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Bolton Nuts » BWFC » Wandering Minds » Brexit Watch

Brexit Watch

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Ten Bobsworth
Hipster_Nebula
gloswhite
okocha
Cajunboy
Natasha Whittam
Angry Dad
Norpig
Sluffy
sunlight
karlypants
boltonbonce
wanderlust
xmiles
18 posters

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181Brexit Watch - Page 7 Empty Re: Brexit Watch Thu Sep 23 2021, 14:44

T.R.O.Y.


Andy Walker
Andy Walker
Open my eyes to what? You’re commenting on an ongoing court case with complete certainty but no evidence. What do you think this proves?

182Brexit Watch - Page 7 Empty Re: Brexit Watch Thu Sep 23 2021, 14:56

boltonbonce

boltonbonce
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Maugham always reminds me of Mr Frankland, a minor character in Conan Doyle's Hound of the Baskervilles.
Mr. Frankland is an elderly resident of the Devonshire County who enjoys frivolous lawsuits. He scans the moor with his telescope to find the escaped convict and inadvertently discovers the mysterious man on the tor.
The villagers are either carrying him shoulder high through the streets, or burning him in effigy, depending on his latest lawsuit.

183Brexit Watch - Page 7 Empty Re: Brexit Watch Thu Sep 23 2021, 15:06

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
@T.R.O.Y. wrote:Open my eyes to what? You’re commenting on an ongoing court case with complete certainty but no evidence. What do you think this proves?

Eh???

You've clearly not read the links or you certainly would not posted what you have!

The links are to the court papers presented in evidence to the judge ffs!!!

I was trying to open your eyes to there being two sides to every story.

Try reading them and come back and tell me the company dragged into this by Maugham's agenda against the government hasn't got open, honest, factual  and compelling reasons for his allegations against them to be kicked out - which they will - as they seem determined to defend themselves by putting their case in to the public domain by publishing it all on the front page of their company website for all to see!!!

I think they would actually love to have their day in court given the chance!

184Brexit Watch - Page 7 Empty Re: Brexit Watch Thu Sep 23 2021, 16:18

T.R.O.Y.


Andy Walker
Andy Walker
I’ve no idea what’s gone on, but actual evidence would be the release of emails and private phone records - not a statement from one of the actors in the affair. 

Can’t believe you would just take their statements as gospel to be honest, very loose.

185Brexit Watch - Page 7 Empty Re: Brexit Watch Thu Sep 23 2021, 17:23

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
@T.R.O.Y. wrote:I’ve no idea what’s gone on, but actual evidence would be the release of emails and private phone records - not a statement from one of the actors in the affair. 

Can’t believe you would just take their statements as gospel to be honest, very loose.

Hahaha!

What, you believe a reputable medical company with an international reputation, being represented by a Queens Counsel, with evidence of all their dealings with the government in all forms (phones, emails, social media, etc, etc, etc) to be provide as evidence if required at a full hearing, are telling porkies to a high court judge???

You really are showing your ignorance and naivety once again.

I don't have to take their statement as gospel, I know how the system works, unlike you.

If the judge in his pre-trial review, where he reads the submissions from all sides - which would include the documentation from Abbington Health - which we can read because they've voluntary put it into the public domain has any doubts he can (and will) order them to present the evidence they state they have - and they say they have everything!

This isn't social media behaviour you realise?

It wouldn't surprised me if GLP either drops their allegations in respect of Abbington Health or at least not purse it (as they didn't pursue elements of other JR they've done recently) and that's even if the judge doesn't strike it out first!

186Brexit Watch - Page 7 Empty Re: Brexit Watch Thu Sep 23 2021, 17:43

T.R.O.Y.


Andy Walker
Andy Walker
'This isn't social media behaviour you realise?' Laughing

Love how you try and frame anyone you disagree with as a social media obsessed loon these days.

I'm not sure what argument you're trying to manufacture here but i don't want any part in it. Maybe it is all a waste of time on Maugham's part but I'll be interested to see what comes out eventually either way.

187Brexit Watch - Page 7 Empty Re: Brexit Watch Thu Sep 23 2021, 18:19

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
@T.R.O.Y. wrote:'This isn't social media behaviour you realise?' Laughing

Love how you try and frame anyone you disagree with as a social media obsessed loon these days.

I'm not sure what argument you're trying to manufacture here but i don't want any part in it. Maybe it is all a waste of time on Maugham's part but I'll be interested to see what comes out eventually either way.


Probably because many, many people are utter loons when it comes to social media.

I can't get over how so many who claim that they have responsible jobs on their twitter bio's (of course it may well be lies - I know that) seem to switch their brains off and believe utter bollocks on social media and don't even bother to verify what they take as gospel/simply on trust - because it fits in with what they want to hear.

I'm not manufacturing any argument by the way, I merely point out that I have read both sides of the case and I would guess that not many others have who blindly follow just what Maugham tweets on social media.

That certainly seems to be normal social media behaviour to me - believing without checking simply because it fits in with what they want to hear - and rejecting without even hearing the other side of the story.

Did you read it for instance before typing what you did...?

Anyway it is what it is, and I don't really think most people are as impartial and interested enough to listen to both sides as I do. In fact I'm sure there aren't.

There's one born every minute or so they say and most of them seem to have unaccompanied social media access these days!

188Brexit Watch - Page 7 Empty Re: Brexit Watch Thu Sep 23 2021, 18:37

T.R.O.Y.


Andy Walker
Andy Walker
If the Sluffy character is a work of fiction it’s a comedy masterpiece and full credit to you.

189Brexit Watch - Page 7 Empty Re: Brexit Watch Thu Sep 23 2021, 22:03

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
@T.R.O.Y. wrote:If the Sluffy character is a work of fiction it’s a comedy masterpiece and full credit to you.

Thank you, I'll take that as a compliment, even if I doubt it was intended to be.

I am, who I am.

If you or anyone else wants to believe I'm real or fake, then please go right ahead, it doesn't bother me either way!

Enjoy the rest of your evening.

190Brexit Watch - Page 7 Empty Re: Brexit Watch Sat Sep 25 2021, 09:13

okocha

okocha
El Hadji Diouf
El Hadji Diouf
Time for government ministers and some newspapers to finally do the decent thing and admit that Brexit was a disastrous idea built on lies and exaggeration....

Come to think of it, they need to start being honest about their many failings whilst in power....and apologise, rather than try to shift the blame.

191Brexit Watch - Page 7 Empty Re: Brexit Watch Sat Sep 25 2021, 13:07

Natasha Whittam

Natasha Whittam
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@okocha wrote:Time for government ministers and some newspapers to finally do the decent thing and admit that Brexit was a disastrous idea built on lies and exaggeration....

Come to think of it, they need to start being honest about their many failings whilst in power....and apologise, rather than try to shift the blame.

Time for you to change the record.

Brexit was always going to be short/medium term pain for long term gain.

Anyone who regularly uses HGV drivers has had 5 years to prepare for this day. In that time they could have trained thousands of new drivers. But that costs money. And all these big companies don't want to spend money on British drivers because that means higher wages and better benefits/conditions.

So, of course, they put pressure on the government to let in foreign drivers who are, of course, cheaper and expect less.

Brexit will eventually lead to better wages for all, but especially those currently earning minimum wage. And that is a good thing.

So instead of blaming the government, blame the lack of investment from these huge companies that make millions in profit every year.

192Brexit Watch - Page 7 Empty Re: Brexit Watch Sat Sep 25 2021, 13:28

okocha

okocha
El Hadji Diouf
El Hadji Diouf
If only the issue was only about shortage of lorry drivers!

193Brexit Watch - Page 7 Empty Re: Brexit Watch Sat Sep 25 2021, 14:06

Natasha Whittam

Natasha Whittam
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@okocha wrote:If only the issue was only about shortage of lorry drivers!

Right now it's the shortage of labour that is causing the most grief.

Too many companies have a business model based on cheap labour from abroad. They're soon going to realise those days are over.

Long term we will be a stronger.

194Brexit Watch - Page 7 Empty Re: Brexit Watch Sat Sep 25 2021, 18:06

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@Natasha Whittam wrote:

Right now it's the shortage of labour that is causing the most grief.

Too many companies have a business model based on cheap labour from abroad. They're soon going to realise those days are over.

Long term we will be a stronger.
Too many lying Governments have a business model based on trade deals they were never going to and never will get and imaginary revenue sources that the people will be taxed for instead.

Long term we will all be poorer and have less choice and freedom.

195Brexit Watch - Page 7 Empty Re: Brexit Watch Sat Sep 25 2021, 18:09

T.R.O.Y.


Andy Walker
Andy Walker
‘Project fear’ beginning to look understated. Has anyone managed to find a benefit of Brexit yet?

196Brexit Watch - Page 7 Empty Re: Brexit Watch Sat Sep 25 2021, 18:36

Natasha Whittam

Natasha Whittam
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@T.R.O.Y. wrote:‘Project fear’ beginning to look understated. Has anyone managed to find a benefit of Brexit yet?

Ask that question again in 5 years and the answer will be relevant.

197Brexit Watch - Page 7 Empty Re: Brexit Watch Sat Sep 25 2021, 18:41

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@Natasha Whittam wrote:

Ask that question again in 5 years and the answer will be relevant.
Wasn't the "jam tomorrow" argument used 5 years ago?

198Brexit Watch - Page 7 Empty Re: Brexit Watch Sat Sep 25 2021, 20:35

okocha

okocha
El Hadji Diouf
El Hadji Diouf
@Natasha Whittam wrote:

Ask that question again in 5 years and the answer will be relevant.
Even if that were true, too much irredeemable damage would have been done to UK citizens' lives. Look around you at the immediate effects right now, and name one benefit we have had from the folly of Farage and Johnson.....and The Express/Mail/Sun/Telegraph.

199Brexit Watch - Page 7 Empty Re: Brexit Watch Sat Sep 25 2021, 20:56

okocha

okocha
El Hadji Diouf
El Hadji Diouf
@okocha wrote:
Even if that were true, too much irredeemable damage would have been done to UK citizens' lives. Look around you at the immediate effects right now, and name one benefit we have had from the folly of Farage and Johnson.....and The Express/Mail/Sun/Telegraph.
And while you're at it, name one cabinet minister that you can respect and feel has made a positive, worthwhile contribution to our daily lives.

200Brexit Watch - Page 7 Empty Re: Brexit Watch Sat Sep 25 2021, 21:20

T.R.O.Y.


Andy Walker
Andy Walker
@Natasha Whittam wrote:

Ask that question again in 5 years and the answer will be relevant.

Fair point, but so far I can’t see any positives - and nothing really on the horizon either.

201Brexit Watch - Page 7 Empty Re: Brexit Watch Sat Sep 25 2021, 22:16

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
@T.R.O.Y. wrote:
@Natasha Whittam wrote:

Ask that question again in 5 years and the answer will be relevant.

Fair point, but so far I can’t see any positives - and nothing really on the horizon either.

Bit of a pity then that Labour didn't have a leader calling for its members to vote Remain, wasn't it?

Corbyn’s changing Brexit stance

Backbench Eurosceptic

It’s fair to say that for the majority of his political life, Mr Corbyn has been less than enthusiastic about the EU.

In 2015, he told Reuters that he voted against Britain’s membership of the trade bloc’s forerunner, the European Economic Community, when Labour Prime Minister Harold Wilson put the question to a public ballot in 1975.

And his scepticism continued as a backbench MP.

In 1993, he described the “great danger to the cause of socialism in this country or any other country of the imposition of a bankers’ Europe on the people of this country”.

Three years later, he railed against “a European bureaucracy totally unaccountable to anybody,” lamenting that “powers have gone from national parliaments”.

Ahead of Ireland’s 2009 referendum on the Lisbon Treaty, Mr Corbyn said of the EU’s ties with NATO: “We are creating for ourselves here one massive great Frankenstein that will damage all of us in the long run.”

‘Lukewarm’ referendum campaign?

The Labour leader was criticised by some in the party for what they considered his “lukewarm” campaigning during the 2016 referendum.

The Labour leader was criticised* by some in the party for what they considered his “lukewarm” campaigning during the 2016 referendum.

Just weeks before the vote, he famously told Channel 4’s The Last Leg that his enthusiasm for EU membership was about “seven, or seven and a half out of 10”.

But in a separate speech at the time, he maintained that despite its deficiencies, there was still an “overwhelming case” for remaining in the trade bloc.

https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-corbyns-changing-brexit-stance

- * The head of the official remain campaign, former Labour election candidate Will Straw, said in an interview with the BBC for a programme on the referendum to be aired on Monday, that he felt “let down” by Corbyn’s “lukewarm” support in the referendum. Straw complained that it had taken him six months to secure a meeting with one of the leader’s advisers.

Former European commissioner Lord Mandelson also told the BBC that remain campaigners were left puzzling over whether Corbyn, who told a chat show during the campaign that he would only rate the EU seven out of 10, really wanted Britain to stay in the 28-nation bloc.

The Labour peer told the programme, Brexit – The Battle for Britain: “It was very difficult to know what Jeremy Corbyn’s motives were. Did he just sort of get out of bed the wrong side every day and not feel [in a] very sort of friendly, happy mood and want to help us?

"Or was there something deeper – did he simply not want to find himself on the same side as the prime minister and the government? Or perhaps he just, deep down, actually doesn’t think we should remain in the European Union? Who knows?”

Mandelson added: “We were greatly damaged by Jeremy Corbyn’s stance, no doubt at all about that.

“Not only was he most of the time absent from the battle, but he was holding back the efforts of Alan Johnson and the Labour In campaign. I mean they felt undermined, at times they felt actually their efforts were being sabotaged by Jeremy Corbyn and the people around him.”**

Straw, who was executive director of the Britain Stronger in Europe campaign, told the BBC programme: “With just a couple of weeks to go there were far too many people who didn’t know Labour’s position on the referendum.

“And I think that was because of a lack of concerted campaigning by the leadership over many months leading up to that point ... I felt let down, yes.”

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/aug/07/jeremy-corbyn-rules-out-second-referendum-brexit

- **Corbyn sabotaged Labour’s remain campaign. He must resign

[NOTE  - The following is from Phil Wilson (who is he you may well ask - well he was the head honcho and Chair of the Labour MP's vote Remain 'war cabinet'].

Corbyn issued a note to all MPs on 17 September 2015 telling them that Labour would campaign to remain in the European Union. And yet he decided to go on holiday in the middle of the campaign. He did not visit the Labour heartlands of the north-east and instead raised esoteric issues such as Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership which had no resonance on the doorstep.

This leads to me to the greatest betrayal and the final straw for many MPs. I have been told and shown evidence by an overwhelming number of unimpeachably neutral Labour remain staff that Corbyn’s office, for which he must take full responsibility, consistently attempted to weaken and sabotage the Labour remain campaign, in contravention of the party’s official position. For example, they resisted all polling and focus group evidence on message and tone, raised no campaign finance, failed to engage with the campaign delivery and deliberately weakened and damaged the argument Labour sought to make.

Corbyn made only a smattering of campaign appearances, and they were lacklustre in delivery and critical of the EU in tone resulting in Labour voters not knowing the party’s position or hearing our argument. Corbyn’s infrequent campaign appearances and narrow focus, in turned limited the party’s appeal. He kept saying that the economic shock of Brexit was not real. It is. And it is working people and Labour communities that will pay the price. A price that is being felt right now.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/26/corbyn-must-resign-inadequate-leader-betrayal

202Brexit Watch - Page 7 Empty Re: Brexit Watch Sat Sep 25 2021, 22:29

T.R.O.Y.


Andy Walker
Andy Walker
Laughing

203Brexit Watch - Page 7 Empty Re: Brexit Watch Sat Sep 25 2021, 22:51

boltonbonce

boltonbonce
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
As a party member at the time, Sluffy, what JC did or said, was irrelevant. I was always going to make my own choice. How my party saw it was never going to come into it.

204Brexit Watch - Page 7 Empty Re: Brexit Watch Sun Sep 26 2021, 00:00

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
@boltonbonce wrote:As a party member at the time, Sluffy, what JC did or said, was irrelevant. I was always going to make my own choice. How my party saw it was never going to come into it.

People SHOULD make their own choice but in reality many people traditionally vote  for the party they always vote for - except this time there was no message from Labour to tell people what to vote for!

Labour was almost anonymous during campaign - don't take my word for it...

Report finds Labour is almost invisible in EU Referendum coverage

The latest report from Loughborough’s Centre for Research in Communication and Culture finds “Labour’s presence has flatlined in the press and faltered in TV coverage” in the past two weeks of the campaign. Professor James Stanyer described the party as “almost invisible”.

“Labour voices are present in less than 4% of TV coverage and just 8% of print coverage of the referendum, and no Labour politicians are amongst the top 10 most frequently reported individuals,” adds the CRCC.

https://blog.lboro.ac.uk/crcc/eu-referendum/report-finds-labour-almost-invisible-eu-referendum-coverage/


Let's be honest Corbyn wasn't/isn't a Europhile, didn't wish to get behind the Remain campaign, even went off on holiday half way through it ffs!

Seemed to me at the time that the Labour party didn't think people would be vote for Brexit - I spoke to the Labour campaign manager of a Labour held local authority on the day of the referendum who told me the constituency would vote Remain - it voted Brexit by ten percentage points!

Even I knew that the people were going to vote Brexit, I don't think I spoke to any eligible voter leading up to it who said they were voting any other way!

The key to it all was when the Remain campaigners realised that no one could answer what benefits individuals perceived from being in the EU!

Plenty of words from the experts - and they were of course right in what they were saying - but to the Joe and Joan Bloggs of this world, they couldn't relate to how it actually made their individual life better - but they could see daily how immigration was making it a lot worse - demands on housing, schools, the health service all impacting on them and their family's every single day!

I don't think any politician took Brexit to be a reality - even Boris was shocked he won - he only decided to lead the Brexit campaign to get the Eurosceptic MP's votes for a future tilt at the party leadership!  He was simply following Rule 1 - namely do what you have to, to gain power!

Brexit was a disaster that never needed to have happened.

However it clearly seems Corbyn wasn't to fussed about leading a Labour Campaign against it - and there are facts to prove that - it's not me just saying it.

At least Wanderlust went out and cast his vote though...

...for BREXIT!!!

:facepalm:

205Brexit Watch - Page 7 Empty Re: Brexit Watch Sun Sep 26 2021, 01:06

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@Sluffy wrote:

At least Wanderlust went out and cast his vote though...

...for BREXIT!!!

:facepalm:
Wahay! Congratulations on reaching your 100th repetition of this lie.

:party: :rofl:

206Brexit Watch - Page 7 Empty Re: Brexit Watch Sun Sep 26 2021, 01:58

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
@wanderlust wrote:
@Sluffy wrote:

At least Wanderlust went out and cast his vote though...

...for BREXIT!!!

:facepalm:
Wahay! Congratulations on reaching your 100th repetition of this lie.

:party: :rofl:

There's only one person telling lies here and it's not me - I'm not insecure enough to have to do that in real life, let alone on the internet ffs!

Besides, there's more than me on here who KNOW you've lied - and continue to do so... and for what???

That's the thing that get's me.

https://forum.boltonnuts.co.uk/t19412p540-brexit-negotiations#396062

I guess you must think yourself a bit like Shaggy, as I always bring to mind his song when you tell such whoppers - and even in the song his mate tells him he's a mentalist and simply tell the truth!!!

(Not that I wish to be any mate of yours btw!!!)

Enjoy...

207Brexit Watch - Page 7 Empty Re: Brexit Watch Sun Sep 26 2021, 08:41

Natasha Whittam

Natasha Whittam
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@okocha wrote:Even if that were true, too much irredeemable damage would have been done to UK citizens' lives. Look around you at the immediate effects right now, and name one benefit we have had from the folly of Farage and Johnson.....and The Express/Mail/Sun/Telegraph.

Get a grip. Queuing for petrol or the supermarkets not having the type of quinoa you like is hardly irredeemable damage.



208Brexit Watch - Page 7 Empty Re: Brexit Watch Sun Sep 26 2021, 11:42

okocha

okocha
El Hadji Diouf
El Hadji Diouf
@Natasha Whittam wrote:

Get a grip. Queuing for petrol or the supermarkets not having the type of quinoa you like is hardly irredeemable damage.



You're talking about just one issue that Brexit has created.

I'm looking at all the problems it has caused. I'm sure you knew that

209Brexit Watch - Page 7 Empty Re: Brexit Watch Sun Sep 26 2021, 13:27

Natasha Whittam

Natasha Whittam
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@okocha wrote:You're talking about just one issue that Brexit has created.

I'm looking at all the problems it has caused. I'm sure you knew that

I admit I don't get out much these days, but I can honestly say Brexit hasn't changed anything in my life.

I'm genuinely interested how it's made such an impact on your life.

210Brexit Watch - Page 7 Empty Re: Brexit Watch Mon Sep 27 2021, 09:20

Natasha Whittam

Natasha Whittam
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
By your lack of response I'll presume Brexit hasn't really had an impact on your life, just like most people.

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