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Bolton Nuts » BWFC » Wandering Minds » How is the Tory government doing?

How is the Tory government doing?

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511How is the Tory government doing? - Page 18 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? on Wed Jul 15 2020, 11:07

gloswhite

gloswhite
Guðni Bergsson
Guðni Bergsson
Is that the only advice the NCSC gave, or are you cherry picking again?

512How is the Tory government doing? - Page 18 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? on Wed Jul 15 2020, 11:21

xmiles

xmiles
Jay Jay Okocha
Jay Jay Okocha
Read the report glos. Para 41 is the summary and specifically advises against what this government has now announced it is going to do.

513How is the Tory government doing? - Page 18 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? on Wed Jul 15 2020, 12:01

gloswhite

gloswhite
Guðni Bergsson
Guðni Bergsson
OK, I was just being lazy  Very Happy

514How is the Tory government doing? - Page 18 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? on Wed Jul 15 2020, 12:04

xmiles

xmiles
Jay Jay Okocha
Jay Jay Okocha
:nono: Smile

515How is the Tory government doing? - Page 18 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? on Wed Jul 15 2020, 12:56

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
@xmiles wrote:So the BBC is merely "social media" now?

To take two direct quotes from the NCSC report:

In para 1 it states "This update was driven by the US Foreign-Produced Direct Product Rule Amendment (FDPRA)" thus proving that the measures are indeed driven by American pressure on the UK government and vindicating the BBC report.

Para 41 reads in full: Given the increasing risk associated with Huawei, it is natural that some will argue that the UK should remove the latent risk by removing Huawei equipment entirely from all the UK’s fixed and mobile networks. As part of its analysis, the NCSC considered this option in detail and concluded that this would present substantial resilience and security risks for the UK, and that these far outweighed the risk of retaining this equipment within UK networks.  

Yet the government has ignored this advice and Culture Secretary Oliver Dowden has announced that the UK's mobile providers must remove all of Huawei's 5G kit from their networks by 2027.

So yet another example of Boris backing down under American pressure despite the advice of the NCSC.

Eh???

Don't know what you are talking about?

Have you read the report yourself or just jumped directly to read the 'summarised' summary?

What the report says in a nutshell is that the UK government is happy to progress with Huawei to put in 5G (within defined limits) but the affect of Americas sanctions means Huawei - who use American components/technology needed to do this are no longer able to do so.

It was thought that it might have been possible for Huawei to manufacture their own components/technology in China (hence why Johnson confirmed the continued approval for the deal (and what the constraints placed on it were) but a further round of sanctions from America prevented the possibility of that happening.

That meant the only way Huawei could continue without breaking sanctions was to source the components/technology from a third party.  

Which third party could that be because it wouldn't be from a westernised country as I don't think many/any trust working with Huawei even before US sanctions and certainly wouldn't be complicit in helping them avoid them - so who is left to supply the components - Russia, North Korea and who else?

Anyway the report says whoever it might have been was a risk too great and thus the withdrawal from the partnership on security grounds.

If America hadn't imposed sanctions, then compounded this by later adding more, then we would have continued with Huawei.

As for Para 41, what it means is this - yes it would be ideal if there was no longer ANY Huawei kit and systems embedded anywhere in our networks BUT to stop and strip it all out now would cost billions, compromise security and set the development to 5G back years.  The report said however that risk was greater than leaving it in situ.

I'll emphasise that point again, namely there is still a RISK in leaving existing Huawei kit and systems embedded.

So if it can't be removed right away and it a risk leaving it, then the only solution is to dismantle it all within a acceptable time scale which is exactly what is going to happen.

So yes we are doing all this because America doesn't trust China (which I believe is a reasonable position to take) and I assume visa versa from the Chinese point of view - and not because America has done all this simply to get a trade deal with us post Brexit and sell us dodgy chicken (which I most point out, that we all EAT when we go on our holidays to America and which I assume our American based Nut posters such as Obs and Fin have probably been eating for years now, with little if any ill effects).

As I so often say all this is simply politics (read politics as 'power') at work.

It's all a big game.

Yes it effects all our lives but clearly after all these millenniums of evaluation we still as the human race can't all get along and play nice and help each other, then what alternative is there short of blasting each other out of existence?

China almost certainly caused the current world pandemic by not being honest and open from the very start and America has bought up the world supply of the proposed vaccine for themselves - both put themselves first before everyone else and both are as bad as each other to me.

But there's nothing I'm capable of doing to change that, so I can't see any reason to get het up and angry over such stuff and can't really understand why so many people do?

We are all being manipulated to some extent, so my philosophy is to enjoy the ride - as the only other alternative is not being happy and not enjoying the ride and what's the point of life in doing that?

As the wise man sang...

...don't worry, be happy.

Very Happy

516How is the Tory government doing? - Page 18 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? on Wed Jul 15 2020, 14:33

okocha

okocha
Andy Walker
Andy Walker
Visa Test:- Nearly 750,00 foreign key workers currently in the UK would have been blocked from coming under the Government's post-brexit migration plan, the Home Office has admitted.

 Low-skilled migrants, including carers, taxi drivers, hospital porters and prison officers will be unable to apply for work visas from January in a points-based system which has been labelled as "an insult" to carers and other migrant workers. 

Will low-paid Brits fill the void, do you think?

517How is the Tory government doing? - Page 18 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? on Wed Jul 15 2020, 14:48

okocha

okocha
Andy Walker
Andy Walker

518How is the Tory government doing? - Page 18 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? on Wed Jul 15 2020, 14:52

xmiles

xmiles
Jay Jay Okocha
Jay Jay Okocha

Good article and he mentions the Huawei fiasco.

519How is the Tory government doing? - Page 18 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? on Wed Jul 15 2020, 15:08

gloswhite

gloswhite
Guðni Bergsson
Guðni Bergsson
@okocha wrote:Visa Test:- Nearly 750,00 foreign key workers currently in the UK would have been blocked from coming under the Government's post-brexit migration plan, the Home Office has admitted.

 Low-skilled migrants, including carers, taxi drivers, hospital porters and prison officers will be unable to apply for work visas from January in a points-based system which has been labelled as "an insult" to carers and other migrant workers. 

Will low-paid Brits fill the void, do you think?
I don't see why not. Were coming into a time when there will be many many people out of work. isn't it right to give them the opportunity to change career, rather than pay them to stay at home and import other workers to cover the jobs?

520How is the Tory government doing? - Page 18 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? on Wed Jul 15 2020, 15:27

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@gloswhite wrote:
I don't see why not. Were coming into a time when there will be many many people out of work. isn't it right to give them the opportunity to change career, rather than pay them to stay at home and import other workers to cover the jobs?
Seeing as the opportunities for migrants came about by Brits refusing this type of work in the first instance it seems highly unlikely unless the Government withdraws benefits from able- bodied folk who refuse the work.

521How is the Tory government doing? - Page 18 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? on Wed Jul 15 2020, 16:33

gloswhite

gloswhite
Guðni Bergsson
Guðni Bergsson
@wanderlust wrote:
Seeing as the opportunities for migrants came about by Brits refusing this type of work in the first instance it seems highly unlikely unless the Government withdraws benefits from able- bodied folk who refuse the work.
Its not beyond possibility. The times they are a'changing.

522How is the Tory government doing? - Page 18 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? on Wed Jul 15 2020, 16:58

T.R.O.Y.


Tony Kelly
Tony Kelly
Covid might change peoples minds/make them more desperate for work. Can't imagine this is the dream Brexit was sold on though - and there's no guarantees of course.

Looking at the current situation i do think it's madness this government is pressing on with Brexit, it could hardly have come at a worse time, yet we're planning on spending billions on our borders and millions on PR exercises for government guidance raising awareness of what basically reads like what would have been called 'project fear' a few months back:

Higher insurance
Roaming mobile phone costs
The need for longer passport validity
Pet vaccinations
More red tape for businesses

Sunday Times article on that here for those with a subscription, it was free to read earlier in the week: https://bit.ly/32d80FE

523How is the Tory government doing? - Page 18 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? on Wed Jul 15 2020, 17:45

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@T.R.O.Y. wrote:
Looking at the current situation i do think it's madness this government is pressing on with Brexit, it could hardly have come at a worse time, yet we're planning on spending billions on our borders and millions on PR exercises for government guidance raising awareness of what basically reads like what would have been called 'project fear' a few months back:

Higher insurance
Roaming mobile phone costs
The need for longer passport validity
Pet vaccinations
More red tape for businesses

Sunday Times article on that here for those with a subscription, it was free to read earlier in the week: https://bit.ly/32d80FE
But they're not pressing on with Brexit are they?

Zero progress has been made and fundamental disagreements remain. Likelihood is no deal which means disaster for the UK come Christmas.

524How is the Tory government doing? - Page 18 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? on Wed Jul 15 2020, 17:50

Natasha Whittam

Natasha Whittam
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Can I ask the Mods to do their job and delete any Brexit posts that appear outside the Brexit thread.

There's enough doom and gloom in the world without having to read more Brexit shit from the usual suspects.

525How is the Tory government doing? - Page 18 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? on Wed Jul 15 2020, 17:56

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
@wanderlust wrote:
@T.R.O.Y. wrote:
Looking at the current situation i do think it's madness this government is pressing on with Brexit, it could hardly have come at a worse time, yet we're planning on spending billions on our borders and millions on PR exercises for government guidance raising awareness of what basically reads like what would have been called 'project fear' a few months back:

Higher insurance
Roaming mobile phone costs
The need for longer passport validity
Pet vaccinations
More red tape for businesses

Sunday Times article on that here for those with a subscription, it was free to read earlier in the week: https://bit.ly/32d80FE
But they're not pressing on with Brexit are they?

Zero progress has been made and fundamental disagreements remain. Likelihood is no deal which means disaster for the UK come Christmas.

Fwiw the country voted for Brexit three times, the referendum, the 2019 European elections (The Brexit Party won the biggest share of the votes and seats - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48403131 ) and the 2019 General Election.

No matter how big a disaster it may/may not, turn out to be - it is what the people have voted for and those who can't/won't accept that are simply in denial I'm afraid.

526How is the Tory government doing? - Page 18 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? on Wed Jul 15 2020, 18:13

xmiles

xmiles
Jay Jay Okocha
Jay Jay Okocha
I doubt we would get the same result now the real consequences of brexit are starting to dawn on people as opposed to the lies fed to them by brexiteers.

https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/politics/support-for-brexit-is-collapsing-poll/26/06/

527How is the Tory government doing? - Page 18 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? on Wed Jul 15 2020, 18:30

T.R.O.Y.


Tony Kelly
Tony Kelly
@Natasha Whittam wrote:Can I ask the Mods to do their job and delete any Brexit posts that appear outside the Brexit thread.

There's enough doom and gloom in the world without having to read more Brexit shit from the usual suspects.

You come on the how is the government doing thread for a good time? 

You should know better.

528How is the Tory government doing? - Page 18 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? on Wed Jul 15 2020, 18:32

T.R.O.Y.


Tony Kelly
Tony Kelly
@Sluffy wrote:No matter how big a disaster it may/may not, turn out to be - it is what the people have voted for and those who can't/won't accept that are simply in denial I'm afraid.



I don't think there are many left still fighting Brexit, so not sure what you're getting at here.

529How is the Tory government doing? - Page 18 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? on Wed Jul 15 2020, 18:45

Natasha Whittam

Natasha Whittam
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@T.R.O.Y. wrote:You come on the how is the government doing thread for a good time? 

You should know better.

I come on here to read views about the state of the pandemic, not to read Brexit posts repeated OVER AND OVER AND OVER again by the same posters.


530How is the Tory government doing? - Page 18 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? on Wed Jul 15 2020, 19:24

T.R.O.Y.


Tony Kelly
Tony Kelly
Each to their own I suppose. As always, just posting what’s on my mind and wasn’t intended to upset anyone.

531How is the Tory government doing? - Page 18 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? on Wed Jul 15 2020, 20:15

Natasha Whittam

Natasha Whittam
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@T.R.O.Y. wrote:Each to their own I suppose. As always, just posting what’s on my mind and wasn’t intended to upset anyone.

Well it upset me and I demand a written apology in blood.

532How is the Tory government doing? - Page 18 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? on Wed Jul 15 2020, 20:52

T.R.O.Y.


Tony Kelly
Tony Kelly
Fair enough, as I said not intended to upset so apologies if it has (blood might be a bit far for me though).

I won’t post about Brexit on here - got to say though, we supposedly want people to post more but I basically get told to shut up if someone’s bored of a topic I’m interested in. I don’t get it, and I don’t agree with it.

If there’s a posts/topics/posters I don’t find interesting, I just don’t read them.

533How is the Tory government doing? - Page 18 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? on Wed Jul 15 2020, 20:57

Natasha Whittam

Natasha Whittam
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@T.R.O.Y. wrote:If there’s a posts/topics/posters I don’t find interesting, I just don’t read them.

Me too, so I avoid the Brexit thread because it's just people rehashing the same old points.

I guess I'm just sick of all the negativity.

534How is the Tory government doing? - Page 18 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? on Wed Jul 15 2020, 21:02

T.R.O.Y.


Tony Kelly
Tony Kelly
I won’t get bored of Brexit for a while I don’t think, as the illusion falls apart the more irritated I am by it. 

But fair enough, as i said happy to keep this to slagging the Tories off for everything other than Brexit where possible.

535How is the Tory government doing? - Page 18 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? on Wed Jul 15 2020, 21:11

Natasha Whittam

Natasha Whittam
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@T.R.O.Y. wrote:I won’t get bored of Brexit for a while I don’t think, as the illusion falls apart the more irritated I am by it. 

But fair enough, as i said happy to keep this to slagging the Tories off for everything other than Brexit where possible.

Nah forget it, if it interests you that's fair enough and who am I to stop you posting where you want. I'll avoid this thread for a bit.

536How is the Tory government doing? - Page 18 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? on Wed Jul 15 2020, 21:33

T.R.O.Y.


Tony Kelly
Tony Kelly
Feel like it’s picked up a bit round here lately (all hail Boggers) so let’s both just keep posting whatever, and I’ll get off my high horse for a bit.

537How is the Tory government doing? - Page 18 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? on Wed Jul 15 2020, 23:07

xmiles

xmiles
Jay Jay Okocha
Jay Jay Okocha
A bit of good news for a change. Boris' halfwit poodle Grayling won't be chairing the Intelligence and Security Committee because a Tory MP had principles. Of course he was kicked out of the Tory party for this crime.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-53422010

538How is the Tory government doing? - Page 18 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? on Wed Jul 15 2020, 23:13

xmiles

xmiles
Jay Jay Okocha
Jay Jay Okocha
On the other hand they are burying the report into Patel's bullying behaviour.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-53422019

539How is the Tory government doing? - Page 18 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? on Thu Jul 16 2020, 01:52

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
@xmiles wrote:I doubt we would get the same result now the real consequences of brexit are starting to dawn on people as opposed to the lies fed to them by brexiteers.

Think not?

Then think again.

People are still saying they'd cast their vote for the bloke who won the referendum and last years General Election committed to delivering Brexit.

Also suggests very strongly that despite what the majority on here think about the Government and it's handling of the pandemic/highest death rate/PPE issues/care home deaths/Cummings little drive to test his eyesight/etc, etc and it's U-turns and various cock-ups so far - that the electorate still prefer them to Labour or anyone else!

As the poll only taken last week!




All pretty meaningless I know but despite what you may think many people are long past caring about Brexit and will deal with it if and when the consequences of it start to negatively effect them.

540How is the Tory government doing? - Page 18 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? on Thu Jul 16 2020, 10:05

xmiles

xmiles
Jay Jay Okocha
Jay Jay Okocha
You are comparing apples with pears.

The survey I provided a link to was specifically about current views on brexit. You provided details of a poll showing how people say they would vote if there were a general election.

The only thing we agree on is that it is all totally hypothetical as there won't be either another referendum or a general election for years.

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