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Administration latest news

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gloswhite
boltonbonce
Cajunboy
terenceanne
wanderlust
Norpig
Natasha Whittam
xmiles
karlypants
Ten Bobsworth
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61Administration latest news - Page 3 Empty Re: Administration latest news Mon Feb 24 2020, 14:26

boltonbonce

boltonbonce
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
I have a friend with a similar mind set, but he drives us crazy.
He's mad on trains, but when one appears in a movie he'll pipe up 'This picture is set in 1948. That particular gauge didn't come into service until 1954'. Then he'll point out the missing insignia on a particular uniform. Meanwhile several men have been shot, and a chase is on.
But he's happy, and he won't be changing any time soon.

62Administration latest news - Page 3 Empty Re: Administration latest news Mon Feb 24 2020, 14:52

Ten Bobsworth


El Hadji Diouf
El Hadji Diouf
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:I have a friend with a similar mind set, but he drives us crazy.
He's mad on trains, but when one appears in a movie he'll pipe up 'This picture is set in 1948. That particular gauge didn't come into service until 1954'. Then he'll point out the missing insignia on a particular uniform. Meanwhile several men have been shot, and a chase is on.
But he's happy, and he won't be changing any time soon.
I told you. You should watch Le Diner de Cons (with subtitles)

63Administration latest news - Page 3 Empty Re: Administration latest news Mon Feb 24 2020, 15:00

boltonbonce

boltonbonce
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Oh God! I've just seen myself as others see me. I thought slippers were interesting.

64Administration latest news - Page 3 Empty Re: Administration latest news Mon Mar 09 2020, 22:15

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
I wonder how this Coronavirus is going to effect the club financially?

Will attendance fall whilst the games are still on and what will happen if they have to be played behind closed doors, or even if the league is indefinitely suspended or terminated early?

Wages (including to staff as well as the players), suppliers and creditors all still need to be paid no matter what.

Not sure what insurance if any, RV may have to cover such things, force majeure may come in to play perhaps but I guess cash flow will probably be an ongoing concern to be dealt with?

Maybe the EFL and/or government will recompense in someway but I would imagine if they did that businesses would have to wait months/years for a settlement.

Creditors from the sale of the club to FV would still need to be paid as per the terms and timescales agreed to irrespective of whether the club is still allowed to play games in front of crowds or not.

FV did report two initial lines of credit to the tune of £40m to fund the club - so far so good BUT the terms was full repayment in three years!

It may well be such that the terms of repayment can/will be extended but one assumes that will incur financial penalties and/or additional interest charges - in other words more debt.

As I can't see how FV intends to make a profit in the first place, will coronavirus deal to us a mortal blow financially?

65Administration latest news - Page 3 Empty Re: Administration latest news Tue Mar 10 2020, 09:12

gloswhite

gloswhite
Guðni Bergsson
Guðni Bergsson
If it does, I doubt we'll be the only ones.

66Administration latest news - Page 3 Empty Re: Administration latest news Wed Mar 11 2020, 08:05

RangersDave

RangersDave
Mario Jardel
Mario Jardel
I think it will hurt all teams below the exhaulted shyte hole that is the Premier league.

Thinking any team that is close to the edge will probably fall, and this might lead to the complete revamp of football in this country, except the 'top' league, which rather like a Monty Python character will continue to eat at the trough without a care in the world until it explodes.

Teams such as mine might well go, unless a halt is called to the league / leagues until all this is over.

Mind you, its all boll ocks really when people are dying.

67Administration latest news - Page 3 Empty Re: Administration latest news Tue Mar 24 2020, 19:44

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin

68Administration latest news - Page 3 Empty Re: Administration latest news Fri Apr 24 2020, 17:00

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin







Fwiw I'm sure something was said about doing this in the Administrators report.

Can't be arsed digging it out now but if my memory is serving me correctly it seems to suggest Iles hasn't bothered reading it/or understood it.

I can't recall if it was deemed to be some sort of asset (ownership and title to that specific company name) so I guess there might even been a 'sale' involved (if so probably just the notional £1 charge) but I doubt very much that it's been purchased on speculation by anybody other than by FV (or with agreement with them).

In theory a third party could have bought and set up a business under that name with the intention to buy the club FROM FV - so it's not 100% nailed on that it is FV that is going to do a name change but as the company that currently 'owns' the club is actually called FVWL Football Limited, it seems more than likely it is.

EDIT - In fact just checking before I posted this Companies House as already recorded that the company has been incorporated with one share being issued which is owned by non other than FVWL Football Limited

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69Administration latest news - Page 3 Empty Re: Administration latest news Fri Jul 10 2020, 17:12

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin


Interesting, at least academically anyway.

It seems to confirm that KA DID sell his company ICI to Bassini after all, as Bassini claimed all along.

ICI only asset was the share holding of Burnden Leisure, which was the umbrella company that owned the club (and hotel).

Not that it makes any difference now to the club and FV, because both the Administrators (club and hotel) took out court protection to carry on with the sales - and Bassini never was approved as a potential owner by the EFL by not producing proof of funds but it does raise the question once again about the whys and what fors where going on at the time?

I guess we will never get to the bottom of it now but on paper at least Bassini owns a company - ICI - that has an outstanding charge against it from Eddie Davies Estate with has as its only assets the ownership shares in Burnden Leisure which itself is in the process of being liquidated.


And for the record the thing I detest about Maguire (and Iles also) is their total lack of professionalism - and playing to the social media crowd - by making their personal and snidey comments.

He/Iles should keep their own personal opinions to themselves and stick to the jobs they are paid to do - and not deliberately stir up the internet/twitter lynch mobs who many seem to believe everything they read on there as gospel.

70Administration latest news - Page 3 Empty Re: Administration latest news Sat Jul 11 2020, 13:07

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
I see that the Administrator has made another progress report on the hotel, filed on 17th June -

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It's entitled a 'joint Administrators report' but it is all about the hotel - and is from the three Administrators appointed by Quantuma.

The report shows that £7,472,425,00 was paid for the hotel by FVWL and the payment was made up of £6,482,425 that was owed to Prescot Business Park (Michael James) being it's secured creditor status for £5.5m plus accrued interest, an amount of £441,000 as initial down payment by FV and the balance of £549,000 in ten monthly payments on £54,900 starting 30th Sept, 2019. (p11/12 of 31)

The first six payments have been made but the hotel (due to virus/reduced income) asked for the last four payments to be deferred starting again in September 2020, which was agreed.

The report covers a period from the 14th May, 2019 (when Admin started) to the 13th May 2020 (therefore a years trading) and also an 'extract' of that period being 14th Nov, 2019 to 13th May 2020 - I've not spotted yet why that is? (FV took ownership on 28th Aug, 2019 also the hotel was 27th Nov, 1998 (p19 of 31) so maybe to match up with it's accountancy period???).

Something must be significant about that date (maybe even obvious) but it eludes me exactly what that is so far?

As well as this there is also attached a further progress and Trading Account up to the 9th June.

Keep in my though that these reports are for the 'old' hotel company 'Bolton Whites Hotel and not the new 'existing and trading one 'FVWL Hotel'.

The report goes on to say that after there are still costs incurrent but remaining unpaid (such as their solicitors fees) and also their own fees but these will be settled from the sale leaving a balance of £123,000 to be distributed to unsecured creditors (remember these are not footballing creditors) who will receive something like 15p in the £. (p13 of 31)

A part of Administrators duties they have to investigate and report on the conduct of the Directors (Ken Anderson) which was sent to the Insolvency Service on the 9th August, 2019 (almost a year ago now!)

It seems that the Administrators fees (just for the hotel remember) will total £724,570.00 (p15 0f 31).

Finally it seems to me that the Administration/Liquidation had intended to end when the final deferred payment was received and thus all accounts and unsecured creditors could be settled (which would have been about this time now but this as been extended to around the start of next year). p17/31

71Administration latest news - Page 3 Empty Re: Administration latest news Sun Aug 23 2020, 22:05

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
Just seen this and fwiw I imagine in ties in with EDT and the Administrator becoming secured creditors on land owned by the club a couple of months back?



EDIT

Added this from Bob from another thread (posted 31/3/2021) just to keep track of it.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:The first liquidators statement of BWFC2019 (the company formed in 1895) is now available to see at CH.

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Its not easy reading, not least because of the continually blurred descriptions of the amounts owed to Fildraw and KA respectively (Pages 10/11).

No mention of how much Sharon had to pay to the ageing, eco-hippy, tax dodging Lord of the Manor of Rodborough. Not to be confused, of course, with Christian Doidge who was sold to Hibs for c. £250K.

Anyway its now more than clear that there never were any additional creditors (hidden away in the wardrobe according to the media and at least one PR merchant) that had reportedly scuppered FV's original plan to buy BWFC as a Championship club.

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72Administration latest news - Page 3 Empty Re: Administration latest news Fri Sep 03 2021, 23:48

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
Here is something that might take your interest Bob.

Have you ever heard of THE SETPIECE DOCTOR LTD?

Can't say I have until I stumbled across them by accident earlier today.

Take a look at who became a director in October 2018 and resigned a year later, October 2019.

Non other than Dean Holdsworth in the form of Sports Shield Ltd.

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Which itself was dissolved on the 1st June, 2021.

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One month later, 1st July, 2021 Sports Shield BWFC Ltd was wound up by Quantuma -

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(Interesting to note that Quantuma in their final report 1st April, 2021, said that they had considered going after (presumably Holdsworth?) to recover monies (one unsecured creditor (BluMarble?) lost over £4m) but it was considered not cost effective to do so - p9 of 22).



Funny how the likes of Iles and the ST have still yet to say a bad word against Holdsworth - and the University has given him an honorary doctorate!!!

Amazing really.


Anyway I've no idea what the involvement with the Setpiece Doctor was all about - I wonder what it was - particularly as this involvement was AFTER the Court ordered SSBWFC to be wound up (6th September, 2017)?



Last edited by Sluffy on Fri Sep 03 2021, 23:54; edited 1 time in total

73Administration latest news - Page 3 Empty Re: Administration latest news Fri Sep 03 2021, 23:51

BoltonTillIDie

BoltonTillIDie
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Assume he did nothing illegal Smile

74Administration latest news - Page 3 Empty Re: Administration latest news Sat Sep 04 2021, 00:14

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:Assume he did nothing illegal Smile

Well innocent until proven guilty of course but the officers of the court (which Quantuma were acting as) certainly state they had reason to take the matter to court to be tried and the only reason they didn't was because they deemed it not cost effective - which I interpret as it would cost more to take that person (Holdsworth?) to court than they would get from them if they won the case.

Let me put it another way - nothing Anderson did whilst he was the owner of BWFC has merited the Administrators to say they even found anything for them to consider to take court action against him, let alone that they had as in the case of (presumably?) Holdsworth but didn't progress it because they had insufficient money or assets worth sequestration from them to justify taking the matter before a judge.

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75Administration latest news - Page 3 Empty Re: Administration latest news Sat Sep 04 2021, 12:48

Ten Bobsworth


El Hadji Diouf
El Hadji Diouf
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:Here is something that might take your interest Bob.

Have you ever heard of THE SETPIECE DOCTOR LTD?

Can't say I have until I stumbled across them by accident earlier today.

Take a look at who became a director in October 2018 and resigned a year later, October 2019.

Non other than Dean Holdsworth in the form of Sports Shield Ltd.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Which itself was dissolved on the 1st June, 2021.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

One month later, 1st July, 2021 Sports Shield BWFC Ltd was wound up by Quantuma -

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

(Interesting to note that Quantuma in their final report 1st April, 2021, said that they had considered going after (presumably Holdsworth?) to recover monies (one unsecured creditor (BluMarble?) lost over £4m) but it was considered not cost effective to do so - p9 of 22).



Funny how the likes of Iles and the ST have still yet to say a bad word against Holdsworth - and the University has given him an honorary doctorate!!!

Amazing really.


Anyway I've no idea what the involvement with the Setpiece Doctor was all about - I wonder what it was - particularly as this involvement was AFTER the Court ordered SSBWFC to be wound up (6th September, 2017)?

I've not heard of The Setpiece Doctor or Neil James Phillips before but I did take a look at some of Deano's other associations before and after he returned to the BWFC scene. Suffice to say I was unimpressed by all of them.

Neither was I much impressed with the BWFC Administration but that's another story. I don't believe the unvarnished truth has ever been told and I rather doubt it ever will be.

P.S. The Sports Shield accounts were interesting. It came into a tidy sum of money around the time of the 'Sports Shield' acquisition of BWFC. Any ideas on where the money came from? I have but I can't be absolutely certain.

76Administration latest news - Page 3 Empty Re: Administration latest news Tue Sep 07 2021, 00:37

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:I've not heard of The Setpiece Doctor or Neil James Phillips before but I did take a look at some of Deano's other associations before and after he returned to the BWFC scene. Suffice to say I was unimpressed by all of them.

Neither was I much impressed with the BWFC Administration but that's another story. I don't believe the unvarnished truth has ever been told and I rather doubt it ever will be.

P.S. The Sports Shield accounts were interesting. It came into a tidy sum of money around the time of the 'Sports Shield' acquisition of BWFC. Any ideas on where the money came from? I have but I can't be absolutely certain.

Sorry for the late reply Bob.

According to the 31st March, 2017 for Sports Shield, Note 6, an advance of £109,250 was received in 2016 from SSI (which I assume is one of Holdsworth other company's Sports Shield Investments).

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Looking at SSI's accounts for July 2017, they state there were outstanding debtors of £480,950 as at 31/07/2016 (Note 5).

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In the previous years accounts (Note 7 Related Party Transactions) it states SSI advanced a sum of £420,250 to Sports Shield Ltd, of which £100,671 was outstanding a year end.

The 2017 accounts states the sum advanced still remained at £420,250 but outstanding now was £418,850.

I note Holdsworth paid himself dividends of £125,000 in both 2016 and 2017 from SSI.


My guess to your question (although I can find no proof) was that at least circa £500k was received from the 'set up fees' he allegedly charge (and deducted from) the loan he set up with BluMarble that went to BWFC.


I note that an unsecured creditor unsuccessfully sought £4m from Sports Shield BWFC (which I assume was BluMarble) but the only accounts filed by SSBWFC was for the year ending 31st December, 2016 was that of a dormant company, which had undertook no trading in that year (Holdsworth became Bolton owner in Feb, 2016).

(SSBWFC being the company that owned half the shares in Bolton Wanderers Football and Athletic Club Ltd).

I wonder why some unnamed company believed they had done £4m worth of business with it then?

:whistle:

77Administration latest news - Page 3 Empty Re: Administration latest news Wed Sep 08 2021, 14:49

Ten Bobsworth


El Hadji Diouf
El Hadji Diouf
According to the now defunct website of Sports Shield Investments '

"We identify opportunities whereby investors can get a much higher return on their investment than would otherwise be available''.


Any ideas on who the 'We' was other than yer man?

Any ideas on why Sports Shield stopped identifying opportunities?

Somebody got a much higher return on a £1,000 'investment' than would otherwise be available, didn't they just?

Any ideas on what the link between the ST and DCH was other than, yer know, ganging up on Nokendo?

78Administration latest news - Page 3 Empty Re: Administration latest news Fri Sep 17 2021, 11:07

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
New Chief Finance Officer and new Chief Commercial Officer Appointed.



We are delighted to announce the appointments of Steve Phillips and Mike Pink to the Football Club, with the pair of them taking up the roles of Chief Financial Officer and Chief Commercial Officer respectively.

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Hailing from the Midlands, Steve arrives at the University of Bolton Stadium after a short time in Equestrian Sport, and his career in finance began after coaching in the Cheshire FA Development scheme for four years.

In the early days of his career in Finance, he worked for De Vere Hotels and became Finance Director of their flagship hotel, The Belfry – working as a part of the senior management team to successfully deliver the 2001 Ryder Cup as well as other major events such as the British Masters.

Following the 2006 British Masters, he moved to The Professional Golfers’ Association, working on a further six Ryder Cup matches up to and including the 2018 match in Paris, which was the most financially successful Ryder Cup in history. He was also a member of the Ryder Cup Management Board as well as the Company Secretary of Ryder Cup Limited.

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Mike joins Wanderers to lead the club’s Commercial and Retail teams and arrives after a successful seven-and-a-half-year period working in the Premier League at Crystal Palace.

A huge football fan, during his time at Selhurst Park, he played a key role in helping the club to deliver sell-out crowds for home matches, record season ticket and shirt sales along with delivering the 2016 FA Cup Final ticket sales – a real highlight of his time there.

Prior to undertaking his role at Palace, Mike had experience in sport working in both football and rugby – for Fulham, Queens Park Rangers, Saracens, and London Wasps. Particular success with Queens Park Rangers led to him joining the Football Association to oversee the development and delivery of Retail, Stadium Tours, Licensing, and Commercial filming for the new Wembley Stadium working across all sporting and entertainment events during an 8-year spell from opening.

Following the appointments, Wanderers CEO Neil Hart said: “On behalf of the Board and myself, we would firstly like to welcome Steve and Mike to the club. They bring a wealth of experience to the business and we are delighted to have them with us on this journey ahead.”



Well we are certainly spending money - still don't know where it really is all coming from though and how they expect to get it all back???

I guess there must be some sort of a plan behind all this?

79Administration latest news - Page 3 Empty Re: Administration latest news Fri Sep 17 2021, 11:28

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
Might as well chuck in a Chris Markham (Technical Performance Director) here as well -

Speaking to The Bolton News, Markham – whose pedigree includes spells at Huddersfield Town and with the Football Association – explained how his new, young team of analysts are hoping to give Ian Evatt and Co the best possible chance of success.

“At first the situation was such that staff were having to cover a myriad of jobs that weren’t really their own. We were missing the specialism,” he said.

“The club, back when they were in the Premier League, had a history of excellence in the backroom. I had high expectations when I came in – although that’s a bit tongue in cheek because I know what the club had gone through. But ultimately there was nearly nothing here.

“When I first sat down with Ian and Sharon Brittan, we decided that the priority would be recruitment, then performance. We had to get Ian as many strings to his bow as quickly as we could.

“On recruitment, we had a blank canvass. There was no database, no reports, no scouts, no staffing. So, we had to get that going right away.

“At the time that was players in League Two with an eye on League One but it evolved quite quickly and we then started looking at players who could not only play in League One but also push us towards the Championship.”

January saw an influx of new blood who would be key to the rapid rise through February and subsequent promotion from League Two, such as Dapo Afolayan, MJ Williams, Declan John and Kieran Lee. But one of the untold stories of last season’s success was how hard support staff had to work to keep the football department ticking over.

“It is quite well documented that Ian only had Pete Atherton (assistant manager) on the training ground,” Markham said. “That has been addressed now, and Ian brought in Sam Hird. We’re delighted with him and I think he’ll continue to add a lot to the coaching environment.

“Everyone was being stretched to the absolute limit last season. Lewis Duckmanton did an excellent job being a support for Ian, providing information. He was effectively doing everybody’s role because we were so short-staffed.

“It was difficult for him to spend as much time on opposition and then analyse our own performances, then before I came along there was a little bit of recruitment work to do as well. He was so thinly spread it was difficult to provide what he wanted to provide.

“By adding another member to that team, he is now able to focus solely on opposition and pre-match. We now have Judah Davies, who has huge potential, and he focuses on our post-match and training data.

“We have every session filmed, we have improved facilities at Lostock, got a fixed camera on the match pitch, mobile solutions so that we can film in any conditions with a decent height so we get a good view the manager can use to analyse technically and tactically.

“As part of that we’re trying to improve the use of that bespoke data to pass on to Ian in a way that will be meaningful to him as well.”

Whereas the use of ProZone to track players on the pitch once looked such a futuristic addition to the training ground, these days the use of GPS tracking is commonplace, even further down the football pyramid.

But Wanderers are still determined to do things their own way. Strength and conditioning coach Matt Pelham has been given an extra pair of hands in Alex Donnelly, and the club has secured some support from Bolton University as they seek to provide better feedback on players’ physical data to the medical and football staff.

“A lot of these lads are young but that’s exciting because we can help mould them into really good practitioners and that can benefit the club and themselves in the long run,” Markham said. “With Matt, can that data help him look for different things beyond the generic? How do we take the information from the GPS trackers and make it more specific to the game of football, or to what the manager needs to see?

“Maybe last year we only had time to do standard reports because everyone was flat out, being a one-man band. We feel like with extra support, it enables us to tailor things to help Ian and the team do the best possible job they can do.

"From the very outset we have said it - but our aim is to be in a league of one.”

Now that the rush job is over, Markham and the whole Wanderers team will have chance to draw breath and look forward.

Planning for the future has not been a luxury this club has been able to indulge during several years of living hand to mouth but with the first ‘phase’ of the rebuilding job complete, Markham hopes to start planning in other areas safe in the knowledge that there is a framework of staff to sustain the progress.

“Now the transfer window is done I will get the chance to be a bit more strategic,” he said. “And that is where the role changes for me.

"It isn’t fighting fires, working things as hard as we can for the here and now.

"We have done that, and I think the evidence points to us doing it successfully, so the next part is succession planning, trying to look at what will be coming in the next two or three windows and asking questions about where we position ourselves.

"What transfer strategy do we want as a club? What are our markets? What are our beliefs on player trading?

“These are important questions and discussions the club hasn’t been able to have for half a dozen years."

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80Administration latest news - Page 3 Empty Re: Administration latest news Fri Sep 17 2021, 11:38

Norpig

Norpig
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
It all sounds as if we are going in the right direction and finally seem more stable than at any time in the last 10 years. 

I watched the Wanderers youtube episode 2 the other night and saw Nick Mason in a Wanderers jacket so is he providing finances in the background?

81Administration latest news - Page 3 Empty Re: Administration latest news Fri Sep 17 2021, 13:09

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:It all sounds as if we are going in the right direction and finally seem more stable than at any time in the last 10 years. 

I watched the Wanderers youtube episode 2 the other night and saw Nick Mason in a Wanderers jacket so is he providing finances in the background?

The truth is mate, nobody knows!

Well of course those involved do but nobody like us know.

My best guess is that there must be a financial stability of some sort at FV but you don't see that from the public accounts they've filed (which actually show the club has more debt than assets to pay them off), so the only conclusion I can come up with is that someone with deep pockets is backing the club and it isn't a priority for them to get their money back soon if at all.

Is that person Sharon?

It could be and she has a few pennies to her name but from what we seem to know of her financial position she doesn't seem to be superrich enough to take such a risk of putting millions into the club and not getting her money back.

I've speculated that there is someone behind her - Mr Brittan for instance - if there is one, or perhaps Mason is that person - now he is superrich and not worried about losing a chunk of millions.

If there is someone then they are not putting money in the club via normal means - there's not been new shares issued and bought and in the June 2020 accounts there didn't seem to have been any unexpected new creditors (secured or unsecured) with loans to pay back, so the only money I can see coming into the club is from Sharon's £20m line of credit  - which presumably Mr Brittan, Nick Mason, or whoever it is, is loaning/giving the money to Sharon (rather than the club) who in turn puts the money in the club under her name.

Bob however doesn't believe Sharon's £20m is a line of credit and he's more knowledgeable about accountancy than I'll ever be but I can't come up with a better guess as to how the club is financed - and someone IS paying the bills - than what I've described above.

It's a bit of a mystery to be honest that no, one outside those involved, have been able to figure out.

82Administration latest news - Page 3 Empty Re: Administration latest news Tue Sep 21 2021, 09:41

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
Another new one in the building - but to be fair he is the replacement for Paul Holliday.



Ex - Burnley apparently...



83Administration latest news - Page 3 Empty Re: Administration latest news Fri Oct 01 2021, 09:15

Ten Bobsworth


El Hadji Diouf
El Hadji Diouf
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:

The truth is mate, nobody knows!

Well of course those involved do but nobody like us know.

My best guess is that there must be a financial stability of some sort at FV but you don't see that from the public accounts they've filed (which actually show the club has more debt than assets to pay them off), so the only conclusion I can come up with is that someone with deep pockets is backing the club and it isn't a priority for them to get their money back soon if at all.

Is that person Sharon?

It could be and she has a few pennies to her name but from what we seem to know of her financial position she doesn't seem to be superrich enough to take such a risk of putting millions into the club and not getting her money back.

I've speculated that there is someone behind her - Mr Brittan for instance - if there is one, or perhaps Mason is that person - now he is superrich and not worried about losing a chunk of millions.

If there is someone then they are not putting money in the club via normal means - there's not been new shares issued and bought and in the June 2020 accounts there didn't seem to have been any unexpected new creditors (secured or unsecured) with loans to pay back, so the only money I can see coming into the club is from Sharon's £20m line of credit  - which presumably Mr Brittan, Nick Mason, or whoever it is, is loaning/giving the money to Sharon (rather than the club) who in turn puts the money in the club under her name.

Bob however doesn't believe Sharon's £20m is a line of credit and he's more knowledgeable about accountancy than I'll ever be but I can't come up with a better guess as to how the club is financed - and someone IS paying the bills - than what I've described above.

It's a bit of a mystery to be honest that no, one outside those involved, have been able to figure out.
No I don't believe there's a £20m line of credit or anything like it, Sluffy. But it must be transparent because Neil Hart says it is.

84Administration latest news - Page 3 Empty Re: Administration latest news Fri Oct 01 2021, 12:11

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:No I don't believe there's a £20m line of credit or anything like it, Sluffy. But it must be transparent because Neil Hart says it is.

It must be very transparent Bob because I don't know of anyone who can 'see' where the money is coming from!

I've not got the accountancy skills that you have but to my simple mind  if the bills are being paid then the money paying them have to be generated by the business through sale of goods and/or services, or through outside investment into the business.

Clearly the club hasn't been able to trade at a profit (let alone doing so during Covid and no crowds) so who has been investing in the business - and how?

There's no room to leverage the assets - they are already fully secured, so the money must either be entering the club as some sort of Director investment/loans, or new share ownership or government Covid loans.

There is no evidence from Companies House that new shares have been issued and we won't know about any increase in unsecured creditors and Covid loans until the filing of the relevant accounts.

The question I ask myself is why would anyone put money into a business that on paper at least has no chance of paying it back?

Whatever Covid loan the club received will need to be repaid at some point and where else is the money being pumped into the club if it isn't from the Directors pockets (or at least via them, if someone else is loaning/giving them the money?).

There could be other ways of paying down the creditors in terms of agreed write offs or indeed some 'sugar daddy' settling debts independently but I think we start to get into deep water about legality and the laws about money laundering (as a small personal example of money laundering regulations, when my daughter was travelling the world just a few years ago I would regularly pay money into her bank account to help her, some months back I tried to do the same but found that was no longer allowed.  I could transfer the money from my account (which was a different bank to the one my daughter uses or I could have done that there and then) to hers, or send the cheque to her to pay it in herself but I could no longer pay it directly into her account myself any more).

My mind therefore keeps coming back then to how are the bills being paid and who are funding them?

It's clearly not from the business' profits.

It doesn't seem to be from new share issues.

It can't be from leverage of known assets (maybe the land in Birmingham was worth millions after all - although I doubt it?).

Government Covid loans might have kept the ship afloat for now but how on earth can they ever be paid back?

If we are ruling out Sharron's £20m are we ruling out the matching £20m from Nick Luckock too?

If we aren't, why then are we ruling out Sharron's £20m?

It all stumps me!

Maybe we might glimmer a bit more when the accounts come around next year, until then I can't 'see' where the money is coming from other than the line of credit amounts which you've ruled out as such - and I accept that to be the case based on your knowledge and expertise in these matters - and my lack of it!

If only we had a business advisor on the site who could explain these things to us...

Very Happy

85Administration latest news - Page 3 Empty Re: Administration latest news Fri Oct 01 2021, 12:39

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
I can help you out there although I only managed teams of business advisers for a few years whilst I was doing my MBA at MBS Smile (I needed a cards-in 9 to 5 so I could find time to study)


1. Nobody apart from those involved know where the funding is coming from
2. The published accounts won't tell you anything that you can be confident about in this regard
3. Your speculation is for your own benefit and serves no other purpose

Clear now?

86Administration latest news - Page 3 Empty Re: Administration latest news Fri Oct 01 2021, 12:50

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:I can help you out there although I only managed teams of business advisers for a few years whilst I was doing my MBA at MBS Smile (I needed a cards-in 9 to 5 so I could find time to study)


1. Nobody apart from those involved know where the funding is coming from
2. The published accounts won't tell you anything that you can be confident about in this regard
3. Your speculation is for your own benefit and serves no other purpose

Clear now?

Yes, abundantly clear thank you.

Abundantly clear you know nothing that is!!!

Razz

87Administration latest news - Page 3 Empty Re: Administration latest news Fri Oct 01 2021, 12:52

BarrygoestoBolton


David Ngog
David Ngog
Don’t you think it’s a possibility that some or all of the investors are doing this for fun?  I would have thought that, if you’re rich enough, investing money to own a sports team might just be a great way of enjoying it. 
In any case, as the club progresses - and surely we all think we’re capable of reaching at least the Championship either this season or, if not, soon afterwards - the value will increase and maybe an investor can have fun now and make their money back later.

88Administration latest news - Page 3 Empty Re: Administration latest news Fri Oct 01 2021, 13:39

Norpig

Norpig
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Hi Barry and welcome to the site, you may want to change your name though as you might get some unwanted messages and pictures of a sensitive nature (from KP) sent to you  Twisted Evil

89Administration latest news - Page 3 Empty Re: Administration latest news Fri Oct 01 2021, 13:40

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:Don’t you think it’s a possibility that some or all of the investors are doing this for fun?  I would have thought that, if you’re rich enough, investing money to own a sports team might just be a great way of enjoying it. 
In any case, as the club progresses - and surely we all think we’re capable of reaching at least the Championship either this season or, if not, soon afterwards - the value will increase and maybe an investor can have fun now and make their money back later.

Hello and welcome Barry.

I'm sure some seriously wealthy investors may well own football clubs for fun but I'm not sure Sharron's personal wealth puts her in that class - maybe it does?

For Sharon or any other investor to make their money back they would have to sell the club at a profit - agreed?

As it stands now Sharon and the other investors paid MORE than the value of all the assets when they bought the club and since then the club has racked up more debt in trading losses.

There does seem someone always out there to buy a club but as we've seen for ourselves how difficult that can be and Sharron was the last stop before liquidation for us.

It's recently been reported that Mel Morris, the owner of Derby County has lost £200m with his involvement with his club -

"Morris became Derby's sole owner in 2015 but has actively been looking to sell since June 2019 following their Championship play-off final defeat by Aston Villa under Frank Lampard. Morris says the club has lost him "in excess of £200m" to date".

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

That may or may not be an exaggeration but Eddie Davies wrote off a similar amount with us.

For what it is worth both Morris and Eddie were local boys to the clubs they bought and did have a personal interested in them as fans themselves - I've never understood the attraction and determination Sharron displayed to buy us, seeing that there appears to be no personal link to our club?  There was certainly sounder financially run clubs far nearer to where she lives that were on the market around the time she bought us.

The thing really what Bob (the poster Ten Bobsworth) and myself have been trying to get our heads around is the mechanics of how whatever money is funding the club is in fact getting there.

It isn't by the club trading at a profit and there's no obvious new investors securing their money against assets so they can get it back if things go wrong, so it does indeed appear to be a vanity project for somebody but who?

Can Sharron happily throw away something like £10m or so to date from her personal wealth just for a bit of fun?

Maybe she can and that's exactly what she is doing - but when the fun stops - like it did for Eddie - what sort of a hole will we be in financially and how many white knights like Sharron will be out there to run to our rescue then?

90Administration latest news - Page 3 Empty Re: Administration latest news Fri Oct 01 2021, 14:00

karlypants

karlypants
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:Hi Barry and welcome to the site, you may want to change your name though as you might get some unwanted messages and pictures of a sensitive nature (from KP) sent to you  Twisted Evil

You are frightened of missing out on all that attention again. Aren't you? Razz

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