Club Future - Administration or bust?

wanderlust wrote:

Sluffy wrote:

wanderlust wrote:Ignoring the rantings of the deranged, increasingly desperate  and clearly confused "contributor" on a mission above, another rumour put forward by "Howard" was that Moonshift triggered the clause whereby if Anderson defaulted on the loan repayments he would forfeit his shares, thereby losing control. 
That clause required that Anderson would have 14 days from the date of triggering to sort it out and the stage payment was guesstimated to be around £2 million. 
If true, the 14 days notice is up today or tomorrow (the date I mistook for the winding up hearing date) which means that Anderson would have to find the money himself or get Bassini or A.N. Other to front it in order to retain control of the sale.
Failure to do so would mean that Moonshift could then sell the club to their preferred bidder under the terms they want.
If this turns out to be true, there may be some action over the next 36 hours as Anderson scrambles to retain control, but we'll see.

BTW i don't like being accused of "lying through my teeth", so would someone be kind enough to ask the "contributor" to signpost me to where I have allegedly said that I "hate" Anderson? I had a quick look, and whilst I found hundreds of instances where I have said I don't trust him and am suspicious of his motives (which is and always has been my opinion) I am struggling to find a single instance where I actually said I hate him. There may be an isolated case somewhere in the annals of time but I would be very surprised as I don't (yet) and therefore can't see any reason why I would have said it.
Whilst he's at it, he might also signpost where I have said "I am smarter" than other posters. 
To my knowledge, the only poster who has ever insinuated this is the said contributor (I'm flattered, but would never suggest it myself as I don't believe I am) so evidence please seeing that "facts" are apparently more important than opinions (on a footie forum???) - as opposed to the wild imaginings and misguided extrapolations of said contributor.

I'm not that down with the kids as regards emojis.

Does that one mean you are busy looking for the evidence to back up your accusations and you'll get back to me? 

Can't wait to see if it's going to be the usual one fact followed by 10 paragraphs of unrelated abuse or whether you're just going to go quiet for six weeks like the last time I asked you to back up your personal attacks with facts.

Actually I can wait as I honestly don't give a shit about what you think - or what you think what I think for that matter.

I was lost for words quite frankly as to how vile and obnoxious you really are.

I don't need to go searching through your three year tirade of self-opinionated shite that you've posted about Anderson and occasionally his son, to prove you wrong and highlight your abuse of them - and me.

We all remember you telling us that he won't/hasn't put any money into the club, that he would never spend money on a player transfer or that Ron Billionaire was going to buy us out of Administration for example.

As someone who doesn't apparently give a shit about me, you've posted a huge amount of personal abuse over the last three years - particularly about my mental health and apparent lack of intelligence - including 'deranged', 'confused' and have an inability to 'extrapolate' what you have said presumably because I'm not as smart as you, just totally thick, or both - all of which you say I am in just the two posts quoted from you above!

As for not giving a shit what I think about you - well there is a lie from you right there!

Carry on embarrassing yourself.

So nothing then. Apart from another rant, more presumptions about "what I'm thinking" and another lie about me saying that Ron Burkle was going to buy us out of admin, when in fact I said I hoped he would but I felt it was too late and that he was too pissed off with Anderson.

Meanwhile in the real world (or more accurately in the rumour world) "Howard's" suggestion that the deadline for Ken's Moonshift loan repayment - or ceding the shares - has now passed, so either we get an announcement - say tomorrow - or Howard is wumming.
Personally I hope Howard is telling the truth and there is indeed a reputable consortium waiting in the wings ready to deal with Moonshift.
Ken, it has been suggested, is on holiday in Dubai. All rumours of course, so we're still really none the wiser as to our fate. Could be soon though.

Well "Howard" has rocked up again and dropped a bombshell. If it's true we're well and truly f****d:


I suppose it is time that I clarified the position we find ourselves in. As previously discussed, we retain the right to purchase the debt relating to the ICI-Moonshift transaction. This debt is now in default and ICI have now served their 14 day notice period for recalling the collateral. This means that we can, if we so choose, take control of Burnden Leisure and subsequently BWFC. 
The issue's that we face are as follows: 
Whilst quite prepared to pay off the £28.9M debt, and in fact any other legitimate debts, we are not prepared to cover the additional £26.6M loss that we will incur by writing off the inter company obligation owed by ICI whilst also paying off the associated factoring companies.. When the opportunity was initially pitched to us it was initimated that a deal would involve the partial-total repayment of this, this however is not now the case. Whilst we could choose to liquidate ICI, it is unlikely that we will be able to recover any funds. We also have the very real prospect that any of the factoring companies could jump on to the WU petition if we satisfied all other creditors.
Of the £28.9M, we had anticipated being able recover some of the investment through re-development of the car parks, the building of a secondary hotel on the Hotel car park and selling the rights to an access road for the new Bolton West road system. This combined with a payment against the £13.3M would have gotten us to a point of comfort in respect of losses over the next 3 years.  
So where are we now? We are talking to two of the previously interested parties (Not Bassini) about recalling the shares, funding administration and then loaning them funds to purchase the business from administration. We are discussing us being able to convert this loan to equity at a fixed point in the future. The issue with this is of course the transfer embargo combined with the loss of ups to 14 senior players, leaving a threadbare squad and a fairly bleak campaign.  
As each day goes by and more & more bills are missed, the debt increases and it becomes much less appetising for a potential buyer, for example they are now £1.7M higher than when FV first started to look at the club and with a future payment already taken (EFL). 
Ultimately administration is going to be the only option to shed the debt, it is still going to require £22-£25M but that is probably acceptable to a consortium looking for a slow re-build, this is typically a fans-backed consortium or involving local people. We ourselves wouldn't be looking for a slow re-build. 
I appreciate that this isn't what you wish to hear, but when overall debts turn out to be nearly double the previously stated, it dopes change the attractiveness of an investment. 

If this is true then as Lusty says we are fucked! Transfer embargo, 9 senior players only under contract and a minus 12 points to start the season.
Not sure what half of the financial jargon means but it doesn't sound good!

I'm normally pretty optimistic, but there's an all pervading air of decay surrounding the club.
You could almost taste it last night.

It's about time the mods on this site decided whether this is Bolton Nuts or Wanderers Ways.

To quote one of the mods:

Sluffy wrote:I'd politely request that you keep stuff from other forums off Nuts

Perhaps you could enforce this.

boltonbonce wrote:I'm normally pretty optimistic, but there's an all pervading air of decay surrounding the club.
You could almost taste it last night.

Just a few old men wearing slippers.

Cajunboy wrote:

boltonbonce wrote:I'm normally pretty optimistic, but there's an all pervading air of decay surrounding the club.
You could almost taste it last night.

Just a few old men wearing slippers.

And they were our players!

Great minds Boncey, just what  I thought as I posted that.

I think they've had their dressing gowns on  for most of the season too!

Let's not lose sight of the fact that the Report and Accounts have passed their statutory deadline. I can only assume that Ken is sitting on them and refusing to sign them off. This is the sort of thing that can happen when you have a one man Board!

Cajunboy wrote:Could somebody shed some light on Inner Circle's £26 million "inter company obligation" for the less informed of us please?
How did this debt come about  and why is the club responsible for it?
Is this all loans made to Anderson by Moonshift?
And this is in addition to the £29 million debt of BL i.e. £55million to buy the club?

It's not easy to explain in a couple of sentences AND we are totally reliant on what someone who has their own agenda for posting is saying.

In a nutshell it seems Eddie Davies was always funding the club on the quiet.
He paid £8m at least into it to pay wages and BM - but the £8m was done via a personal loan to KA and/or his company that holds the ownership shares of the club Inner Circle Investments Ltd (or ICI for short).  This money has definitely gone into the club from KA (who as I've said above - but wasn't believed by one!) as his personal money - but he secured it against the club so in theory he could always liquidate the club to get it back and pay off his debt.

Further sums of future income from the EFL and/or stage payments on transfer fees have been factored - money paid up front on account less a commission - but this money was paid to ICI and not the club.  KA however apparently lent it to the club and ICI thus became a creditor to the club if the club ever went bust, even though the money was for the club itself.

H first told us the £8m plus the factored money (which one assumes 'rested' in ICI bank - in Father Ted style) amounted to something like £13.3m (meaning the factoring accounted for around £5.3m).

He initially told us Dark Horse would deal for the £8m they paid for the shares, allow KA a £2m pay off and waive the remainder subject to performance bonuses - say we got to the Premier League in three seasons or something along those lines.

Today Howard seems to be telling us that the whole £13.3m is 'factored' money, and that ICI no longer has it!  So not only does whoever takes us over needs to find £13.3m to pay off the factoring company (the debt is owed by the club not ICI) plus having to find £13.3m again to plug the gap that the advances payments were intended to cover for the future wages/other bills - so debt of £26.6m.

In my mind this doesn't tally with what Howard has said before.

I've raised my doubts via a post on the forum but it seems to have not been addressed to date.

I strongly suspect that all is not as is being portrayed.

Time will tell one way or another I guess.

Thanks for your detailed post Sluffy.

I won't pretend I understand it all, but some things are a little clearer.

I do wonder just what Howard's motivation is in all the posting he/she is doing and how much of it is fact or fiction.

Cajunboy wrote:Could somebody shed some light on Inner Circle's £26 million "inter company obligation" for the less informed of us please?
How did this debt come about  and why is the club responsible for it?

Burden Leisure received funds from the EFL and from transfers (rumoured to be around £13.3 million)

BL (aka Anderson) then "loaned" the £13.3 million money to Inner Circle (aka Anderson)

It is alleged that the £13.3 million then "magically disappeared" from Inner Circle which leaves Anderson in a position to liquidate Inner Circle and BWFC no chance of getting the £13.3 million they "loaned" him back.

Pretty much what Anderson was previously convicted for.

Disclaimers: 

• We don't know if this is true yet. 
  
• If true, we don't know what Anderson did with the money - yet
  
• I am not ready to reiterate my well documented suspicion that Anderson has asset-stripped our club - yet.
  

One thing for sure is if more hidden debts keep surfacing then the chance of us being sold is going to be very low. I'm starting to fear the worst again.

BTW it's not £26 million.
It's alleged to be £13.3 million of income that prospective purchasers thought they were going to get as part of the deal, to offset part of the £29 million that Burden Leisure owes.
And above and beyond ongoing running costs, it's unlikely new "hidden debts" will emerge - as if that wasn't enough already.

wanderlust wrote:

Cajunboy wrote:Could somebody shed some light on Inner Circle's £26 million "inter company obligation" for the less informed of us please?
How did this debt come about  and why is the club responsible for it?

Burden Leisure received funds from the EFL and from transfers (rumoured to be around £13.3 million)

BL (aka Anderson) then "loaned" the £13.3 million money to Inner Circle (aka Anderson)

It is alleged that the £13.3 million then "magically disappeared" from Inner Circle which leaves Anderson in a position to liquidate Inner Circle and BWFC no chance of getting the £13.3 million they "loaned" him back.

Pretty much what Anderson was previously convicted for.

Disclaimers: 

• We don't know if this is true yet. 
  
• If true, we don't know what Anderson did with the money - yet
  
• I am not ready to reiterate my well documented suspicion that Anderson has asset-stripped our club - yet.
  

Thanks for that LUSTY. It's looking grim.

Cajunboy wrote:

wanderlust wrote:

Cajunboy wrote:Could somebody shed some light on Inner Circle's £26 million "inter company obligation" for the less informed of us please?
How did this debt come about  and why is the club responsible for it?

Burden Leisure received funds from the EFL and from transfers (rumoured to be around £13.3 million)

BL (aka Anderson) then "loaned" the £13.3 million money to Inner Circle (aka Anderson)

It is alleged that the £13.3 million then "magically disappeared" from Inner Circle which leaves Anderson in a position to liquidate Inner Circle and BWFC no chance of getting the £13.3 million they "loaned" him back.

Pretty much what Anderson was previously convicted for.

Disclaimers: 

• We don't know if this is true yet. 
  
• If true, we don't know what Anderson did with the money - yet
  
• I am not ready to reiterate my well documented suspicion that Anderson has asset-stripped our club - yet.
  

Thanks for that LUSTY. It's looking grim.

See post 637
God knows what will become of us if any of this is true. As I've said all along, I pray it isn't even though I suspect it might be.

What we've learned today though is -

- Howard is saying Dark Horse has refused at Beechers Brook, due to nothing to land on at the other side of the fence because a super massive Black Hole (I look forward to seeing the programme on BBC1 tonight on them if back in time) of almost £30m.  That being additional to the already known about £29m of secured and unsecured debtors already known about.
- Howards Sceptics club seems to be growing both on here and Team FIBS, one of whose associates stating that Wanderers Ways should take a day off - presumably just in respect of this thread though?
- I guess fuel to the fire was perhaps added in that H now tells us his clients were going to fund Mr Bassini in buying the club but he failed to front up the security on which would allow this to happen - must still be in the drier I guess?
- All is not lost the Allies of presumably Basran and Gaspard could be formed with Dark Horse funding to fight the Axis of evil (if indeed that is what Ken turns out to be) in what will turn out to be a 'slow growth' recovery if successful (I read that as like the ST with no money behind them to speak of style ownership) with Howards client turning their funding to equity in the future when in suits their plan - presumably of developing the land?
- Some dark aspirations about Mr Anderson's character being made by H but he's standing behind the defence of the truth being an accepted defence against possible defamation.  
- As always though a thoroughly absorbing and narrative and one that is keeping us on the edge of our seats!

Will we be saved?  Why did Mr James (Team Basran) pay staff wages, Why hasn't Kane's very insightful post not been addressed?  How big do supermassive grow to?

Tune in tomorrow for the next gripping instalment.