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Administration and beyond!

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BoltonTillIDie
Sluffy
RangersDave
gloswhite
boltonbonce
Cajunboy
terenceanne
wanderlust
Norpig
Natasha Whittam
xmiles
karlypants
Ten Bobsworth
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201Administration and beyond! - Page 11 Empty Re: Administration and beyond! Tue Apr 26 2022, 08:21

Ten Bobsworth


El Hadji Diouf
El Hadji Diouf

Sorry I couldn't find the Sam the Sham version of 'I couldn't spell' on YT, Gnatasher, but the Barron Knights did a cover. Hope you like it.

202Administration and beyond! - Page 11 Empty Re: Administration and beyond! Wed Apr 27 2022, 12:36

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin

I had a little nosey around today and found the following...

As we know there is some bond between Sharon and Nick Mason and Sharon together with Jeff Thomas were in the consortium to buy Bolton.  Well Sharon is involved with another company Made in Brittan Ltd

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

We've known about this for some time but it seems to have flown under the radar (well mine at least!).

The company seems to trade but is exempt from certain reporting aspects due to being a small company.

Well these three amigo's together with one of Sharon's son, Toby, and someone named as Rory Thomas Kindlon were all directors at one time at Made in Brittan, with Mason having significant interest in it.

Not anymore.

On the 20th September 2021, Mason and Thomas resigned and Mason is stated as no longer having a significant interest any more from that date.  Toby Brittan had resigned a long time before all this and the purchase of BWFC by FV.

I've no idea of the relevance of this but it did take place just a month before all that fannying around with the government loan to shares and the £7.5m equity put into the club by Sharon, James and Luckock.

Returning to Rory Thomas Kindlon, he together with Sharon set up Disciple Nominees Ltd in February 2021.
 
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It started out as just two £1 shares but for some reason issued another 98 shares - with Nick Luckock buying 40 of them.

Sharon and Kindlon now having 20 each and a Keith Morris holding the remaining 20.



Fwiw I think this is Kindlon who claims to work with HNI's (High Net-worth Individuals) and PE (Private Equity)

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Just thought it may be of some interest or relevance but at the same time could just all be meaningless - but it's kept me amused for a hour or so.

203Administration and beyond! - Page 11 Empty Re: Administration and beyond! Fri Apr 29 2022, 08:37

Ten Bobsworth


El Hadji Diouf
El Hadji Diouf

Sluffy wrote:I had a little nosey around today and found the following...

As we know there is some bond between Sharon and Nick Mason and Sharon together with Jeff Thomas were in the consortium to buy Bolton.  Well Sharon is involved with another company Made in Brittan Ltd

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

We've known about this for some time but it seems to have flown under the radar (well mine at least!).

The company seems to trade but is exempt from certain reporting aspects due to being a small company.

Well these three amigo's together with one of Sharon's son, Toby, and someone named as Rory Thomas Kindlon were all directors at one time at Made in Brittan, with Mason having significant interest in it.

Not anymore.

On the 20th September 2021, Mason and Thomas resigned and Mason is stated as no longer having a significant interest any more from that date.  Toby Brittan had resigned a long time before all this and the purchase of BWFC by FV.

I've no idea of the relevance of this but it did take place just a month before all that fannying around with the government loan to shares and the £7.5m equity put into the club by Sharon, James and Luckock.

Returning to Rory Thomas Kindlon, he together with Sharon set up Disciple Nominees Ltd in February 2021.
 
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

It started out as just two £1 shares but for some reason issued another 98 shares - with Nick Luckock buying 40 of them.

Sharon and Kindlon now having 20 each and a Keith Morris holding the remaining 20.



Fwiw I think this is Kindlon who claims to work with HNI's (High Net-worth Individuals) and PE (Private Equity)

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]


Just thought it may be of some interest or relevance but at the same time could just all be meaningless - but it's kept me amused for a hour or so.


Thanks Sluffy. I occasionally take a quick look at Sharon's Companies House file to see if there is some clue where any money might be coming from. Formed in 2018, the only company making any money seems to be Made By Brittan Too Ltd which the file says provides 'business support service activities not elsewhere classified'. It has only one employee, Sharon.

The company paid £63K corporation tax on its most recently declared profit. In other words profits of c. £330K. You couldn't fund FV out of that.

I suspect that Disciple Nominees Ltd may be connected with the £3million unsecured loan facility provided in February 2021 which was later converted into shares along with the government and other funding.

FV still seem to be keeping their cards 'close to their chest', don't they just?

204Administration and beyond! - Page 11 Empty Re: Administration and beyond! Sat Apr 30 2022, 08:29

Ten Bobsworth


El Hadji Diouf
El Hadji Diouf

Its wise to take a huge pinch of salt when looking at what folk say about themselves on  Linkedin, Sluffy. Take Dean Holdsworth as an example.

However Rory Kindlon indicates a prior link with UK Cloud which iirc was one of Jeff Thomas's enterprises.

It may be supposing too much but this Disciple Nominees business looks very much like it may be connected with the financing of FV but not, significantly, including Michael James.

However Disciple Nominees were not disclosed as shareholders in FV when they filed their statement of shareholders, late, but as at 10 January 2022. Sharon had said that there were five investors but FV disclosed only four.

Its also worth noting that A and B shares amounting to nearly 15% of the company were issued on 21 January 2022 on payment of, wait for it, all of £58,953. We don't know who these shares were issued to neither do we know who would stump up £3million for shares priced at nearly £8.50 per share.

205Administration and beyond! - Page 11 Empty Re: Administration and beyond! Sat Apr 30 2022, 10:19

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin

I certainly agree Bob about taking a pinch of salt about anything on social media without checking the validity of what is said first - such as Linkedin.

I do think though that there has been previous financial history between some of the names linked peripherally to Sharon such as Thomas and Kindlon and I don't doubt there's a few more names that we don't know about either.  I suspect that they know their ways around financial dealings and investments in a way that people like me simply wouldn't know about, they move in different financial worlds to me.

Nevertheless they still all have to play to to rules and regs and it is at that point that you and I can pick them up on our radar.

The reason why I posted about Sharon's other company and picked out Kindlon's name was the closeness it seemed to have with some of the happenings of that company immediately before the 'happenings' with FV shortly afterwards leading to the government loan to equity.

I also thought it was strange of Mason to withdraw himself and his wealth from it too - there must be a reason.  I'm a little surprised that this point hasn't seem to pique your interest so far.

Clearly James is not involved with Sharon's 'circle' but I think James (PBP) is secure in his investment being tied up to the hotel rather than the football side per se.

Something clearly happened for a reason for the new share issue in January AFTER the required Statement of Shareholders but I don't know what?

I too am intrigued about Sharon's reference to the five investors but I can't work out the context to her statement!

Clearly we know about three of the investors, herself, James and Luckock but who are the other two?

Did she mean PBP and Warburton, was EDT in her mind at the time, was she thinking about the Gov taking shares in FV, was it someone new buying into FV in the January share issue she had in her mind when she said what she did???

Who knows, I certainly don't - but it interests me never the less.

And to be fair it is all the business of FV which is a private company and nothing to do with us, who merely 'buys' their 'product'.

However if there's nothing to hide then why be so secretive about it - in the sense of not reporting on time to Companies House?

It's all a bit of a puzzle isn't it!

I find it all intriguing.

206Administration and beyond! - Page 11 Empty Re: Administration and beyond! Sun May 01 2022, 07:35

Ten Bobsworth


El Hadji Diouf
El Hadji Diouf

Short of the play-offs, the 2021/22 season reached its conclusion yesterday for League 1 with six of the 24 clubs failing to file their accounts for the  2020/21 season.

Who are they?

Bolton Wanderers
Ipswich Town
Morecambe
Sheffield Wednesday
Sunderland
Wimbledon

Why?

We can't say exactly but financial issues are likely to be at the heart of all of them.

Is it any of our business? Are we merely customers of commercial concerns?

Parliament doesn't think so and neither do a lot of supporters.

And what have supporters trusts got to say about it?

Not very much if Bolton is any example.

207Administration and beyond! - Page 11 Empty Re: Administration and beyond! Sun May 01 2022, 10:21

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin

Ten Bobsworth wrote:
Is it any of our business? Are we merely customers of commercial concerns?

Parliament doesn't think so and neither do a lot of supporters.

Would you like to know Dale Vince's views on this Bob?

Dale Vince has transformed Forest Green Rovers into the world's first carbon neutral football club while masterminding their journey to League One... the energy tycoon is a self-proclaimed 'contrarian' who insists he would 'never swap principles for money'

‘It’s a real interesting question because my main day job is in the energy business which has a regulator, and that has been a fucking disaster,’ says Vince. ‘So, I'm hesitant to say, yes, we should regulate football based on experience.

‘But football needs something done to it because there are so many clubs every year that run so close to the edge. That's harmful for communities. Self-regulation isn’t working. The fit and proper owner’s test is a breach of the trade description’s act.

‘Money rules the roost in football, which is all kinds of wrong. It’s like a Wild West version of capitalism. It needs control. I found it really interesting that the government in their report said that the free market can't solve the problems of football. This is a Conservative government that thinks the free market can solve all problems. I was surprised to read that.’

If it’s been a disaster in the energy industry, could it have the same effect on football?

‘Well, it could, it absolutely could because you tend in a regulator to get a lot of theoretical people and, you know, they are not in touch with what's really needed.

Full article here - [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

208Administration and beyond! - Page 11 Empty Re: Administration and beyond! Sun May 01 2022, 10:34

Ten Bobsworth


El Hadji Diouf
El Hadji Diouf

I know Vince's views, Sluffy, and he's a complete hypocrite. FGR has been funded on debt raised on  Ecotricity's non-existent profit. So has his fortified-mansion lifestyle.

That's not say he's wrong about the inefficiency and incompetence of regulation. I'd agree that regulatory bodies tend to be staffed by head-in-the clouds Lusty types with Jobsworth tendencies.

209Administration and beyond! - Page 11 Empty Re: Administration and beyond! Sun May 01 2022, 11:36

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin

Ten Bobsworth wrote:I know Vince's views, Sluffy, and he's a complete hypocrite. FGR has been funded on debt raised on  Ecotricity's non-existent profit. So has his fortified-mansion lifestyle.

That's not say he's wrong about the inefficiency and incompetence of regulation. I'd agree that regulatory bodies tend to be staffed by head-in-the clouds Lusty types with Jobsworth tendencies.

Your reference to Wanderlust gave made me smile!

To be honest I've not really given a football regulator much thought as I believed it was all pie in the sky political rhetoric kind of stuff.

My thoughts are that football is a game and games are regulated by their sports bodies - so government imposing a regulator on football will open a massive can of 'legal' worms I would suspect - not least I would imagine that FIFA doesn't tolerate government interference in the sport and I guess in theory at least they may expel us from world football - but I don't think that will happen though.

I'm not even sure what the football regulator job would be?

I mean the PL puts out to bids broadcasting rights and are paid for them.  The PL keep the lion's share.

What legislation gives the right to the regulator to say they should give a bigger share to the EFL?

I don't think there is any legal powers to do so - and if the PL says no to the regulator - then what???

Also all other sports bodies should also have appointed a regulator if football has one - what are the legal consequences of just football being signalled out?

As for 'fit and proper' owners - how do you 'prove' that - Christ we can't even figure out where the funding for little old BWFC is coming from - just imagine working out who actually pulls the strings at some of our big clubs such as Chelsea, Everton, City and Newcastle - and I don't just mean financial - political influence and geopolitics are certainly involved too.

Even clubs like Wigan and Hull seem to have some 'strange' owners.

I just don't see it happening.

My initial thoughts are that if the view is to 'regulate' football then it can only really be done by government brining in legislation that applies to ALL companies in respect of 'fit and proper' owners and some sort of powers over allocation of funds to subsidiary companies and/or related business (eg the relationship with the PL and the EFL).

Why make football a special case?

210Administration and beyond! - Page 11 Empty Re: Administration and beyond! Sun May 01 2022, 12:55

Ten Bobsworth


El Hadji Diouf
El Hadji Diouf

I don't see how its going to work either, Sluffy, but it is the case that there is existing law that some clubs do not comply with at present. They could tighten those up a bit but its far from the biggest problem.

The influence of the monumental sums going to Premiership clubs, and the distortions that flow from it, is the really destabilising factor.

211Administration and beyond! - Page 11 Empty Re: Administration and beyond! Sun May 01 2022, 13:17

boltonbonce

boltonbonce
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

Thought Sluffy and Bob might find this interesting. Be interested in what they think.

212Administration and beyond! - Page 11 Empty Re: Administration and beyond! Sun May 01 2022, 15:22

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin

Thanks Bonce.

I can't say I'd really given much if any thought to all this but I wasn't in the least surprised as to what evolved from the discussion from the video, namely on one side you had the 'emotional' and 'political' side and on the other the 'rational' and 'analytical' side.

I think it is obvious to all regulars on here by now that I'm in the latter category.

Put simply most football supporters seem to be emotive about their team and ignorant about how the business behind the club functions in law and finance - I think that was amply demonstrated during Ken Anderson's ownership of our club.

Going off a little bit of a tangent I think that is a truism in respect of most things when emotions become detached from the legal, financial and physical reality of life.

You know my views of our ST - and these are the people across the country who have fed into the governments report - well meaning no doubt but completely delude as to how business runs and works.

As always the politicians look to see the political angle - namely is there any potential votes in it for them further down the line - and clearly most people with a view on this want a change - so the politicians are siding with the majority.

The reality is that those who do know about how businesses run, how they are financed and what legislative requirements they operate in such as the Institute of Economic Affairs clearly rubbish the idea.

Even Jordan who has owned a club in the PL knows the proposals are a nonsense.

These too were my vague thoughts on the matter all along and now having seen the video seem to suggest I was right to have taken all this with a large does of salt.

I suspect all this will rumble on in the background without ever coming into being.

Take away the emotion and you are dealing with a 'game' that is 'governed' outside of Parliament and as such outside of legislation.

The Companies that own the clubs though are subject to legislation and as such you have a divide between the two.

I simply can't see how Parliament can enact legislation to bridge that divide and 'regulate' the 'game' without opening a huge can of legal problems.

And for what really?

Football may matter to you or I but simply not to most people - we can't even fill the ground when we've had a good season as we've had this time.

The MP even said one of the drivers for this report was due to bad owners such as at Derby - then later on even accepted that the Derby owner would have ticked all the boxes as an ideal owner when he first bought the club!

The answer if you want to solve the perceived footballing problems is to legislate that ALL companies must adhere to fit and proper ownership criteria's and more stringent financial controls - and that simply won't happen because it is too restrictive for companies to function and thrive in the real world.

Why would anyone in their right minds want the loons from the ST tell them how they should run and fund their business simply because they are fans of the football club they own?

Never going to happen, can you see the representatives of the Saudi Royal Funds doing what Newcastle's ST tells them to do???

It's just laughable really.

213Administration and beyond! - Page 11 Empty Re: Administration and beyond! Mon May 02 2022, 07:25

Ten Bobsworth


El Hadji Diouf
El Hadji Diouf

boltonbonce wrote:Thought Sluffy and Bob might find this interesting. Be interested in what they think.

Sorry Boncey but time's precious and I'd rather not spend 40 minutes of it listening to Motormouth and co. I'll stay open-minded but I'm not optimistic on these proposals.

214Administration and beyond! - Page 11 Empty Re: Administration and beyond! Mon May 02 2022, 09:17

Ten Bobsworth


El Hadji Diouf
El Hadji Diouf

A bit more on the, dare I say, ostentatiously named Made By Brittan Ltd. MBBL doesn't make anything (except for money) and hasn't made much of that. Pre-tax profits have averaged a modest £60K p.a in its four years of operation.

Originally formed as Vicarage Investments Ltd, MBBL has had five directors in its history. Toby Brittan was a director for only two months and never owned shares. Jeff Thomas served for five years and Nick Mason for two and a half before both resigned in September 2021.

Rory Kindlon joined the board in November 2018 and seems to own 25% of the company as do Sharon, Nick Mason and Jeff Thomas.

All in all, MBBL doesn't appear to amount to very much or do very much other than provide 'support services' at a modest level.

I'll come to Made in Brittan Too Ltd later. Its short history is more interesting and more relevant, I think.

215Administration and beyond! - Page 11 Empty Re: Administration and beyond! Mon May 02 2022, 11:02

boltonbonce

boltonbonce
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

Ten Bobsworth wrote:

Sorry Boncey but time's precious and I'd rather not spend 40 minutes of it listening to Motormouth and co. I'll stay open-minded but I'm not optimistic on these proposals.
I'm not too busy. Just leafing through my Classic Tractor magazine.

Cor, look at the wheels on that!

216Administration and beyond! - Page 11 Empty Re: Administration and beyond! Mon May 02 2022, 11:33

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin

I've had another nosey around and found this from The Times from August 2019 - unfortunately I can't read it all because it is behind a paywall!

If anybody has a subscription and can view the article I would be grateful if they could post it up and share it with us all.

Money from Pink Floyd drummer Nick Mason stopped Bolton hitting the wall

He played the drums in one of Britain’s greatest rock bands, has a passion for motorsport, and was born on the outskirts of Birmingham, so it may come as a surprise that Nick Mason, of Pink Floyd, is part of the consortium that saved Bolton Wanderers.

Mason, along with Syd Barrett, Roger Waters and Richard Wright, formed Pink Floyd in 1965 and went on to sell more than 200 million albums. Mason, 75, is the only member to have appeared on all the band’s albums and has amassed a personal fortune as a result. Some estimates state that he is worth £123 million...

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217Administration and beyond! - Page 11 Empty Re: Administration and beyond! Mon May 02 2022, 11:43

boltonbonce

boltonbonce
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

He played the drums in one of Britain’s greatest rock bands, has a passion for motorsport, and was born on the outskirts of Birmingham, so it may come as a surprise that Nick Mason, of Pink Floyd, is part of the consortium that saved Bolton Wanderers.

Mason, along with Syd Barrett, Roger Waters and Richard Wright, formed Pink Floyd in 1965 and went on to sell more than 200 million albums. Mason, 75, is the only member to have appeared on all the band’s albums and has amassed a personal fortune as a result. Some estimates state that he is worth £123 million.

Part of Mason’s wealth is down to his collection of classic sportscars. One of his many Ferraris, the Ferrari 250 GTO, is worth about £33 million. Now he has moved into football, with his role in the Football Ventures (Whites) Limited (FVWL) consortium that took over Bolton on Tuesday.

After six months of fraught negotiations with the club’s former owner Ken Anderson, FVWL bought Bolton this week, less than 24 hours after the EFL warned the club that they could go out of business within two weeks unless a buyer was found.

FVWL is a two-person group set up in January with the sole aim of buying Bolton, who are bottom of Sky Bet League One. The consortium comprises Michael James, a local businessman and Bolton fan, and its head, Sharon Brittan, a 52-year-old businesswoman who was born in Manchester but raised in London. Brittan’s grandfather used to be the club doctor at Burnley and is a football fan. Brittan is said to be worth £45.8 million. She made her fortune from real estate development and providing advice on asset management. She and Mason have been business partners for more than a decade. Brittan holds a 7.7 per cent stake in Britannia Row, the Mason-founded company that provides audiovisual equipment to bands for live shows.

It is understood that when the possibility of buying Bolton came up, Brittan approached Mason asking if he would be interested in investing in the deal and he agreed to do so. Sources close to the bid say that Mason does not intend to undertake a prominent role at Bolton and his purpose is solely as an investor.

Brittan is to become the club’s chairwoman and James will be appointed director. Emma Beaugeard, who acts as chief operating officer for Mason and Brittan, will be the new chief executive.

Several new players are expected to sign in time to be registered for tomorrow’s match away to Gillingham. Interviews for the manager’s job will take place next week. Dean Holden and Kevin Nolan, the former Bolton players, are among the candidates.

Bury have complained to the EFL about its reluctance to acknowledge their plea to be reinstated. The club say new bidders with sufficient backing have come forward since they were expelled from the League on Tuesday.

218Administration and beyond! - Page 11 Empty Re: Administration and beyond! Mon May 02 2022, 12:28

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin

Thanks Bonce.

Sharon reported to have £45.8m!!!

Wonder if she still has it now...!

219Administration and beyond! - Page 11 Empty Re: Administration and beyond! Mon May 02 2022, 13:15

Ten Bobsworth


El Hadji Diouf
El Hadji Diouf

Thanks for The Times extract, Sluffy. I was aware of it but iirc have only ever seen the extract.

The Nick Mason connection has been known about from the start but the hows and the whys have remained shrouded in mystery. He's never owned shares in FV, never been a director and there's no evidence of him providing any loan finance. Furthermore he's no known interest in football at all and his advisors would probably have told him that BWFC is a money pit and has been for years.

Its known, of course, that Sharon has a long established business relationship with Nick Mason and that still seems to be the case irrespective of his resignation from the board of the small enterprise that is Made By Brittan Ltd.

In the year prior to the formation of FV, Sharon had formed Made By Brittan Too Ltd (TL). It has a £1 share capital and no employees other than Sharon but in its first year's accounts it turned in a pre-tax profit of nearly £1.4m.

Where did that money come from and where did it go to?  

You could ask Hetty Wainthropp to investigate but there's a good chance, I suspect, that quite a lot of it came from the association with Nick Mason.

What happened next?

TL's second year's pre-tax profits dropped to £830K and in the next year dropped further to £334K.

After corporation tax that would, in total, have left about £2.1m left over the three years but nearly all the money has gone from the balance sheet and there will be personal tax liabilities on 'owt tekken out'.

Where's the money gone?

I don't know but I could hazard a guess.

P.S. Posted before seeing the full Times extract. Thanks Boncey. I'll offer some more comments on that when I've looked into it.

220Administration and beyond! - Page 11 Empty Re: Administration and beyond! Tue May 03 2022, 08:26

BarrygoestoBolton


Mario Jardel
Mario Jardel

You may have already seen this transcript of Nick Luckock’s speech at the end-of-season awards dinner:

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Not much, if any,  new information, but pretty upbeat nonetheless.

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