How about Rochdale, you never know they may make an instant return to league one next season.
Hamilton v Bolton
+14
Hipster_Nebula
gloswhite
chipbutty
Bolton Nuts
wanderlust
Michael Bolton
bwfc71
Culcheth_White
Keegan
aaron_bwfc
terenceanne
largehat
Natasha Whittam
Sluffy
18 posters
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32 Re: Hamilton v Bolton Sat Jul 21 2012, 23:10
wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Whilst both the Accies and Ayr are decent clubs and may have pulled out all the stops to beat us, it is worrying that our squad couldn't do a lot better than this in second or even third gear.
Not sure what we have learned from the experience, but I'm half way to concluding that we have learnt we are even shitter than we thought we were.
These matches may be of little importance, but there's nothing like a stirring victory to build team ethics and instil the new players with confidence - and these games were indeed nothing like a stirring victory.
Not sure what we have learned from the experience, but I'm half way to concluding that we have learnt we are even shitter than we thought we were.
These matches may be of little importance, but there's nothing like a stirring victory to build team ethics and instil the new players with confidence - and these games were indeed nothing like a stirring victory.
33 Re: Hamilton v Bolton Sat Jul 21 2012, 23:11
Natasha Whittam
Nat Lofthouse
wanderlust wrote:
Not sure what we have learned from the experience, but I'm half way to concluding that we have learnt we are even shitter than we thought we were.
Impossible man!
34 Re: Hamilton v Bolton Sun Jul 22 2012, 01:03
terenceanne
El Hadji Diouf
Of course it's only the 2nd pre-season game but wouldn't it be nice to be writting positive things about the team. Nice passing, movement etc...looking good... and all of us aching for that first league game.
Right now I'm taking Burnley 2-0 until further notice.
Right now I'm taking Burnley 2-0 until further notice.
35 Re: Hamilton v Bolton Sun Jul 22 2012, 01:11
Bolton Nuts
Admin
terenceanne wrote:Of course it's only the 2nd pre-season game but wouldn't it be nice to be writting positive things about the team. Nice passing, movement etc...looking good... and all of us aching for that first league game.
Right now I'm taking Burnley 2-0 until further notice.
That's a great point spock.
Why do we have to accept crap just because it's a pre season game? We should still look decent against teams like that. Come on. In about 3 or 4 weeks we will be into a competitive league season - is it really excusable to be this bad 3 weeks before the season commences?
It's only a friendly is an excuse for we are rubbish. A team of highly paid professionals should be doing a better job considering who they were against. I can't think of any other job where an under performance would be seen as ok during what is effectively training. A fire man couldn't go into a burning building during training and go "oh well, I died in training but will be ok in a real fire next week"...
36 Re: Hamilton v Bolton Sun Jul 22 2012, 01:14
Bolton Nuts
Admin
Oh, that was a rubbish example.
But really what I am trying to get across is, why (even though it's pre-season) are we unable to beat such a low classed opposition? It's still the same bunch of players who we are going to be depending on in a few weeks. So they have been out of season for about 8 weeks. Have they forgotten how to do it? But you know what. Accies have been out of season for 8 weeks too - and they won.
But really what I am trying to get across is, why (even though it's pre-season) are we unable to beat such a low classed opposition? It's still the same bunch of players who we are going to be depending on in a few weeks. So they have been out of season for about 8 weeks. Have they forgotten how to do it? But you know what. Accies have been out of season for 8 weeks too - and they won.
37 Re: Hamilton v Bolton Sun Jul 22 2012, 07:52
chipbutty
Nicolas Anelka
Last season it was obvious that the defence was a bit shaky (ok against PL teams) but still not good enough. There are still question marks over Boggers but the main problem has been the two centre-backs. What bit I (think) I know about football is, have a strong, solid defence starting with a good reliable keeper and two reliable central defenders. We have lost our best centre-half and the other will be out for a few months. Coyle knew this in the closed season. What has done about it? What has he done about the left-back problem?
Another blatantly obvious problem was, where were the goals going to come from? Against Ayr and Hamilton we have scored one goal (by a defender). Again what has Coyle done since last May in this department?
The main underlying problem with the team remains the same as before. I'm sorry to say the problem is the manager.
Another blatantly obvious problem was, where were the goals going to come from? Against Ayr and Hamilton we have scored one goal (by a defender). Again what has Coyle done since last May in this department?
The main underlying problem with the team remains the same as before. I'm sorry to say the problem is the manager.
38 Re: Hamilton v Bolton Sun Jul 22 2012, 12:52
largehat
Frank Worthington
We didn't have a 'left back problem' once Ricketts got fit around Christmas time. So I'm not sure what you expected to happen over the Summer.
And if you're using the fact that none of our strikers have scored so far in the first two pre-season friendlies as evidence that we have go problems up front, knowing full well neither Ngog or Sordell have played and that we used 22 different players in each game, there's more wrong with your selective grasp of the situation than there is with the manager.
Why don't you wait until the actual football season starts before getting the knives out for Coyle? Is that asking so much? Only a few weeks to wait now and if we're as bad as you suggest then you'll have 46 relevant and important games to stick the boot in after.
And if you're using the fact that none of our strikers have scored so far in the first two pre-season friendlies as evidence that we have go problems up front, knowing full well neither Ngog or Sordell have played and that we used 22 different players in each game, there's more wrong with your selective grasp of the situation than there is with the manager.
Why don't you wait until the actual football season starts before getting the knives out for Coyle? Is that asking so much? Only a few weeks to wait now and if we're as bad as you suggest then you'll have 46 relevant and important games to stick the boot in after.
39 Re: Hamilton v Bolton Sun Jul 22 2012, 14:09
gloswhite
Guðni Bergsson
We had 22 players ? And we still lost ? Probably couldn't see the goal for players
40 Re: Hamilton v Bolton Sun Jul 22 2012, 15:00
chipbutty
Nicolas Anelka
Hat , I don't have a 'selective grasp' as you say (Well I might have because I don't know what that means) . I'm just giving my opinion of how I see the club laid out before me which is the only purpose of these sites.
I may be wrong but I think that Ricketts is a right-sided player. Ngog a good holder-upper but not a goal scorer. Sordel - can't give an opinion because I've hardly ever (if ever) seen him play and I doubt that you've seen much of him.
My criticism of Coyle, which I will be delighted to be proved wrong, is that as I see it, the areas of weakness that we could all see, have not been addressed and that Coyle is continuing on from last season. I criticized him before and will continue to do so as and when I see fit.
I may be wrong but I think that Ricketts is a right-sided player. Ngog a good holder-upper but not a goal scorer. Sordel - can't give an opinion because I've hardly ever (if ever) seen him play and I doubt that you've seen much of him.
My criticism of Coyle, which I will be delighted to be proved wrong, is that as I see it, the areas of weakness that we could all see, have not been addressed and that Coyle is continuing on from last season. I criticized him before and will continue to do so as and when I see fit.
41 Re: Hamilton v Bolton Sun Jul 22 2012, 15:24
terenceanne
El Hadji Diouf
I still like OC but also accept all the critics views. I am not seeing any improvement and it's getting harder to defend. If we get off to a poor start then I'm on board to get rid.
42 Re: Hamilton v Bolton Sun Jul 22 2012, 15:51
Guest
Guest
I neither expect to win or lose pre-season friendlies, they mean absolutely nothing I only take an interest in who's looking match fit or if we have a new signing out there.
For the players it's an opportunity to get some fitness. They aren't going out there flying into tackles, sprinting about, giving 100% to win a friendly. It's unnecessary, they just want to avoid injury and get back into some football. Read nothing into this, we'll judge Coyle and the squad after we've played Burnley, that's when it matters.
For the players it's an opportunity to get some fitness. They aren't going out there flying into tackles, sprinting about, giving 100% to win a friendly. It's unnecessary, they just want to avoid injury and get back into some football. Read nothing into this, we'll judge Coyle and the squad after we've played Burnley, that's when it matters.
43 Re: Hamilton v Bolton Sun Jul 22 2012, 16:08
largehat
Frank Worthington
Butty - by 'selective grasp' I am referring to what I consider to be your conscious decision to pick and choose aspects of the situation which fit your desiderata - ie to have a good old whinge about Coyle.
The 'left back problem' you refer to is a perfect example. Rather than acknowledge that Ricketts' return from injury solved that problem over 6 months ago, you point out that he's a right sided player. But he's played really well at left back since his return from injury, and we have two other specialist right backs in the first team squad. There simply isn't a left back problem and there hasn't been for months.
I think you're too eager to moan about Coyle and that's why I suggest you should hang fire until you have something credible to moan about. If you want to write about problems that aren't there though (ref: your line about "I will continue to do so as when I see fit", that's your prerogative of course, but you'll have to accept that others may exercise their own prerogative to point out the glaring holes in your logic, when such holes are present.
I'm not happy to lose 2-0 to a Scottish first division team either, by the way, but in the grand scheme of things all that matters is the 46 league games for which points are awarded. This is why the manager is playing 22 players, giving youngsters a run out and trying different systems of play.
The 'left back problem' you refer to is a perfect example. Rather than acknowledge that Ricketts' return from injury solved that problem over 6 months ago, you point out that he's a right sided player. But he's played really well at left back since his return from injury, and we have two other specialist right backs in the first team squad. There simply isn't a left back problem and there hasn't been for months.
I think you're too eager to moan about Coyle and that's why I suggest you should hang fire until you have something credible to moan about. If you want to write about problems that aren't there though (ref: your line about "I will continue to do so as when I see fit", that's your prerogative of course, but you'll have to accept that others may exercise their own prerogative to point out the glaring holes in your logic, when such holes are present.
I'm not happy to lose 2-0 to a Scottish first division team either, by the way, but in the grand scheme of things all that matters is the 46 league games for which points are awarded. This is why the manager is playing 22 players, giving youngsters a run out and trying different systems of play.
44 Re: Hamilton v Bolton Sun Jul 22 2012, 16:11
largehat
Frank Worthington
terenceanne wrote:If we get off to a poor start then I'm on board to get rid.
I'm pretty much on board with this comment. Not sure where exactly I would draw the line, but if we're, say, 9-10 points off the play off zone by the end of October, it will be time for Coyle to go. We have to be in contention for promotion a third of the way through the season.
45 Re: Hamilton v Bolton Sun Jul 22 2012, 16:49
aaron_bwfc
Moderator
Gartsides blind faith in him will probably give him more time than what we would give him.
I think the board will assess how the team is going just before december but personally with the opening fixtures we have I would be dissapointed if we are not in at least a play off spot by the start of november.
I think the board will assess how the team is going just before december but personally with the opening fixtures we have I would be dissapointed if we are not in at least a play off spot by the start of november.
46 Re: Hamilton v Bolton Sun Jul 22 2012, 19:00
Natasha Whittam
Nat Lofthouse
largehat wrote:
I think you're too eager to moan about Coyle
You're not the first person to suggest we should wait for a chunk of the season to pass before we let rip on Owen Coyle, as if the Summer breaks cancels out the previous 18 months of utter shite.
If your company had a sales manager who hadn't sold a thing for 18 months, they wouldn't wipe the slate clean when he returned from his Summer holidays.
Everyone knows Coyle should have been sacked a long time ago, I already have my "I Told You So" post written.
47 Re: Hamilton v Bolton Sun Jul 22 2012, 19:04
largehat
Frank Worthington
It's simple, "Natasha".
The manager's pre-season performance is almost totally irrelevant. It doesn't even give a reliable indication of early season form.
I've never heard of a manager losing his job based on pre-season friendlies in the 150 year history of the professional game. There's a really, really obvious reason for that, which you choose to ignore.
The manager's pre-season performance is almost totally irrelevant. It doesn't even give a reliable indication of early season form.
I've never heard of a manager losing his job based on pre-season friendlies in the 150 year history of the professional game. There's a really, really obvious reason for that, which you choose to ignore.
48 Re: Hamilton v Bolton Sun Jul 22 2012, 19:05
Natasha Whittam
Nat Lofthouse
largehat wrote:It's simple, "Natasha".
The manager's pre-season performance is almost totally irrelevant. It doesn't even give a reliable indication of early season form.
I've never heard of a manager losing his job based on pre-season friendlies in the 150 year history of the professional game. There's a really, really obvious reason for that, which you choose to ignore.
So if we lose at Burnley am I ok to start the Coyle Out threads?
49 Re: Hamilton v Bolton Sun Jul 22 2012, 19:13
largehat
Frank Worthington
Natasha Whittam wrote:
So if we lose at Burnley am I ok to start the Coyle Out threads?
Since when did my opinion ever stop you from starting Coyle out or any other threads?
In answer to your question, you will be 100 times more justified in starting a Coyle out thread if we lose at Burnley than you are having lost a pre-season friendly, but at the same time, I think even the most ardent critic of Coyle would not want to sack him after one game. Most people have said they will give him a month. I have said I will give him until the end of October. That would allow a new manager time and opportunity to turn things round. I want Coyle to succeed, you don't, even though he was your first choice when Megson left. We're all entitled to different levels of patience and understanding, mine are genuine, yours are driven by a desire to WUM and troll.
50 Re: Hamilton v Bolton Sun Jul 22 2012, 19:16
Natasha Whittam
Nat Lofthouse
largehat wrote:
In answer to your question, you will be 100 times more justified in starting a Coyle out thread if we lose at Burnley than you are having lost a pre-season friendly, but at the same time, I think even the most ardent critic of Coyle would not want to sack him after one game. Most people have said they will give him a month. I have said I will give him until the end of October. That would allow a new manager time and opportunity to turn things round. I want Coyle to succeed, you don't, even though he was your first choice when Megson left. We're all entitled to different levels of patience and understanding, mine are genuine, yours are driven by a desire to WUM and troll.
So you're giving him until October before you think he should be sacked - why? Why is he good enough now but not in October?
You won't admit it but you know he's not upto it.
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