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Club sold!

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721Club sold! - Page 25 Empty Re: Club sold! on Mon Apr 15 2019, 21:10

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
Mark, a fan: "There were many shareholders until ED bought the club. The shares became worthless. Even to this day there are 6.5k shareholders that kept our shares in the club. If you have those numbers - surely the way forward is to do the spadework beforehand and look for pledges of support."
"Why don't we get enough people who are willing to buy shares and then go for a float? I don't think we should just wait for admin to come, we need to hit the ground running."

Tim, a fan, says: "You mentioned about a white knight. Bassini has been batted around and has a three-year plan. Any type of owner that comes in, what role can the trust play?
"Three year plan sounds like a sticking plaster.
"If a new owner is on the table before May, how can the trust make these plans sustainable?"

Maggie Tetlow: "We want to work with any owner to make this club what it was and what it should be.  
"We don't want an owner whose only interest is their own game."

Roger Allanson: "We've been approached by potential buyers who have engaged with the trust and see it as a way forward.
"Some clubs have a memorandum of understanding, which some clubs have.
"The EFL say if you qualify, you qualify. There's no monitoring, no calling to account for financial info. They stand back and say it's nothing to do with us. They are not a governing body.
"I have an office in Watford and some of the people can tell us a few stories down there. But if he has the money, he's in."

Pete, a fan: "If club goes into admin, is Ken gone for good?"


Terrence Rigby: "He wouldn't be running it any more. He might have claims and he might even buy it out of admin."
Fan adds that people don't want to put money in while KA is here.
Terrence: "We may have to take money on trust, based on it being taken when there is no Ken Anderson."

Another fan... Didn't catch his name.
"If you buy out of admin, as a trust, put it out as a public offering. There must be enough people who are still shareholders who would do it again to save the place. But not while Ken is there."

Linda, a fan, says: "If EFL are only competition organisers, why are they doing the fit and proper person test and not a governing body? Can we do something about it... All the clubs."

Roger Allanson: "They simply have a set of rules and once you are in the club, short of a criminal offence, promotion or relegation, you stay there."
Linda adds that a higher authority should be making that decision.
Roger: "Coventry, Blackpool, Port Vale etc... they side-step it and say they are the competition organiser.
"They did say FA are involved at that level. Maybe the MPs can help us there?"

Maggie Tetlow says it will take central government to change things. It will take pressure and change to come from them because these groups won't reform themselves.

Andy, from the Blackpool ST - talks about protests.
"Our trust looked after all the governance. Trusts tend to be older, more professional people. It was interesting to see younger fans formed different organisations, pushing in the same direction."
Explains how they worked with Tangerine Knights etc, who used social media well.  
"We started organising protests, got stewards and did it legitimately. We had about 7,000 people marching through the town and it was managed well."

Will Jones, from LoV: "I'm part of one of the larger fan-groups. We're quite happy to work together on that."

Iles - Good to hear.  

Another fan: "Everyone has given the EFL a kicking. High net worths are not queueing around the block. If the EFL take action against individuals the queue would be smaller. What would the trusts say to that?"

Terrence Rigby: "We only want a small queue. someone who is decent and credible. Putting people off who are fearful the EFL will discipline them doesn't worry me."

Peter, a fan: "I've been a trust member for 12-18 months. I was gobsmacked at how many factions and groups there are.  
"Fans have to stick together. You need a professional organisation who can be persuasive.
"One of the concerns I have is: 'What have you achieved? You can't speak with the owner?'
"A membership of 3.5k. Ken has said why should I speak to you and not everyone else?
"That was clearly an excuse to write his musings..."

Peter calls on people to try and get all the different factions together.
"Separately you are never going to achieve anything.
"The trust need credibility. It doesn't stop other groups doing what they want to do but they need a common agenda."

Craig, a fan: "I'm an avid reader of chairman's notes.
"Ken said he'd been approached by Terrence, implying there had been an offer made. What was it?"

Terrence: "I didn't say anything to Ken at all. I emailed his barrister, which he immediately 'ratted on' if I can put it that way.
"I said if you are finding difficulty persuading the judge not to wind the club up you could add that the trust would like the opportunity to make representations as to why you shouldn't."
Says they would have suggested to the judge that the trust would have tried to raise funds to avoid winding up. Ken thought I was offering him a pile of money.

Fan: "Thanks to the trust for the ACV"
Round of applause.

One fan asks how they could stop Bassini taking over.

General consensus is that we can't...

Asks: "On Mike James, a lifelong fan who was in the FV consortium - have we engaged with him?"

Terrence: "We have tried to engage with everyone. We have with Mike, Kier Gordon, not much with Brett but he doesn't seem to be playing a leading role.
"If they have a plan, we will help them."
Trust member adds: "The fact they are not here tonight speaks volumes. These people are supposedly big fans. The Davies family on behalf of their late father... Those guys we have just mentioned, we didn't even get a statement from them."

[I would have thought that was telling you something about how they viewed the current ST set up imo - Sluffy]

Discussing the idea of launching a fundraising effort and opening things up for high net worths to put more in.

"Together we're stronger, the more pressure we can put on people and raise money to push forward."

Nigel, a fan: "You identified that the EFL said we had the wherewithal to see the season out.
"Given BWFC earn £15m a year in football income, £1.25m a month, where does the money go?"

Roger Allanson: "Shaun Harvey was concerned to say while the EFL set up basic rules they don't spend it for you. Once you are in, you are in.
"He repeatedly said he has the money. It doesn't appear he's spending it here."

Adrian, a fan: "We don't actually know the true financial position of the club at the moment. It wasn't so long ago KA was announcing 17/18 accounts would show a small profit. Those accounts are now overdue.  "There seem to  be more and more creditors coming out of the woodwork."

Roger Allanson: "We haven't."

James, a fan: "Eddie Davies - how much do we owe him? In my opinion he isn't the hero we make him out to be? How much of the money is putting owners off?"

Terrence Rigby: "One day we might find out."

Fan asks: "How are we going to get someone with the funds to buy the club out of admin?"

Terrence Rigby calls for websites etc to see if trust can boost its younger membership with a view to seeing how far they could push a fundraising effort.

That concludes things for the night. Lot to digest there.

Maggie Tetlow confirms that the trust are having elections in June. Encourages people to get involved, or in the steering group.

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722Club sold! - Page 25 Empty Re: Club sold! on Mon Apr 15 2019, 22:48

karlypants

karlypants
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Thanks Sluffy.

723Club sold! - Page 25 Empty Re: Club sold! on Mon Apr 15 2019, 23:48

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
What have we learned today?

Been a full day of gems to savour.

- I guess we start at the very beginning of the day when Neil 'did he jump or was he pushed' Bonnar tweeted his alcoholic flavoured comments the club was unsellable.  This came as quite a shock to me as I didn't think anybody followed Mr Blue Moon anymore.
- Then the Hoppy510 taught us that the club had £45m more assets than debts when Anderson took it over (We were actually showing a debt of £186m as per the accounts for that time!) Only £231m wide of the mark!
- Followed by Lofthouse's call for 10,000 fans putting £5k of their family savings EACH into the pot to buy the club when we can't even get 10,000 fans at the club with tickets at £5 each.  Brilliant, why had nobody thought of this plan of action before?

Then this evenings ST Meeting, featuring a cast of not one single person of any relevance to do anything much about anything at all really.  (Bit like all the other ST meetings then).

- The Davies family, Moonshift, Micheal James, Bret Warburton, etc, didn't even send a note that they were even bothered with the evenings farce, which was taken badly by the Chair of the ST, Mr Terrance Rigby, Barrister.  I should have thought a clever person such as he obviously must be, would have reflected on why that might be?  Could it possibly be that these key players in the clubs immediate future don't believe the ST to be creditable?  Nah it couldn't possibly be that surely?
- Mr Rigby had however read some documents and give his considered opinion on some of the winders stuff but didn't really sound convincing as to what he was saying was absolutely correct.  I preferred Howards narrative myself, much better story in the opinion of this mill town boy.  When I was a lad the skyline was full of the mill chimneys before Dibner got to work on them - I'm just flagging up how old I am for later on.
- Then we had Roger Allanson (passed presumably as a fit and proper person by the ST before (and after?) his co-option onto the ST board) chatting about meeting Shaun Harvey the CE of the EFL and talking amongst other things of how people pass the EFL's FFP test criteria. 
- Mr Harvey confirms Ken proved to him the money was there to see us financially through to the end of the season but no one seems to have asked the vital question of Ken being, did he intend to be spending it on the club to make sure we did get to the end of the season. School boy error perhaps? (note another hint of ageism there of a younger kind)
- Then a selection of meaningless questions, to folk without the expertise to actually answer them properly, to the dissatisfaction of the people sat there expecting a miracle solution to everything along the lines of let's go into Administration, not sure who will do it though or will pay for it, then we get rid of Ken and the ST will take us on with Mr Allanson's company he's established for that very purpose.  I'm not sure however if Mr A will set up his own FFP tests for people wanting to be a part of it though?  Anyway well done the audience, easy peasy really, makes you wonder why we've not done these things already?
- Then the big news, the old boys (the ST) and the young guns (Will Jones and the rebel rousers, whose biggest hit so far is Once Around the Stadium, plus supporting acts of Burnden Aces and that other tiny site (who have a tennis ball franchise or something like that?) are going to court each other!  Coffin dodgers and Millennials in a marriage of convenience to save our club.  See all the age references now make sense!

Horray, how could we find ourselves in better hands than these!

All problems solved.

Don't forget the ST elections in June.

What a complete and utter waste of a day.

724Club sold! - Page 25 Empty Re: Club sold! on Tue Apr 16 2019, 08:59

gloswhite

gloswhite
Jay Jay Okocha
Jay Jay Okocha
Sluffy, you cynical old sod, but it did make me laugh. 

Brought home the fact that were still playing on the beach, and we can't see the tsunami coming in. 

As we know, there are unexpected survivors of tsunamis, lets hope this applies to us.

725Club sold! - Page 25 Empty Re: Club sold! on Tue Apr 16 2019, 09:23

Norpig

Norpig
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
All very depressing reading, looks like administration at least and even liquidation comes into play.

Interesting that the EFL claim that the club has enough money to see out the season yet Kenocchio won't actually release it. Is this linked to the frozen bank account i've heard mentioned or is it just Kenocchio being a dick? (I'm going for the latter)

726Club sold! - Page 25 Empty Re: Club sold! on Tue Apr 16 2019, 10:07

Nigelbwfc


Nicolas Anelka
Nicolas Anelka
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:What have we learned today?

Been a full day of gems to savour.

- I guess we start at the very beginning of the day when Neil 'did he jump or was he pushed' Bonnar tweeted his alcoholic flavoured comments the club was unsellable.  This came as quite a shock to me as I didn't think anybody followed Mr Blue Moon anymore.
- Then the Hoppy510 taught us that the club had £45m more assets than debts when Anderson took it over (We were actually showing a debt of £186m as per the accounts for that time!) Only £231m wide of the mark!
- Followed by Lofthouse's call for 10,000 fans putting £5k of their family savings EACH into the pot to buy the club when we can't even get 10,000 fans at the club with tickets at £5 each.  Brilliant, why had nobody thought of this plan of action before?

Then this evenings ST Meeting, featuring a cast of not one single person of any relevance to do anything much about anything at all really.  (Bit like all the other ST meetings then).

- The Davies family, Moonshift, Micheal James, Bret Warburton, etc, didn't even send a note that they were even bothered with the evenings farce, which was taken badly by the Chair of the ST, Mr Terrance Rigby, Barrister.  I should have thought a clever person such as he obviously must be, would have reflected on why that might be?  Could it possibly be that these key players in the clubs immediate future don't believe the ST to be creditable?  Nah it couldn't possibly be that surely?
- Mr Rigby had however read some documents and give his considered opinion on some of the winders stuff but didn't really sound convincing as to what he was saying was absolutely correct.  I preferred Howards narrative myself, much better story in the opinion of this mill town boy.  When I was a lad the skyline was full of the mill chimneys before Dibner got to work on them - I'm just flagging up how old I am for later on.
- Then we had Roger Allanson (passed presumably as a fit and proper person by the ST before (and after?) his co-option onto the ST board) chatting about meeting Shaun Harvey the CE of the EFL and talking amongst other things of how people pass the EFL's FFP test criteria. 
- Mr Harvey confirms Ken proved to him the money was there to see us financially through to the end of the season but no one seems to have asked the vital question of Ken being, did he intend to be spending it on the club to make sure we did get to the end of the season. School boy error perhaps? (note another hint of ageism there of a younger kind)
- Then a selection of meaningless questions, to folk without the expertise to actually answer them properly, to the dissatisfaction of the people sat there expecting a miracle solution to everything along the lines of let's go into Administration, not sure who will do it though or will pay for it, then we get rid of Ken and the ST will take us on with Mr Allanson's company he's established for that very purpose.  I'm not sure however if Mr A will set up his own FFP tests for people wanting to be a part of it though?  Anyway well done the audience, easy peasy really, makes you wonder why we've not done these things already?
- Then the big news, the old boys (the ST) and the young guns (Will Jones and the rebel rousers, whose biggest hit so far is Once Around the Stadium, plus supporting acts of Burnden Aces and that other tiny site (who have a tennis ball franchise or something like that?) are going to court each other!  Coffin dodgers and Millennials in a marriage of convenience to save our club.  See all the age references now make sense!

Horray, how could we find ourselves in better hands than these!

All problems solved.

Don't forget the ST elections in June.

What a complete and utter waste of a day.
If I might add a few points to that summary.

1) Terence Rigby seem to suggest that admin would cost less than £3 million and even had it down to £750,000 at one point.

Howard on the other had put admin as high as £20 to £30 million in one conversation on wanderers ways.

Take your pick. TR seem to intimate that the supporters trust could some how force administration and seize the club.

2) A 'Nigel' (not me - (my god there's another lol)) said the club earn £15 million a year and asked where the money was going. I thought that was patently obvious - players wages, Paying Amos £16k a week, and a number of others are still on relatively high wages.( Okay Connell won't be on high wages but the rest are) as will admin and general bills. Paul Aldridge needs paying, finance directors don't come cheap and then there's Ken.

I was disappointed that, no one seem to point out or want to point out, that other clubs were struggling, Bury, Oxford, and many others are secretly covering up the fact that owners are constantly dipping into their pockets and that football is actually bust.

Derbys owner wants to sell because he can no longer fund it.

The point is wages have to be restructured. A basic plus bonuses.

There were no suggested ways of earning extra income for the football club, no volunteering and positive approach to help get the club back on its feet.

In short it did more to drive a wedge between Ken / new prospective owner than ever before. They may as well had call Ken to his face.

3) Howard mentioned that his group were thinking of selling the car park, near the Whites hotel off to put yet another Hotel on Middlebrook.

I fail to see what good that would do. There's not enough going on in Bolton to justify another Hotel.


What the club needs is a business strategy / plan on the way forward, once the new owner comes in.

Bassini just seems to me that he'd going to do a smaller Eddie Davies and loan the funds until it gets too much utilising any assets in the club. We've already seen the outcome of that. (Boom and bust).

727Club sold! - Page 25 Empty Re: Club sold! on Tue Apr 16 2019, 11:21

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:If I might add a few points to that summary.

1) Terence Rigby seem to suggest that admin would cost less than £3 million and even had it down to £750,000 at one point.

Howard on the other had put admin as high as £20 to £30 million in one conversation on wanderers ways.

Take your pick. TR seem to intimate that the supporters trust could some how force administration and seize the club.

2) A 'Nigel' (not me - (my god there's another lol)) said the club earn £15 million a year and asked where the money was going. I thought that was patently obvious - players wages, Paying Amos £16k a week, and a number of others are still on relatively high wages.( Okay Connell won't be on high wages but the rest are) as will admin and general bills. Paul Aldridge needs paying, finance directors don't come cheap and then there's Ken.

I was disappointed that, no one seem to point out or want to point out, that other clubs were struggling, Bury, Oxford, and many others are secretly covering up the fact that owners are constantly dipping into their pockets and that football is actually bust.

Derbys owner wants to sell because he can no longer fund it.

The point is wages have to be restructured. A basic plus bonuses.

There were no suggested ways of earning extra income for the football club, no volunteering and positive approach to help get the club back on its feet.

In short it did more to drive a wedge between Ken / new prospective owner than ever before. They may as well had call Ken to his face.

3) Howard mentioned that his group were thinking of selling the car park, near the Whites hotel off to put yet another Hotel on Middlebrook.

I fail to see what good that would do. There's not enough going on in Bolton to justify another Hotel.


What the club needs is a business strategy / plan on the way forward, once the new owner comes in.

Bassini just seems to me that he'd going to do a smaller Eddie Davies and loan the funds until it gets too much utilising any assets in the club. We've already seen the outcome of that. (Boom and bust).

I'm not Howard - and he did have an agenda for saying some of the stuff he said - but I would just like to clarify some of the things he said (that seemed factual to me - without ever confirming the details for myself).

Rigby stated that he thought Admin would only cost about £750k - but he's talking about ENTERING Admin - ie the cost of running the club in Admin whilst the Administrator is doing his stuff.

Considering the players wages alone is £600k per month currently, then that would only leave £150k to pay the wages of all the other staff and running costs for the club for the remainder of that month - and even if that is financially feasible, then who is paying the next months £750k, whilst we are still in Admin awaiting a buyer, then the month after that, etc until we do?

H reckoned that a budget of around £3m to cover three months Admin was closer to the mark required.

Who would fund it though?

According to Rigby last night only HMRC and Eddie's family could put the club into Admin and the former only needs £1.2m (so why risk £3m to get it - so they won't be doing it) and Davies family don't want to take the club back and fund Admin because the moment they do they are responsible for all of the other clubs debts that again exceed the £8m they are seeking to recover.

H also pointed out that secured creditors such as James and Warburton, plus Anderson as club owner could also put the club into Admin - James and Anderson knows they will get their money back in liquidation - so why would they want to throw another £3m into Admin which wouldn't be returnable - and Anderson would lose control over the club (and a future potential pay off for himself) if he went down that road.

The £25m or so H talked about for Admin was for the club to EXIT Administration, being the need for whoever takes on the club to be able to pay all secured creditors 100% of the monies they are owed and 25% of all unsecured debtors as per the EFL's regulations.

To be honest it really is a very poor show that the ST hasn't seemed to have done the most basic of checks around the process of Administration on the financial requirements to enter and exit the process - for something that has been stirring the club full in the face for the last several weeks at the very least.

I'm extremely surprised that a Barrister, which Rigby is, hasn't had himself fully briefed about such things before putting himself in the public spotlight and discussing such matters in an open forum.  I would have thought with his profession and training that would have been the very least he would do.

As for H's other remarks about the possible land use, reading between the lines the value of the land is to develop it for housing, but as I understand it the land (car park, etc) isn't designated under planning consent for anything other than commercial development.

Maybe H was 'suggesting' the land could be used to 'build' another hotel but wouldn't it be nice if planning permissions were changed to allow domestic use, whilst they were waiting to build the hotel!  I'm not suggesting anything untoward btw, merely that shopping habits have changed in the last 20 years or so and that less commercial land is now needed and more residential development land is.  It seems a reasonable proposition to build domestic housing so close to existing infra structure (road, rail and motorway link) on an out of town shopping area where people actually go less and less to visit.

I like to think I've done Howard justice in putting over his comments, as I have understood them, to answer a couple of your points above.

728Club sold! - Page 25 Empty Re: Club sold! on Tue Apr 16 2019, 11:43

Nigelbwfc


Nicolas Anelka
Nicolas Anelka
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:If I might add a few points to that summary.

1) Terence Rigby seem to suggest that admin would cost less than £3 million and even had it down to £750,000 at one point.

Howard on the other had put admin as high as £20 to £30 million in one conversation on wanderers ways.

Take your pick. TR seem to intimate that the supporters trust could some how force administration and seize the club.

2) A 'Nigel' (not me - (my god there's another lol)) said the club earn £15 million a year and asked where the money was going. I thought that was patently obvious - players wages, Paying Amos £16k a week, and a number of others are still on relatively high wages.( Okay Connell won't be on high wages but the rest are) as will admin and general bills. Paul Aldridge needs paying, finance directors don't come cheap and then there's Ken.

I was disappointed that, no one seem to point out or want to point out, that other clubs were struggling, Bury, Oxford, and many others are secretly covering up the fact that owners are constantly dipping into their pockets and that football is actually bust.

Derbys owner wants to sell because he can no longer fund it.

The point is wages have to be restructured. A basic plus bonuses.

There were no suggested ways of earning extra income for the football club, no volunteering and positive approach to help get the club back on its feet.

In short it did more to drive a wedge between Ken / new prospective owner than ever before. They may as well had call Ken to his face.

3) Howard mentioned that his group were thinking of selling the car park, near the Whites hotel off to put yet another Hotel on Middlebrook.

I fail to see what good that would do. There's not enough going on in Bolton to justify another Hotel.


What the club needs is a business strategy / plan on the way forward, once the new owner comes in.

Bassini just seems to me that he'd going to do a smaller Eddie Davies and loan the funds until it gets too much utilising any assets in the club. We've already seen the outcome of that. (Boom and bust).

I'm not Howard - and he did have an agenda for saying some of the stuff he said - but I would just like to clarify some of the things he said (that seemed factual to me - without ever confirming the details for myself).

Rigby stated that he thought Admin would only cost about £750k - but he's talking about ENTERING Admin - ie the cost of running the club in Admin whilst the Administrator is doing his stuff.

Considering the players wages alone is £600k per month currently, then that would only leave £150k to pay the wages of all the other staff and running costs for the club for the remainder of that month - and even if that is financially feasible, then who is paying the next months £750k, whilst we are still in Admin awaiting a buyer, then the month after that, etc until we do?

H reckoned that a budget of around £3m to cover three months Admin was closer to the mark required.

Who would fund it though?

According to Rigby last night only HMRC and Eddie's family could put the club into Admin and the former only needs £1.2m (so why risk £3m to get it - so they won't be doing it) and Davies family don't want to take the club back and fund Admin because the moment they do they are responsible for all of the other clubs debts that again exceed the £8m they are seeking to recover.

H also pointed out that secured creditors such as James and Warburton, plus Anderson as club owner could also put the club into Admin - James and Anderson knows they will get their money back in liquidation - so why would they want to throw another £3m into Admin which wouldn't be returnable - and Anderson would lose control over the club (and a future potential pay off for himself) if he went down that road.

The £25m or so H talked about for Admin was for the club to EXIT Administration, being the need for whoever takes on the club to be able to pay all secured creditors 100% of the monies they are owed and 25% of all unsecured debtors as per the EFL's regulations.

To be honest it really is a very poor show that the ST hasn't seemed to have done the most basic of checks around the process of Administration on the financial requirements to enter and exit the process - for something that has been stirring the club full in the face for the last several weeks at the very least.

I'm extremely surprised that a Barrister, which Rigby is, hasn't had himself fully briefed about such things before putting himself in the public spotlight and discussing such matters in an open forum.  I would have thought with his profession and training that would have been the very least he would do.

As for H's other remarks about the possible land use, reading between the lines the value of the land is to develop it for housing, but as I understand it the land (car park, etc) isn't designated under planning consent for anything other than commercial development.

Maybe H was 'suggesting' the land could be used to 'build' another hotel but wouldn't it be nice if planning permissions were changed to allow domestic use, whilst they were waiting to build the hotel!  I'm not suggesting anything untoward btw, merely that shopping habits have changed in the last 20 years or so and that less commercial land is now needed and more residential development land is.  It seems a reasonable proposition to build domestic housing so close to existing infra structure (road, rail and motorway link) on an out of town shopping area where people actually go less and less to visit.

I like to think I've done Howard justice in putting over his comments, as I have understood them, to answer a couple of your points above.
Will people want to live so close to a stadium with possible hooliganism? Housing would also kill any pop concerts and extra revenue that the club can obtain. No one will want to live next door to a lot of noise. There'll suddenly be increased objection to noise levels.

Howard definitely mentioned the hotel idea and again without events, it's useless.

Selling off land now deals with the short term problems, but it doesn't deal with the long term problems. Mainly the further we sink the less people turn up.

The club needs footfall 7 days a week. There needs to be events on to get people up and visiting when matches are not on. The club needs people spending money at the stadium.

The club also need more ethnic minorities turning up. 

The club is dieing a slow painful death. I can't see Howard's plan working in the long term and we could end up with less assets and nothing to sell off when we go bankrupt again. 

The club has a history of going bust. I don't see Howard's plan as anything more than short termism.

729Club sold! - Page 25 Empty Re: Club sold! on Tue Apr 16 2019, 11:48

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:All very depressing reading, looks like administration at least and even liquidation comes into play.

Interesting that the EFL claim that the club has enough money to see out the season yet Kenocchio won't actually release it. Is this linked to the frozen bank account i've heard mentioned or is it just Kenocchio being a dick? (I'm going for the latter)

Would that be based on believing Anderson is a dick because everybody else on social media is saying it also?

Maybe they are right but as yet there is still no proof about him doing anything illegal.

Someone on here has been banging on and on, and on. and on, etc, for the last TWO YEARS or more that Anderson was here to asset strip because there was apparently £45m assets in the club than debts when Ken took the club on - despite me constantly telling him that we had no assets to strip because Davies had left debt in the club at its sale to prevent such a thing, there were no new charges against assets registered at Companies House, the Car Park sale was done under Trevor Birch and not Anderson. etc, etc.

But of course he knew better than me and has ceaselessly repeated that ad nauseum on here until he completely embarrassed himself over on Wways yesterday where others proved beyond any doubt that he'd been talking out of his arse for all that time.  In fact he was an incredible £231m wrong in what he's been posting all this time!

My point being that it is easy to jump to the wrong conclusions based on nothing more than prejudice and hearsay - which basically is what social media is used by many for.

The facts will come out in the end so let us judge him then and not before - that's my philosophy anyway.

730Club sold! - Page 25 Empty Re: Club sold! on Tue Apr 16 2019, 12:06

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:If I might add a few points to that summary.

1) Terence Rigby seem to suggest that admin would cost less than £3 million and even had it down to £750,000 at one point.

Howard on the other had put admin as high as £20 to £30 million in one conversation on wanderers ways.

Take your pick. TR seem to intimate that the supporters trust could some how force administration and seize the club.

2) A 'Nigel' (not me - (my god there's another lol)) said the club earn £15 million a year and asked where the money was going. I thought that was patently obvious - players wages, Paying Amos £16k a week, and a number of others are still on relatively high wages.( Okay Connell won't be on high wages but the rest are) as will admin and general bills. Paul Aldridge needs paying, finance directors don't come cheap and then there's Ken.

I was disappointed that, no one seem to point out or want to point out, that other clubs were struggling, Bury, Oxford, and many others are secretly covering up the fact that owners are constantly dipping into their pockets and that football is actually bust.

Derbys owner wants to sell because he can no longer fund it.

The point is wages have to be restructured. A basic plus bonuses.

There were no suggested ways of earning extra income for the football club, no volunteering and positive approach to help get the club back on its feet.

In short it did more to drive a wedge between Ken / new prospective owner than ever before. They may as well had call Ken to his face.

3) Howard mentioned that his group were thinking of selling the car park, near the Whites hotel off to put yet another Hotel on Middlebrook.

I fail to see what good that would do. There's not enough going on in Bolton to justify another Hotel.


What the club needs is a business strategy / plan on the way forward, once the new owner comes in.

Bassini just seems to me that he'd going to do a smaller Eddie Davies and loan the funds until it gets too much utilising any assets in the club. We've already seen the outcome of that. (Boom and bust).

I'm not Howard - and he did have an agenda for saying some of the stuff he said - but I would just like to clarify some of the things he said (that seemed factual to me - without ever confirming the details for myself).

Rigby stated that he thought Admin would only cost about £750k - but he's talking about ENTERING Admin - ie the cost of running the club in Admin whilst the Administrator is doing his stuff.

Considering the players wages alone is £600k per month currently, then that would only leave £150k to pay the wages of all the other staff and running costs for the club for the remainder of that month - and even if that is financially feasible, then who is paying the next months £750k, whilst we are still in Admin awaiting a buyer, then the month after that, etc until we do?

H reckoned that a budget of around £3m to cover three months Admin was closer to the mark required.

Who would fund it though?

According to Rigby last night only HMRC and Eddie's family could put the club into Admin and the former only needs £1.2m (so why risk £3m to get it - so they won't be doing it) and Davies family don't want to take the club back and fund Admin because the moment they do they are responsible for all of the other clubs debts that again exceed the £8m they are seeking to recover.

H also pointed out that secured creditors such as James and Warburton, plus Anderson as club owner could also put the club into Admin - James and Anderson knows they will get their money back in liquidation - so why would they want to throw another £3m into Admin which wouldn't be returnable - and Anderson would lose control over the club (and a future potential pay off for himself) if he went down that road.

The £25m or so H talked about for Admin was for the club to EXIT Administration, being the need for whoever takes on the club to be able to pay all secured creditors 100% of the monies they are owed and 25% of all unsecured debtors as per the EFL's regulations.

To be honest it really is a very poor show that the ST hasn't seemed to have done the most basic of checks around the process of Administration on the financial requirements to enter and exit the process - for something that has been stirring the club full in the face for the last several weeks at the very least.

I'm extremely surprised that a Barrister, which Rigby is, hasn't had himself fully briefed about such things before putting himself in the public spotlight and discussing such matters in an open forum.  I would have thought with his profession and training that would have been the very least he would do.

As for H's other remarks about the possible land use, reading between the lines the value of the land is to develop it for housing, but as I understand it the land (car park, etc) isn't designated under planning consent for anything other than commercial development.

Maybe H was 'suggesting' the land could be used to 'build' another hotel but wouldn't it be nice if planning permissions were changed to allow domestic use, whilst they were waiting to build the hotel!  I'm not suggesting anything untoward btw, merely that shopping habits have changed in the last 20 years or so and that less commercial land is now needed and more residential development land is.  It seems a reasonable proposition to build domestic housing so close to existing infra structure (road, rail and motorway link) on an out of town shopping area where people actually go less and less to visit.

I like to think I've done Howard justice in putting over his comments, as I have understood them, to answer a couple of your points above.

Will people want to live so close to a stadium with possible hooliganism? Housing would also kill any pop concerts and extra revenue that the club can obtain. No one will want to live next door to a lot of noise. There'll suddenly be increased objection to noise levels.

Howard definitely mentioned the hotel idea and again without events, it's useless.

Selling off land now deals with the short term problems, but it doesn't deal with the long term problems. Mainly the further we sink the less people turn up.

The club needs footfall 7 days a week. There needs to be events on to get people up and visiting when matches are not on. The club needs people spending money at the stadium.

The club also need more ethnic minorities turning up. 

The club is dieing a slow painful death. I can't see Howard's plan working in the long term and we could end up with less assets and nothing to sell off when we go bankrupt again. 

The club has a history of going bust. I don't see Howard's plan as anything more than short termism.

I think you are working on the premise that the people who can afford to buy the club have any long term plans for it.

The land and it's development is worth very much more to businessmen than a potential lower league (non league even) club with around 10,000 fans attending around 30 days a year brining in revenue of around just £3m (as per the clubs latest accounts).

Financially it simply doesn't stack up.

Don't be surprised that in twenty years time or so we won't have a club playing at the UnioBol, and the land and possibly even the stadium redeveloped for residential use.

Maybe a deal could be brokered for a new smaller stadium being built closer to the town as part of the sale of land to a big property developer.

The immediate future looks to be one of a ST type take over of people with limited funds simply trying to save and stabilise the club financially which will mean little/non investment in the team on the pitch and life in the lower divisions - and consequently attracting lower crowds - and the costs of running a largely empty stadium becoming more and more prohibitive.

Either that or liquidation I guess.

731Club sold! - Page 25 Empty Re: Club sold! on Tue Apr 16 2019, 12:18

T.R.O.Y


Andy Walker
Andy Walker
You don’t have to be a dick to break the law. And you don’t need to break the law to be dick.

Give it a rest in your defence of any Anderson criticism, until the accounts come out you don’t know any more than the rest of us and we’re all free to speculate. Particularly given the state of the club his tenure has overseen.

732Club sold! - Page 25 Empty Re: Club sold! on Tue Apr 16 2019, 12:34

Norpig

Norpig
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:You don’t have to be a dick to break the law. And you don’t need to break the law to be dick.

Give it a rest in your defence of any Anderson criticism, until the accounts come out you don’t know any more than the rest of us and we’re all free to speculate. Particularly given the state of the club his tenure has overseen.
:agree:

733Club sold! - Page 25 Empty Re: Club sold! on Tue Apr 16 2019, 13:06

boltonbonce

boltonbonce
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:You don’t have to be a dick to break the law. And you don’t need to break the law to be dick.

Give it a rest in your defence of any Anderson criticism, until the accounts come out you don’t know any more than the rest of us and we’re all free to speculate. Particularly given the state of the club his tenure has overseen.
:agree:
Couldn't agree more.

734Club sold! - Page 25 Empty Re: Club sold! on Tue Apr 16 2019, 13:27

Nigelbwfc


Nicolas Anelka
Nicolas Anelka
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:If I might add a few points to that summary.

1) Terence Rigby seem to suggest that admin would cost less than £3 million and even had it down to £750,000 at one point.

Howard on the other had put admin as high as £20 to £30 million in one conversation on wanderers ways.

Take your pick. TR seem to intimate that the supporters trust could some how force administration and seize the club.

2) A 'Nigel' (not me - (my god there's another lol)) said the club earn £15 million a year and asked where the money was going. I thought that was patently obvious - players wages, Paying Amos £16k a week, and a number of others are still on relatively high wages.( Okay Connell won't be on high wages but the rest are) as will admin and general bills. Paul Aldridge needs paying, finance directors don't come cheap and then there's Ken.

I was disappointed that, no one seem to point out or want to point out, that other clubs were struggling, Bury, Oxford, and many others are secretly covering up the fact that owners are constantly dipping into their pockets and that football is actually bust.

Derbys owner wants to sell because he can no longer fund it.

The point is wages have to be restructured. A basic plus bonuses.

There were no suggested ways of earning extra income for the football club, no volunteering and positive approach to help get the club back on its feet.

In short it did more to drive a wedge between Ken / new prospective owner than ever before. They may as well had call Ken to his face.

3) Howard mentioned that his group were thinking of selling the car park, near the Whites hotel off to put yet another Hotel on Middlebrook.

I fail to see what good that would do. There's not enough going on in Bolton to justify another Hotel.


What the club needs is a business strategy / plan on the way forward, once the new owner comes in.

Bassini just seems to me that he'd going to do a smaller Eddie Davies and loan the funds until it gets too much utilising any assets in the club. We've already seen the outcome of that. (Boom and bust).

I'm not Howard - and he did have an agenda for saying some of the stuff he said - but I would just like to clarify some of the things he said (that seemed factual to me - without ever confirming the details for myself).

Rigby stated that he thought Admin would only cost about £750k - but he's talking about ENTERING Admin - ie the cost of running the club in Admin whilst the Administrator is doing his stuff.

Considering the players wages alone is £600k per month currently, then that would only leave £150k to pay the wages of all the other staff and running costs for the club for the remainder of that month - and even if that is financially feasible, then who is paying the next months £750k, whilst we are still in Admin awaiting a buyer, then the month after that, etc until we do?

H reckoned that a budget of around £3m to cover three months Admin was closer to the mark required.

Who would fund it though?

According to Rigby last night only HMRC and Eddie's family could put the club into Admin and the former only needs £1.2m (so why risk £3m to get it - so they won't be doing it) and Davies family don't want to take the club back and fund Admin because the moment they do they are responsible for all of the other clubs debts that again exceed the £8m they are seeking to recover.

H also pointed out that secured creditors such as James and Warburton, plus Anderson as club owner could also put the club into Admin - James and Anderson knows they will get their money back in liquidation - so why would they want to throw another £3m into Admin which wouldn't be returnable - and Anderson would lose control over the club (and a future potential pay off for himself) if he went down that road.

The £25m or so H talked about for Admin was for the club to EXIT Administration, being the need for whoever takes on the club to be able to pay all secured creditors 100% of the monies they are owed and 25% of all unsecured debtors as per the EFL's regulations.

To be honest it really is a very poor show that the ST hasn't seemed to have done the most basic of checks around the process of Administration on the financial requirements to enter and exit the process - for something that has been stirring the club full in the face for the last several weeks at the very least.

I'm extremely surprised that a Barrister, which Rigby is, hasn't had himself fully briefed about such things before putting himself in the public spotlight and discussing such matters in an open forum.  I would have thought with his profession and training that would have been the very least he would do.

As for H's other remarks about the possible land use, reading between the lines the value of the land is to develop it for housing, but as I understand it the land (car park, etc) isn't designated under planning consent for anything other than commercial development.

Maybe H was 'suggesting' the land could be used to 'build' another hotel but wouldn't it be nice if planning permissions were changed to allow domestic use, whilst they were waiting to build the hotel!  I'm not suggesting anything untoward btw, merely that shopping habits have changed in the last 20 years or so and that less commercial land is now needed and more residential development land is.  It seems a reasonable proposition to build domestic housing so close to existing infra structure (road, rail and motorway link) on an out of town shopping area where people actually go less and less to visit.

I like to think I've done Howard justice in putting over his comments, as I have understood them, to answer a couple of your points above.

Will people want to live so close to a stadium with possible hooliganism? Housing would also kill any pop concerts and extra revenue that the club can obtain. No one will want to live next door to a lot of noise. There'll suddenly be increased objection to noise levels.

Howard definitely mentioned the hotel idea and again without events, it's useless.

Selling off land now deals with the short term problems, but it doesn't deal with the long term problems. Mainly the further we sink the less people turn up.

The club needs footfall 7 days a week. There needs to be events on to get people up and visiting when matches are not on. The club needs people spending money at the stadium.

The club also need more ethnic minorities turning up. 

The club is dieing a slow painful death. I can't see Howard's plan working in the long term and we could end up with less assets and nothing to sell off when we go bankrupt again. 

The club has a history of going bust. I don't see Howard's plan as anything more than short termism.

I think you are working on the premise that the people who can afford to buy the club have any long term plans for it.

The land and it's development is worth very much more to businessmen than a potential lower league (non league even) club with around 10,000 fans attending around 30 days a year brining in revenue of around just £3m (as per the clubs latest accounts).

Financially it simply doesn't stack up.

Don't be surprised that in twenty years time or so we won't have a club playing at the UnioBol, and the land and possibly even the stadium redeveloped for residential use.

Maybe a deal could be brokered for a new smaller stadium being built closer to the town as part of the sale of land to a big property developer.

The immediate future looks to be one of a ST type take over of people with limited funds simply trying to save and stabilise the club financially which will mean little/non investment in the team on the pitch and life in the lower divisions - and consequently attracting lower crowds - and the costs of running a largely empty stadium becoming more and more prohibitive.

Either that or liquidation I guess.
In that case I'd prefer liquidation. At least we could give the club a good burial.

Rather that, than some pensioners thinking that as long as the club survives while they're alive, then that's all that matters.

735Club sold! - Page 25 Empty Re: Club sold! on Tue Apr 16 2019, 14:16

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:You don’t have to be a dick to break the law. And you don’t need to break the law to be dick.

Give it a rest in your defence of any Anderson criticism, until the accounts come out you don’t know any more than the rest of us and we’re all free to speculate. Particularly given the state of the club his tenure has overseen.
:agree:
Couldn't agree more.

Fwiw I said it was the misrepresentation of so called 'fake' facts/lies that I was - and have always - been against and the need to judge him on the real facts when they are eventually known.

What is remotely controversial about that?

How many people have believed (even began to think) Anderson might well has been asset stripping when some nutjob has been stating as 'facts' for the last two years or more that he'd got available to him £45m in the club to plunder?

Wanderlust has been saying that and I've been picking him up about it for all that time yet in some peoples warped views that was fine for Wanderlust to do so (without any proof whatsoever to back up his claims - and repeatedly ignoring others (apart from myself) challenging him to back up his claim) - yet I was somehow in the wrong contradicting him and even go so far as to provide links to there being no such charges against the clubs assets at Companies House and details of the car park sale under Davies regime and not Anderson's?

Throw enough mud and some of it is bound to stick.

Well the actual details are that the club was in fact £186m in debt than assets available!!!

Christ I've never said Anderson was a saint and he well maybe a dick also but he's certainly not guilty of some of the wildest and spurious claims made against him by people who have already tried, judged and hung the man without any scrap of evidence apart from their own prejudices and the hearsay of others as equally prejudiced against him.

Did Anderson have access to £45m of assets when he took over the club like Wanderlust has been banging on about for the last two years and more?

No he didn't.

Wanderlust was out by £231 million!

Yet I am the one wrong in some peoples eyes because I've been calling him out for the last couple of years and been saying that the facts simply aren't supporting what he was stating to be the case?

There's one or two on here who clearly need to give their heads a good shake.

Can't believe some of you prefer the lynch mob rather than seeking out the truth.

736Club sold! - Page 25 Empty Re: Club sold! on Tue Apr 16 2019, 16:32

Norpig

Norpig
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
You're the one who needs to give their head a good shake Sluffy. You know no more than anyone  else on here but seem to think you do.
We all have our own opinions and last time i checked a forum is the place to air these opinions. We don't come on here to be talked down to and ridiculed by you.

You say you're not a fan of KA but you back him on every decision, one day we will find out the truth behind this whole sorry mess and you may be proved to be right but please stop with mud slinging especially at Lusty.

737Club sold! - Page 25 Empty Re: Club sold! on Tue Apr 16 2019, 17:29

gloswhite

gloswhite
Jay Jay Okocha
Jay Jay Okocha
Bloody hell Mr Pig, you're going to set them both off again ! Very Happy

738Club sold! - Page 25 Empty Re: Club sold! on Tue Apr 16 2019, 18:44

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:You're the one who needs to give their head a good shake Sluffy. You know no more than anyone  else on here but seem to think you do.
We all have our own opinions and last time i checked a forum is the place to air these opinions. We don't come on here to be talked down to and ridiculed by you.

You say you're not a fan of KA but you back him on every decision, one day we will find out the truth behind this whole sorry mess and you may be proved to be right but please stop with mud slinging especially at Lusty.

No I don't back Anderson on every decision but I guess it looks like I probably do when I'm not joining in with everyone else giving him a good kicking over something that people believe without a shred of actual proof.

I'm actual in the middle ground waiting for the facts and figures to come out to see what as actually gone on, as it happens.

I doubt there is anyone on actually supports Ken and everybody else in the main seems to be set dead against him - so yes I can see why you and others view me like that but the reality is that there is a massive anti-Anderson vibe with most people and if me - and a few more rational others seeking the truth of the matter isn't part of it - then it must be us who are the weirdo's, the extremists, the loonies.

All I've done is to keep Nuts to be free as I can of unsubstantiated bullshit and free from potentially libellous remarks.

Like it or not Wanderlust has been posting his unsubstantiated comments and abuse on Nuts for the best part of three years now - and completely ignored me (and others) who have asked him to back up his comments and insinuations.

Well the wheels came off big time for him yesterday on Wways where he was proved to be spouting bullshit and publicly embarrassed showing that he couldn't even understand basic accounts - even though the details had been put in front of him.

He couldn't even be man enough to put his hand up a accept he'd made a mistake, or got it wrong - how hard would that have been to do?

I don't mind people having opinions and there's nothing bad about getting things wrong from time to time - we all do that - but what I have objected to is three years relentless abuse and bullshit without any facts whatsoever to back his preconceived, prejudiced, and clearly biased rantings against Anderson without anything to back up what he was claiming.

It takes something really special to be £231 million wrong about anything - even when I for one had told him Davies had left debt in the accounts to prevent any asset stripping - but oh no, he knew best.

Well clearly he doesn't and maybe his experience on Wways may make him change his ways for the better.

I doubt it will though.

739Club sold! - Page 25 Empty Re: Club sold! on Tue Apr 16 2019, 18:52

observer


Andy Walker
Andy Walker
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:You're the one who needs to give their head a good shake Sluffy. You know no more than anyone  else on here but seem to think you do.
We all have our own opinions and last time i checked a forum is the place to air these opinions. We don't come on here to be talked down to and ridiculed by you.

You say you're not a fan of KA but you back him on every decision, one day we will find out the truth behind this whole sorry mess and you may be proved to be right but please stop with mud slinging especially at Lusty.

No I don't back Anderson on every decision but I guess it looks like I probably do when I'm not joining in with everyone else giving him a good kicking over something that people believe without a shred of actual proof.

I'm actual in the middle ground waiting for the facts and figures to come out to see what as actually gone on, as it happens.

I doubt there is anyone on actually supports Ken and everybody else in the main seems to be set dead against him - so yes I can see why you and others view me like that but the reality is that there is a massive anti-Anderson vibe with most people and if me - and a few more rational others seeking the truth of the matter isn't part of it - then it must be us who are the weirdo's, the extremists, the loonies.

All I've done is to keep Nuts to be free as I can of unsubstantiated bullshit and free from potentially libellous remarks.

Like it or not Wanderlust has been posting his unsubstantiated comments and abuse on Nuts for the best part of three years now - and completely ignored me (and others) who have asked him to back up his comments and insinuations.

Well the wheels came off big time for him yesterday on Wways where he was proved to be spouting bullshit and publicly embarrassed showing that he couldn't even understand basic accounts - even though the details had been put in front of him.

He couldn't even be man enough to put his hand up a accept he'd made a mistake, or got it wrong - how hard would that have been to do?

I don't mind people having opinions and there's nothing bad about getting things wrong from time to time - we all do that - but what I have objected to is three years relentless abuse and bullshit without any facts whatsoever to back his preconceived, prejudiced, and clearly biased rantings against Anderson without anything to back up what he was claiming.

It takes something really special to be £231 million wrong about anything - even when I for one had told him Davies had left debt in the accounts to prevent any asset stripping - but oh no, he knew best.

Well clearly he doesn't and maybe his experience on Wways may make him change his ways for the better.

I doubt it will though.
I gave him the benefit of the doubt until he blatantly lied about paying the salaries out of his pocket... and to find out that was not the truth.

740Club sold! - Page 25 Empty Re: Club sold! on Tue Apr 16 2019, 18:58

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:I gave him the benefit of the doubt until he blatantly lied about paying the salaries out of his pocket... and to find out that was not the truth.

I think it is widely accepted that he did pay the players February salaries out of his own funds.

I suspect he will end up paying the players March salaries as well.

Whether those funds should have been in the club in the first place though is a different matter!

741Club sold! - Page 25 Empty Re: Club sold! on Tue Apr 16 2019, 19:05

T.R.O.Y


Andy Walker
Andy Walker
Struggle to see how paying yourself half a million in consultancy fees is acceptable while the clubs going through such a torrid time.

Each to their own of course.

742Club sold! - Page 25 Empty Re: Club sold! on Tue Apr 16 2019, 19:34

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:Struggle to see how paying yourself half a million in consultancy fees is acceptable while the clubs going through such a torrid time.

Each to their own of course.

That was from two seasons ago - and some believe it was basically a ruse to pay off Holdsworth and acquire his shares more than lining his own pockets.

Maybe he's taken the same or even more in the next accounts - who knows until we see them - but everyone and his dog seems convinced (without proof) that he has.

Even if he has it would seem the accounts including payment for whatever he took out, will show a small trading surplus.

My point yet again is that the vast majority of people have already decided what Anderson has done - yet have no actual proof that he is actually done anything.

Even if he has, the club if we are to believe what has been flagged up previously (on the back of Madine's transfer) should show a profit for that years account, then what exactly has he done wrong - don't you take a wage for the work you do, I certainly do.

Has he actually paid himself anything in this season's accounting period - have you proof to say he has or are you just guessing and making up your own story like most everyone else seems to be doing?

The bloke may well be guilty of everything he's been accused of but I thought you more than most would be arguing alongside me that any man/woman is innocent until proven guilty - and that's all basically that I've been doing and saying all along.

743Club sold! - Page 25 Empty Re: Club sold! on Tue Apr 16 2019, 19:42

T.R.O.Y


Andy Walker
Andy Walker
Is the proof he paid himself the fee, not just that the accounts say so? Not sure what more you’re after?



Last edited by T.R.O.Y on Tue Apr 16 2019, 20:46; edited 1 time in total

744Club sold! - Page 25 Empty Re: Club sold! on Tue Apr 16 2019, 19:46

MartinBWFC

MartinBWFC
Frank Worthington
Frank Worthington
One thing is for certain, and that's KA is a fucking charlatan, Shaun Harvey said the club had sufficient funds to finish this season, yet Anderson chooses not to use them to pay staff, some say it's because their account has been frozen, yet still receive monies paid in, how the fuck does that work? Anderson is a fucking slimeball of the highest order.

745Club sold! - Page 25 Empty Re: Club sold! on Tue Apr 16 2019, 20:11

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:One thing is for certain, and that's KA is a fucking charlatan, Shaun Harvey said the club had sufficient funds to finish this season, yet Anderson chooses not to use them to pay staff, some say it's because their account has been frozen, yet still receive monies paid in, how the fuck does that work? Anderson is a fucking slimeball of the highest order.

It works to protect any unscrupulous owner emptying the bank accounts in advance of a winding up petition - pretty standard - and sensible - stuff really.

There is a valid theory that the money is not actually in the clubs account (BWFC/Burnden Leisure) but in Anderson's ICI Ltd account, to ring fence it against anything bad happening to the club - and it is there to square off other creditors such as potential factoring companies.  It's only a theory though as up to now no one has been able to see any security by such companies taken against ICI Ltd assets.

At the end of the day it is a set of simple equations that will give us the answers
- was there ever enough money going into the club to pay off what needed paying.
- if there wasn't, that's why we have hit the buffers now.
- if there was - has any illegal amount been taken out of it that as caused the financial problems now?
- If so the Serious Fraud Office will need to be called in when the books finally become available and action taken.

Until then nobody actually knows what the truth of the matter is - although plenty have already set up lynch mobs.

No amount of name calling or speculation will change anything at all until the truth finally comes out.

It's as simple as that.

746Club sold! - Page 25 Empty Re: Club sold! on Wed Apr 17 2019, 08:45

Norpig

Norpig
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Thanks Sluffy for your overly long reply as usual, but you just can't help yourself can you? Anyone who is anti KA and has a different opinion than you is irrational, a weirdo, an extremist and a loony?  Rolling Eyes

No one is going to be sued on here for voicing an opinion on Kenocchio so stop dressing it up as if you are doing us and the forum a great service. You just don't like people having a different opinion than you, which for someone who basically runs a forum is very worrying.

747Club sold! - Page 25 Empty Re: Club sold! on Wed Apr 17 2019, 12:20

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:Thanks Sluffy for your overly long reply as usual, but you just can't help yourself can you? Anyone who is anti KA and has a different opinion than you is irrational, a weirdo, an extremist and a loony?  Rolling Eyes

No one is going to be sued on here for voicing an opinion on Kenocchio so stop dressing it up as if you are doing us and the forum a great service. You just don't like people having a different opinion than you, which for someone who basically runs a forum is very worrying.

Do you go out of your way to deliberately misunderstand what I say?

I've never said anyone who is anti-Ken is a weirdo, etc - my point is simply to say that those that do are the NORM in this instance and thus the few that AREN'T are viewed as having 'extreme' views compared to most other people.  

It's what we as a society do - it's not a pro or anti Ken thing, we do it in respect of everything.

As for me not liking people having a different opinion than myself, then why is it that after all the years that Nuts as been going that the only person of note to ever have been banned was Bread for abuse and then only after countless opportunities to behave himself?

748Club sold! - Page 25 Empty Re: Club sold! on Wed Apr 17 2019, 12:30

MartinBWFC

MartinBWFC
Frank Worthington
Frank Worthington
Well Anderson's latest notes don't make good reading.

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749Club sold! - Page 25 Empty Re: Club sold! on Wed Apr 17 2019, 12:47

rammywhite

rammywhite
Frank Worthington
Frank Worthington
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:Well Anderson's latest notes don't make good reading.

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Read it and take from it what you will although it indicates a bleak future for BWFC.
I think we may be the first of many. Outside of the Premiership there is no money to be made in owning football clubs and I think we will be the first of many to go to the wall. We'll be used as an example of the folly of club ownership. We will be used as the prime example of why football clubs fail. We might be the catalyst that bring some sanity to the game either in terms of much more money filtering down from the premiership or clubs being run on a better financial footing without the ridiculous salaries that are being paid to players and agents.
I don't know and don't want to know what we are paying our second and third rate players at Bolton but I imagine they are vast in terms of what the average person in the UK earns and its time that sanity is brought to bear in the lower leagues.
I heard on radio that the average salary for a League 2 player is £75,000 a year. That's three time what it should be.
Its time that the nonsense stopped and I think we might be the flag bearer that begins to get some sense into the game.
We'll be a case study for not owning a football club and how to get it disastrously wrong if you do.

750Club sold! - Page 25 Empty Re: Club sold! on Wed Apr 17 2019, 12:54

terenceanne

terenceanne
El Hadji Diouf
El Hadji Diouf
A lot of clubs are struggling and can't compete financially at least. A massive reorganization of the leagues is in order. Regional clubs with salary caps etc......similar to sports in the USA. Never going to happen in my lifetime of course. As I have said before in 25 years the bottom leagues will be virtual amatures and probably gone anyhow. 
Good or bad....football is a business.

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