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So much for parliamentary democracy

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61So much for parliamentary democracy - Page 3 Empty Re: So much for parliamentary democracy on Wed Sep 04 2019, 21:41

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
@boltonbonce wrote:The Brexit party are a flash in the pan. A general election would put the many nut jobs that'll be standing on their particular ticket, under serious media scrutiny, a scrutiny they didn't get at the European election.
It won't be a pretty sight.

They only have to take about 20 to 30 seats off Labour and that combined with the main anti Brexit Tory rebels no longer in a seat will give Johnson the power to do whatever he wants to go about securing Brexit.

The European elections - although meaningless as such, suggests such a target for the Brexit Party would be quite feasible to achieve as many Labour constituency areas voted for the Brexit Party and against Labour.

If the Labour Party wasn't concerned this would happen again at a GE then they would not be hiding behind the position of needing to have a referendum first.

62So much for parliamentary democracy - Page 3 Empty Re: So much for parliamentary democracy on Wed Sep 04 2019, 22:08

T.R.O.Y


Andy Walker
Andy Walker
Haven’t seen Labour ask for a referendum?

63So much for parliamentary democracy - Page 3 Empty Re: So much for parliamentary democracy on Wed Sep 04 2019, 23:03

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
@T.R.O.Y wrote:Haven’t seen Labour ask for a referendum?

You're correct they haven't

I've poorly worded what I'd said due to somewhat muddled thinking by me, so I apologise if I've misled anyone by it.

What I have been attempting to say is a GE with the Brexit Party contesting it could/would be seen by many voters in Labour seats as a second referendum (third if you count the recent EU elections) - ie what would you prefer a straight Brexit now (by voting for the Brexit Party) or several more months of more arguments about it, if you vote Labour as you normally do?

That's why Corbyn/Labour want the GE to be held after the 30th October, otherwise if Johnson wins, as I fully expect he will, he has a clear mandate to do a No Deal exit on that date.

That puts Corbyn in the wilderness for the next five years and would probably mean him stepping down as leader.

That's why he doesn't want to support a no confidence motion until the GE date is to be held after 30th October.

If he was confident of winning the GE then why would he want the date to be after the 30th Oct - ie the election becomes the referendum by default in many voters eyes.

He obviously doesn't think he will win it before October - does he!

64So much for parliamentary democracy - Page 3 Empty Re: So much for parliamentary democracy on Wed Sep 04 2019, 23:12

T.R.O.Y


Andy Walker
Andy Walker
I don’t agree with your assessment to be honest.

The suspicion is Boris wants a General election to waste time and force through a no deal. Corbyn’s reiterated the party stance of no GE until statute preventing no deal is in law.

Once it’s passed, the GE will be on.

65So much for parliamentary democracy - Page 3 Empty Re: So much for parliamentary democracy on Thu Sep 05 2019, 08:36

Norpig

Norpig
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
So much for parliamentary democracy - Page 3 REES-kMBF-U3140347680018gUD-656x492@Corriere-Web-Sezioni

66So much for parliamentary democracy - Page 3 Empty Re: So much for parliamentary democracy on Thu Sep 05 2019, 08:44

bryan458

bryan458
Tony Kelly
Tony Kelly
I think people may be clutching at straws believing that the Tories will smash an election, my guess is that our hung parliament will be even more hung than it was before !!! ..dunno..

67So much for parliamentary democracy - Page 3 Empty Re: So much for parliamentary democracy on Thu Sep 05 2019, 09:42

Hipster_Nebula

Hipster_Nebula
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@T.R.O.Y wrote:Haven’t seen Labour ask for a referendum?

Labours position is to go to Europe to negotiate a deal to leave the EU. 

Then bring it back to the people and tell them to vote against it. 

Have you ever heard anything more stupid.

Why not just be honest with the people and campaign on the genuine position of cancelling brexit.

68So much for parliamentary democracy - Page 3 Empty Re: So much for parliamentary democracy on Thu Sep 05 2019, 13:44

okocha

okocha
Andy Walker
Andy Walker
Instead of using thugs likeTrump as a role model and Cummings as an advisor, Boris should be looking to people like NZ leader Jacinda Arderne as an example of how to govern with genuine compassion and affection for your citizens in engendering a tolerant, inclusive society.

69So much for parliamentary democracy - Page 3 Empty Re: So much for parliamentary democracy on Thu Sep 05 2019, 14:15

Natasha Whittam

Natasha Whittam
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@okocha wrote:Instead of using thugs likeTrump as a role model and Cummings as an advisor, Boris should be looking to people like NZ leader Jacinda Arderne as an example of how to govern with genuine compassion and affection for your citizens in engendering a tolerant, inclusive society.

Do you really think leading NZ is the same as being leader of the US?

70So much for parliamentary democracy - Page 3 Empty Re: So much for parliamentary democracy on Thu Sep 05 2019, 14:44

xmiles

xmiles
Youri Djorkaeff
Youri Djorkaeff
@Sluffy wrote: putting achieving of being in power themselves before the good of the country.

That is the very definition of what Cameron and May did. Membership of the EU was not an issue for anybody apart from a few loonies in the Tory party until Cameron agreed to a referendum. Cameron put party before country and we are all now suffering the consequences.

71So much for parliamentary democracy - Page 3 Empty Re: So much for parliamentary democracy on Thu Sep 05 2019, 15:28

okocha

okocha
Andy Walker
Andy Walker
@Natasha Whittam wrote:
@okocha wrote:Instead of using thugs likeTrump as a role model and Cummings as an advisor, Boris should be looking to people like NZ leader Jacinda Arderne as an example of how to govern with genuine compassion and affection for your citizens in engendering a tolerant, inclusive society.

Do you really think leading NZ is the same as being leader of the US?
You've misunderstood what I wrote, Nat. I'm comparing her leadership with Boris'....the one garnering respect through her dignity, the other behaving like an angry, insulting dictator.   British people don't respond well to bullies.

Trump is mentioned as an example of a thug like Cummings that Boris misguidedly leans on for advice.

72So much for parliamentary democracy - Page 3 Empty Re: So much for parliamentary democracy on Thu Sep 05 2019, 16:24

Cajunboy

Cajunboy
Andy Walker
Andy Walker
Just like Blair leant on that foul-mouthed bully Campbell.

73So much for parliamentary democracy - Page 3 Empty Re: So much for parliamentary democracy on Thu Sep 05 2019, 20:18

wessy

wessy
Andy Walker
Andy Walker
It's a no brainer for Labour, it's essential that any election happens after 31st of October, let Johnson prove his word, he set the line in the sand no one forced him to say we had to be out by then.

 He now realises that he needs an election prior to his promise or he is toast, if he fails then he is just another May making promises he can't keep.  Let him sweat and see how desperate he becomes he's already shouting from the roof tops for an election, loses his majority and his first votes in the house and then his brother fookes off. Brilliant.

74So much for parliamentary democracy - Page 3 Empty Re: So much for parliamentary democracy on Thu Sep 05 2019, 20:36

Natasha Whittam

Natasha Whittam
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@wessy wrote:It's a no brainer for Labour, it's essential that any election happens after 31st of October, let Johnson prove his word, he set the line in the sand no one forced him to say we had to be out by then.

 He now realises that he needs an election prior to his promise or he is toast, if he fails then he is just another May making promises he can't keep.  Let him sweat and see how desperate he becomes he's already shouting from the roof tops for an election, loses his majority and his first votes in the house and then his brother fookes off. Brilliant.

Johnson will walk an election whether it happens in October, November or next year.

People like a strong leader.



75So much for parliamentary democracy - Page 3 Empty Re: So much for parliamentary democracy on Thu Sep 05 2019, 22:36

xmiles

xmiles
Youri Djorkaeff
Youri Djorkaeff
@Natasha Whittam wrote:

People like a strong leader.


That never goes wrong does it. I am sure you can provide your own examples.

76So much for parliamentary democracy - Page 3 Empty Re: So much for parliamentary democracy on Thu Sep 05 2019, 22:40

xmiles

xmiles
Youri Djorkaeff
Youri Djorkaeff

77So much for parliamentary democracy - Page 3 Empty Re: So much for parliamentary democracy on Thu Sep 05 2019, 23:12

okocha

okocha
Andy Walker
Andy Walker
@Natasha Whittam wrote:
Johnson will walk an election whether it happens in October, November or next year.

People like a strong leader.
.....But he's a weak leader, lashing out wildly and abusively, alienating well respected members of his own party with lies, empty rhetoric and  bullying behaviour. People don't like that and I suspect you don't either

78So much for parliamentary democracy - Page 3 Empty Re: So much for parliamentary democracy on Fri Sep 06 2019, 07:54

Hipster_Nebula

Hipster_Nebula
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Haha thornberry confirms on bbcqt last night that she would "get the best deal for Britain" and then campaign against it to remain. 

You honestly couldn't make it up.

79So much for parliamentary democracy - Page 3 Empty Re: So much for parliamentary democracy on Fri Sep 06 2019, 08:03

T.R.O.Y


Andy Walker
Andy Walker
Agree it is a ridiculous position.

Brexit is not the only issue we should be voting on though, although it will be. Can you honestly say a Boris government would be good for this country?

80So much for parliamentary democracy - Page 3 Empty Re: So much for parliamentary democracy on Fri Sep 06 2019, 09:39

Hipster_Nebula

Hipster_Nebula
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Better than a Corbyn government. Without question.

81So much for parliamentary democracy - Page 3 Empty Re: So much for parliamentary democracy on Fri Sep 06 2019, 10:22

wessy

wessy
Andy Walker
Andy Walker
@Sluffy wrote:
@Angry Dad wrote:Taking candy from a baby, these labour lot are pretty much Stupid, can they not see it coming.

Yes they can and that's why they are so desperate to have a second referendum before having the GE.

A normal Labour Party would have been pro EU/Remain all along.

The loonies in control with Corbyn as the leader have mismanaged Brexit all along, hoping to see the Tories destruct following on from Brexit and them staying in power because of it for the next three GE's at least.

Bad, bad, bad miscalculation as well as putting achieving of being in power themselves before the good of the country.
So you don't think the Tories are in crisis !!! they arn't hoping , they are imploding, when a government with a slender majority sack 21 reasonable experienced members, when his own brother ditches him, when a Tory MP walks across the house at his maiden PM questions, i say job done. 

IF the opposition parties sit tight until the Boris deadline then he will break his promise IF that happens then the Brexit mob (can't take them as a party) Will turn on Boris because now he is no better than May in their eyes.

In terms " the good of the country" give me a break, This was a Tory problem Cameron put party before country.Teresa May by stalling all the votes put party before country to keep the right wing nutters on board.

Boris trying to threaten and prorouge  parliament is all aimed at keeping this shameful government in power. Once again putting party before country. 

Taking us out without a deal, again putting the will of the extreme right over whats best for the country.

I voted remain (shock) BUT i am a democrat i would have taken the hit because of the referendum vote. However any one who says they voted for this version is frankly insane.

82So much for parliamentary democracy - Page 3 Empty Re: So much for parliamentary democracy on Fri Sep 06 2019, 10:39

Natasha Whittam

Natasha Whittam
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@wessy wrote:So you don't think the Tories are in crisis !!!

Not at all, I'm actually impressed that Boris went through with his threat to expel MPs that voted against the government. It shows strong leadership. Are you suggesting people should be kept on for disobeying their boss?

Boris will get his election one way or another, and he will beat Corbyn at the polls.

83So much for parliamentary democracy - Page 3 Empty Re: So much for parliamentary democracy on Fri Sep 06 2019, 10:55

wessy

wessy
Andy Walker
Andy Walker
@Natasha Whittam wrote:
@wessy wrote:So you don't think the Tories are in crisis !!!

Not at all, I'm actually impressed that Boris went through with his threat to expel MPs that voted against the government. It shows strong leadership. Are you suggesting people should be kept on for disobeying their boss?

Boris will get his election one way or another, and he will beat Corbyn at the polls.
Your easily impressed, i just see the prat hanging from a zip wire, This is not leadership it's bullying without taking into account consequences. 

I never said Corbyn would win an election, i truly think now normal party politics is fooked. we are looking at hung parliaments from now on in.

Oh and his antics with the police yesterday PM what a joke.

84So much for parliamentary democracy - Page 3 Empty Re: So much for parliamentary democracy on Fri Sep 06 2019, 19:29

T.R.O.Y


Andy Walker
Andy Walker
@Hipster_Nebula wrote:Better than a Corbyn government. Without question.

Anything positive to say about Boris so far though?

85So much for parliamentary democracy - Page 3 Empty Re: So much for parliamentary democracy on Fri Sep 13 2019, 07:45

T.R.O.Y


Andy Walker
Andy Walker
Weirdly quiet on here, can only assume the Brexiteers are too busy raging that an unelected bureaucrat has taken control of our government.

Brexit is all about sovereignty of course.

86So much for parliamentary democracy - Page 3 Empty Re: So much for parliamentary democracy on Fri Sep 13 2019, 13:20

sunlight

sunlight
Nicolas Anelka
Nicolas Anelka
Vaudeville Johnson, the Clown, just needs a backfiring small car and a red fluffy wig. He can get out of the car, in which the door he opens falls off and then he can start making shapes out of balloons for the television cameras. And that is all he does, he has no plans, nothing. He has a long history of making a very very expensive mess out of everything he is in charge of.

87So much for parliamentary democracy - Page 3 Empty Re: So much for parliamentary democracy on Fri Sep 13 2019, 13:54

Cajunboy

Cajunboy
Andy Walker
Andy Walker
So much for parliamentary democracy - Page 3 Unknow13


A winning team???

88So much for parliamentary democracy - Page 3 Empty Re: So much for parliamentary democracy on Fri Sep 13 2019, 14:12

sunlight

sunlight
Nicolas Anelka
Nicolas Anelka
Anything but the Tories.

89So much for parliamentary democracy - Page 3 Empty Re: So much for parliamentary democracy on Sat Sep 14 2019, 00:20

xmiles

xmiles
Youri Djorkaeff
Youri Djorkaeff
@sunlight wrote:Anything but the Tories.

:clap: :clap: :clap:

90So much for parliamentary democracy - Page 3 Empty Re: So much for parliamentary democracy on Sat Sep 14 2019, 13:08

gloswhite

gloswhite
Jay Jay Okocha
Jay Jay Okocha
@sunlight wrote:Vaudeville Johnson, the Clown, just needs a backfiring small car and a red fluffy wig. He can get out of the car, in which the door he opens falls off and then he can start making shapes out of balloons for the television cameras. And that is all he does, he has no plans, nothing. He has a long history of making a very very expensive mess out of everything he is in charge of.

Its nice to see you all making sensible, unbiased comments. 
Unlike the last Labour government, The PM hasn't left the country with a mountain of debt, and nothing in the coffers.  
Some people have a very short memory. Why do you think so many people don't want a Corbyn government?

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