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Bolton Nuts » BWFC » Wandering Minds » Wigan in Administration

Wigan in Administration

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701wigan - Wigan in Administration - Page 36 Empty Re: Wigan in Administration Mon Mar 08 2021, 15:54

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin

boltonbonce wrote:The house of cards HAS to fall. You don't want to look like a pair of TWERPS. Very Happy

Have we agreed on what the definition of a TWERP is, if so I must have missed it?

What I am getting at is that maybe I'm in that category already, maybe the definition is that it is 'someone who thinks differently to others'?

If so isn't the prerequisite of even being a forum poster at some point or other necessitate holding a different position than others (sometimes the majority of others) - if so we can all be classed as TWERPS depending on the view point we hold.

Fwiw I tend to be a far more analytical person than an emotional one - just how I am I guess, so I simply don't follow the crowd without having a little 'think' about things first.

I don't know how to describe it but I sort of like ask myself questions immeadiately, like 'is that true', 'why would that have happened', 'what's caused that', 'why would that have been the outcome and not something different', and a million and one other things too - I guess I'm trying to 'understand' the position rather than 'accept' the position as gospel as stated.

That's why I don't really hold any allegiance to anyone, I'm not biased politically, religiously or morally, I know everyone can be wrong sooner or later, including myself - I simply try by not taking everything as gospel right from the start, to limit my chances of being so.

If people want to believe whatever they want, then that's up to them, I simply like to be on a bit more firmer ground to make my decissions that's all.

702wigan - Wigan in Administration - Page 36 Empty Re: Wigan in Administration Mon Mar 08 2021, 16:03

Ten Bobsworth


Frank Worthington
Frank Worthington

I won't ask which constituency you are in, Sluffy, but you may as well forget it if you have a Labour MP.

There are precious few that will reply if you are not a constituent. Frank Field used to be one of the few but sadly an MP no longer.

703wigan - Wigan in Administration - Page 36 Empty Re: Wigan in Administration Mon Mar 08 2021, 16:15

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin

Ten Bobsworth wrote:Do you think that BWFC might have applied for a Coronavirus loan? Do you think it might have got one and, if so, who do you think has got the most, the owners of BWFC or the owners of tin pot FGR?

Why not ask your MP? No point me asking mine.

Well we've been told that FV furloughed staff so it would make sense that they availed themselves of other government aid as well.

I've not looked into the criteria for awarding the amount of the loans (I guess it related to historical turnover?) so I don't know who did the best between FV and FGR but if they are 'loans' which I understand them to be, they still need to be paid back sooner or later - maybe even a decision was taken NOT to apply for one, or not to apply for the maximum available perhaps???

As for my MP, I've met more than a few in my time and whilst some/many have been fairly genuine people they are tainted with a political bias and all play their political cards accordingly - all to appeal to their constituents in order to stay in power at their next election.

It's all a game, which I've tried (and failed) to explain to others on here.

I liked your quote the other day about the three 'Fred's' and there is more than an element of truth in what you say too!

Such is life I guess!

Onwards and upwards though.

704wigan - Wigan in Administration - Page 36 Empty Re: Wigan in Administration Mon Mar 08 2021, 16:30

boltonbonce

boltonbonce
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

Sluffy wrote:

Have we agreed on what the definition of a TWERP is, if so I must have missed it?

What I am getting at is that maybe I'm in that category already, maybe the definition is that it is 'someone who thinks differently to others'?

If so isn't the prerequisite of even being a forum poster at some point or other necessitate holding a different position than others (sometimes the majority of others) - if so we can all be classed as TWERPS depending on the view point we hold.

Fwiw I tend to be a far more analytical person than an emotional one - just how I am I guess, so I simply don't follow the crowd without having a little 'think' about things first.

I don't know how to describe it but I sort of like ask myself questions immeadiately, like 'is that true', 'why would that have happened', 'what's caused that', 'why would that have been the outcome and not something different', and a million and one other things too - I guess I'm trying to 'understand' the position rather than 'accept' the position as gospel as stated.

That's why I don't really hold any allegiance to anyone, I'm not biased politically, religiously or morally, I know everyone can be wrong sooner or later, including myself - I simply try by not taking everything as gospel right from the start, to limit my chances of being so.

If people want to believe whatever they want, then that's up to them, I simply like to be on a bit more firmer ground to make my decissions that's all.


https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/twerp

705wigan - Wigan in Administration - Page 36 Empty Re: Wigan in Administration Mon Mar 08 2021, 17:03

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin


Thanks, yes I know what 'twerp' means in normal usage but Bob has a habit of using words as an acronym to spell out something else - for instance Those Who Even Rate Politicians, for instance, so as the man who knows his onions once said 'are we all on the same page' as each other?

Very Happy

706wigan - Wigan in Administration - Page 36 Empty Re: Wigan in Administration Mon Mar 08 2021, 17:09

Ten Bobsworth


Frank Worthington
Frank Worthington

Sluffy wrote:

Well we've been told that FV furloughed staff so it would make sense that they availed themselves of other government aid as well.

I've not looked into the criteria for awarding the amount of the loans (I guess it related to historical turnover?) so I don't know who did the best between FV and FGR but if they are 'loans' which I understand them to be, they still need to be paid back sooner or later - maybe even a decision was taken NOT to apply for one, or not to apply for the maximum available perhaps???

As for my MP, I've met more than a few in my time and whilst some/many have been fairly genuine people they are tainted with a political bias and all play their political cards accordingly - all to appeal to their constituents in order to stay in power at their next election.

It's all a game, which I've tried (and failed) to explain to others on here.

I liked your quote the other day about the three 'Fred's' and there is more than an element of truth in what you say too!

Such is life I guess!

Onwards and upwards though.
Last MP I met spent an hour and a half with Lady B and me discussing 'blatant' (his word not mine) financial irregularities involving the chairman and the third wife of our local NHS Trust. 

He said he'd make further enquiries. I never heard from him again but four weeks later the chairman was re-appointed for a further four-year term. I'd been on the case for two years by then.

A year later the chairman was quietly removed from office seemingly on the same day that the Trust had to hand over 154 pages of evidence I'd pursued under the Freedom of Information Act.  But it was only tip o' th' iceberg really.



Last edited by Ten Bobsworth on Tue Mar 09 2021, 07:49; edited 1 time in total

707wigan - Wigan in Administration - Page 36 Empty Re: Wigan in Administration Mon Mar 08 2021, 20:59

boltonbonce

boltonbonce
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

What do you do to relax, Bob?

708wigan - Wigan in Administration - Page 36 Empty Re: Wigan in Administration Mon Mar 08 2021, 22:37

Ten Bobsworth


Frank Worthington
Frank Worthington

boltonbonce wrote:What do you do to relax, Bob?
I know most folks turn a blind eye to charlatans and shysters but, each to their own, it doesn't quite suit me and I do like figuring things out for myself.

And btw the ex-chairman got a lovely write up in the Guardian not long after his removal from office. All complete hogwash, of course. He'd been a charlatan for the whole of his working life but that's another story.

709wigan - Wigan in Administration - Page 36 Empty Re: Wigan in Administration Tue Mar 09 2021, 07:40

Ten Bobsworth


Frank Worthington
Frank Worthington

Sorry Boncey, but I forgot to mention that no case was ever taken by anyone in relation to the 'blatant insider dealing' and no money was ever recovered. But there was a nice big pot of ex-NHS cash for his widow to inherit when he died shortly after his removal from office.

Now where were we? Ah yes I remember Coronavirus Loans, have FV managed to get some? Possibly but not nearly as much as the owner of tin pot FGR, I'd wager.

710wigan - Wigan in Administration - Page 36 Empty Re: Wigan in Administration Tue Mar 09 2021, 14:05

Ten Bobsworth


Frank Worthington
Frank Worthington

Pleased you like the 'three Fred's' quote, Sluffy. It wasn't plagiarised but have you had chance to think a bit more about EDT being paid off? 

I have provided a few clues but I'd rather not spell out what I think has happened. I could be wrong and I do like to avoid being wrong.

711wigan - Wigan in Administration - Page 36 Empty Re: Wigan in Administration Tue Mar 09 2021, 15:43

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin

Ten Bobsworth wrote:Pleased you like the 'three Fred's' quote, Sluffy. It wasn't plagiarised but have you had chance to think a bit more about EDT being paid off? 

I have provided a few clues but I'd rather not spell out what I think has happened. I could be wrong and I do like to avoid being wrong.

Yes, I'd never noticed before that three recent high profile legal cases concerned someone with the (for these days anyway) unusual name of Fred.

As for EDT, I had thought something was unusual when the debt was satisfied in full at the time it was, without much aforethought I just assumed that the debt had longer to run and wouldn't be settled before whatever was the agreed date for settlement.

Clearly, and confirmed by Gartside Jnr, at the ST AGM (accounts still not filed with the relevant authority and video of meeting still not posted up by the ST as promised), that FV had been in negotations with their major creditors to reduce some of their debts.

I can understand such actions and clearly with the unexpected trading position forced on firms due to Covid, this clearly became a more pressing issue to FV - particularly if one of their shareholders (Thomas) wanted out (maybe even Sharron wanted to raise cash on some of her holding too?).

Seems clear to me that FV (the company) found some funds to buy shares from Thomas and Sharron and pay additional wages for new players signed in the January window.

My guess - and it is only a guess - is that EDT waived some/all of their debt, in order for the share buy back and player wage increase to happen - and the funding for that was either drawn down from the £20m credit provision from Sharron or Luckock or from receipts from the government Covid loans to businesses.

As I've compiled this 'guess' from some/all of the 'snippets' you have thrown into conversations from around the time of the EDT settlement, I wouldn't wish you to see it as 'me' confirming what you think has happened - I am in effect only mirroring your thoughts back to you (provided I've read them correctly in the first place) but it does seem to make sense to some of the things we know that have happened - share buy backs, new player wages, reduced income from gate receipts due to Covid, Covid government business grants availability - and seems entirely feasable to what might well have actually happened.

But the truth is I don't really know and won't until the accounts are published and give us some harder facts to go on.

I'm certainly not in your league as to seeing the picture as you are based on a number of seemingly random and unconnected events, which you cleverly are able to connect into a compelling narative based on your extensive financial knowledge and professionalism over the years having giving you the 'nose' to do so.

712wigan - Wigan in Administration - Page 36 Empty Re: Wigan in Administration Wed Mar 10 2021, 08:10

Ten Bobsworth


Frank Worthington
Frank Worthington

The reality as you know, Sluffy, is that finance is crucial to achieving anything yet there's been no real financial intelligence on BWFC in the media in the past and there's none at present.

There's been precious little on social media too. There are two regular contributors on WW who are accountants yet I have never noticed any financial insight emanating from either of them.

I cannot see that EDT would have written off the debt having had such a long scrap to try get at least something back for Eddie's widow out of the nearly £200m Eddie spent on BWFC, so I think money has come in to allow a compromise  payment to settle the £5m deferred payment and allow the other things to happen. e.g. Significant team strengthening and share capital reduction

The full extent to which BWFC has saved on costs through the pandemic is unknown but it will be substantial and, with furlough grants and availability of coronavirus loans, FV might be in a stronger position than it would have been without the pandemic. 

The ease with which Dale Vince seems to have snaffled a £15m coronavirus loan with the expectation of another £25m tells me that these loans can be obtained without too many hard questions being asked. It certainly seems to be the case with Ecotricity and FGR  but with a history of consistent debt growth and loss-making how will they ever repay the debt? Cousin Vinny says he's got nowt. I'd believe him as much as I'd believe Megan Markle but I suspect the plan is to carry on blagging.

P.S. Sorry I forgot to include Fred the Shred. Any advance on four Freds.

713wigan - Wigan in Administration - Page 36 Empty Re: Wigan in Administration Fri Mar 12 2021, 10:29

Ten Bobsworth


Frank Worthington
Frank Worthington

Having looked at the relevant criteria, Sluffy, it seems that the amounts available to FV from the coronavirus loan scheme would be limited to £5m. Enough to settle EDT with a bit to spare if a reduced settlement were agreed.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/apply-for-the-coronavirus-business-interruption-loan-scheme.

Ecotricity has plainly gone for the 'big bucks' version. How its managed to satisfy the lending criteria given its trading record is another matter though.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/apply-for-the-coronavirus-large-business-interruption-loan-scheme

714wigan - Wigan in Administration - Page 36 Empty Re: Wigan in Administration Mon Mar 15 2021, 21:55

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin

Wigan Athletic: Abdulrahman Al-Jasmi has takeover of League One club agreed

Financially troubled League One club Wigan Athletic have agreed a takeover with a consortium led by Bahrain businessman Abdulrahman Al-Jasmi.

The move comes after months of uncertainty at the club, which has been in administration since July 2020.

The Latics' financial problems went on to lead to their relegation from the Championship last season.

The takeover, which remains dependent on English Football League approval, is hoped to be completed by 31 March.

Talal Al-Hammad, who is set to come in as chairman, says the incoming owners want to "restore pride and belief" at the club.

Wigan's prospective sale to Phoenix 2021 Limited, owned by Al-Jasmi, comes after a deal with a Spanish consortium fell through at the start of January, after it was initially blocked by the EFL.

Pressure had increased on the need for a potential deal to be completed as EFL rules prevent clubs from starting successive seasons in administration.

A total of 11 parties were reported to be interested in a takeover prior to Al-Jasmi's bid, leading to Monday's deal.

Wigan, who are 21st in League One as they look to avoid a second straight relegation, are still without a permanent manager after John Sheridan left to join Swindon Town in November.

Earlier this season, fans raised more than £650,000 to try to protect the club's future as a takeover saga continued.

Al-Hammad, speaking on behalf of the club's board, said the Al-Jasmi-led group are "excited" about the future but are aware they "will have to earn" the trust of supporters "through actions rather than words".

"To Latics fans everywhere, we can only guess at the amount of hurt and distress you have felt since the club entered administration and it is now our focus to stabilise its future and to illustrate why we believe we are the best ownership group for the club," he said in a statement.

The club's joint administrators said in a statement they are in the "process of finalising the transaction", with contracts exchanged and a deposit received.

"The sale allows for non-football creditors to be paid a minimum dividend of 25p in the pound which avoids a 15-point penalty deduction for the club which improves the prospect of remaining in League One this season," they added.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/56403096

715wigan - Wigan in Administration - Page 36 Empty Re: Wigan in Administration Mon Mar 15 2021, 21:57

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin

716wigan - Wigan in Administration - Page 36 Empty Re: Wigan in Administration Tue Mar 30 2021, 21:37

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin




This is the owner -


This is I believe the owners son (son-in-law?) who it seems he bought Wigan to play with(?).


Well whatever the reason it looks as though they've got very, very lucky!

(Mind you it looked that way when the Honk Kong bloke bought them too!)



Last edited by Sluffy on Tue Mar 30 2021, 22:31; edited 1 time in total

717wigan - Wigan in Administration - Page 36 Empty Re: Wigan in Administration Tue Mar 30 2021, 21:58

Boggersbelief

Boggersbelief
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

In footballing terms these men are paupers

718wigan - Wigan in Administration - Page 36 Empty Re: Wigan in Administration Wed Mar 31 2021, 00:56

Hip Priest

Hip Priest
Andy Walker
Andy Walker

Hope you're right Boggers.

719wigan - Wigan in Administration - Page 36 Empty Re: Wigan in Administration Wed Jul 07 2021, 13:53

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin

Thought I'd bump this thread seeing that the new owners of Wigan look as though they are spending 'huge' money to get promoted.

Not me saying that but the Chief Executive of Portsmouth, no less!

Portsmouth CEO pinpoints Sunderland, Ipswich and Wigan spending 'huge money' in bid for League One promotion

https://www.portsmouth.co.uk/sport/football/portsmouth-fc/portsmouth-ceo-pinpoints-sunderland-ipswich-and-wigan-spending-huge-money-in-bid-for-league-one-promotion-3296219

Well I guess just to underline that point, today Wigan have signed Charlie Wyke on a free but with wages of £10k per week for three years.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/57733557

Could be big rivals for us next season I guess?

Wonder if they've invested big in 'intellectual property' like we have...

720wigan - Wigan in Administration - Page 36 Empty Re: Wigan in Administration Wed Jul 07 2021, 16:17

MartinBWFC

MartinBWFC
Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo

It can only end in tears for them.

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