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Bolton Nuts » BWFC » Wandering Minds » The Independent Group - Six MPs quit The Independant Group!

The Independent Group - Six MPs quit The Independant Group!

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wanderlust


Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

wanderlust


Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Corbyn responds with a statement about policies - which is a bit of a red herring seeing as they resigned over anti-semitism and Brexit.

boltonbonce

boltonbonce
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Hope they join a group they'll feel more comfortable in.

Mumsnet.

rammywhite

rammywhite
Frank Worthington
Frank Worthington
The only one who really matters is Chuka Umunna, who is a credible articulate politician who I thought had a great future as a moderate in the Labour party. The others without being disrespectful, aren't of any real significance.
This reminds me of when Owen, Williams Rodgers and Jenkins broke away and formed the SDP in 1981 - they soon faded away without making an impact.
Its likely these 7 and any who join them will do the same

boltonbonce

boltonbonce
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
The fact that they're asking members of other parties to join them says a lot about where they stand.

Hipster_Nebula

Hipster_Nebula
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
You can't wipe the grin off my face.

Fucking hilarious.

boltonbonce

boltonbonce
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Moggy will be joining them next. Razz

Hipster_Nebula

Hipster_Nebula
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
I'm sure lib Dems like Anna sour piss and Sarah wolly stone will join them.

xmiles

xmiles
Youri Djorkaeff
Youri Djorkaeff
@wanderlust wrote:Corbyn responds with a statement about policies - which is a bit of a red herring seeing as they resigned over anti-semitism and Brexit.

Typical stupidity from Corbyn.

Pity they left the party. I think they have made a major mistake.

wanderlust


Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Does look like a thinly-veiled Gang of Four job presumably to appeal to "centrists" (rather than extremists like Mumsnet Smile ) but the way this flops - and their credibility - will be determined by whether or not they stick to their original statement i.e. that their issue is with the culture within Labour, and Brexit aside will continue to support Labour policies as independents.

If they start producing their own manifesto we'll know they're going for cross-party appeal to establish a centrist party to compete with the LibDems.

wanderlust


Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@xmiles wrote:
@wanderlust wrote:Corbyn responds with a statement about policies - which is a bit of a red herring seeing as they resigned over anti-semitism and Brexit.

Typical stupidity from Corbyn.

Pity they left the party. I think they have made a major mistake.
Thing is that in making that type of response, Corbyn gives the impression that..
* He doesn't accept the criticisms of or is willing to do anything about "bullying" and anti-semitism in the Labour party.
* He is ignoring the concerns over brexit and is content to go along with allowing May to get her deal through by positioning no-deal as the only alternative


Poor leadership.

xmiles

xmiles
Youri Djorkaeff
Youri Djorkaeff
@wanderlust wrote:
@xmiles wrote:
@wanderlust wrote:Corbyn responds with a statement about policies - which is a bit of a red herring seeing as they resigned over anti-semitism and Brexit.

Typical stupidity from Corbyn.

Pity they left the party. I think they have made a major mistake.
Thing is that in making that type of response, Corbyn gives the impression that..
* He doesn't accept the criticisms of or is willing to do anything about "bullying" and anti-semitism in the Labour party.
* He is ignoring the concerns over brexit and is content to go along with allowing May to get her deal through by positioning no-deal as the only alternative


Poor leadership.

Exactly!

T.R.O.Y


Andy Walker
Andy Walker
Listened to the conference earlier, one of the MPs said he no longer recognised Labour, as it was a racist and anti Semitic party. Another spoke of the bullying they’d been subjected to online.

Both of the above are serious issues that need to be addressed, neither issues are endemic within the Labour Party. They are limited a small group of Twitter nuts.

wessy

wessy
Andy Walker
Andy Walker
I always believe if your part of an organisation you should try to influence from within, Corbyn is temporary whilst the Labour Party should be for keeps. 

However i have found myself feeling uneasy of late by the direction the party is taking. If on social media you make any informed comment that is seen to be of a centre left nature you get dogs abuse from the momentum side of the party.

I no longer feel that it is the tolerant party i have always supported, but to break away just at a time when we have the most shambolic Tory party in living memory just helps the real enemy of Labour to stay in power.

boltonbonce

boltonbonce
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
These are the type of people who were happy enough to bully me, and others, in the 70's, claiming we were Trots.

wanderlust


Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@T.R.O.Y wrote:Listened to the conference earlier, one of the MPs said he no longer recognised Labour, as it was a racist and anti Semitic party. Another spoke of the bullying they’d been subjected to online.

Both of the above are serious issues that need to be addressed, neither issues are endemic within the Labour Party. They are limited a small group of Twitter nuts.
If it is only a small group of Twitter nuts, you'd think it would be easy to stamp it out or at least distance the party from them but JC doesn't seem to want to do anything about it, and that's bad for his image and the image of the party.

boltonbonce

boltonbonce
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
They want another vote on Brexit, but won't call a by-election, so their own constituency can have its say.

T.R.O.Y


Andy Walker
Andy Walker
Part of it is what is defined as anti-semitism, some have any criticism of the Israeli state or being Pro-Palestinian as an offence. The offences that are raised are assessed and dealt with if necessary, not sure what else you want the party to do about it? It’s being used as a stick to beat the leadership with and blown out of proportion. It’s a tiny portion of people relative to the size of the membership.

T.R.O.Y


Andy Walker
Andy Walker
@boltonbonce wrote:They want another vote on Brexit, but won't call a by-election, so their own constituency can have its say.

Agreed Bonce. Should be the first thing they have to do.

boltonbonce

boltonbonce
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
This just arrived in my mailbox.


Dear David,

Well, they've finally done it. After years of briefings and threats, a handful of Labour MPs, led by Chris Leslie and Chuka Umunna, have announced they're resigning the whip and forming a new "independent grouping".

Leslie and Umunna know that a new party can't win an election. Just when Labour has the flailing Tories on the ropes, they have decided to leave the fight. Whatever they say, their real goal is simply to stop Jeremy Corbyn's Labour Party coming to power and prevent a transformation of this country for the many, not the few.

They are even reportedly planning to deliberately stand in marginal seats where splitting part of the Labour vote would have the most effect - that effect being that the Tory wins. In short, they are trying to create a Blairite spoiler part



Antisemitism is a serious issue. We are committed to rooting it out of the party and hope all Jewish members will stay to help us do this.

But Leslie and Chuka have been undermining the leadership from the very moment Jeremy was elected. They are attacking Labour for "weaken[ing] our national security", supporting "states hostile to our country" and being "hostile to businesses large and small". In short, their agenda is for war and big business.

Their politics of the past cannot solve the challenges of today - and we need to do everything we can to fight it.

But they will do everything they can to sabotage Labour now, and we know they'll have major donors and corporate backing already lined up. So we need to fight back. We're bringing in more video experts to help us combat them on social media, and hiring more organisers to prepare for possible by-elections.

rammywhite

rammywhite
Frank Worthington
Frank Worthington
Bonce,
You omitted to say who it was signed by. Perhaps that might shed some light on its authenticity and provenance.

boltonbonce

boltonbonce
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@rammywhite wrote:Bonce,
You omitted to say who it was signed by. Perhaps that might shed some light on its authenticity and provenance.

Laura Parker
Momentum National Coordinator.

It was followed by this.





 

Dear David,

Our country is in crisis and needs a Labour Government. 

Our opponents are the Tories, not each other, and it's disappointing that a small group of MPs have felt unable to continue to work together for the Labour policies that inspired millions at the last election and saw us increase our vote by the largest share since 1945. 

Labour won people over on a programme for the many not the few – redistributing wealth and power, taking vital resources into public ownership, investing in every region and nation, and tackling climate change. 

The Conservative Government is bungling Brexit, while Labour has set out a credible alternative, keeping all options on the table, including a public vote to stop a disastrous 'no deal' Brexit. 

When millions are facing the misery of Universal Credit, rising crime, homelessness and poverty, now more than ever is the time to bring people together to build a better future for us all. For those millions the only solution is a Labour Government that will invest in and transform our country. 

That's why we must be united – not for ourselves but to deliver a Labour Government. 

Yours, 

The Independent Group - Six MPs quit The Independant Group! Jcsig_350px

Jeremy Corbyn
Leader of the Labour Party 

xmiles

xmiles
Youri Djorkaeff
Youri Djorkaeff
@boltonbonce wrote:This just arrived in my mailbox.


Dear David,

Well, they've finally done it. After years of briefings and threats, a handful of Labour MPs, led by Chris Leslie and Chuka Umunna, have announced they're resigning the whip and forming a new "independent grouping".

Leslie and Umunna know that a new party can't win an election. Just when Labour has the flailing Tories on the ropes, they have decided to leave the fight. Whatever they say, their real goal is simply to stop Jeremy Corbyn's Labour Party coming to power and prevent a transformation of this country for the many, not the few.

They are even reportedly planning to deliberately stand in marginal seats where splitting part of the Labour vote would have the most effect - that effect being that the Tory wins. In short, they are trying to create a Blairite spoiler part



Antisemitism is a serious issue. We are committed to rooting it out of the party and hope all Jewish members will stay to help us do this.

But Leslie and Chuka have been undermining the leadership from the very moment Jeremy was elected. They are attacking Labour for "weaken[ing] our national security", supporting "states hostile to our country" and being "hostile to businesses large and small". In short, their agenda is for war and big business.

Their politics of the past cannot solve the challenges of today - and we need to do everything we can to fight it.

But they will do everything they can to sabotage Labour now, and we know they'll have major donors and corporate backing already lined up. So we need to fight back. We're bringing in more video experts to help us combat them on social media, and hiring more organisers to prepare for possible by-elections.

Some amazing bullshit in that email and the kind of magical thinking that brexiteers normally indulge in.

"Just when Labour has the flailing Tories on the ropes". Have they seen any opinion polls lately? It is the shear incompetence of Corbyn that is holding Labour back. His own ratings are virtually off the scale they are so bad.

"We are committed to rooting [antisemiticism] out of the party". Really? They haven't succeeded even after all this time and Corbyn's refusal to take any effective lead is typical of his incompetence.

Funny how it is suggested that these MPs should stand down and seek re-election by the very people who are not pushing for a second referendum. Surely these MPs were elected by the "will of the people".

boltonbonce

boltonbonce
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
A second referendum isn't feasible. However, these people were elected as Labour members, to represent their constituency, and as far as I'm concerned, they've jumped ship, and need to go back to the voters, and let them have their say.

T.R.O.Y


Andy Walker
Andy Walker
They were elected on a Labour manifesto and backed by Labour money and acitivists. Not suggesting the party are the only factor but it’s major enough that a re election is necessary.

Xmiles - if you’re suggesting the Tories are comfortable in power right now then I’d say it’s you who’s guilt of magical thinking.

What do you want them to do on anti-semitism they haven’t already? Difficult to control a bunch of idiots on the internet im sure you’ll agree.



Last edited by T.R.O.Y on Mon Feb 18 2019, 15:02; edited 1 time in total

xmiles

xmiles
Youri Djorkaeff
Youri Djorkaeff
@boltonbonce wrote:A second referendum isn't feasible. However, these people were elected as Labour members, to represent their constituency, and as far as I'm concerned, they've jumped ship, and need to go back to the voters, and let them have their say.

Why isn't a second referendum feasible?

There is far more of a case for Kate Hoey or Frank Field to seek re-election than these seven. At least they are following Labour party policy, unlike Corbyn, Hoey and Field, which is to back a second referendum if the party is unable to force a general election.

boltonbonce

boltonbonce
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
We've had the referendum. What's the point of another one? It was flawed from the start, but it's done.

Leavers won. So leave.

xmiles

xmiles
Youri Djorkaeff
Youri Djorkaeff
@T.R.O.Y wrote:They were elected on a Labour manifesto and backed by Labour money and acitovists. Not suggesting the party are the only factor but it’s major enough that a re election is necessary.

Xmiles - if you’re suggesting the Tories are comfortable in power right now then I’d say it’s you who’s guilt of magical thinking.

What do you want them to do on anti-semitism they haven’t already? Difficult to control a bunch of idiots on the internet im sure you’ll agree.

Given the state of the country and the shambles of the brexit negotiations you have to be a very special kind of idiot to be behind the Tories in the opinion polls and that special idiot is Corbyn.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=22&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjdwJ7VxsXgAhUlpHEKHR4FCu0QFjAVegQIChAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.markpack.org.uk%2F155623%2Fvoting-intention-opinion-poll-scorecard%2F&usg=AOvVaw1L7t_ptO5eF4Jnymg0Ikya

As for dealing with antisemiticism, how about expelling antisemites rather than temporarily suspending them. Corbyn's record is appalling: defending antisemitic murals, opposing the adoption in full of the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance's definition, and accompanying examples, of antisemitism, etc

xmiles

xmiles
Youri Djorkaeff
Youri Djorkaeff
@boltonbonce wrote:We've had the referendum. What's the point of another one? It was flawed from the start, but it's done.

Leavers won. So leave.

So if someone sold you something under false pretences you would just accept that you had been robbed and let it go?

The point is pretty obvious - to get it reversed but if there is another vote to leave then that unfortunately is it. Nobody knows what those who voted leave thought they were voting for because the leave campaign promised all sorts of impossible and contradictory things. If a second referendum was held we would all know the terms.

T.R.O.Y


Andy Walker
Andy Walker
Polls are all well and good, but Labour’s performance in general elections is what counts. And their last performance shows how close they are. 

700 cases of anti semitism is a tiny portion of the membership. Maybe you’re right and more could be done, but this is categorically not a racist or anti Semitic party (I would not vote for it if it was). The issue is ramped up to attack the leadership. They’ve left because they don’t like the direction of the party and the left wing policies. A shame to lose anyone from the party, but life goes on.

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