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Brexit - A new twist!

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boltonbonce
wessy
wanderlust
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whatsgoingon
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xmiles
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211Brexit - A new twist! - Page 12 Empty Re: Brexit - A new twist! Tue Feb 28 2017, 13:13

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

okocha wrote:Wanderlust: take your pick from the articles below and then tell us that you know better. You are beginning to resemble Trump in your denials of facts!


'Brexit' could trigger World War Three, warns David Cameron - Mirror ...




www.mirror.co.uk › News › UK News › EU Referendum
9 May 2016 - Mr Cameron told pro-EU campaigners: "Can we be so sure peace ... no plans for Brexit - despite David Cameron claiming it could trigger war.


David Cameron: Brexit could lead to Europe descending into war




www.telegraph.co.uk › News

[list="margin-right: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-left: 0px; border: 0px;"]
[*]www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05/08/cameron-brexit-will-increase-risk-of-europe-descending-into-war/+&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">
[/list]

Is David Cameron right that leaving EU could increase the risk of war ...




https://www.theguardian.com › World › Foreign policy
9 May 2016 - PM has raised spectre of conflict to support case for UK remaining in EU. We look at whether his claims stand up to scrutiny.



David Cameron warns Brexit would lead to war and genocide | Daily ...




www.dailymail.co.uk/.../Now-Cameron-warns-Brexit-lead-war-genocide-PM-s-extraordi...
8 May 2016 - Dire warning: David Cameron will deliver a dramatic speech that will .... Professor David Abulafia, have dismissed the claim that the EU has ...


EU referendum: Cameron says UK exit could put peace at risk - BBC ...




www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36243296


[list="margin-right: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-left: 0px; border: 0px;"]
[*]www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36243296+&cd=6&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">
[/list]

9 May 2016 - David Cameron says peace could be put at risk by leaving the European ... During the course of political campaigns the claims being made on ...

Cameron's Latest Desperate Threat: Vote Remain Or Get World War III




www.breitbart.com/.../camerons-latest-desperate-stunt-leave-europe-get-third-world-w...


9 May 2016 - Cameron's Latest Desperate Threat: Vote Remain Or Get World War III ... Claim: Winston Churchill would have campaigned to Remain ... Germany will invade France and WW3 will start, we will be unable to trade with Europe, ...



EU referendum: David Cameron says 'Brexit' could spark World War III ...




www.dailyrecord.co.uk › News › Politics › European Union
9 May 2016 - EU referendum: David Cameron says 'Brexit' could spark World War III .... Vote Leave said "claims that leaving the EU and taking back control ...


...and not a single one of them came from Cameron's lips. None. Zero. Zilch.

Read what he actually said and not what the hacks make up.

The only fact you've quoted is that journalists put their own words into Cameron's mouth in order to create the headline.

Can't you see it?


I'll ask you again. Show me just one quote where Cameron actually says Brexit could spark World War 3 as you claim he did.

Not a newspaper headline invented by a journo. A quote from Cameron actually saying it.

You got anything or are you just going to continue quoting hacks as if they have anything to do with the truth or the facts?

212Brexit - A new twist! - Page 12 Empty Re: Brexit - A new twist! Tue Feb 28 2017, 14:49

Copper Dragon

Copper Dragon
Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo

What Cameron said was........

The truth is this, what happens in our neighbourhood matters to Britain.
That was true in 1914, in 1940 and in 1989. Or, you could add 1588, 1704 and 1815... And if things go wrong in Europe, let's not pretend we can be immune from the consequences.


The European Union has helped reconcile countries which were once at each others’ throats for decades. Britain has a fundamental national interest in maintaining common purpose in Europe to avoid future conflict between European countries.


So no he didn't mention a World War 3, but he did his politician speak to say... pulling out of the EU could cause future conflict in Europe.

213Brexit - A new twist! - Page 12 Empty Re: Brexit - A new twist! Tue Feb 28 2017, 14:58

xmiles

xmiles
Jay Jay Okocha
Jay Jay Okocha

So Cameron never mentioned WW3 and what he said was actually reasonable.

Now let's compare that to actual lies spouted by the brexiteers starting with Gisela Stuart:

"Every week we send £350m to Brussels.

I'd rather that we control how to spend that money, and if I had that control I would spend it on the NHS".

Now that the brexiteers have control how much of that £350m is going to be spent on the NHS?

214Brexit - A new twist! - Page 12 Empty Re: Brexit - A new twist! Tue Feb 28 2017, 15:05

Copper Dragon

Copper Dragon
Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo

I think that it was established long ago that there was a campaign of bullshit from both sides.

However I can't see any lies (as yet) in what Gisela Stuart said, and neither can I see her in control of anything.

215Brexit - A new twist! - Page 12 Empty Re: Brexit - A new twist! Tue Feb 28 2017, 15:15

xmiles

xmiles
Jay Jay Okocha
Jay Jay Okocha

I can't dispute your point about bullshit on both sides but I have a particular problem with the £350m claim. This is a classic case of framing. The brexit camp knew full well that this was the gross weekly contribution to the EU and that most of it came back in various ways from the EU. Yet they carried on pretending that it was the correct figure and that they would spend this money on the NHS. Literally as soon as thjey won they denied that they had said this - see for example IDS denying it on Good Morning Britain:

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjj3oSlirPSAhVqDMAKHai1DM4QFggeMAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mirror.co.uk%2Fnews%2Fuk-news%2Fiain-duncan-smith-backtracks-over-8285234&usg=AFQjCNH-7auYyEE1tVAd-iec5ALs8PgSqw&sig2=-F6PQZKEFw0XICoqr96qlw

216Brexit - A new twist! - Page 12 Empty Re: Brexit - A new twist! Tue Feb 28 2017, 15:22

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

Copper Dragon wrote:What Cameron said was........

The truth is this, what happens in our neighbourhood matters to Britain. TRUE
That was true in 1914, in 1940 and in 1989. Or, you could add 1588, 1704 and 1815... And if things go wrong in Europe, let's not pretend we can be immune from the consequences. TRUE


The European Union has helped reconcile countries which were once at each others’ throats for decades. TRUE Britain has a fundamental national interest in maintaining common purpose in Europe to avoid future conflict between European countries. TRUE


So no he didn't mention a World War 3, but he did his politician speak to say... pulling out of the EU could cause future conflict in Europe.
You're getting it Stan. He didn't ever mention WW3 apart from in his rebuttal but the papers (and Okocha) said he did.

I totally disagree with the spin that was put on his words though. The way I understood it was that being in the EU;
1) acts as a buffer from potential problems - effectively pushing the UKs boundaries away from our shores
2) reduces the chance of conflict amongst our near neighbours - unlikely largely because the EU...
3) has been a catalyst in improving relationships amongst EU countries 

...all of which is true.

It wasn't "politician speak" as you call it, but "media speak" as it was the media that put that particular spin on his words and blew them up into something else.

217Brexit - A new twist! - Page 12 Empty Re: Brexit - A new twist! Tue Feb 28 2017, 15:28

RustyNail


Nicky Hunt
Nicky Hunt

I work in the criminal justice system and so when I voted out I did it because I firmly believe we should be able to pick and choose who we want in the country.
The crime figures are disproportional for people from certain countries. For example, there are loads of polish people in Bolton yet I have only had a couple on my books in the past 4 years. Yet I have had dozens of Romanian and Hungarians, even though they are here in much smaller numbers.

This isnt relevant to brexit but a lot of people have criticised the amount of refugees we took from Syria. However, Asian and\or muslim male sex offenders, again the figures are massively disproportional to the population. These are facts not opinion.

I barely heard a single decent argument during the months of debate before the vote so I have based my opinion on my own knowledge of crime figures which show that certain nationalities are committing far more crimes than others. Why would you want them in the country?

218Brexit - A new twist! - Page 12 Empty Re: Brexit - A new twist! Tue Feb 28 2017, 15:33

Norpig

Norpig
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

The Poles do seem to be getting a hard time at the moment which is very unfair as from my personal experience they are very hard working

Did anyone see the Panorama programme about Slough last night? All the business owners interviewed were worried that they will end up losing their foreign workers as they rely on them greatly and said they have a better work ethic than the locals!

219Brexit - A new twist! - Page 12 Empty Re: Brexit - A new twist! Tue Feb 28 2017, 15:45

RustyNail


Nicky Hunt
Nicky Hunt

I've known loads of people who have worked with poles and they can't speak highly enough about them. Clearly from what I see they come to work and I don't see how anyone can have a problem with that.

Other nationalities come to commit crime and try claim ESA due to 'anxiety and depression' and that is where I and others have a problem.

220Brexit - A new twist! - Page 12 Empty Re: Brexit - A new twist! Tue Feb 28 2017, 16:04

Copper Dragon

Copper Dragon
Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo

Norpig wrote:The Poles do seem to be getting a hard time at the moment which is very unfair as from my personal experience they are very hard working

Did anyone see the Panorama programme about Slough last night? All the business owners interviewed were worried that they will end up losing their foreign workers as they rely on them greatly and said they have a better work ethic than the locals!


To be fair if the Slough locals moved to say Krakow where they could get four times the money than they could back at home, then their work ethic would be better.

221Brexit - A new twist! - Page 12 Empty Re: Brexit - A new twist! Tue Feb 28 2017, 16:09

Norpig

Norpig
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

i'm not so sure Copper, we are going to have a real problem with trying to get the dossers in this country to do these low paid jobs that are being done by immigrants, they see it as being beneath them

I'd much rather have someone from abroad such as a Pole coming here and getting a job, contributing and paying taxes than the career dole underclass we have in this country who have never done a days work and probably never will

222Brexit - A new twist! - Page 12 Empty Re: Brexit - A new twist! Tue Feb 28 2017, 16:36

xmiles

xmiles
Jay Jay Okocha
Jay Jay Okocha

RustyNail wrote:I work in the criminal justice system and so when I voted out I did it because I firmly believe we should be able to pick and choose who we want in the country.
The crime figures are disproportional for people from certain countries. For example, there are loads of polish people in Bolton yet I have only had a couple on my books in the past 4 years. Yet I have had dozens of Romanian and Hungarians, even though they are here in much smaller numbers.

This isnt relevant to brexit but a lot of people have criticised the amount of refugees we took from Syria. However, Asian and\or muslim male sex offenders, again the figures are massively disproportional to the population. These are facts not opinion.

I barely heard a single decent argument during the months of debate before the vote so I have based my opinion on my own knowledge of crime figures which show that certain nationalities are committing far more crimes than others. Why would you want them in the country?

I can't really follow your logic on this Rusty. You say you based your vote on your knowledge of crime figures and yet you say that "Asian and\or muslim male sex offenders, again the figures are massively disproportional to the population." But as you surely know these people are immigrants from countries NOT in the EU and I very much doubt that many of them are from Syria.

223Brexit - A new twist! - Page 12 Empty Re: Brexit - A new twist! Tue Feb 28 2017, 17:13

gloswhite

gloswhite
Guðni Bergsson
Guðni Bergsson

Glos: unemployment figures are expressed as a percentage of the working population so the total number is irrelevant.
This may be true, but in reality, I actually remember there being a real choice of jobs when I was younger, rather than have anything from 20 to 200 people applying for each one, as it is nowadays.

224Brexit - A new twist! - Page 12 Empty Re: Brexit - A new twist! Tue Feb 28 2017, 17:37

boltonbonce

boltonbonce
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

I remember going to the Youth Employment office in Farnworth,where I was asked,'What would you like to do?'
Had a huge choice at the time. If I didn't like one job,I could go back and try something else.
Seems crazy when I look back.

225Brexit - A new twist! - Page 12 Empty Re: Brexit - A new twist! Tue Feb 28 2017, 18:00

Cajunboy

Cajunboy
Frank Worthington
Frank Worthington

Are you a bus driver?


No, I've never had a Chip Shop.

226Brexit - A new twist! - Page 12 Empty Re: Brexit - A new twist! Tue Feb 28 2017, 18:07

boltonbonce

boltonbonce
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

Cajunboy wrote:Are you a bus driver?


No, I've never had a Chip Shop.
I've never driven a bus. What a nightmare for the passengers that would be.
It's just that,the older I get the more an old bus gets me going.
I also have a disturbing interest in railway station chocolate bar vending machines.
Now,if my lift turns up,I'm off to the match.

227Brexit - A new twist! - Page 12 Empty Re: Brexit - A new twist! Tue Feb 28 2017, 18:52

RustyNail


Nicky Hunt
Nicky Hunt

xmiles wrote:
RustyNail wrote:I work in the criminal justice system and so when I voted out I did it because I firmly believe we should be able to pick and choose who we want in the country.
The crime figures are disproportional for people from certain countries. For example, there are loads of polish people in Bolton yet I have only had a couple on my books in the past 4 years. Yet I have had dozens of Romanian and Hungarians, even though they are here in much smaller numbers.

This isnt relevant to brexit but a lot of people have criticised the amount of refugees we took from Syria. However, Asian and\or muslim male sex offenders, again the figures are massively disproportional to the population. These are facts not opinion.

I barely heard a single decent argument during the months of debate before the vote so I have based my opinion on my own knowledge of crime figures which show that certain nationalities are committing far more crimes than others. Why would you want them in the country?

I can't really follow your logic on this Rusty. You say you based your vote on your knowledge of crime figures and yet you say that "Asian and\or muslim male sex offenders, again the figures are massively disproportional to the population." But as you surely know these people are immigrants from countries NOT in the EU and I very much doubt that many of them are from Syria.
Try reading again. I've put it in bold to help you.

228Brexit - A new twist! - Page 12 Empty Re: Brexit - A new twist! Tue Feb 28 2017, 19:43

xmiles

xmiles
Jay Jay Okocha
Jay Jay Okocha

RustyNail wrote:
xmiles wrote:
RustyNail wrote:I work in the criminal justice system and so when I voted out I did it because I firmly believe we should be able to pick and choose who we want in the country.
The crime figures are disproportional for people from certain countries. For example, there are loads of polish people in Bolton yet I have only had a couple on my books in the past 4 years. Yet I have had dozens of Romanian and Hungarians, even though they are here in much smaller numbers.

This isnt relevant to brexit but a lot of people have criticised the amount of refugees we took from Syria. However, Asian and\or muslim male sex offenders, again the figures are massively disproportional to the population. These are facts not opinion.

I barely heard a single decent argument during the months of debate before the vote so I have based my opinion on my own knowledge of crime figures which show that certain nationalities are committing far more crimes than others. Why would you want them in the country?

I can't really follow your logic on this Rusty. You say you based your vote on your knowledge of crime figures and yet you say that "Asian and\or muslim male sex offenders, again the figures are massively disproportional to the population." But as you surely know these people are immigrants from countries NOT in the EU and I very much doubt that many of them are from Syria.
Try reading again. I've put it in bold to help you.

So you voted Leave "based my opinion on my own knowledge of crime figures which show that certain nationalities are committing far more crimes than others" and these nationalities are not "Asian and\or muslim male sex offenders" or Poles but Romanians and Hungarians.

However the UK always had the power "to pick and choose who we want in the country". See for example this below, it's just that no government chose to exercise these powers because employers wanted cheap labour:

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=5&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwi7lf2dxbPSAhVnLMAKHc6CAFAQFgg1MAQ&url=http%3A%2F%2Flawyers-inforbritain.uk%2Fb-m-a%2Fcan-the-uk-control-its-borders-if-it-remains-in-the-eu%2F&usg=AFQjCNEppdmkiP6wgQ0jHpGMHE3Dg9iASA&sig2=_z5OzlQwgLTSOUuQpjN-wQ

229Brexit - A new twist! - Page 12 Empty Re: Brexit - A new twist! Tue Feb 28 2017, 21:24

RustyNail


Nicky Hunt
Nicky Hunt

I can't be arsed reading your link, particularly as it doesn't look like the world's most official website. Why on earth would the remain camp not use that as an argument if what you are saying is accurate? And why would all sides pretend otherwise for all of these years? Doesn't make sense to me.

230Brexit - A new twist! - Page 12 Empty Re: Brexit - A new twist! Tue Feb 28 2017, 22:19

xmiles

xmiles
Jay Jay Okocha
Jay Jay Okocha

If you read the link you would find out.

It is completely factual not opinion.

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