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General Election

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181General Election - Page 7 Empty Re: General Election on Tue Nov 19 2019, 07:50

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@boltonbonce wrote:Anyone voting Green?
Green election pledges are here.

182General Election - Page 7 Empty Re: General Election on Tue Nov 19 2019, 12:34

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@Angry Dad wrote:Yay free broadband for all !!! What a fucking useless cunt corbyn and the rest of them are they face a wipeout at the election which they won't recover from, it is the end of the labour party and not a moment too soon.
General Election - Page 7 75625326_145858860090925_4689740503502028800_n.jpg?_nc_cat=108&_nc_oc=AQkwtDEZnzjjfUzjeVZDVHGzqzUg8tJdnZc9wgsDhxDciwLT4sfdh_gQ8Y0IXyKq1ps&_nc_ht=scontent-lht6-1

183General Election - Page 7 Empty Re: General Election on Tue Nov 19 2019, 13:33

Angry Dad

Angry Dad
Youri Djorkaeff
Youri Djorkaeff
@wanderlust wrote:
@Angry Dad wrote:Yay free broadband for all !!! What a fucking useless cunt corbyn and the rest of them are they face a wipeout at the election which they won't recover from, it is the end of the labour party and not a moment too soon.
General Election - Page 7 75625326_145858860090925_4689740503502028800_n.jpg?_nc_cat=108&_nc_oc=AQkwtDEZnzjjfUzjeVZDVHGzqzUg8tJdnZc9wgsDhxDciwLT4sfdh_gQ8Y0IXyKq1ps&_nc_ht=scontent-lht6-1
Telegraph and The Beano

184General Election - Page 7 Empty Re: General Election on Tue Nov 19 2019, 21:24

gloswhite

gloswhite
Guðni Bergsson
Guðni Bergsson
I can see a lot of the Bash Street Kids in the way they go about their business  Very Happy

185General Election - Page 7 Empty Re: General Election on Wed Nov 20 2019, 16:13

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
"FactcheckUK"

Absolutely typical of the current political climate.
1) Tories rename their press office twitter account as "factcheckUK" and publish their critique of Labour as if it were an independent fact checking site
2) General uproar re lying to the electorate
3) Denial from Raab that it matters
4) No action whatsoever from the authorities

The issue for me is that a substantial proportion of the British electorate are incredibly gullible and are determining the fate of our country on the basis of the lies they are told. And of course nobody likes to admit that they've been duped so will carry on claiming that they've made their own minds up when in fact they are just puppets.

186General Election - Page 7 Empty Re: General Election on Wed Nov 20 2019, 17:09

xmiles

xmiles
Jay Jay Okocha
Jay Jay Okocha
The tories fighting dirty. Is anyone surprised?

187General Election - Page 7 Empty Re: General Election on Wed Nov 20 2019, 19:45

luckyPeterpiper

luckyPeterpiper
Frank Worthington
Frank Worthington
While I devoutly hope the Tories lose this election I'd have to say ALL the parties are distasteful to me atm with the possible exception of the Lib Dems. I quite like Swinson and I'm a big fan of staying in the EU but unfortunately I don't rate her party colleagues very highly. Sir Vince Cable is a decent man but he's retired and frankly the rest of the parliamentary Lib Dems are at best mediocre.

The one politician who really annoys me right now is Corbyn. His 'referendum' approach to the Brexit question smacks of cowardice to me. He and the Labour Party should come out clearly and state what they want rather than make non-commital noises about 'the people'. I'd respect him much more if he said he was on one side of the Brexit fence or the other instead of trying to straddle it in the hope it will avoid losing votes.

188General Election - Page 7 Empty Re: General Election on Wed Nov 20 2019, 19:55

xmiles

xmiles
Jay Jay Okocha
Jay Jay Okocha
Corbyn is a brexiteer and a hypocrite. He clearly wants to leave the EU and ignore the fact that the vast majority of Labour party members and voters want to remain in the EU. His refusal to answer the simple question of whether he would campaign for his deal with the EU or to remain makes him an easy target for Boris and the Tory press.

189General Election - Page 7 Empty Re: General Election on Wed Nov 20 2019, 20:34

Guest


Guest
A referendum on Brexit is the only compromise position left to take. Ridiculous to call it cowardice when the country is split - ignoring one side is not an option and that’s what cost Teresa May. Such a tight vote needed a soft Brexit.

And why should he answer the question on what he would campaign for until a new deal is on the table? Nobody knows the options until that deal is there.

190General Election - Page 7 Empty Re: General Election on Wed Nov 20 2019, 20:41

xmiles

xmiles
Jay Jay Okocha
Jay Jay Okocha
TROY do you honestly believe Corbyn wants to stay in the EU?

191General Election - Page 7 Empty Re: General Election on Wed Nov 20 2019, 20:43

xmiles

xmiles
Jay Jay Okocha
Jay Jay Okocha
T.R.O.Y wrote:A referendum on Brexit is the only compromise position left to take. Ridiculous to call it cowardice when the country is split - ignoring one side is not an option and that’s what cost Teresa May. Such a tight vote needed a soft Brexit.

And why should he answer the question on what he would campaign for until a new deal is on the table? Nobody knows the options until that deal is there.

I agree that another referendum is necessary but it should be on Boris' deal vs staying in the EU. Corbyn's refusal to support this option is entirely down to his brexiteer beliefs.

192General Election - Page 7 Empty Re: General Election on Wed Nov 20 2019, 20:54

Guest


Guest
What? Why would you want Boris’s over a softer, less damaging deal negotiated by Labour without the right wing constraints placed by the ERG?

On your first question - I don’t care what he thinks, personally I think we should leave but with a better deal than what’s on offer. Corbyn will do what the people decide, that’s a position I’ll vote for. Who will you vote for X?

193General Election - Page 7 Empty Re: General Election on Wed Nov 20 2019, 21:05

xmiles

xmiles
Jay Jay Okocha
Jay Jay Okocha
T.R.O.Y wrote:What? Why would you want Boris’s over a softer, less damaging deal negotiated by Labour without the right wing constraints placed by the ERG?

On your first question - I don’t care what he thinks, personally I think we should leave but with a better deal than what’s on offer. Corbyn will do what the people decide, that’s a position I’ll vote for. Who will you vote for X?

Where we differ is that I do not want to leave the EU. If we have to leave the EU obviously I would prefer it to be a soft rather than a hard brexit. However I do find it unacceptable that Corbyn won't say what he will campaign for once he has negotiated his deal with the EU. He should have backed the campaign for a referendum on Boris's deal.

I vote tactically for the candidate with the best chance of beating the Tory candidate. Sadly where I live that is not the Labour candidate.

194General Election - Page 7 Empty Re: General Election on Wed Nov 20 2019, 21:12

Guest


Guest
If you’d prefer a soft Brexit why are you advocating a referendum on Boris’s deal? It’s an awful deal - worse than May’s for the economy, surely you’d prefer a less damaging deal?

195General Election - Page 7 Empty Re: General Election on Wed Nov 20 2019, 21:14

xmiles

xmiles
Jay Jay Okocha
Jay Jay Okocha
Because I think a choice between Boris's deal and staying in the EU maximises the chances of us staying in the EU.

196General Election - Page 7 Empty Re: General Election on Wed Nov 20 2019, 21:38

Guest


Guest
Would you honestly vote Lib Dem? They’re as extreme as the Tories in terms of Brexit.

197General Election - Page 7 Empty Re: General Election on Wed Nov 20 2019, 22:46

xmiles

xmiles
Jay Jay Okocha
Jay Jay Okocha
They want to stay in the EU and so do I. What is "extreme" about that?

198General Election - Page 7 Empty Re: General Election on Wed Nov 20 2019, 23:08

Guest


Guest
Wanting to completely ignore a democratic vote is extreme, as you well know. There’s no justifiable argument for doing so.

199General Election - Page 7 Empty Re: General Election on Wed Nov 20 2019, 23:13

xmiles

xmiles
Jay Jay Okocha
Jay Jay Okocha
And yet you support having a referendum on Corbyn's deal. How is that any different from having a referendum on Boris's deal? That is just as "extreme". How do you justify that?

200General Election - Page 7 Empty Re: General Election on Thu Nov 21 2019, 02:03

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
T.R.O.Y wrote:What? Why would you want Boris’s over a softer, less damaging deal negotiated by Labour without the right wing constraints placed by the ERG?

On your first question - I don’t care what he thinks, personally I think we should leave but with a better deal than what’s on offer. Corbyn will do what the people decide, that’s a position I’ll vote for. Who will you vote for X?
The thing is Corbyn hasn't got a deal to discuss and can only guess at what deal he might get given the opportunity.
And talking of opportunities, Corbyn put his own political ambitions ahead of looking for a solution to defeat the Tories as an alliance with the numerous pro-Remain parties wherein they agreed to only field candidates in the winnable marginals would have done the job - but he chose to attempt to further his deluded ambitions instead.
A smarter person would have realised there are more ways to skin a cat and unfortunately his actions will probably give the Tories a shoo-in.
In my constituency, if Labour, the Libdems and Greens (whose policies are broadly similar) put up just one coalition candidate they would win a seat that has been held by the Tories for over 100 years.
Naive of Corbyn to think that he could gain power by splitting the vote.

201General Election - Page 7 Empty Re: General Election on Thu Nov 21 2019, 07:15

Guest


Guest
@wanderlust wrote:
T.R.O.Y wrote:What? Why would you want Boris’s over a softer, less damaging deal negotiated by Labour without the right wing constraints placed by the ERG?

On your first question - I don’t care what he thinks, personally I think we should leave but with a better deal than what’s on offer. Corbyn will do what the people decide, that’s a position I’ll vote for. Who will you vote for X?
The thing is Corbyn hasn't got a deal to discuss and can only guess at what deal he might get given the opportunity.
And talking of opportunities, Corbyn put his own political ambitions ahead of looking for a solution to defeat the Tories as an alliance with the numerous pro-Remain parties wherein they agreed to only field candidates in the winnable marginals would have done the job - but he chose to attempt to further his deluded ambitions instead.
A smarter person would have realised there are more ways to skin a cat and unfortunately his actions will probably give the Tories a shoo-in.
In my constituency, if Labour, the Libdems and Greens (whose policies are broadly similar) put up just one coalition candidate they would win a seat that has been held by the Tories for over 100 years.
Naive of Corbyn to think that he could gain power by splitting the vote.

Your entire premise seems to be based around a notion that Labour is a remain party - but 60% of its constituencies voted leave - so why should Labour ignore half it’s voters to keep you happy?

Im afraid you’re talking rubbish.

The Lib Dem’s could have backed a no confidence vote months ago - the best opportunity to stop a hard Brexit - but refused because of the delusion Swinson could become PM.



Last edited by T.R.O.Y on Thu Nov 21 2019, 07:16; edited 1 time in total

202General Election - Page 7 Empty Re: General Election on Thu Nov 21 2019, 07:16

Guest


Guest
@xmiles wrote:And yet you support having a referendum on Corbyn's deal. How is that any different from having a referendum on Boris's deal? That is just as "extreme". How do you justify that?

The extreme position is revoking Article 50, going back to the country for a final say is the only option left as parliament can’t get a deal through.

203General Election - Page 7 Empty Re: General Election on Thu Nov 21 2019, 08:59

xmiles

xmiles
Jay Jay Okocha
Jay Jay Okocha
T.R.O.Y wrote:
@wanderlust wrote:
T.R.O.Y wrote:What? Why would you want Boris’s over a softer, less damaging deal negotiated by Labour without the right wing constraints placed by the ERG?

On your first question - I don’t care what he thinks, personally I think we should leave but with a better deal than what’s on offer. Corbyn will do what the people decide, that’s a position I’ll vote for. Who will you vote for X?
The thing is Corbyn hasn't got a deal to discuss and can only guess at what deal he might get given the opportunity.
And talking of opportunities, Corbyn put his own political ambitions ahead of looking for a solution to defeat the Tories as an alliance with the numerous pro-Remain parties wherein they agreed to only field candidates in the winnable marginals would have done the job - but he chose to attempt to further his deluded ambitions instead.
A smarter person would have realised there are more ways to skin a cat and unfortunately his actions will probably give the Tories a shoo-in.
In my constituency, if Labour, the Libdems and Greens (whose policies are broadly similar) put up just one coalition candidate they would win a seat that has been held by the Tories for over 100 years.
Naive of Corbyn to think that he could gain power by splitting the vote.

Your entire premise seems to be based around a notion that Labour is a remain party - but 60% of its constituencies voted leave - so why should Labour ignore half it’s voters to keep you happy?

Im afraid you’re talking rubbish.

The Lib Dem’s could have backed a no confidence vote months ago - the best opportunity to stop a hard Brexit - but refused because of the delusion Swinson could become PM.

You say that 60% of Labour constituencies voted leave but ignore the far more important point that 70% of Labour voters voted remain. https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=4&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjYr5jM9_rlAhWnRhUIHcFrDl0QFjADegQIAxAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.bbc.co.uk%2Fnews%2Fuk-politics-48039984&usg=AOvVaw0438eNOjj85BkSMF_0vRMY

204General Election - Page 7 Empty Re: General Election on Thu Nov 21 2019, 09:02

xmiles

xmiles
Jay Jay Okocha
Jay Jay Okocha
T.R.O.Y wrote:
@xmiles wrote:And yet you support having a referendum on Corbyn's deal. How is that any different from having a referendum on Boris's deal? That is just as "extreme". How do you justify that?

The extreme position is revoking Article 50, going back to the country for a final say is the only option left as parliament can’t get a deal through.

You still haven't explained how supporting a referendum on Corbyn's deal is different from supporting a referendum on Boris's deal.

205General Election - Page 7 Empty Re: General Election on Thu Nov 21 2019, 10:31

Guest


Guest
I said it in post 192, Labour's deal would keep us in the customs union and therefore be far less damaging to the economy. 

Boris's deal shouldn't be on the table at all.

206General Election - Page 7 Empty Re: General Election on Thu Nov 21 2019, 10:39

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@xmiles wrote:
T.R.O.Y wrote:
@wanderlust wrote:
T.R.O.Y wrote:What? Why would you want Boris’s over a softer, less damaging deal negotiated by Labour without the right wing constraints placed by the ERG?

On your first question - I don’t care what he thinks, personally I think we should leave but with a better deal than what’s on offer. Corbyn will do what the people decide, that’s a position I’ll vote for. Who will you vote for X?
The thing is Corbyn hasn't got a deal to discuss and can only guess at what deal he might get given the opportunity.
And talking of opportunities, Corbyn put his own political ambitions ahead of looking for a solution to defeat the Tories as an alliance with the numerous pro-Remain parties wherein they agreed to only field candidates in the winnable marginals would have done the job - but he chose to attempt to further his deluded ambitions instead.
A smarter person would have realised there are more ways to skin a cat and unfortunately his actions will probably give the Tories a shoo-in.
In my constituency, if Labour, the Libdems and Greens (whose policies are broadly similar) put up just one coalition candidate they would win a seat that has been held by the Tories for over 100 years.
Naive of Corbyn to think that he could gain power by splitting the vote.

Your entire premise seems to be based around a notion that Labour is a remain party - but 60% of its constituencies voted leave - so why should Labour ignore half it’s voters to keep you happy?

Im afraid you’re talking rubbish.

The Lib Dem’s could have backed a no confidence vote months ago - the best opportunity to stop a hard Brexit - but refused because of the delusion Swinson could become PM.

You say that 60% of Labour constituencies voted leave but ignore the far more important point that 70% of Labour voters voted remain. https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=4&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjYr5jM9_rlAhWnRhUIHcFrDl0QFjADegQIAxAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.bbc.co.uk%2Fnews%2Fuk-politics-48039984&usg=AOvVaw0438eNOjj85BkSMF_0vRMY
You beat me to it XM. So yes, my entire premise is based around the notion that Labour is a Remain party. Unfortunately, the leadership is out of touch with the membership.

Edit: Sorry I just used the word "leadership" in the context of Corbyn. If I didn't know better I'd suspect that Corbyn is a sleeping Tory agent sent to infiltrate the party and render it unelectable. Either that or he doesn't pay any attention to the views of the rank and file members or the general public opinion polls. Either way it can't be construed as leadership in the true sense.



Last edited by wanderlust on Thu Nov 21 2019, 10:43; edited 1 time in total

207General Election - Page 7 Empty Re: General Election on Thu Nov 21 2019, 10:42

xmiles

xmiles
Jay Jay Okocha
Jay Jay Okocha
T.R.O.Y wrote:I said it in post 192, Labour's deal would keep us in the customs union and therefore be far less damaging to the economy. 

Boris's deal shouldn't be on the table at all.

You are missing the point. If a referendum is held on Corbyn's deal people will be able to vote to stay in the EU - something you said at 198 was "Wanting to completely ignore a democratic vote ... There’s no justifiable argument for doing so".

Yet you won't support a referendum on Boris's deal despite it offering a better chance of being rejected. You seem to want to leave the EU.

208General Election - Page 7 Empty Re: General Election on Thu Nov 21 2019, 11:35

Guest


Guest
To revoke article 50 without putting an option to the people is unjustifiable - really not sure why that’s so difficult to follow?

Also don’t know how many times I need to say that I think a soft Brexit is the best option available now to bring people together. Compromise is the only way forward, not the extreme positions of Lib Dem or Tory.

So yes you can say I want to leave the EU if you want.

209General Election - Page 7 Empty Re: General Election on Thu Nov 21 2019, 12:23

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
T.R.O.Y wrote:To revoke article 50 without putting an option to the people is unjustifiable - really not sure why that’s so difficult to follow?
Why is it unjustifiable? Surely that's just going from a position/deal that nobody either wants or voted for to a holding position where there is plenty of time to find out what people really want and work out the best way forward?

210General Election - Page 7 Empty Re: General Election on Thu Nov 21 2019, 13:08

luckyPeterpiper

luckyPeterpiper
Frank Worthington
Frank Worthington
In all honesty I believe a second referendum is necessary. I am a "Remain" supporter but that's not why I want this. Since the initial vote more than 200,000 people have turned 18 and now have the right to vote. Since it's my firm belief that the outcome of Brexit will have a far greater effect on our children's generation than our own I think it appropriate that their voice be heard and that the country has the opportunity to state how it feels now rather than how it did in 2016.

Much has changed since then including the fact that Boris Johnson's deal is catastrophically bad for the nation. As to Corbyn's 'deal' it doesn't even exist and there's absolutely no guarantee that the EU would accept it if he was in a position to put it to them OR that Parliament would agree to it if they did.

With no disrespect to lusty or xmiles I think they overestimate just how much time we have on this. I can't see the EU agreeing to yet another delay in Brexit so this is a matter that MUST be dealt with immediately following the Election. Personally I feel the referendum should have 3 options. The Johnson deal, a 'hard' brexit or remain.

One thing is very clear though. This country is divided in a way it probably hasn't been since 1641. If we are to heal those breaches anytime soon the screaming rhetoric and distasteful haranguing of those we disagree with must stop and I think a 2nd referendum may just be the way to do it.

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