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Coronavirus - will we survive?

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331Coronavirus - will we survive? - Page 12 Empty Re: Coronavirus - will we survive? on Sat Sep 05 2020, 12:26

Norpig

Norpig
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
So many people on my facebook pages bragging they won't wear a mask, it's no wonder Bolton is top of the table  Rolling Eyes

What these morons don't seem to be able to grasp is that yes it may not affect therm if they get it but they could pass it on to their parents of grandparents who may have underlying issues which will only get worse if they catch it.

332Coronavirus - will we survive? - Page 12 Empty Re: Coronavirus - will we survive? on Sat Sep 05 2020, 13:49

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
I last visited Sesimbra 16 years ago when it was still a beautiful little fishing village with just one very nice 50s/early 60s designer hotel. Not now. Last night half of Lisbon descended on it for the weekend and today the beaches and restaurants are rammed. 
I was bricking it thinking about the knobheads who have descended on the Norfolk beaches.

But it’s different here - you can actually swing a dead cat.
It’s almost is if everyone brought their own tape measures and have actually socially distanced in a sensible fashion. Everyone wears a mask indoors including kids and nobody disrespects anyone and the alcogel is flowing like lube at a Tory convention.
I knew we’d be alright when I saw the cleaner in our hotel room changing the cling film on the TV remote 😀

333Coronavirus - will we survive? - Page 12 Empty Re: Coronavirus - will we survive? on Sat Sep 05 2020, 20:39

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
Another 27 cases for Bolton taken them to what I think is their peak of 105.5 per 100,000k averaged over the last seven days.

Tomorrow 68 cases drop out and I'd be disappointed if we get 69 or more new ones tomorrow to replace them - but you never know!

Coronavirus - will we survive? - Page 12 EhKmpn3WkAA1TVF?format=png&name=900x900

Tougher measures are being introduced in Bolton in an effort to stop coronavirus cases rising and prevent a full local lockdown.

The infection rate in the area has risen to 99 cases per 100,000 people per week - the highest in England.

Those aged between 18 and 49 account for more than 90% of cases.

Announcing new and immediate measures affecting transport and social mixing, council bosses pleaded for "everyone in Bolton to play their part".

Residents have been asked to only use public transport for essential purposes, which means travel to education, work, and essential matters such as hospital appointments.

People have also been told not to mix with other households in any setting indoors or outdoors anywhere, except in their support bubble.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-54042400

334Coronavirus - will we survive? - Page 12 Empty Re: Coronavirus - will we survive? on Sun Sep 06 2020, 00:21

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Why do you have to wear a face mask to enter a restaurant that it full of people who are not wearing a face mask?

335Coronavirus - will we survive? - Page 12 Empty Re: Coronavirus - will we survive? on Sun Sep 06 2020, 00:50

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
@wanderlust wrote:Why do you have to wear a face mask to enter a restaurant that it full of people who are not wearing a face mask?

Because YOU may be infected and pass it on to them.

Don't you get it yet?

The face mask is to help save OTHERS not help save you.

Fwiw I've seen one expert has describing it as an 80/20 thing in that they reckon it gives a 80% chance of preventing an infected person (who may well not even know they are contagious) passing it on and acts as a 20% effective barrier of stopping the wear being infected (because the mask contains much of the droplets in your breath - but it isn't air tight in itself (unless you have the proper stuff) and can allow the very fine 'vapour' to get through to your nose if you are unlucky enough to be around someone infected at the time.

In theory restaurants are practising social distancing inside their establishments and as such you shouldn't be able to be infected and why you have no requirement to wear a mask at your table.

Of course theory and practice is not always the same thing.

336Coronavirus - will we survive? - Page 12 Empty Re: Coronavirus - will we survive? on Sun Sep 06 2020, 08:04

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Of course I get it. I just don’t think it adds value if folk put on a mask, walk through the door and then immediately remove the mask.

337Coronavirus - will we survive? - Page 12 Empty Re: Coronavirus - will we survive? on Sun Sep 06 2020, 10:38

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
@wanderlust wrote:Of course I get it. I just don’t think it adds value if folk put on a mask, walk through the door and then immediately remove the mask.

Presumably they are within social distance of those sat eating whilst they are walking to their table.

Once they are at their table they are social distance from everyone else and free to take off their masks in safety to others and themselves.

I guess if everybody was simply doing this everywhere, respecting others by wearing a mask, social distancing and frequently washing their hands we could all help to beat this virus easily - but of course plenty just don't give a fuck.

I tend to food shop in three local stores to me (not the massive supermarket types) and all three stores are in a different direction from my home and as such are in different neighbourhoods. In one store, everybody wears masks and use the hand disinfection before entering. In the second store it's about half and half who wear masks (this is mainly a white neighbourhood), in the third one you would be lucky if 20% wore masks (this is a mixed neighbourhood).

All three shops are all within about a half hour walking distance, all three neighbourhoods all having different social norms of what is acceptable and the 'way we do things around here'.

We are never going to beat this thing without some vaccine or similar because too many people simply can't be arsed to do the basic and easy little things that would help.

I assume you are not a great fan of wearing a mask based on your original comment and scathing reasoning for the restaurants need and policy? Why else even mention it if wearing a mask wasn't an issue for you and had become second nature to yourself?

It wouldn't surprise me in the least that you think you know better than they/everybody else does.

338Coronavirus - will we survive? - Page 12 Empty Re: Coronavirus - will we survive? on Sun Sep 06 2020, 16:06

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
@Sluffy wrote:Another 27 cases for Bolton taken them to what I think is their peak of 105.5 per 100,000k averaged over the last seven days.

Tomorrow 68 cases drop out and I'd be disappointed if we get 69 or more new ones tomorrow to replace them - but you never know!

Wow, was I wrong!

105 cases for Bolton today AND just short of 3,000 for the UK - that's over 1,000 from yesterday.

Problems ahead it seems.

Coronavirus - will we survive? - Page 12 EhPfEucXYAAr3_B?format=png&name=900x900

339Coronavirus - will we survive? - Page 12 Empty Re: Coronavirus - will we survive? on Sun Sep 06 2020, 16:58

karlypants

karlypants
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
A staff member has tested positive at Astley Bridge Connie club and also the Bank Top Brewery Tap just further up on Belmont Road.

They have said that everyone has been notified through contact tracing but I bet they haven't.

They have had a deep clean and back up and running today aparrently.

We are awaiting school closures now due to the tighter lockdown rules that the council has decided to impose as Bolton college has had to make new changes to accomodate students.

340Coronavirus - will we survive? - Page 12 Empty Re: Coronavirus - will we survive? on Sun Sep 06 2020, 17:44

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@Sluffy wrote:

Presumably they are within social distance of those sat eating whilst they are walking to their table.

Once they are at their table they are social distance from everyone else and free to take off their masks in safety to others and themselves.

I guess if everybody was simply doing this everywhere, respecting others by wearing a mask, social distancing and frequently washing their hands we could all help to beat this virus easily - but of course plenty just don't give a fuck.

I tend to food shop in three local stores to me (not the massive supermarket types) and all three stores are in a different direction from my home and as such are in different neighbourhoods.  In one store, everybody wears masks and use the hand disinfection before entering.  In the second store it's about half and half who wear masks (this is mainly a white neighbourhood), in the third one you would be lucky if 20% wore masks (this is a mixed neighbourhood).

All three shops are all within about a half hour walking distance, all three neighbourhoods all having different social norms of what is acceptable and the 'way we do things around here'.

We are never going to beat this thing without some vaccine or similar because too many people simply can't be arsed to do the basic and easy little things that would help.

I assume you are not a great fan of wearing a mask based on your original comment and scathing reasoning for the restaurants need and policy?  Why else even mention it if wearing a mask wasn't an issue for you and had become second nature to yourself?

It wouldn't surprise me in the least that you think you know better than they/everybody else does.
Really unnecessary snide comment yet again but yet again I’ll let it pass in case you have another hissy fit.

In answer to the question, I am a great believer in wearing masks and showing respect for others however the point I was making is that it is obligatory to wear a mask when entering catering premises regardless of the risk to social distancing and yet it’s ok to remove said mask once inside. Surely common sense would dictate that you should where a mask if people are near but it’s not necessary if they are ten yards away?

341Coronavirus - will we survive? - Page 12 Empty Re: Coronavirus - will we survive? on Sun Sep 06 2020, 18:06

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
@wanderlust wrote:Really unnecessary snide comment yet again but yet again I’ll let it pass in case you have another hissy fit.

In answer to the question, I am a great believer in wearing masks and showing respect for others however the point I was making is that it is obligatory to wear a mask when entering catering premises regardless of the risk to social distancing and yet it’s ok to remove said mask once inside. Surely common sense would dictate that you should where a mask if people are near but it’s not necessary if they are ten yards away?

What's the hardship in doing so?

Some country's lockdowns include wearing a mask all the time - the Japanese seem to already be doing that even before the virus was even in existence!

As far as I'm concerned it's just something you do as a habit.

You made a point on one of your earlier posts about everyone wearing a mask indoors where you are - and yet you are quibbling about wearing one yourself when simply walking to your table in a restaurant in that country.

Make your mind up or are you simply saying it's a good thing for others to do it but you are some sort of special case and can do what you want, when you please?

342Coronavirus - will we survive? - Page 12 Empty Re: Coronavirus - will we survive? on Sun Sep 06 2020, 18:54

Natasha Whittam

Natasha Whittam
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
It's about time the government stopped pussyfooting around and gave the British public an ultimatum. If cases are still increasing in 7 days time they should close all bars and restaurants and any other "entertainment" venue and put everyone back into lockdown.

People aren't taking this seriously. Make mask wearing mandatory outside the home with an instant 28 day prison sentence for anyone caught going without. Start fooking cracking down on these twats and give them something to think about.

343Coronavirus - will we survive? - Page 12 Empty Re: Coronavirus - will we survive? on Sun Sep 06 2020, 19:04

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@Sluffy wrote:

What's the hardship in doing so?

Some country's lockdowns include wearing a mask all the time - the Japanese seem to already be doing that even before the virus was even in existence!

As far as I'm concerned it's just something you do as a habit.

You made a point on one of your earlier posts about everyone wearing a mask indoors where you are - and yet you are quibbling about wearing one yourself when simply walking to your table in a restaurant in that country.

Make your mind up or are you simply saying it's a good thing for others to do it but you are some sort of special case and can do what you want, when you please?

Erm ... no.
You’ve completely failed to grasp the point again.

344Coronavirus - will we survive? - Page 12 Empty Re: Coronavirus - will we survive? on Sun Sep 06 2020, 19:11

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@Natasha Whittam wrote:It's about time the government stopped pussyfooting around and gave the British public an ultimatum. If cases are still increasing in 7 days time they should close all bars and restaurants and any other "entertainment" venue and put everyone back into lockdown.

People aren't taking this seriously. Make mask wearing mandatory outside the home with an instant 28 day prison sentence for anyone caught going without. Start fooking cracking down on these twats and give them something to think about.

Pretty much what’s happening in Spain and it will eventually work but it will take time as virus spread is a critical mass thing and once the cat is out of the bag it takes draconian measures to sort the problem.

345Coronavirus - will we survive? - Page 12 Empty Re: Coronavirus - will we survive? on Sun Sep 06 2020, 19:12

karlypants

karlypants
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@Natasha Whittam wrote:It's about time the government stopped pussyfooting around and gave the British public an ultimatum. If cases are still increasing in 7 days time they should close all bars and restaurants and any other "entertainment" venue and put everyone back into lockdown.

People aren't taking this seriously. Make mask wearing mandatory outside the home with an instant 28 day prison sentence for anyone caught going without. Start fooking cracking down on these twats and give them something to think about.

Spot on there Tasha!

346Coronavirus - will we survive? - Page 12 Empty Re: Coronavirus - will we survive? on Sun Sep 06 2020, 20:10

T.R.O.Y.


Nicolas Anelka
Nicolas Anelka
Agree with Nat people aren’t listening so the government need to get tough. I’ve been to France and Turkey over summer (one holiday, one not) - everywhere I went in both countries everyone wore masks in shops. In Turkey everyone wears a mask in restaurants until their food arrived. For whatever reason the advice here hasn’t been taken seriously enough, there seems to be a fundamental distrust in the government - that’s not a Tory thing it would be the same if it was Labour I’m sure.

347Coronavirus - will we survive? - Page 12 Empty Re: Coronavirus - will we survive? on Sun Sep 06 2020, 22:09

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
I'm beginning to think the contrary, that maybe it is best just to let the virus spread and have done with it - but with one or two proviso's though.

And those are that as long as hospital admissions remain low (todays information is saying 124 new admissions, 756 in hospital, 69 on ventilation - compared to the 26th August - the last time I made a note for myself - of 97 admissions, 782 in hospital, 68 on vents - so no real change in two weeks even though there were 1,048 new cases that day and it as not been that low ever since) and deaths remain low - both of which they are!

My reason goes something like this.

You simply can't stop outbreaks happening - look at New Zealand for instance where they had no cases for weeks/months.  You also can not stop people doing what they please (you can't lock everyone up!), so even if we were to impose a massive lockdown, impose draconian sanctions and got the virus down to zero, it would only take one undetected illegal immigrant sneaking into the country with the virus, or one person illegally trafficked here with the virus, or somebody doing something dodgy and it all kicks off again!

Wouldn't it be better just to get it done and dusted now as it seems that the vast bulk of those testing positive are in general terms, quite healthy even though they have it, that the cases are not swamping the NHS and that deaths are in all honesty incredibly low.

There's some talk about herd immunity and if you had it once do you become immune to it (and if so for how long?) but IF the overwhelming number of positives lead to nothing more than a couple of weeks self isolation then why not let it spread?

OK we would have to shield the vulnerable but they would have to be shielded anyway as we go through the second, third, fourth waves etc?

The virus is in the community and in reality we either ALL lock ourselves away worldwide, until no one has it and its gone for good (or until some Chinaman eats another infected pangolin (allegedly), or we accept we have to go through it, build up some immunity to it and get on with our lives.

I'm not saying all this glibly as I'm one of those who would need to be shielded and probably at greater risk than most but isn't it better to go through it knowingly and plan to keep your head down for three, four five months or however long it takes, rather have to go through it when the inevitable second, third, fourth waves arrive - and they will you know.

Are people safer in New Zealand where very, very few have had the virus - but know it could spread like wildfire if some infected person started it off again - or say Bolton that's in the middle of it right now?

At least once Bolton comes out of it, a goodly percentage of the population would have had it and come through unscathed and unlikely to have it again, whereas in New Zealand they've had all those lockdowns, been scrupulous over keeping it out and still have had that outbreak and further lockdown.

If it's going to happen and you can't stop it then you might as well let it happen on your terms and that seems to me that many who were vulnerable to it have already died from it, hospitals seemed to have learned how best to treat most cases and the ones catching it aren't suffering from it - and they are the ones who will not abide by the rules (masks, social distancing, isolating themselves when required to, etc) and catch it sooner or later anyway?

A bit of a radical view from me I know but one that seems the most practical in the circumstances we find ourselves in I would suggest.

348Coronavirus - will we survive? - Page 12 Empty Re: Coronavirus - will we survive? on Mon Sep 07 2020, 08:34

Norpig

Norpig
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@Norpig wrote:So many people on my facebook pages bragging they won't wear a mask, it's no wonder Bolton is top of the table  Rolling Eyes

What these morons don't seem to be able to grasp is that yes it may not affect therm if they get it but they could pass it on to their parents of grandparents who may have underlying issues which will only get worse if they catch it.
 Even more outrage on Facebook now the restrictions have tightened, people up in arms about their civil liberties and the conspiracy theories have ramped up again. 

Why does my hometown have to be full of thick as shit morons? Glad i moved away to be honest.

349Coronavirus - will we survive? - Page 12 Empty Re: Coronavirus - will we survive? on Mon Sep 07 2020, 13:06

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
Seems the 'pub' story may well be true after all!

9:33
UK has seen issues with social distancing - Hancock

There have been problems with social distancing in the UK, according to the country's health secretary.

When asked if people were not following the rules, Matt Hancock told LBC: "We certainly see cases where they are not, and then we take action."

He said that many cases in Bolton were linked to a single pub which has been asked to close.

Hancock highlighted recent rises in cases in France, Spain and in some other countries across Europe.

"Nobody wants to see a second wave here," he said.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-54053588

350Coronavirus - will we survive? - Page 12 Empty Re: Coronavirus - will we survive? on Mon Sep 07 2020, 13:08

karlypants

karlypants
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@Norpig wrote:
@Norpig wrote:So many people on my facebook pages bragging they won't wear a mask, it's no wonder Bolton is top of the table  Rolling Eyes

What these morons don't seem to be able to grasp is that yes it may not affect therm if they get it but they could pass it on to their parents of grandparents who may have underlying issues which will only get worse if they catch it.
 Even more outrage on Facebook now the restrictions have tightened, people up in arms about their civil liberties and the conspiracy theories have ramped up again. 

Why does my hometown have to be full of thick as shit morons? Glad i moved away to be honest.

It's not FULL of them but I know what you mean. Wink

351Coronavirus - will we survive? - Page 12 Empty Re: Coronavirus - will we survive? on Mon Sep 07 2020, 13:14

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
Found this from 28th August - Breightmet pub as on Bury Road (near the bootom Bull) as well -

Bolton pub closed as customer tested positive for coronavirus


Coronavirus - will we survive? - Page 12 11749818

https://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/news/18683532.pub-closed-clean-customer-tested-positive-coronavirus/

352Coronavirus - will we survive? - Page 12 Empty Re: Coronavirus - will we survive? on Mon Sep 07 2020, 13:15

karlypants

karlypants
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@Sluffy wrote:Found this from 28th August - Breightmet pub as on Bury Road (near the bottom Bull) as well -

Bolton pub closed as customer tested positive for coronavirus


Coronavirus - will we survive? - Page 12 11749818

https://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/news/18683532.pub-closed-clean-customer-tested-positive-coronavirus/

It's the Bottom Bull as mentioned further up.

353Coronavirus - will we survive? - Page 12 Empty Re: Coronavirus - will we survive? on Mon Sep 07 2020, 13:27

boltonbonce

boltonbonce
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

354Coronavirus - will we survive? - Page 12 Empty Re: Coronavirus - will we survive? on Mon Sep 07 2020, 13:54

observer


Andy Walker
Andy Walker
@Natasha Whittam wrote:It's about time the government stopped pussyfooting around and gave the British public an ultimatum. If cases are still increasing in 7 days time they should close all bars and restaurants and any other "entertainment" venue and put everyone back into lockdown.

People aren't taking this seriously. Make mask wearing mandatory outside the home with an instant 28 day prison sentence for anyone caught going without. Start fooking cracking down on these twats and give them something to think about.

Across the pond, after a horrendous March and April, our rate of infection in New York is less than 1%.  Yet today, less than 75% wear masks, or wear them properly (with their nose covered).   Draconian state and city measures did work, especially when the federal government failed us time and time again.  Listen to the scientists... and Natasha... they both know how to mitigate the length of this pandemic.



Last edited by observer on Mon Sep 07 2020, 14:16; edited 2 times in total

355Coronavirus - will we survive? - Page 12 Empty Re: Coronavirus - will we survive? on Mon Sep 07 2020, 14:02

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin

She's right but what can we do?

IF everybody did the simple stuff - social distance, stay in your bubble, etc - then the virus couldn't spread - but from what I've seen the majority (probably even the vast majority) simply don't - you even have people like Wanderlust who claims he has great concerns about catching it moaning on here as to having to wear a mask to enter a restaurant to get to his socially distance table ffs!

We have too many people who simply won't follow the 'rules' and they simple can't be enforced as such, which leaves us with two choices, we go back into a severe lockdown and put the army on to the streets to enforce it - which apart from being unacceptable to many would ruin the economy, or we soldier on the best we can how we are doing now - which although new cases are going through the roof, hasn't as yet translated that into people needing hospitalisation and deaths - so it seems the young are catching it in the main but it is not harming them.

So it makes sense, if for the economy's sake alone, to let life continue but with the consequence that the older and ill have to live in fear of catching it.

I can only speak for myself and have organised my life accordingly to minimise the risk to me.  For instance I do go out but at 'off-peak' times - I avoid crowds, I stay in the open as much as I can, I stay away from popular places and town centres, large stores, touristy places, etc, etc.

Maybe I'm fortunate enough to be able to do such things, I'm sure many aren't, but they would have to minimise the risks as much as they can in their own particular circumstance they find themselves in.

This thing isn't going away and clearly much of the population aren't really changing their lives much to do anything to help get rid of it so the only option I can see is those like myself have to be the ones who change our ways.

The world isn't going to change for me so I must be the one to change for the world.

What other choice is there?

356Coronavirus - will we survive? - Page 12 Empty Re: Coronavirus - will we survive? on Mon Sep 07 2020, 16:10

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
'Just' another 45 new cases for Bolton today but a further 2,948 for the UK.

Reported numbers have 'usually' been a little lower on Sunday's and Monday's as information isn't always filed by some at the weekend and the totals are added to the Tuesdays and Wednesday's, so if that is the case this weekend it makes you wonder what the totals will be like in the next few days!

We'll soon find out though.

357Coronavirus - will we survive? - Page 12 Empty Re: Coronavirus - will we survive? on Mon Sep 07 2020, 22:30

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@Sluffy wrote:

She's right but what can we do?

IF everybody did the simple stuff - social distance, stay in your bubble, etc - then the virus couldn't spread - but from what I've seen the majority (probably even the vast majority) simply don't - you even have people like Wanderlust who claims he has great concerns about catching it moaning on here as to having to wear a mask to enter a restaurant to get to his socially blah blah missed the point again diatribe 
Wtf is up with you? Do you fancy me or something?

358Coronavirus - will we survive? - Page 12 Empty Re: Coronavirus - will we survive? on Mon Sep 07 2020, 23:33

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
@wanderlust wrote:
@Sluffy wrote:

She's right but what can we do?

IF everybody did the simple stuff - social distance, stay in your bubble, etc - then the virus couldn't spread - but from what I've seen the majority (probably even the vast majority) simply don't - you even have people like Wanderlust who claims he has great concerns about catching it moaning on here as to having to wear a mask to enter a restaurant to get to his socially blah blah missed the point again diatribe 
Wtf is up with you? Do you fancy me or something?

If your looks are anything like the way you portray and present yourself on here then most certainly not.

I don't appreciate you rewriting my quotes either to put your words in to my mouth.

I didn't miss the point at all, you clearly thought it was pointless wearing a mask in the circumstances you described - the alternative being the diners somehow consume their food whilst still wearing their masks!

However that proved the point I was making namely that the majority of people simply can't just accept the current conventions required of them to beat the virus but instead determine themselves what they believe/think/feel they are entitled to do instead - and go ahead and do so, and don't give a fuck about anyone else.

Is it any wonder why new infections are shooting upwards again with attitudes and behaviour like that?

359Coronavirus - will we survive? - Page 12 Empty Re: Coronavirus - will we survive? on Tue Sep 08 2020, 14:16

karlypants

karlypants
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
All pubs, bars and restaurants are now takeaway only in Bolton under new lockdown measures...

https://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/news/18705319.coronavirus-pubs-bars-restaurants-bolton-restricted-takeaway-new-lockdown-measures/

360Coronavirus - will we survive? - Page 12 Empty Re: Coronavirus - will we survive? on Tue Sep 08 2020, 14:19

karlypants

karlypants
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

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