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Coronavirus - the political argument

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151Coronavirus - the political argument - Page 6 Empty Re: Coronavirus - the political argument on Wed Apr 15 2020, 16:58

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
@boltonbonce wrote:
@Cajunboy wrote:Just zip up your slippers and MAN UP!!!!!
I'm not mentioning my slippers. They're irrelevant. I'll have to come up with a new hobby.

Stop being so mard.

cyclops

152Coronavirus - the political argument - Page 6 Empty Re: Coronavirus - the political argument on Wed Apr 15 2020, 17:16

Natasha Whittam

Natasha Whittam
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@boltonbonce wrote:Three more weeks of lockdown.

In Northern Ireland.

I suspect it will be longer for the rest of the UK.

153Coronavirus - the political argument - Page 6 Empty Re: Coronavirus - the political argument on Wed Apr 15 2020, 19:08

boltonbonce

boltonbonce
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@Sluffy wrote:
@boltonbonce wrote:
@Cajunboy wrote:Just zip up your slippers and MAN UP!!!!!
I'm not mentioning my slippers. They're irrelevant. I'll have to come up with a new hobby.

Stop being so mard.

cyclops
scratch Laughing

154Coronavirus - the political argument - Page 6 Empty Re: Coronavirus - the political argument on Thu Apr 16 2020, 08:58

T.R.O.Y.


Nicolas Anelka
Nicolas Anelka
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-52304918

Almost as if 10 years of cuts to social care and the NHS have had a detrimental effect.

155Coronavirus - the political argument - Page 6 Empty Re: Coronavirus - the political argument on Thu Apr 16 2020, 15:46

gloswhite

gloswhite
Guðni Bergsson
Guðni Bergsson
@T.R.O.Y. wrote:https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-52304918

Almost as if 10 years of cuts to social care and the NHS have had a detrimental effect.
Agree in the main, but there again, which country was really prepared to cope with such an outbreak.

156Coronavirus - the political argument - Page 6 Empty Re: Coronavirus - the political argument on Thu Apr 16 2020, 16:51

T.R.O.Y.


Nicolas Anelka
Nicolas Anelka
Ye very true, but it does seem that we were poorly prepared - this story also poses questions as to the impact of cuts on how prepared we have been for this:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/12/revealed-value-of-uk-pandemic-stockpile-fell-by-40-in-six-years

I certainly think this is going to shape spending for years to come, maybe we'll finally accept that these are the sort of threats we need to be wary of and not a nuclear war. Take the money wasted on Trident and put it into real issues.

157Coronavirus - the political argument - Page 6 Empty Re: Coronavirus - the political argument on Thu Apr 16 2020, 16:57

xmiles

xmiles
Jay Jay Okocha
Jay Jay Okocha
@T.R.O.Y. wrote:Ye very true, but it does seem that we were poorly prepared - this story also poses questions as to the impact of cuts on how prepared we have been for this:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/12/revealed-value-of-uk-pandemic-stockpile-fell-by-40-in-six-years

I certainly think this is going to shape spending for years to come, maybe we'll finally accept that these are the sort of threats we need to be wary of and not a nuclear war. Take the money wasted on Trident and put it into real issues.

Not to mention the money wasted on two totally useless aircraft carriers and HS2.

158Coronavirus - the political argument - Page 6 Empty Re: Coronavirus - the political argument on Thu Apr 16 2020, 21:27

gloswhite

gloswhite
Guðni Bergsson
Guðni Bergsson
I sometimes wonder if we are putting too much emphasis on the scientists and their musings, and missing other non-scientific requirements. I personally would like us all to wear masks. 
Sooner or later we will all be out on the street, in some form or another. As one of the 'vulnerable' ones, I will probably be one of the last ones to be let loose and I'm going to be vary wary of other people, and i would definitely feel reassured with masks.

159Coronavirus - the political argument - Page 6 Empty Re: Coronavirus - the political argument on Fri Apr 17 2020, 08:04

xmiles

xmiles
Jay Jay Okocha
Jay Jay Okocha
The fundamental problem that is overlooked by too many people is that the Tories have consistently underfunded the NHS and we are now living with the consequences.

This article from the BBC sums up the problem. If you can't be bothered to read the whole article this graph makes it clear - even in the unlikely event that Boris delivers on his promised of increased expenditure it will still be below the average. This is what you get when you vote Tory. 

Coronavirus - the political argument - Page 6 _110445807_nhschart


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-50290033

160Coronavirus - the political argument - Page 6 Empty Re: Coronavirus - the political argument on Fri Apr 17 2020, 08:49

Norpig

Norpig
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
If the PM being at deaths door and being rescued by the NHS doesn't make them start to properly fund it then nothing will.
I'm hoping that and the current situation are a wake up call to the Government and they start to realise what an essential service it provides and stop the sneaking privitisation that is still going on.

161Coronavirus - the political argument - Page 6 Empty Re: Coronavirus - the political argument on Fri Apr 17 2020, 09:58

Natasha Whittam

Natasha Whittam
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@gloswhite wrote:I personally would like us all to wear masks. 

And where are the 60+million people in the UK going to source these masks? Considering you're only supposed to wear them once it would need billions and billions of the things - right now you'd do well to find one box in a supermarket.

I am 100% against masks because they give people a false sense of security, and there's not even any proof they do any good - in fact some seem to be claiming the opposite.

162Coronavirus - the political argument - Page 6 Empty Re: Coronavirus - the political argument on Fri Apr 17 2020, 10:15

karlypants

karlypants
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
It depends on what kind of mask you wear and how you use it Nat.

Those one time use masks are shite IMO.

163Coronavirus - the political argument - Page 6 Empty Re: Coronavirus - the political argument on Fri Apr 17 2020, 10:17

boltonbonce

boltonbonce
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@Natasha Whittam wrote:
@gloswhite wrote:I personally would like us all to wear masks. 

And where are the 60+million people in the UK going to source these masks? Considering you're only supposed to wear them once it would need billions and billions of the things - right now you'd do well to find one box in a supermarket.

I am 100% against masks because they give people a false sense of security, and there's not even any proof they do any good - in fact some seem to be claiming the opposite.
I bought two packs 0f ten on amazon yesterday. Should see me through the odd times I'll be venturing out. That's assuming the medical advice is to wear them. If not, they'll come in for use when I'm painting.

164Coronavirus - the political argument - Page 6 Empty Re: Coronavirus - the political argument on Fri Apr 17 2020, 10:26

Natasha Whittam

Natasha Whittam
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
If the UK makes them compulsory they will be out of stock in hours.

Then you have the prospect of people not being able to go out and get the essentials.

165Coronavirus - the political argument - Page 6 Empty Re: Coronavirus - the political argument on Fri Apr 17 2020, 10:28

karlypants

karlypants
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@Natasha Whittam wrote:If the UK makes them compulsory they will be out of stock in hours.

Then you have the prospect of people not being able to go out and get the essentials.


Well proper masks have been out of stock everywhere for quite some time.

The disposable surgical ones are sparce online and not sure if the ones available to buy are fake or not.

166Coronavirus - the political argument - Page 6 Empty Re: Coronavirus - the political argument on Fri Apr 17 2020, 10:30

karlypants

karlypants
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
I've been looking for replacement filters for mine as some silly sally decided to give the fecking mask a rinse under the tap.

I'm now on my spare pack of filters and they won't last that long.

167Coronavirus - the political argument - Page 6 Empty Re: Coronavirus - the political argument on Fri Apr 17 2020, 11:03

gloswhite

gloswhite
Guðni Bergsson
Guðni Bergsson
@Natasha Whittam wrote:
@gloswhite wrote:I personally would like us all to wear masks. 

And where are the 60+million people in the UK going to source these masks? Considering you're only supposed to wear them once it would need billions and billions of the things - right now you'd do well to find one box in a supermarket.

I am 100% against masks because they give people a false sense of security, and there's not even any proof they do any good - in fact some seem to be claiming the opposite.
I'm thinking that any help is better than no help. Also, if we go down that road you can be assured that we will be flooded with information on where, how, and what to expect. If we know how to use them effectively, only the idiots who ignore official advice will suffer.
I can't help think that a lot of the talk against them is because we don't bloody have any ! The official view may well change once we have secured a manufacturer to provide enough.

168Coronavirus - the political argument - Page 6 Empty Re: Coronavirus - the political argument on Fri Apr 17 2020, 11:05

karlypants

karlypants
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@gloswhite wrote:
I can't help think that a lot of the talk against them is because we don't bloody have any ! The official view may well change once we have secured a manufacturer to provide enough.

Spot on there Glos.

169Coronavirus - the political argument - Page 6 Empty Re: Coronavirus - the political argument on Fri Apr 17 2020, 11:11

okocha

okocha
Andy Walker
Andy Walker
@xmiles wrote:The fundamental problem that is overlooked by too many people is that the Tories have consistently underfunded the NHS and we are now living with the consequences.

The image of Tory MPs in the HOC applauding the decision to deny health workers a pay increase will stay with me for ever. 
It makes the plaudits from those same Tories each Thursday (and in the media each day now)  truly sickening. But it's ok because we are giving them all a nice  little green badge saying "CARE".....

Will Boris show his appreciation in deeds, rather than just in words when push comes to shove? We'll see.

It was bewildering that the government turned down the opportunity to take up the EU's offer to share the PPE etc that was available.



Last edited by okocha on Fri Apr 17 2020, 13:01; edited 1 time in total

170Coronavirus - the political argument - Page 6 Empty Re: Coronavirus - the political argument on Fri Apr 17 2020, 11:17

gloswhite

gloswhite
Guðni Bergsson
Guðni Bergsson
It was bewildering that the government turned down the opportunity to take up the EU's offer to share the PPE etc that was available.


I think there was more to this than we were told. By the time the EU came forward with the offer, the UK had already looked into, and sourced, alternatives. However, i agree that if any lives were lost because of political ineptness, then heads should roll.

171Coronavirus - the political argument - Page 6 Empty Re: Coronavirus - the political argument on Fri Apr 17 2020, 11:22

xmiles

xmiles
Jay Jay Okocha
Jay Jay Okocha
@gloswhite wrote:It was bewildering that the government turned down the opportunity to take up the EU's offer to share the PPE etc that was available.


I think there was more to this than we were told. By the time the EU came forward with the offer, the UK had already looked into, and sourced, alternatives. However, i agree that if any lives were lost because of political ineptness, then heads should roll.

I don't think there is any evidence that they had sourced adequate supplies of PPE.

172Coronavirus - the political argument - Page 6 Empty Re: Coronavirus - the political argument on Fri Apr 17 2020, 11:25

xmiles

xmiles
Jay Jay Okocha
Jay Jay Okocha
@gloswhite wrote:
@Natasha Whittam wrote:
@gloswhite wrote:I personally would like us all to wear masks. 

And where are the 60+million people in the UK going to source these masks? Considering you're only supposed to wear them once it would need billions and billions of the things - right now you'd do well to find one box in a supermarket.

I am 100% against masks because they give people a false sense of security, and there's not even any proof they do any good - in fact some seem to be claiming the opposite.
I'm thinking that any help is better than no help. Also, if we go down that road you can be assured that we will be flooded with information on where, how, and what to expect. If we know how to use them effectively, only the idiots who ignore official advice will suffer.
I can't help think that a lot of the talk against them is because we don't bloody have any ! The official view may well change once we have secured a manufacturer to provide enough.

I understand your concerns glos but I am with Nat on this. The evidence is far from clear cut. There are even potential downsides from making masks compulsory and the bottom line is where are they going to come from? We can't even supply key health and care workers with PPE now.

173Coronavirus - the political argument - Page 6 Empty Re: Coronavirus - the political argument on Fri Apr 17 2020, 11:28

xmiles

xmiles
Jay Jay Okocha
Jay Jay Okocha
@Norpig wrote:If the PM being at deaths door and being rescued by the NHS doesn't make them start to properly fund it then nothing will.
I'm hoping that and the current situation are a wake up call to the Government and they start to realise what an essential service it provides and stop the sneaking privitisation that is still going on.

Sadly that is not going to happen Norpig. The Tory party exists only to look after the rich and big business. Nothing will change that.

174Coronavirus - the political argument - Page 6 Empty Re: Coronavirus - the political argument on Fri Apr 17 2020, 11:33

karlypants

karlypants
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
One thing for sure is that Matt Hancock needs to be replaced.

175Coronavirus - the political argument - Page 6 Empty Re: Coronavirus - the political argument on Fri Apr 17 2020, 12:23

okocha

okocha
Andy Walker
Andy Walker
Quite agree about Hancock, KP. The little green badges idea showed him as naive about how it would be received by health workers and the general public. Out of touch with the real world.  

His TV appearances are highly unconvincing. He hides the truth or lies so unconvincingly. He always looks to me as if he is going to cry, even when he tries to put on his most earnest, furrowed-brow expression. Well, I suppose he has good reason to weep at the mounting number of blunders since the start of the pandemic. 
Has anyone got any idea why the Cheltenham Festival was allowed to go ahead when other sports had done the right thing in cancelling their programmes?

176Coronavirus - the political argument - Page 6 Empty Re: Coronavirus - the political argument on Fri Apr 17 2020, 13:02

gloswhite

gloswhite
Guðni Bergsson
Guðni Bergsson
Have to agree Okocha, many people here in Cheltenham couldn't understand why that went ahead,  obviously finances were still at the forefront at the time. Having said that, I have seen articles that actually support the decision, (and not just in the local press).

177Coronavirus - the political argument - Page 6 Empty Re: Coronavirus - the political argument on Fri Apr 17 2020, 13:02

Natasha Whittam

Natasha Whittam
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
I don't remember any of these self proclaimed medical experts speaking up before the lockdown. It's so easy to have a pop from behind a keyboard.

No one had ever experienced anything like this, of course mistakes were going to be made.

178Coronavirus - the political argument - Page 6 Empty Re: Coronavirus - the political argument on Fri Apr 17 2020, 13:03

karlypants

karlypants
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

179Coronavirus - the political argument - Page 6 Empty Re: Coronavirus - the political argument on Fri Apr 17 2020, 13:04

Natasha Whittam

Natasha Whittam
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
:facepalm:

180Coronavirus - the political argument - Page 6 Empty Re: Coronavirus - the political argument on Fri Apr 17 2020, 13:12

gloswhite

gloswhite
Guðni Bergsson
Guðni Bergsson
@Natasha Whittam wrote:I don't remember any of these self proclaimed medical experts speaking up before the lockdown. It's so easy to have a pop from behind a keyboard.

No one had ever experienced anything like this, of course mistakes were going to be made.

Agree Nat, but whats concerning me is that the government is still reacting too slowly. Not sure if its because Boris isn't kicking their arses, but they've had enough of a taste of the problems this virus throws up to be able to give us more information, and hopefully optimism, than it currently is.
Why won't they even admit they are looking at an exit strategy? Maybe they aren't. Everything is too slow.

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