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Next Labour leader

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31Next Labour leader - Page 2 Empty Re: Next Labour leader on Sat Jan 04 2020, 19:56

okocha

okocha
Andy Walker
Andy Walker
As Martin suggested, Andy Burnham would be a worthy choice.....

32Next Labour leader - Page 2 Empty Re: Next Labour leader on Sat Jan 04 2020, 20:18

Guest


Guest
Why do you say that Okocha?

I liked Burnham at the last leadership election until the debates, where it became clear he had little personal substance and would say whatever he thought was more likely to get him the job.

33Next Labour leader - Page 2 Empty Re: Next Labour leader on Sat Jan 04 2020, 20:22

Guest


Guest
@xmiles wrote:
T.R.O.Y wrote:Don’t know who I’m voting for, never been fully taken by RLB but I’ll hear what she (and the others) have to say and then decide.

One thing that should be pointed out is that left wing policies polled well, so lurching to the right won’t help either.

I support most of these policies but if you don't win the election the policies are not worth the paper they are written on. To win an election Labour has to win the middle ground - there simply are not enough people with strongly held left wing views to win a general election by only appealing to them.

You’ve missed the point X. Nationalising rail and increasing the minimum wage to £10 weren’t only popular on the left, they polled well across the board.

If we drop the policies we risk losing the strength we have to progressive parties.

34Next Labour leader - Page 2 Empty Re: Next Labour leader on Sat Jan 04 2020, 22:32

xmiles

xmiles
Jay Jay Okocha
Jay Jay Okocha
T.R.O.Y wrote:
@xmiles wrote:
T.R.O.Y wrote:Don’t know who I’m voting for, never been fully taken by RLB but I’ll hear what she (and the others) have to say and then decide.

One thing that should be pointed out is that left wing policies polled well, so lurching to the right won’t help either.

I support most of these policies but if you don't win the election the policies are not worth the paper they are written on. To win an election Labour has to win the middle ground - there simply are not enough people with strongly held left wing views to win a general election by only appealing to them.

You’ve missed the point X. Nationalising rail and increasing the minimum wage to £10 weren’t only popular on the left, they polled well across the board.

If we drop the policies we risk losing the strength we have to progressive parties.

This is getting tedious. I am sure if we could actually talk rather than email each other we could resolve this amicably but to me you are the one missing the point. I am not advocating dropping policies like nationalising the railways. What I am saying is that a Labour manifesto has to be pitched at a broad audience in order to enable Labour to win a majority. It also has to be sold by a capable leader.

At the moment our ongoing argument is just entertaining the Tories on this site. Sad

35Next Labour leader - Page 2 Empty Re: Next Labour leader on Sun Jan 05 2020, 00:06

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
He's in!
Check out the video...

36Next Labour leader - Page 2 Empty Re: Next Labour leader on Sun Jan 05 2020, 00:37

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@boltonbonce wrote:
@xmiles wrote:

Yes I saw that earlier today bonce. Do you think it boosts Starmer's chances or damages them? Laughing  

When I start taking any notice of the Daily Express I'll probably call it a day. Interesting angle though.
Bit rich having political comment from a newspaper owned by tax-dodging, UKIP -funding pornographer Richard Desmond's Northern and Shell company.

37Next Labour leader - Page 2 Empty Re: Next Labour leader on Sun Jan 05 2020, 09:51

Guest


Guest
@xmiles wrote:
T.R.O.Y wrote:
@xmiles wrote:
T.R.O.Y wrote:Don’t know who I’m voting for, never been fully taken by RLB but I’ll hear what she (and the others) have to say and then decide.

One thing that should be pointed out is that left wing policies polled well, so lurching to the right won’t help either.

I support most of these policies but if you don't win the election the policies are not worth the paper they are written on. To win an election Labour has to win the middle ground - there simply are not enough people with strongly held left wing views to win a general election by only appealing to them.

You’ve missed the point X. Nationalising rail and increasing the minimum wage to £10 weren’t only popular on the left, they polled well across the board.

If we drop the policies we risk losing the strength we have to progressive parties.

This is getting tedious. I am sure if we could actually talk rather than email each other we could resolve this amicably but to me you are the one missing the point. I am not advocating dropping policies like nationalising the railways. What I am saying is that a Labour manifesto has to be pitched at a broad audience in order to enable Labour to win a majority. It also has to be sold by a capable leader.

At the moment our ongoing argument is just entertaining the Tories on this site. Sad

To be honest, I think we’re both in agreement that the policies are good but how they were pitched and who they were pitched by are the issue - in that, clearly Corbyn’s alienate large parts of the country.

I’m not sure how we move forward, but that’s for the leadership debates I suppose.

38Next Labour leader - Page 2 Empty Re: Next Labour leader on Sun Jan 05 2020, 14:31

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
T.R.O.Y wrote:
@xmiles wrote:
T.R.O.Y wrote:
@xmiles wrote:
T.R.O.Y wrote:Don’t know who I’m voting for, never been fully taken by RLB but I’ll hear what she (and the others) have to say and then decide.

One thing that should be pointed out is that left wing policies polled well, so lurching to the right won’t help either.

I support most of these policies but if you don't win the election the policies are not worth the paper they are written on. To win an election Labour has to win the middle ground - there simply are not enough people with strongly held left wing views to win a general election by only appealing to them.

You’ve missed the point X. Nationalising rail and increasing the minimum wage to £10 weren’t only popular on the left, they polled well across the board.

If we drop the policies we risk losing the strength we have to progressive parties.

This is getting tedious. I am sure if we could actually talk rather than email each other we could resolve this amicably but to me you are the one missing the point. I am not advocating dropping policies like nationalising the railways. What I am saying is that a Labour manifesto has to be pitched at a broad audience in order to enable Labour to win a majority. It also has to be sold by a capable leader.

At the moment our ongoing argument is just entertaining the Tories on this site. Sad

To be honest, I think we’re both in agreement that the policies are good but how they were pitched and who they were pitched by are the issue - in that, clearly Corbyn’s alienate large parts of the country.

I’m not sure how we move forward, but that’s for the leadership debates I suppose.

I genuinely don't think there is a platform for "policies" at the moment - the only thing that half the country is interested in is leaving the EU and they haven't really thought beyond that.
In a way, it will be good to get Brexit done and then folk will eventually start to refocus on what the Government is actually doing and the issues and decisions we face.
At the moment only half the country is concerned about policy so the leadership campaign could further divide the half that are bothered about policy.

39Next Labour leader - Page 2 Empty Re: Next Labour leader on Sun Jan 05 2020, 15:05

Guest


Guest
Agreed Lust, Labour tried and failed to drag the conversation away from Brexit and onto policy.

40Next Labour leader - Page 2 Empty Re: Next Labour leader on Sun Jan 05 2020, 15:58

Cajunboy

Cajunboy
El Hadji Diouf
El Hadji Diouf
Hilary Benn?

A man respected from all sides of the house, a man who could test Boris at PMQ's, a man who could hopefully bring the party together.  He looks and sounds like a leader.

The question is what is the future for Momentum, a party within a party, can they be destroyed or will they ultimately destroy the Labour Party?

41Next Labour leader - Page 2 Empty Re: Next Labour leader on Sun Jan 05 2020, 16:41

Guest


Guest
Momentum are one of the Labour party’s biggest assets why would you want to destroy them?

42Next Labour leader - Page 2 Empty Re: Next Labour leader on Sun Jan 05 2020, 17:01

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
T.R.O.Y wrote:Momentum are one of the Labour party’s biggest assets why would you want to destroy them?
For the same reasons Militant got banned from the party. Whilst they make a useful contribution to policy and thinking, their dominance of the party makes them an easy target for the Tory media, especially in an age where slander and unsubstantiable fear-mongering are commonplace, out of control and carry no sanctions.
In this day and age, anything can be tarnished - which is easy to do - and for Labour to come back they'll need Jesus, Mother Teresa and Gandhi rolled into one for the leader with a following drawn from the Samaritans, Marie Curie nurses and cuddly kittens.

43Next Labour leader - Page 2 Empty Re: Next Labour leader on Sun Jan 05 2020, 17:03

Cajunboy

Cajunboy
El Hadji Diouf
El Hadji Diouf
T.R.O.Y wrote:Momentum are one of the Labour party’s biggest assets why would you want to destroy them?
Do you think they were one of the Labour party's biggest assets during the recent General Election?

44Next Labour leader - Page 2 Empty Re: Next Labour leader on Sun Jan 05 2020, 17:57

Guest


Guest
@Cajunboy wrote:
T.R.O.Y wrote:Momentum are one of the Labour party’s biggest assets why would you want to destroy them?
Do you think they were one of the Labour party's biggest assets during the recent General Election?

In terms of on the ground campaigning yes, they’ve mobilised large portions of the membership. What is it you think they do?

45Next Labour leader - Page 2 Empty Re: Next Labour leader on Sun Jan 05 2020, 19:00

okocha

okocha
Andy Walker
Andy Walker
I see the Express has already begun trying to discredit the candidate they obviously fear is the main Labour threat to Boris and the Tories.....a fear of Sir Keir. (Catchy, huh?)

 Shameless distortion of the man's background, record and beliefs.

46Next Labour leader - Page 2 Empty Re: Next Labour leader on Sun Jan 05 2020, 19:11

Cajunboy

Cajunboy
El Hadji Diouf
El Hadji Diouf
T.R.O.Y wrote:
@Cajunboy wrote:
T.R.O.Y wrote:Momentum are one of the Labour party’s biggest assets why would you want to destroy them?
Do you think they were one of the Labour party's biggest assets during the recent General Election?

In terms of on the ground campaigning yes, they’ve mobilised large portions of the membership. What is it you think they do?
I think they keep the Labour party out of being in government.

It's the voters who aren't in the membership that win or lose elections!

47Next Labour leader - Page 2 Empty Re: Next Labour leader on Sun Jan 05 2020, 19:46

Guest


Guest
How do they do that though? They have no sway over policy, it’s a set of activists.

48Next Labour leader - Page 2 Empty Re: Next Labour leader on Mon Jan 06 2020, 15:38

Cajunboy

Cajunboy
El Hadji Diouf
El Hadji Diouf
T.R.O.Y wrote:How do they do that though? They have no sway over policy, it’s a set of activists.
The wrong policies chosen by the activists don't win elections, which is why Boris could be in power for a very long time.

49Next Labour leader - Page 2 Empty Re: Next Labour leader on Mon Jan 06 2020, 16:26

Guest


Guest
Ye tricky one, members of any political party are bound to be more passionate and engaged than your average Joe - but it’s the average Joe who parties need to convince.

The members have a say in the policies which is a good thing. I liked them, according to polls most did. But the message wasn’t clear and the conversation was mainly about Brexit.

On the other hand Boris didn’t really have any policies.

We’ll see what happens I suppose, Boris has managed to blag a lot of people. They might see through it soon.

50Next Labour leader - Page 2 Empty Re: Next Labour leader on Mon Jan 06 2020, 16:35

Cajunboy

Cajunboy
El Hadji Diouf
El Hadji Diouf
It's going to be very interesting.

51Next Labour leader - Page 2 Empty Re: Next Labour leader on Mon Jan 06 2020, 18:20

xmiles

xmiles
Jay Jay Okocha
Jay Jay Okocha
@Cajunboy wrote:It's going to be very interesting.

More like frightening. Even when people who voted for Boris realise he has let them down he will still be there for 5 years.

52Next Labour leader - Page 2 Empty Re: Next Labour leader on Mon Jan 06 2020, 18:23

Natasha Whittam

Natasha Whittam
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@xmiles wrote:More like frightening. Even when people who voted for Boris realise he has let them down he will still be there for 5 years.

I'm happy with Boris so far.

53Next Labour leader - Page 2 Empty Re: Next Labour leader on Mon Jan 06 2020, 18:24

xmiles

xmiles
Jay Jay Okocha
Jay Jay Okocha
@Natasha Whittam wrote:
@xmiles wrote:More like frightening. Even when people who voted for Boris realise he has let them down he will still be there for 5 years.

I'm happy with Boris so far.

Give it time. Smile

54Next Labour leader - Page 2 Empty Re: Next Labour leader on Mon Jan 06 2020, 19:51

Guest


Guest
Trump once said he could shoot someone in Times Square and still retain his supporters adoration. Suspect Boris is the same.

55Next Labour leader - Page 2 Empty Re: Next Labour leader on Mon Jan 06 2020, 21:39

gloswhite

gloswhite
Guðni Bergsson
Guðni Bergsson
I found all this really interesting. Labour/ Remain supporters are having to face up to the fact that things they believed in, be it policies or personnel, have been shot down in flames, by 'traditional' Labour supporters as much as anyone else, (and no, I don't want to be inundated with meaningless statistics). Instead of facing up to it, and discussing the best way forward, you argue amongst yourselves as to what was, and not what could be. 
As a Brexiteer, I agree with XM, Corbyn was a disaster, and it was blatantly obvious that he wanted out of Europe, and in no meaningful way did he show support for remaining. He was our best weapon in the whole 3 years. Even more effective than Bercow was for the Remainers. 
As for policies, there were one or two that would have benefited the country, but when rolled in with so many others, sometimes unfunded, the public knew that Labour were crumbling when they promised anything to anyone, which was completely unsupportable. I hope the far left stay in power behind the Labour Party, as they've made such a mess of the party that voters will realise that sensible politicians are being driven by a bunch of myopic lunatics, ably supported by the unions. Eventually the party will realise they have to change, or die.
TROY, from what I've read here, if Labour were to follow your advice, you would never get in again.

56Next Labour leader - Page 2 Empty Re: Next Labour leader on Mon Jan 06 2020, 21:51

Guest


Guest
What’s my advice?

57Next Labour leader - Page 2 Empty Re: Next Labour leader on Mon Jan 06 2020, 21:58

gloswhite

gloswhite
Guðni Bergsson
Guðni Bergsson
T.R.O.Y wrote:What’s my advice?
Can I suggest you re-read your postings, and you will see that your thoughts  would amount to advice to keep the current format as much as possible. That's how I read it, and to my mind, it would be unproductive in the extreme.

58Next Labour leader - Page 2 Empty Re: Next Labour leader on Mon Jan 06 2020, 22:10

Guest


Guest
I hope they keep the main policies - nationalise rail and energy and properly fund public services. That’s what I voted for. Am I not entitled to want that?

59Next Labour leader - Page 2 Empty Re: Next Labour leader on Mon Jan 06 2020, 23:33

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Personality and credibility is what most folk currently vote for - or in Boris's case just personality. As for "policies" they only vote for leaving the EU as a policy, not what the Government will do to avert the crisis that is set to emerge over the next few years - assuming we do actually leave without any favourable trade deals in the near future which looks very much on the cards.

60Next Labour leader - Page 2 Empty Re: Next Labour leader on Mon Jan 06 2020, 23:35

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
Labour leadership: Rebecca Long-Bailey enters race

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-51012381

Next Labour leader - Page 2 _110339287_mediaitem110339184

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