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Wigan in Administration

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91Wigan in Administration - Page 4 Empty Re: Wigan in Administration on Sun Aug 02 2020, 19:23

wessy

wessy
El Hadji Diouf
El Hadji Diouf
I ger confused with this ? (not hard) We sold Euxton to Huron Properties owned by Dave Whelan, he then sold Huron Properties. So does that mean that Wigan Athletic do not own our old training ground but are just tennants. Or could DW have sold Huron but not the training ground? Any ideas Sluffy ? And if Dave Whelan bought it was it ever owned by the football club. or is it owned by the Whelan family?

92Wigan in Administration - Page 4 Empty Re: Wigan in Administration on Sun Aug 02 2020, 20:59

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
@wessy wrote:I get confused with this ? (not hard) We sold Euxton to Huron Properties owned by Dave Whelan, he then sold Huron Properties. So does that mean that Wigan Athletic do not own our old training ground but are just tennants. Or could DW have sold Huron but not the training ground? Any ideas Sluffy ? And if Dave Whelan bought it was it ever owned by the football club. or is it owned by the Whelan family?

Don't worry mate these things can be highly complexed at times!

I'll simplify it the best I can.

Lets start of with an analogy to make it a bit easier to understand, imagine you work in a big company and you want to find your way around, you will find it easier if parts of it are split into different things such as sales, purchases, accounts, Human Resources, finance, etc.

The same things can happen in how various companies are linked together, for example BWFC stands as a company in its own right, as does the hotel (Bolton Whites), both of these in turn come under the control of Burnden Leisure, which itself comes under the ownership of FV.

So if you ask the question who owns BWFC, it is ultimately owned by FV.

However FV could sell off the Club to say Bolton Nuts Ltd owned by Natasha and I but still own the hotel and the stadium (depending if wasn't part of the sale) and all the land around it.

FV if they wanted could buy back Euxton, transfer its ownership to BWFC and include it in the sale of BWFC to Bolton Nuts!

Basically this is what happened at Wigan.

Whelan did own Huron (he's sold it on since) bought Euxton from Burnden Leisure then included in the sale of the club, the stadium and the holding/property company to the Chinese company that bought them - IEC -

"The Whelan family is understood to have agreed a deal in principle to sell their majority stake in League One champions Wigan Athletic to a Hong Kong-based consortium.

The proposed takeover by International Entertainment Corporation is subject to Hong Kong Stock Exchange and EFL approval.

The deal with IEC would also include a majority shareholding in the DW Stadium, as well as the club's training grounds at Christopher Park and Euxton".

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/44040868

"As far as I'm aware the new company that bought Wigan also had included in the sale everything else including Euxton -

The takeover of Wigan Athletic has been completed by Next Leader Fund, a limited partnership headed by Hong Kong businessman Au Yeung Wai Kay".

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/44040868

Which if is the case as I believe to be means that it is now in the control of the Administrators who can sell it if they deem it to be in the best interests of the creditors the club is owing money too.

As I say it isn't easy to follow all that goes on at corporate level but in a nutshell Whelan bought Euxton with one of his companies and 'sold' it to another of his companies which was later bought by IEC owned by Dr Stanley Choi (pictured below) who in turn set

Wigan in Administration - Page 4 0bd22670-aa78-11e9-9b3a-71b8eee08629

https://wiganathletic.com/news/2018/november/find-out-more-about-the-new-owners-of-wigan-athletic-football-club-international-entertainment-corporation/

up another company with Au Yeung Wai Kay called Next Leader Fund, with Au Yeung taking overall control some weeks later and on the same day put Wigan into Administration -

The only public comment Au Yeung has made since taking the club into administration is a five-paragraph statement sent to the Wigan Observer on 7 July. -

All sorts of theories have been posited as to why the owner took the decision he did, but he says the financial impact of the Covid-19 outbreak was to blame.

"We bought Wigan Athletic with the best intentions: to create a team that would get the club back into the Premier League, and I have invested more than £40million (to buy it and repay a loan to former owners the International Entertainment Corporation).

"Unfortunately, the Covid-19 crisis has severely impacted people and businesses around the world - and Championship football clubs, which rely on fans coming through the turnstiles, are no exception.

"This has fundamentally undermined our ability to fund Wigan Athletic and, after struggling to find a solution, in the end took the difficult decision to put the club into administration to ensure its survival.

"The administrators are now doing everything they can to find a new owner who will secure the future of Wigan Athletic for the sake of the many thousands of devoted Latics fans, and the local community."

"Wigan Athletic is a wonderful football club with rich history and a passionate fanbase," Au Yeung said, in a statement exclusively released to Wigan Today.
https://www.wigantoday.net/sport/football/exclusive-wigan-athletic-owner-au-yeung-wai-kay-defends-difficult-administration-decision-2906602

Au Yeung spoke to the Administrators just before the points appeal hearing though -

"The Hong Kong-based businessman put the club into administration on 1 July, weeks after buying them, but has given little public explanation as to why.

However, he responded to administrator Gerald Krasner's request for a 'virtual meeting', lasting more than an hour.

The details of that discussion remain confidential.

But BBC Sport understands it answered many of the questions around the reasons for the Latics' plight and the information was used as part of Friday's appeal against the club's 12-point deduction".

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/53616070


So I hope that fully answers your question!

Very Happy

93Wigan in Administration - Page 4 Empty Re: Wigan in Administration on Mon Aug 03 2020, 10:31

wessy

wessy
El Hadji Diouf
El Hadji Diouf
It Certainly does, Thank you.  Going to be an interesting few weeks, It seems Euxton is either a pot of gold that keeps on giving to failed football clubs or a poisened chalice so look out PNE, however they seem to be well run.

Guessing the time frame for Wigan is very tight, with a date allready set for a restart on the 12th of September, it follows that the fixtures will have to come out ASAP and the EFL will want assurances that Wigan are able to complete next season IF they have any chance of survival.

94Wigan in Administration - Page 4 Empty Re: Wigan in Administration on Mon Aug 03 2020, 10:57

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
@wessy wrote:It Certainly does, Thank you.  Going to be an interesting few weeks, It seems Euxton is either a pot of gold that keeps on giving to failed football clubs or a poisened chalice so look out PNE, however they seem to be well run.

Guessing the time frame for Wigan is very tight, with a date already set for a restart on the 12th of September, it follows that the fixtures will have to come out ASAP and the EFL will want assurances that Wigan are able to complete next season IF they have any chance of survival.

You're welcome!

Absolutely correct about the EFL wanting assurances, that's why part of their tests for owners approval to buy the club is proof of funds to cover trading losses for the next two years and Wigan has not even got to the point of a potential purchaser even having a look yet and doing 'due diligence' before they commit to buy!

I can't see them allowing another 'Bolton' by starting the season in Administration with an uncertainty about the sale being completed so unless somebody commits in the next week or so, who has access to (in theory) £10m advertised purchase of club, plus £6m in accrued wages and now outstanding instalments of payments of transfer fees to other clubs, plus (let's say) £15m to run the club at loss for the next two years (it was £25m just a month or so ago when the current owner bought it - but players out of contract and the Admins cost cuttings should have brought that amount down).

So that's £31m and doesn't even take into account this mysterious loan of (iirc?) £24m that the new owner did or did not put in.

I simply can't see a happy outcome for them.

They are in Bassini type territory!

95Wigan in Administration - Page 4 Empty Re: Wigan in Administration on Mon Aug 03 2020, 12:37

BoltonTillIDie

BoltonTillIDie
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
DW sPorts also In administration

96Wigan in Administration - Page 4 Empty Re: Wigan in Administration on Mon Aug 03 2020, 13:02

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
@BoltonTillIDie wrote:DW Sports also In administration

As far as I can tell it isn't Dave Whelan's anymore he seems to have sold it to his son in law David Sharpe's company Maddox Holdings.

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/12005947

However the share owners of that company seem to include Whelan family members including his wife Patricia but not Dave himself.


Can't imagine though that Whelan will want to be Wigan Athletics white knight and rescue them at this moment in time!

97Wigan in Administration - Page 4 Empty Re: Wigan in Administration on Mon Aug 03 2020, 13:22

Norpig

Norpig
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Dave Whelan once broke his leg did you know? I think he may have mentioned it once or twice.....

98Wigan in Administration - Page 4 Empty Re: Wigan in Administration on Mon Aug 03 2020, 19:37

wessy

wessy
El Hadji Diouf
El Hadji Diouf
Stark figures laid out Sluffy does look bleak at this point, tomorrow the appeal result (4pm) may shed light on what they are actually selling (championship or Div 1) but so much more to worry about.

99Wigan in Administration - Page 4 Empty Re: Wigan in Administration on Tue Aug 04 2020, 17:18

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin

Thought they would!



100Wigan in Administration - Page 4 Empty Re: Wigan in Administration on Tue Aug 04 2020, 17:50

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
Nixon's article -

Wigan Athletic fail in appeal against 12-point deduction as relegation to League One is confirmed

WIGAN ATHLETIC'S hope of a relegation reprieve was shattered by an EFL appeals panel that confirmed a 12-point penalty.

Latics administrators lost out at the end of a season of pain and the decision to enforce the punishment means they go down to League One.

The appeal, costing an estimated £480,000 at the hard-up outfit, fell on deaf ears - with Barnsley left celebrating their survival.

Three top judges were called in for one of the most delicate decisions the EFL faced and they went through the arguments put forward by Wigan’s side.

So the decision of Hong Kong owners Au Yeung and Stanley Choi to pull the plug at the start of July has sent their old club down.

And while the recriminations and investigations into their behaviour go on, Wigan are now left facing a bleak few weeks as they fight for their future.

Wigan said: "The club put forward a strong case and naturally we are disappointed at the decision. The first-team management will now prepare the team for next season's League One campaign."

The cost of relegation is painful for Latics who miss out on the TV money at Championship level and will have to rebuild with a lesser hand-out.

That payment drops from around £6.2 million to an estimated £775,000 in League One and leaves their next owners with little help.

Left back Antonee Robinson can now leave for a bargain £1.5 million because of a clause in his deal when he signed from Everton.

The United States international, who was set to sign for AC Milan in a move worth £6 million and rising in January, could go for a fraction of that fee.

Midfielder Joe Williams, who has now suffered three relegations in a row, also has a fixed price in his deal - of around £2.5 million.

Deals for target man Kieffer Moore and young striker Joe Gelhardt will have to be hurried along to help the cash flow.

Bizarrely Moore’s imminent £2 million exit will pay for HIMSELF as former club Barnsley are due an instalment of around £1.5 million for selling him a year ago.

The EFL will take the cash from sales and distribute them to Wigan’s football creditors, leaving the change for the unpaid salaries and wage deferral schemes.

The players left in the squad will also now face massive cuts in their salaries, around 40 to 50 per cent.

That will save a large amount from the payroll next season, but it is a savage blow for the squad who thought they had beaten the drop.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/12311688/wigan-athletic-fail-appeal-point-deduction-relegation/?utm_medium=Social&utm_campaign=sunfootballtwitter&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1596559106

101Wigan in Administration - Page 4 Empty Re: Wigan in Administration on Tue Aug 04 2020, 18:20

wessy

wessy
El Hadji Diouf
El Hadji Diouf
Touch and go now for the Latics

102Wigan in Administration - Page 4 Empty Re: Wigan in Administration on Tue Aug 04 2020, 19:59

Whitesince63


Nicolas Anelka
Nicolas Anelka
Too true wessy, there is no FV in the wings that we know of and unless someone out there is prepared to throw a shed load of money at a club whose best players have all departed, you could fear another Bury coming. You just have to feel so sorry for the fans because just a few weeks ago everything looked so rosy. Let’s hope there’s nothing lurking from the Chinese end that could possibly come out and scupper any plans. I fear a few weeks of worry for our Wigan friends.

103Wigan in Administration - Page 4 Empty Re: Wigan in Administration on Thu Aug 06 2020, 03:42

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin





104Wigan in Administration - Page 4 Empty Re: Wigan in Administration on Thu Aug 06 2020, 10:12

wessy

wessy
El Hadji Diouf
El Hadji Diouf
@Whitesince63 wrote:Too true wessy, there is no FV in the wings that we know of and unless someone out there is prepared to throw a shed load of money at a club whose best players have all departed, you could fear another Bury coming. You just have to feel so sorry for the fans because just a few weeks ago everything looked so rosy. Let’s hope there’s nothing lurking from the Chinese end that could possibly come out and scupper any plans. I fear a few weeks of worry for our Wigan friends.
That seems to be the biggest problem Whites, we had FV who seemed determined, didn't they put money in before our takeover (1m) or am i dreaming, the fact they have no prefered bidder and its only weeks to the new season puts them in a very bad situation, at best i see a desperate scramble by a local consortium involving the Rugby owners? they have a vested interest with sharing facilities.

105Wigan in Administration - Page 4 Empty Re: Wigan in Administration on Thu Aug 06 2020, 10:55

Norpig

Norpig
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Lets be honest Wigan isn't a football town, they get rubbish crowds even when they were in the Premiership. No great loss if they go for me, i don't have the same sympathy i had for Bury fans.

106Wigan in Administration - Page 4 Empty Re: Wigan in Administration on Thu Aug 06 2020, 11:07

Natasha Whittam

Natasha Whittam
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@Norpig wrote:Lets be honest Wigan isn't a football town, they get rubbish crowds even when they were in the Premiership. No great loss if they go for me, i don't have the same sympathy i had for Bury fans.

So a club should be judged on how many fans they have?

Listen to Mr Man City!

107Wigan in Administration - Page 4 Empty Re: Wigan in Administration on Thu Aug 06 2020, 11:11

Norpig

Norpig
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@Natasha Whittam wrote:

So a club should be judged on how many fans they have?

Listen to Mr Man City!
Shut it Miss Chorley  Very Happy

I don't support City, i have been to a few games but only to take my Son who is a fan. Wigan are a nothing team with no fans and if they went bust i wouldn't care at all.

108Wigan in Administration - Page 4 Empty Re: Wigan in Administration on Thu Aug 06 2020, 11:16

karlypants

karlypants
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@Norpig wrote:
I don't support City, i have been to a few games but only to take my Son who is a fan.

About time you started bringing him up properly then.

There are no excuses! Very Happy

109Wigan in Administration - Page 4 Empty Re: Wigan in Administration on Thu Aug 06 2020, 11:27

Norpig

Norpig
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
I've tried KP, i still buy him a season ticket in the hope he'll come to some games but he hasn't been for a couple of years now. 

What chance do i have when City are mega rich and always seem to score 6 whenever we go? He is a Manc after all and the whole you have to support your Dads team doesn't wash with him  Very Happy

110Wigan in Administration - Page 4 Empty Re: Wigan in Administration on Thu Aug 06 2020, 12:26

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
@wessy wrote:
@Whitesince63 wrote:Too true wessy, there is no FV in the wings that we know of and unless someone out there is prepared to throw a shed load of money at a club whose best players have all departed, you could fear another Bury coming. You just have to feel so sorry for the fans because just a few weeks ago everything looked so rosy. Let’s hope there’s nothing lurking from the Chinese end that could possibly come out and scupper any plans. I fear a few weeks of worry for our Wigan friends.
That seems to be the biggest problem Whites, we had FV who seemed determined, didn't they put money in before our takeover (1m) or am i dreaming, the fact they have no prefered bidder and its only weeks to the new season puts them in a very bad situation, at best i see a desperate scramble by a local consortium involving the Rugby owners? they have a vested interest with sharing facilities.

Yes they did, it was non-refundable too and the sale was certainly not a cast iron guarantee to happen at the time because that was pre all the buggering around with Bassini.

I've listened to the whole Administrators interview and to my mind (maybe because I was listening out for it/ maybe I read too much into it - I'll let others decide) was around the 28 minute mark for a question or two, where he basically said Administration is basically a 'holding' role to sell the club and with what they, their timescale/resources to do that was within the next two weeks!

That bit is certainly worth a listen, the rest of it is interesting to the likes of me but I would recommend spending 45 minutes of your life otherwise.

Fwiw contrast how well the young interviewer has done managing to get interviews and information with the Administrator (during Administration) and Maguire (an expert used by TV on football financial matters) and compare that to Iles during a very comparable time with us.

One of them is doing a professional paid job, specifically to communicate on a specific football club, nothing else, the other is a concerned fan doing it in his own time and for free!

If you didn't know any differently who would you think was the paid career professional supposedly embedded with the club and which the clueless know nothing concerned fan doing it for free in his spare time?


111Wigan in Administration - Page 4 Empty Re: Wigan in Administration on Thu Aug 06 2020, 13:24

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Will Wigan start next season in L1 with a transfer embargo?

112Wigan in Administration - Page 4 Empty Re: Wigan in Administration on Thu Aug 06 2020, 14:07

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
@wanderlust wrote:Will Wigan start next season in L1 with a transfer embargo?

I'm not sure they'll even start the season unless they find a buyer in the next two to three weeks AND the buyer passes the EFL's owner criteria - ie money to fund the club for the next two years (and whilst for a time having no match day income!) but if they do, then yes they will be under a transfer embargo as we were/currently are - plus of course the introduction of a player salary cap (thought to be £2.5 for the third tier).

On the other hand many clubs are in the same position so they will release players at the end of their contracts and U23's, so there will be a loan of out of contract players chasing fewer jobs available plus the PL clubs loaning their youngsters out, possibly even cover their wages in full whilst out on loan as well.

I don't think Wigan will have a problem finding players but they are lumbered with the wages of those players still contracted to them who may not have clauses in their contracts for wage drops if relegated.

Wigan will have to get the big wages off their books - like we did with Amos for example - but who will want them with them all being in the same boat of having no match day income? Amos for instance and iirc went on loan to Charlton and Millwall - I can't imagine those types of clubs would want to take Wigan's big wages on with having no matchday income themselves.

I think Wigan football club really are looking down the barrel and could soon be following Bury out of the league, unless a white knight doesn't turn up soon for them.



Fwiw I've now listened to the Maguire video above - not worth bothering about imo.

113Wigan in Administration - Page 4 Empty Re: Wigan in Administration on Thu Aug 06 2020, 15:27

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Agree survival is their first objective but I'm curious as to whether they have a transfer ban. They have already had the points deduction so their situation is slightly different from ours when it comes to rebuilding and attracting players on the cheap - and if they survive they are less likely to drop again next season than we were - which may affect buyer interest.

114Wigan in Administration - Page 4 Empty Re: Wigan in Administration on Thu Aug 06 2020, 15:34

Norpig

Norpig
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
I thought a transfer embargo was part of the punishment for going into administration?

115Wigan in Administration - Page 4 Empty Re: Wigan in Administration on Thu Aug 06 2020, 15:42

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
@Norpig wrote:I thought a transfer embargo was part of the punishment for going into administration?

It is.

What I'm saying is that they may not last long enough to start next season to even  be in existence to be under an embargo!

As for having money to buy players - well that's just laughable, even if they were allowed to, in the financial position they are in right now.



Last edited by Sluffy on Thu Aug 06 2020, 15:46; edited 1 time in total

116Wigan in Administration - Page 4 Empty Re: Wigan in Administration on Thu Aug 06 2020, 15:45

Norpig

Norpig
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
As i said before no great loss if they go. Never liked them and they've always been a tinpot club. The gloating over our predicament in the last few years hasn't helped either.

117Wigan in Administration - Page 4 Empty Re: Wigan in Administration on Thu Aug 06 2020, 16:05

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
We were practically down and out when FV rode in on their white horse so it's not impossible that the same might happen for Wigan.
FWIW I wouldn't miss them either if it didn't.

118Wigan in Administration - Page 4 Empty Re: Wigan in Administration on Thu Aug 06 2020, 16:27

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
@wanderlust wrote:We were practically down and out when FV rode in on their white horse so it's not impossible that the same might happen for Wigan.
FWIW I wouldn't miss them either if it didn't.

Vastly different financial circumstances - we'd cleared out all the high wage earners for a start!

Also we were not looking for a buyer in the middle of a world pandemic and games being played in empty stadiums with no match day income!

Yes, the same might happen for Wigan but with two weeks or so to go according to the Administrator himself, they haven't even got a preferred bidder yet, let alone the potential purchaser even having a look at the books before they buy, so I reckon the odds are stacked against them.

Fwiw Droylsden's pulled out of football because they have no money to sustain themselves due to what's been happening.

http://droylsdenfootballclub.com/news/club-statement-droylsden-football-club-to-resign-from-the-league-and-all-cup-competitions/

119Wigan in Administration - Page 4 Empty Re: Wigan in Administration on Fri Aug 07 2020, 23:38

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
Perhaps I shouldn't be saying this but I've been following the Wigan saga through the eyes of the fans of it's only football forum(?), or at least the only one I could find, 'Latic's Speyk' and it's absolutely incredibly how naive they are about things.

I guess I shouldn't be as there's plenty BWFC fan's who don't have much of a clue about what's going on at BWFC Ltd but I've just be reading their thread about the wage cap and their view seems to be almost unanimously as to how bad an idea that was!

Now bearing in mind they are presently in a crisis where there is no money coming into the club, the Administrators are in and desperately trying to sell it in the middle of a pandemic with games having to play behind closed doors so no matchday income, with the club carrying a crippling wage bill to carry into next season and not even got to the stage of having a preferred bidder being identified, that you would think that if they did survive they'd want their club to be run sustainably to avoid a reoccurrence of the nightmare they are in happing further down the line?

Nope not a bit of it!

You'd think that with the vast bulk of the clubs themselves voting for the wage cap...



...that they must have done so for a very good reason?

Wrong again, views like 'turkey's voting for Christmas' abound.

Don't people realise that football is a business and that business run on getting in more money than they spend.

Maybe they've been spoiled like we were with benefactors such as Eddie Davies and Dave Whelan but if you don't have someone to put in millions of their own personal money then you have to cut your suit according to your cloth.

Unfortunately unless they are exceptionally lucky I think a massive wake up shock is in store for many of them.

https://forums.vitalfootball.co.uk/threads/l1-wage-cap-vote.107072/

120Wigan in Administration - Page 4 Empty Re: Wigan in Administration on Sat Aug 08 2020, 00:47

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Just to respond to your last two posts. ...

Broadly I agree.

There are plenty of BWFC fans who don't really get the link between business and football or understand the reality of administration so it's no  surprise that there are Wigan fans who don't get it either. I'm guessing that those who don't think a salary cap is a good idea are those who reckon they should buy their way out of trouble despite there being no money.  Grasping the full impact of where they are at won't happen overnight.

I fully expect that Wigan will go through something similar to what we experienced - assets and players being sold to pay off debt, being left with a handful of kids for a squad - you know the script. It's just that it will take the Wiganers time to fully come to terms with the reality of their situation.

Our circumstances weren't "vastly different" from Wigan's - it's just that we were at a different stage when FV bought us than Wigan currently are - although Wigan have already served their 12 point penalty. Perhaps when Wigan have been stripped to the bones someone will step in and save them?

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