Black Lives Matter

I think he is confusing racial discrimination with personal abuse. They are not the same thing.

Words fail me, someone sprayed the N word on the mural 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-53498087

Zaha has now said he won't take a knee now as it's degrading and lost its meaning.

Meanwhile the George Floyd mural in Manchester has been defaced again and 2 men have been arrested for pissing on it 

Zaha is right. It is a meaningless gesture and completely pointless. It doesn't change anything.

I  agree.

It's like standing in the street and banging pans together for the NHS. Then the fools stand together chatting and passing the virus on, thus creating more work for the NHS.

Utter morons.

xmiles wrote:Zaha is right. It is a meaningless gesture and completely pointless. It doesn't change anything.

Totally agree and have thought the same from the very begining.

What is going to work? The levels of online racist abuse is rising and will more than likely get worse until the social media giants step up and do something.

Norpig wrote:What is going to work? The levels of online racist abuse is rising and will more than likely get worse until the social media giants step up and do something.

That won't change anything.

Just because a rascist is stopped from posting on social media doesn't mean it stops them being racists.

The only way to change is for the world to become better educated and tolerant of others.

Can't see that happening in my lifetime.

Also - and what many don't seem to realise/except, is that racism isn't just in one direction - 'whites' to 'blacks' - racism occurs from 'blacks' to 'whites' as well and in any combination of 'coloured' skin you wish to name.

Babies aren't born rascists - society teaches them to become racist.

Until society changes then nothing will happen and why taking the knee has always been pointless to me.

It's important to keep the issue in the public consciousness, so what effective alternatives are there?

Curb social media? Then we get the freedom of speech lobby sounding off.....Newspapers need to be more responsible. Trump needs to do something to re-align his influence for more civilised non-racist purposes.

Society can and does change, often for the better. Racism is still a problem but I don't think it is as bad as it was. OK I am a white person saying this but if you look at media coverage generally today and compare it with coverage 20 or 30 years ago I think there is a positive difference.

As a minor but still significant example of how attitudes change look at how children are disciplined. When I was at school physical punishment was considered normal and teachers hit, slapped and caned children with the apparent consent of the parents. Now that behaviour would put them in jail.

Not a "minor" example, xm.... (it's about treatment of minors. !) ...Used to be said that children should be seen and not heard, but society has completely changed  so that children rightly have a voice now. 

Slavery has been seen for what it is and eventually black/equal rights will win through. Lots of effort on TV and in the quality press is changing society before our eyes and BAME people are being promoted to positions of responsibility. Look at how the film world represents the the changes in society: make a point of seeing the Oscar-winning Green Book.

okocha wrote:Not a "minor" example, xm.... (it's about treatment of minors. !) ...Used to be said that children should be seen and not heard, but society has completely changed  so that children rightly have a voice now. 

Slavery has been seen for what it is and eventually black/equal rights will win through. Lots of effort on TV and in the quality press is changing society before our eyes and BAME people are being promoted to positions of responsibility. Look at how the film world represents the the changes in society: make a point of seeing the Oscar-winning Green Book.

You are right okocha, it's not a minor change. Another example of how society (albeit not in all countries) has changed for the better is attitudes to homosexuality.

Interesting programme on R4 yesterday talking about how the first theatres in London- the first public entertainment that didn’t involve topping someone- had a fascination of non-Europeans - and that Marlowe and Shakespeare cast them in roles of despots and murderers thereby laying the foundations of racism here.

wanderlust wrote:Interesting programme on R4 yesterday talking about how the first theatres in London- the first public entertainment that didn’t involve topping someone- had a fascination of non-Europeans - and that Marlowe and Shakespeare cast them in roles of despots and murderers thereby laying the foundations of racism here.

Not always....eg:Othello. where the white Iago is the villain and the black man, Othello, is cultured, charming and adored by a beautiful, intelligent, white Desdemona.

okocha wrote:
Not always....eg:Othello. where the white Iago is the villain and the black man, Othello, is cultured, charming and adored by a beautiful, intelligent, white Desdemona.

Read Tamburlaine okocha?

wanderlust wrote:
Read Tamburlaine okocha?

We go to watch plays rather than read them, Lusty, but I do know the story of Tamburlaine.....and Marlowe can't really rival Shakespeare imo.

okocha wrote:
We go to watch plays rather than read them, Lusty, but I do know the story of Tamburlaine.....and Marlowe can't really rival Shakespeare imo.

Hardly rivals. Commonly held theory that the bard honed his skills by watching Marlowe plays. Agree he was better in the long run but it is suggested there was a bit of standing on the shoulders of giants. 
Plenty of evidence that both demonised “the Turk” I.e. Muslims - othello was the exception although even he was accused of  sorcery.

wanderlust wrote:
Hardly rivals. Commonly held theory that the bard honed his skills by watching Marlowe plays. Agree he was better in the long run but it is suggested there was a bit of standing on the shoulders of giants. 
Plenty of evidence that both demonised “the Turk” I.e. Muslims - othello was the exception although even he was accused of  sorcery.

By absolute coincidence, I've just rewatched Oscar-winning Shakespeare in Love. It does back up what you say about the collaboration and friendship between the two playwrights.They learned from each other, it appears.

 Such a cleverly-scripted, witty film with wonderful ensemble acting, deserving all its multiple Oscar wins. Anybody who doubts the acting ability of Gwynneth Paltrow will be disabused of their doubts when they (re)watch. No deep knowledge of Shakespeare required to enjoy the greatest(?) love story ever told, from a highly original angle.