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Brexit negotiations

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271 Re: Brexit negotiations on Tue Nov 27 2018, 21:50

karlypants

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@Natasha Whittam wrote:
@xmiles wrote:I agree with almost everything you say but it wasn't so much the middle class who voted for brexit it was much more the old, the less well educated and northerners!

Sometimes you really do come across as an arrogant tosspot.

This is the problem with all Remainers.

272 Re: Brexit negotiations on Tue Nov 27 2018, 21:54

boltonbonce

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Leavers.


Remainers.



Razz Razz

273 Re: Brexit negotiations on Tue Nov 27 2018, 22:12

xmiles

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Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo
@Natasha Whittam wrote:
@xmiles wrote:I agree with almost everything you say but it wasn't so much the middle class who voted for brexit it was much more the old, the less well educated and northerners!

Sometimes you really do come across as an arrogant tosspot.

Yes you think it is a crime to state the truth. Why don't you face reality; these are simple facts.



Last edited by xmiles on Tue Nov 27 2018, 22:21; edited 1 time in total

274 Re: Brexit negotiations on Tue Nov 27 2018, 22:14

xmiles

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Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo
@karlypants wrote:
@Natasha Whittam wrote:
@xmiles wrote:I agree with almost everything you say but it wasn't so much the middle class who voted for brexit it was much more the old, the less well educated and northerners!

Sometimes you really do come across as an arrogant tosspot.

This is the problem with all Remainers.

As usual it is the leavers hurling abuse because they can't deal with reality.

275 Re: Brexit negotiations on Tue Nov 27 2018, 22:20

T.R.O.Y


Andy Walker
Andy Walker
@gloswhite wrote:Sorry TROY, can't agree (how unusual  Smile), They do have something to lose, a great deal in fact. The problem for us is that losses for them will have less effect on the EU, than any corresponding losses on the UK.  They can ride out any disruption than us, which gives them the upper hand. If we were to walk away, (probably through our own ineptitude), then I believe you will see a flurry of activity either individually, or as the EU itself. What we mustn't do, is give in even further.

What deal are we offering them though? No freedom of movement but we want full access to the single market without paying any future fees? It’s just not going to happen, and why should it? 

The fact is we benefited massively from the EU, now we need to find another way. It’s not them doing us over, or Labour it’s time you looked at the Brexiteers who sold these lies. It’s just not as simple as they made out.

276 Re: Brexit negotiations on Wed Nov 28 2018, 04:53

wanderlust

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Leavers and remainers came from all societal groups apart from those who were prevented from having a vote in the referendum Yes there are some common trends within subgroups but I can’t see anything that be gained by focusing on how society is constituted. The only thing that matters now is that nobody  will get what they wanted because nobody knew what they were voting for and no group will get what they thought they were voting for and on that basis alone it should be canned.
And despite what peter says, it is reversible if the people stand up to a government attempting to railroad through a deal nobody wants. 
What are they going to do if we say no? Commit political suicide?

277 Re: Brexit negotiations on Wed Nov 28 2018, 08:34

xmiles

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Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo
Here are the facts about how the brexit vote went:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=13&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwilx87g1fbeAhWIgM4BHfx5CGIQFjAMegQIAxAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fyougov.co.uk%2Ftopics%2Fpolitics%2Farticles-reports%2F2016%2F06%2F27%2Fhow-britain-voted&usg=AOvVaw266rNW_gQsa65pM_iGNAEU

It says a lot about the kind of people who support brexit on this site that merely stating these facts leads to a torrent of abuse. Still they probably find that easier than engaging in a rational discussion.

278 Re: Brexit negotiations on Wed Nov 28 2018, 09:00

karlypants

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@xmiles wrote:Here are the facts about how the brexit vote went:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=13&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwilx87g1fbeAhWIgM4BHfx5CGIQFjAMegQIAxAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fyougov.co.uk%2Ftopics%2Fpolitics%2Farticles-reports%2F2016%2F06%2F27%2Fhow-britain-voted&usg=AOvVaw266rNW_gQsa65pM_iGNAEU

It says a lot about the kind of people who support brexit on this site that merely stating these facts leads to a torrent of abuse. Still they probably find that easier than engaging in a rational discussion.


Well I didn't vote in that poll and I very much doubt Glos did so you can go and shove the inaccurate poll up your arse. :biggrin:

279 Re: Brexit negotiations on Wed Nov 28 2018, 09:04

xmiles

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Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo
@karlypants wrote:
@xmiles wrote:Here are the facts about how the brexit vote went:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=13&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwilx87g1fbeAhWIgM4BHfx5CGIQFjAMegQIAxAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fyougov.co.uk%2Ftopics%2Fpolitics%2Farticles-reports%2F2016%2F06%2F27%2Fhow-britain-voted&usg=AOvVaw266rNW_gQsa65pM_iGNAEU

It says a lot about the kind of people who support brexit on this site that merely stating these facts leads to a torrent of abuse. Still they probably find that easier than engaging in a rational discussion.


Well I didn't vote in that poll and I very much doubt Glos did so you can go and shove the inaccurate poll up your arse. :biggrin:

The usual and expected response from someone who doesn't even understand what a poll is.

280 Re: Brexit negotiations on Wed Nov 28 2018, 09:39

okocha

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Tony Kelly
Tony Kelly
How many people on here considered Ireland when voting in the 2016 referendum? 
Honest answers only please.

281 Re: Brexit negotiations on Wed Nov 28 2018, 09:52

Norpig

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Like i said in a previous post no one had a clue what issues would arise with brexit or what the consequences would be.The whole process has been a complete shambles from the start.

There needs to be a cross party approach to this, this is our lives and futures they are messing with!

282 Re: Brexit negotiations on Wed Nov 28 2018, 11:07

Natasha Whittam

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
So xmiles, these are "facts" are they?

I don't remember having to tick a box for "educated" or "thick" on the ballot sheet. Please link me to the official independent body that has stated that only uneducated people voted to leave.

You can't, because it doesn't exist.

The irony is, you've slagged off Farage, Boris etc for making shit up, yet you've just done exactly the same thing.

You have an opinion, not a FACT.

You fucking arsehole.

283 Re: Brexit negotiations on Wed Nov 28 2018, 11:55

xmiles

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Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo
@Natasha Whittam wrote:So xmiles, these are "facts" are they?

I don't remember having to tick a box for "educated" or "thick" on the ballot sheet. Please link me to the official independent body that has stated that only uneducated people voted to leave.

You can't, because it doesn't exist.

The irony is, you've slagged off Farage, Boris etc for making shit up, yet you've just done exactly the same thing.

You have an opinion, not a FACT.

You fucking arsehole.

As usual more abuse from somebody else who doesn't understand what a poll or survey is. I am not making things up (unlike so many brexit fans). Every survey and poll undertaken has shown that the older you are and the less well educated you are the more likely you are to have voted brexit, That is a fact not an opinion.

Try looking up fact and opinion in a dictionary. Then maybe you will understand the difference.

Funny how all the abuse comes from brexiteers. Perhaps it is because you are incapable of engaging in a rational discussion.

284 Re: Brexit negotiations on Wed Nov 28 2018, 12:12

Natasha Whittam

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@xmiles wrote:

As usual more abuse from somebody else who doesn't understand what a poll or survey is. I am not making things up (unlike so many brexit fans). Every survey and poll undertaken has shown that the older you are and the less well educated you are the more likely you are to have voted brexit, That is a fact not an opinion.

Try looking up fact and opinion in a dictionary. Then maybe you will understand the difference.

Funny how all the abuse comes from brexiteers. Perhaps it is because you are incapable of engaging in a rational discussion.

You called me uneducated, is that not abuse?

I know exactly what a poll is. They don't poll every voter, they poll about 50 people - I know because I pay to have polls done.

So I'll ask again, link me to an official independent site that states that only uneducated people voted to leave.

285 Re: Brexit negotiations on Wed Nov 28 2018, 12:58

xmiles

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Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo
I didn't call you uneducated. Try reading what I wrote.

286 Re: Brexit negotiations on Wed Nov 28 2018, 13:01

Natasha Whittam

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
For a third time, link me to an official independent site that states that only uneducated people voted to leave.

287 Re: Brexit negotiations on Wed Nov 28 2018, 14:02

finlaymcdanger

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El Hadji Diouf
El Hadji Diouf
@Natasha Whittam wrote:For a third time, link me to an official independent site that states that only uneducated people voted to leave.

Here's an official Independent site link quoting researchers at the University of Leicester on the subject.

"researchers at the University of Leicester say that had just 3% more of the population gone to university, the UK would probably not be leaving the EU"

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-education-higher-university-study-university-leave-eu-remain-voters-educated-a7881441.html

Wink

288 Re: Brexit negotiations on Wed Nov 28 2018, 14:13

Natasha Whittam

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
I see what you did there.

Don't do it again.

289 Re: Brexit negotiations on Wed Nov 28 2018, 18:35

Cajunboy

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Andy Walker
Andy Walker
I see Carney's at it again.

290 Re: Brexit negotiations on Wed Nov 28 2018, 19:40

wessy

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Andy Walker
Andy Walker
The comments above show just how broken this country is at this point, everyone as a view an opinion but no one really knows all the facts and no one really can think off a workable solution that everyone can get behind.
I have been interested in politics all my life, i am 65 voted remain, i have never missed voting in any election since i was 18 years old. BUT i am confused as hell over were i stand on this issue ?

I voted remain, i am a Labour party member, so you would think it natural that i would either want a general election, or a peoples vote.

And this is were i have a problem, in my opinion it was a huge mistake to vote to leave the EU, i am entitled to that view, however i am a democrat so could not support a second referendum even though i think we were not given the truth to make an informed decision i fear a second vote would alienate the voters against MP's for a generation or two.

So you would think a general election would appease me? well no because for the first time in my life right at this moment i think it would be a mistake for another party to take ownership of this mess.

This started with Cameron trying to lance a Tory boil, he thought he could get a quick fix and it back fired, so this is a mess started by the Tories and then mismanaged by this government, they own this mess and should be judged on the outcome for years to come.

 If Labour took control and failed, they would inherit the blame and we know that the Tories would soon make it stick.

291 Re: Brexit negotiations on Wed Nov 28 2018, 20:20

Natasha Whittam

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Xmiles has had all day to prove his "fact".

Seems like he couldn't.

Make sure your next post is an apology you condescending wanker.

292 Re: Brexit negotiations on Wed Nov 28 2018, 20:25

T.R.O.Y


Andy Walker
Andy Walker
I think Xmiles is probably right in terms of voting trends amongst demographics - but it’s not relevant IMO. 

There’s nobody to blame other than the Brexiteers who sold the pack of lies, as Glos points out there was misinformation on both sides making an informed decision incredibly difficult. You can’t blame people for buying a narrative created to play on their fears and concerns.

Don’t blame voters, the EU or remainers for this mess it’s entirely the fault of a small group of politicians and the financiers and media backers who made it possible.

293 Re: Brexit negotiations on Wed Nov 28 2018, 22:17

xmiles

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Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo
@Natasha Whittam wrote:Xmiles has had all day to prove his "fact".

Seems like he couldn't.

Make sure your next post is an apology you condescending wanker.

1. Always with the abuse never an actual reasoned argument.

2. You still don't seem to understand what a fact is. Try using a dictionary.

3. I have never stated "only uneducated people voted to leave". Show me where I said that or apologise.

4. The YouGov poll I quoted surveyed over 5000 people, which you would have known if you had taken the trouble to read it.

5. Since I have a life and don't spend all day on this site unlike people with over 30,000 posts I didn't see your post until a few minutes ago.

6. Stand by for more hysterical abuse.

294 Re: Brexit negotiations on Thu Nov 29 2018, 06:01

Dunkels King

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Nicolas Anelka
Nicolas Anelka
@Natasha Whittam wrote:Xmiles has had all day to prove his "fact".

Seems like he couldn't.

Make sure your next post is an apology you condescending wanker.
Why do you have to resort to such language when you don’t agree with something ? Xmiles doesn’t have to prove something that you can find by following the link provided. Just like 90% of all the shit that Brexit supporting politicians spout can be proven to be false or half truths by bothering to actually read up on it. I mentioned to a friend yesterday that many companies are already looking to move positions to mainland Europe, and in some cases completely close up their UK operations. His retort was that Boeing, the massive Aircraft manufacturer is setting up a facility near Sheffield, which just goes to show how we can attract companies. The only problem is the facility only needs 30 people of which 19 will be apprentices, so infact Boeing will only employ and pay for 11 people. Every staunch leaver I have met just now seems hell bent on leaving no matter what the impact will be. They would rather be worse off with no future opportunities for their children and grand children than admit it is a bit of a disaster. Anyone thinking that all of a sudden the UK will become a manufacturing powerhouse again is living in a dream world. Those times are long gone because half of what was classed as third world is now infact more powerful than the UK and able to undercut anything we can provide by such an amount that the transportation costs from half way around the world are completely insignificant. Even our “best buddies” the USA are already one of around 20 Countries blocking our attempts at getting fast track WTO access.

295 Re: Brexit negotiations on Thu Nov 29 2018, 11:27

xmiles

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Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-46384417

Oh the irony! Racists who voted for brexit have seen the number of europeans coming here drop but the number of non-europeans increase.

"EU net migration was 74,000 in the year to the end of June 2018, while non-EU net migration was 248,000."

296 Re: Brexit negotiations on Thu Nov 29 2018, 11:39

Natasha Whittam

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@Dunkels King wrote:They would rather be worse off with no future opportunities for their children and grand children than admit it is a bit of a disaster.

When we leave the EU the world doesn't end you know. Do you understand that there are countries outside the EU that run just as well as countries in the EU.

There might be a time of adjustment but we'll get on with it, despite the bleating and whinging.

As for your children and grandchildren having no opportunities, that might well be true, but it won't be because of Brexit it'll be down to the rising sea levels and ever hotter climate. Yet I don't see you having a meltdown about that. Do you honestly think Brexit is more of a threat to future generations than global warming?

297 Re: Brexit negotiations on Thu Nov 29 2018, 11:43

Natasha Whittam

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@xmiles wrote:4. The YouGov poll I quoted surveyed over 5000 people, which you would have known if you had taken the trouble to read it.


Ha ha, I actually laughed out loud at this. Ignoring the fact that 5,000 people isn't even 0.1% of the population, you do realise people get paid for doing YouGov polls don't you?



298 Re: Brexit negotiations on Thu Nov 29 2018, 11:45

karlypants

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@Natasha Whittam wrote:
@xmiles wrote:4. The YouGov poll I quoted surveyed over 5000 people, which you would have known if you had taken the trouble to read it.


Ha ha, I actually laughed out loud at this. Ignoring the fact that 5,000 people isn't even 0.1% of the population, you do realise people get paid for doing YouGov polls don't you?




I thought the same Nat.

Xmiles is losing the plot! Very Happy

299 Re: Brexit negotiations on Thu Nov 29 2018, 11:50

Natasha Whittam

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@xmiles wrote:
5. Since I have a life and don't spend all day on this site unlike people with over 30,000 posts I didn't see your post until a few minutes ago.


I thought insults were beneath you? I'll have you know I only post on here when the adverts come on during Jeremy Kyle.

300 Re: Brexit negotiations on Thu Nov 29 2018, 11:52

Natasha Whittam

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@xmiles wrote:3. I have never stated "only uneducated people voted to leave". Show me where I said that or apologise.


Ok, I apologise, you stated "less well educated people" voted for leave. But the implication is still the same, that people like me weren't clever enough to decide for themselves.

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