide legislation that has to apply to all weather it is appropriate or not that has got EU in such a state as it finds itself today. Besides being in the EU has not stopped zero hours contracts and other piss takes over the years but has made it practically impossible for Eurozone companies to shed staff when necessary and as a result they are reluctant to take on staff, hence high unemployment and stagnant growth.

Anyhoo, that's my two cents, off out now for six pints of white lightening and to abuse some ethnic minorities.

Thanks Nick. Enjoy your white lightening!

248Economy watch - Page 13 Empty Re: Economy watch Wed Aug 31 2016, 12:25

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

Governments tend to think that having to pay out unemployment benefit is more expensive than tax revenues. In the UK Apple employ around 400 people directly at the moment but the operation in Ireland has started to ramp up in case UK decides to leave the single market as well as the EU.

Obviously foreign investors come to the UK because once here they have free access to the whole of Europe and don't have to pay the import tariffs.

If the UK remains in the single market - which we need to do economically - then they will continue to use the UK as their base and the Government will do tax deals with them - effectively paying big foreign investors to keep the unemployment figures down.

But the Brits voted for autonomy from Europe and the ability to set an Australian style immigration points system (according to UKIP) however, the EU are refusing to allow us to stay in the single market unless we accept freedom of movement - so there is an impasse at the moment.

So when the Government are finally forced to tell Leave voters that the truth about the single market - and there is an outcry for either pulling out (which we haven't voted on and the Government has no mandate to deliver) or a second EU referendum (which nobody wants) I imagine that Boris will be scurrying around offering Apple, Microsoft, Boeing, Starbuck's and anyone who will create jobs in the UK massive tax incentives to come/stay here.

We don't tax American businesses any more because we are dependent on them.

249Economy watch - Page 13 Empty Re: Economy watch Wed Aug 31 2016, 15:47

NickFazer

NickFazer
El Hadji Diouf
El Hadji Diouf

250Economy watch - Page 13 Empty Re: Economy watch Wed Aug 31 2016, 17:29

Guest


Guest

Agreed Nick, the IMF and wider EU's handling of Greece has been appalling. But that's an entirely separate issue from Apple's tax payments isn't it? Surely you can admit that a block of countries is better equipped to deal with abuses like this than a lone state? 

Not saying it should change your overall vote of leave but that's blatant isn't it?

251Economy watch - Page 13 Empty Re: Economy watch Wed Aug 31 2016, 17:45

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin

I thought this was interesting read over the Apple tax avoidance issue - a sort of who runs the world, governments or multinationals -

Analysis: Dominic O'Connell, Today business presenter

The current focus is on the size of the bill, but there are even larger issues at stake, including one fundamental question - who really runs the world, governments or giant corporations?

At present, it is difficult to tell. Individual governments appear impotent in their attempts to apply their tax laws to multinationals like Apple. They have systems designed to deal with the movement and sale of physical goods, systems that are useless when companies derive their profits from the sale of services and the exploitation of intellectual property.

In Apple's case, 90% of its foreign profits are legally channelled to Ireland, and then to subsidiaries which have no tax residence. At the same time, countries can scarcely afford not to co-operate when Apple comes calling; it has a stock market value of $600bn, and the attraction of the jobs it can create and the extra inward investment its favours can bring are too much for most politicians to resist.

There is an echo here of the tycoons of the early 20th Century who bestrode America. Andrew Carnegie, Cornelius Vanderbilt and John Rockefeller were judged so powerful that they were almost above the law, something that successive US administrations sought to curb.

The European Commission's attempt to bring Apple to heel is on the surface about tax, but in the end about the power of the multinational and the power of the state. There is more to come; Margrethe Vestager, the Danish commissioner who is leading the charge against Apple, is warming up to take on Google.

Europe versus the giants of corporate America will be a battle royale, and one that will run and run

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-37220799

252Economy watch - Page 13 Empty Re: Economy watch Wed Aug 31 2016, 18:48

xmiles

xmiles
Jay Jay Okocha
Jay Jay Okocha

And who would you rather won?

Interesting that until recently American politicians were attacking Apple because it pays so little US tax and has absolutely massive cash reserves stashed in tax havens but now that the EU is challenging Apple suddenly that becomes an attack on America.

253Economy watch - Page 13 Empty Re: Economy watch Wed Aug 31 2016, 19:04

NickFazer

NickFazer
El Hadji Diouf
El Hadji Diouf

Yes I agree that blocks of countries can cooperate in  all all manner of things more effectively than one nation by itself, I just don't think that you need to create a superstate with a single currency, a parliament, a commission, a president, several presidents actually and a court of justice to achieve it. Its a difficult road to go down, especially when the member nations are so culturally and  economically diverse.



Last edited by NickFazer on Wed Aug 31 2016, 19:15; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Predictive freaking text)

254Economy watch - Page 13 Empty Re: Economy watch Wed Aug 31 2016, 20:47

Guest


Guest

NickFazer wrote:Yes I agree that blocks of countries can cooperate in  all all manner of things more effectively than one nation by itself, I just don't think that you need to create a superstate with a single currency, a parliament, a commission, a president, several presidents actually and a court of justice to achieve it. Its a difficult road to go down, especially when the member nations are so culturally and  economically diverse.

I'd argue a parliament, commission and court of justice are necessary if you want to have a cooperation between countries, decisions need to be taken and made in some form of centralised government.

255Economy watch - Page 13 Empty Re: Economy watch Thu Sep 01 2016, 19:56

NickFazer

NickFazer
El Hadji Diouf
El Hadji Diouf

That very much depends on the length and breadth of the cooperation, there is a need in the EU as it is more about integration than cooperation.

256Economy watch - Page 13 Empty Re: Economy watch Thu Sep 01 2016, 20:00

NickFazer

NickFazer
El Hadji Diouf
El Hadji Diouf

TTIP talks look like failing, 4 or 5 years of negotiating up to now. Both sides will blame each other of course but I believe the US can be particularly difficult negotiators.

257Economy watch - Page 13 Empty Re: Economy watch Thu Sep 01 2016, 20:44

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

It's interesting that when human civilisation reaches the "Golden Age" where the world has more equality, freedom, wealth, food, commerce, knowledge and options than at any time in history the MOU and agreements that got us here are being ripped up all over the world. There's something in the air for sure and I suspect the USA is becoming more insular.

258Economy watch - Page 13 Empty Re: Economy watch Thu Sep 01 2016, 20:45

NickFazer

NickFazer
El Hadji Diouf
El Hadji Diouf

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2016/08/31/apple-travesty-is-a-reminder-why-britain-must-leave-the-lawless/

May be why TTIP talks aren't going well, seems the US seriously not happy with Brussels.

259Economy watch - Page 13 Empty Re: Economy watch Thu Sep 01 2016, 21:10

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

NickFazer wrote:http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2016/08/31/apple-travesty-is-a-reminder-why-britain-must-leave-the-lawless/

May be why TTIP talks aren't going well, seems the US seriously not happy with Brussels.
Telegraph makes me laugh the way Brussels is depicted and described as a Bond villain about to commit a murder, but I get the impression that the USA is seriously not happy with anyone and they might just upset the applecart especially if Trump gets elected. Then they'll eventually realise that they have to be in the game to win it by which time there'll be some furious diplomacy spikes.

260Economy watch - Page 13 Empty Re: Economy watch Thu Sep 01 2016, 22:28

Guest


Guest

NickFazer wrote:TTIP talks look like failing, 4 or 5 years of negotiating up to now. Both sides will blame each other of course but I believe the US can be particularly difficult negotiators.

Thank god they look like failing, would have been an absolute disaster for democracy to give companies such power over governments.

Sponsored content



Back to top  Message [Page 13 of 22]

Go to page : Previous  1 ... 8 ... 12, 13, 14 ... 17 ... 22  Next

Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum