How is the Tory government doing?

@Cajunboy wrote:Sunak is far too thin for the job of PM and there is an overriding air of oilyness  about him like a  creepy car salesman.

An excellent summing up of the entire Tory party.

Mind you....

Brilliant start to Bake-Off. Very funny and clever....

https://twitter.com/i/status/1308485512110510081

@okocha wrote:Brilliant start to Bake-Off. Very funny and clever....

https://twitter.com/i/status/1308485512110510081

Apparently only 188 people complained to Ofcom re taking the piss out of Boris.

Compared with the 15,000 racists who complained about a BLM supporting dance on ITV. Embarrassing country.

Hypocrites at it again:

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/parliament-s-bars-exempt-from-10pm-coronavirus-curfew-wb6g6bbgp

This has now been changed to 10pm closing

Instant backlash

@T.R.O.Y. wrote:Hypocrites at it again:

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/parliament-s-bars-exempt-from-10pm-coronavirus-curfew-wb6g6bbgp

It's pretty clear that there is no rhyme nor reason to the decisions these cowboys make other than to cave in to what they feel will be popular with their fanbase - and even that's misjudged. 
Whilst they're busy handing out jobs and contracts to their supporters, and avoiding the key issues by spouting jingoistic claptrap instead of answering the questions, the country is going to pot.
I know Boris wants to be loved but at some point in time he's going to have to put country before populism and start taking the hard decisions needed to manage both the covid and financial crises that his government have managed to exacerbate spectacularly.

Or is he? Maybe he'll just carry on doing nothing until he's kicked out and then head back to his country of birth to make a fortune on the after dinner circuit?

@T.R.O.Y. wrote:Instant backlash

Good, if we ask others to follow the regulations then we must also follow them, it’s basic stuff really https://t.co/AHYWwJ6U2v

— Angela Rayner (@AngelaRayner) September 28, 2020

As she says basic stuff but to be fair it probably was an oversite by someone than a deliberate attempt to bend the rules although you would have thought someone, somewhere, in charge of the bars and restaurants in Parliament, would have used their common sense - in fact we don't actually know if any alcohol was served after 10.00pm and who was drinking - might have just been Labour MP's only for all we know!

Still it shouldn't have happened.

I quite like Angela Rayner in her higher political profile at the moment.

I'm not sure I would have a pinned tweet of myself as my first post on my Twitter account like she has (somehow seems egotistical to my mind - unless it is something self depreciating and funny to share) but I guess she must be proud of herself (or someone who probably does her PR does) but it does gets her point across in a damning sort of way.

Is restoring grouse shooting really @BorisJohnson's priority?#PMQs pic.twitter.com/kRkzrVIzsM

— Angela Rayner (@AngelaRayner) September 16, 2020

Gove travels to Brussels to begin the climb down.

They don't help themselves do they.

Watch as Prime Minister Boris Johnson gets the new rules for the North East of England wrong.

Later he said he had 'misspoken' about what the rule of six means for people around the country.

Read more: https://t.co/u9PPNUlgpl pic.twitter.com/YHo3DuE4fP

— SkyNews (@SkyNews) September 29, 2020

Isn't that the guy off Bake Off again?

@T.R.O.Y. wrote:They don't help themselves do they.

I don't blame him, I've lost track of what I can and can't do.

At the moment I only set foot outside to exercise and visit Morrisons.

I haven't spoken to a real person since July.

@T.R.O.Y. wrote:They don't help themselves do they.

To be fair many/most people seem to be doing what they please anyway.

Looking back I think we got it wrong right from the very start on the assumption, that seemed perfectly valid at the time, that we tackle this as a nation, as the problem would effect all of the nation.

The thing is, it does BUT not all at the same time and as equally when it does.

We kicked off by Scotland, Wales and NI doing their own things as they perceived how the virus was/would be effecting them.

We decided to lockdown the whole country when places like London was clearly going through it yet places like North Norfolk had not even recorded a single case (maybe they had the odd one but I'm sure you get my point)!

Probably what we should have done was devolve action down to local level right from the start and have clearly understood rules applying to what people need to follow at and when various trigger points are reached (cases per 100,000 of the population over a given period of consecutive days), with the national mantra being the simple, social distance, wash hands, wear masks on public transport and any indoor area not able to provide a safe coronavirus environment, etc.

It would have done away with all the silliness of stay at home, no, go out to work, no, no, go back to work from home again, flip-flopping and everything else - as it would have allowed life to go on as near as possible for those areas where R was less than 1 and introduced ramping up measures when particular areas started to look to/actually exceed that and more draconian measures ramping up as the virus ran out of control and being eased as it fell down the scale.  Make the restrictions to those people needing to follow them, relevant and clearly understandable and directly making sense to the people needing to follow them because it was in THEIR neighbourhood at that time!

You wouldn't have central messages from government that people couldn't understand why they were being told to do stuff - for instance why should folk in North Norfolk be told to stay at home when there hasn't been any positive cases, and be on the same level as 'enforcement' as say London was, being the initial epicentre in the country?

No wonder people thought fuck this, and bugger lockdown as they could see no point to it in their particular areas - but people in London could and probably stuck to it more rigidly - certainly goes someway as an explanation as to why the second wave seems to have effected London much less than the north who really didn't have an issue to deal with when the national lockdown came in.

The message has got lost as people think now that the government and it's leaders are a joke - and let's face it, they are - but I did try to warn people that once the government (any government) has been critically undermined and no longer trusted by the electorate that then all you are left with anarchy - hence everybody getting pissed on the streets up and down the country, no social distancing, no masks and many in areas where the virus and R number is out of control.

We are even now seemingly getting areas such as the North East whose authorities are demanding and having imposed STRICTER lockdowns than other areas in the country (the North West) who have currently HIGHER cases than they have!  Clearly the NE wants it stopping before it gets to NW levels - and who can blame them?

Johnson has shown that he's not the man for detail and from what I read it seems his own party now sees him as a liability.  He's not going anywhere though, who in their right mind would want to take on this poison chalice just now - and with Brexit to deal with too!

We get what we deserve.

Johnson is only in power because he was seen as the LEAST worst choice to Corbyn and anyone with half a brain could see that Corbyn was completely unelectable to the vast electorate - and the election results proved that emphatically!

Labour put him on the leadership battle (Margaret Beckett et al) because they thought there would be absolutely no chance of him winning it, in just the same was Cameron forced through the referendum as the belief was that Leave/Brexit couldn't possibly win it.

Boy did they get both of those wrong!

Hence the shit we are in.

Labour, Conservative - as bad as each other - played games/politics when they need not have done and both got their fingers massively burned and placed the country in a mess that no one wanted or deserves.

Three lions led by donkeys perhaps one could say?

Today Boris made a speech in which he said that in the forthcoming economic crash, over the next 10 years people currently in jobs are likely to have to retrain/qualify to do different jobs.

Apparently he's going to be a brickie if he can get his NVQ level 3...

Bizarre claim here Sluffy, you warned us all that the government were undermining themselves? Seem to remember you rallying against any scrutiny of them - is that what you’re referring to?

Can you point me to some example of where Labour have played political games over this crisis? Generic criticism to make, but I don’t think it’s accurate.

@Natasha Whittam wrote:

I don't blame him, I've lost track of what I can and can't do.

At the moment I only set foot outside to exercise and visit Morrisons.

I haven't spoken to a real person since July.

Agreed all got a bit complicated now hasn’t it.

Always had you down as an M&S type to be honest. Good for you.

@T.R.O.Y. wrote:Bizarre claim here Sluffy, you warned us all that the government were undermining themselves? Seem to remember you rallying against any scrutiny of them - is that what you’re referring to?

Can you point me to some example of where Labour have played political games over this crisis? Generic criticism to make, but I don’t think it’s accurate.

Nope, try reading what I wrote again, I never said that.

My point has always been you either have authority and leadership and if you don't you have disobedience/anarchy instead.

In simple terms united we stand divided we fall, if you like.

Obviously I never warned you or anybody else that the government (any government) would set out to undermine itself - how ridiculous is that - I've no idea what you have in your head that came up with that interpretation of what I've wrote???

I warned right from the start that this pandemic should have been a time for unity - a voluntary coalition government in the time of the emergency - rather than constant political point scoring and a gradual and ultimately a catastrophic erosion in public belief/obeying of the rules on a consensual basis, of the government and it's leader and prime advisor.

Mistakes were bound to be made, particularly at the start, when we and the rest of the world were very much in the dark about how best to deal with this thing with the tools at hand at the time.

It's all there at the beginning of this thread if you care to look.

What happened was very much as I predicted, political point scoring, the blame game, looking back to past mistakes rather than moving forward to future solutions, public political flag waving at failures and failings, rather than uniting to getting over them and working towards improvements and successes.

Politics - from both sides - were the cause of this - I'm not just laying the blame at Labours door for all the political point scoring/holding the government 'to account' - the Conservative leadership could (and should) have invited Labour in (particularly when Corbyn finally gave way and stood down) but didn't because of rule two of politics.

The outcome was predictable although it became a car crash over the Cummings debacle when everyone lost complete trust in the current administration - and rightly so.

So as a consequence we've got a government that no one listens too, a large chunk of the population that does as it pleases and a virus that is growing exponentially in the community as a result.

The only thing in our favour thus far is that the virus is generally manageable in terms of hospital admissions, intensive care facilities and low rates of death.

As long as that stays the same no doubt 'we' can get through this irrespective of the leadership of the government or the behaviour of the vast numbers of irresponsible people in the community.

Maybe if we had of had a coalition government things might have been the same but I doubt they could have been much worse and I believe they could well have been substantially better - but that never happened so no point in wishing it had.

Might as well stay as positive as we can and expect things to carry on as they have and manage our own individual risks and get on with our life's - screaming at Boris/Cummings isn't going to change anything now really is it?

I’d say we’ve had an absence of leadership that has meant we’ve needed to overcome more issues than we should have so far. I don’t think it’s quite anarchy in the streets yet though.

Again though you mention political point scoring on all sides, can you give any examples of that happening under Starmer?

@T.R.O.Y. wrote:I’d say we’ve had an absence of leadership that has meant we’ve needed to overcome more issues than we should have so far. I don’t think it’s quite anarchy in the streets yet though.

Again though you mention political point scoring on all sides, can you give any examples of that happening under Starmer?

Less under Starmer but you still get political posturing/point scoring like this below, wouldn't it have been better if there was a government of unity to deal with the national emergency comprising of Labour and Conservatives possibly SNP and Welsh assembly members too - instead trotting out a list of failures nearly all of which happened months back when the tsunami of the pandemic hit and the country simply wasn't prepared for it or even knew what and how to deal with it.

Also what point is there banging on about local authority cuts in the future - everything is on hold until we get on top of the virus irrespective of the cost or ramifications of anything else.



As for leadership, we do have it - just that it's been spectacularly bad.

Could it have been any worse under a unity government - I really don't think so, would it have been better, its hard to believe it couldn't - but it never happened, so pointless even thinking about it.

Anarchy is the word I've been using because I don't really have a better one - what I'm trying to say is that large chunks of the public have deliberately ignored the instructions of the government - which have been made into law now - and continue to do so - wilfully.

Anarchy's too strong a word, I agree, civil disobedience is too, but it really is anarchy 'lite' or civil 'deliberately not being in' obedience if you see what I mean.

People are wilfully ignoring the rules - the government rules are not being consented to by thousands/millions of its people.

I doubt we'll get rioting on the streets but we are getting deliberate shows of defiance when the pubs are being closed - hopefully it will soon be getting too cold for most people to continue to do so but they no doubt will continue their 'party' someplace else and who is going to stop them?  They aren't bothered about the virus because for the vast majority of them it won't even make them ill!

I can't blame them wanting to enjoy their life's, that's what they should be doing anyway - just don't bring the virus home to us oldies and sick!

If the government (any government) can't 'lead' their people, then they have to design other polices to achieve their aims that will be acceptable to them.

I still think we should all be in this together but clearly a coalition government won't be happening anytime soon, if at all.

We just stagger on as we are unfortunately.

As I say the key is keeping hospitals working and death rates low - if that can be maintained we don't really have much to worry about (unless it is you or your loved ones in hospital or worse).

@sunlight wrote:

Love it. Wonderful piece of film.

@Sluffy wrote:

Nope, try reading what I wrote again, I never said that.

My point has always been you either have authority and leadership and if you don't you have disobedience/anarchy instead.

In simple terms united we stand divided we fall, if you like.

Obviously I never warned you or anybody else that the government (any government) would set out to undermine itself - how ridiculous is that - I've no idea what you have in your head that came up with that interpretation of what I've wrote???

I warned right from the start that this pandemic should have been a time for unity - a voluntary coalition government in the time of the emergency - rather than constant political point scoring and a gradual and ultimately a catastrophic erosion in public belief/obeying of the rules on a consensual basis, of the government and it's leader and prime advisor.

Mistakes were bound to be made, particularly at the start, when we and the rest of the world were very much in the dark about how best to deal with this thing with the tools at hand at the time.

It's all there at the beginning of this thread if you care to look.

What happened was very much as I predicted, political point scoring, the blame game, looking back to past mistakes rather than moving forward to future solutions, public political flag waving at failures and failings, rather than uniting to getting over them and working towards improvements and successes.

Politics - from both sides - were the cause of this - I'm not just laying the blame at Labours door for all the political point scoring/holding the government 'to account' - the Conservative leadership could (and should) have invited Labour in (particularly when Corbyn finally gave way and stood down) but didn't because of rule two of politics.

The outcome was predictable although it became a car crash over the Cummings debacle when everyone lost complete trust in the current administration - and rightly so.

So as a consequence we've got a government that no one listens too, a large chunk of the population that does as it pleases and a virus that is growing exponentially in the community as a result.

The only thing in our favour thus far is that the virus is generally manageable in terms of hospital admissions, intensive care facilities and low rates of death.

As long as that stays the same no doubt 'we' can get through this irrespective of the leadership of the government or the behaviour of the vast numbers of irresponsible people in the community.

Maybe if we had of had a coalition government things might have been the same but I doubt they could have been much worse and I believe they could well have been substantially better - but that never happened so no point in wishing it had.

Might as well stay as positive as we can and expect things to carry on as they have and manage our own individual risks and get on with our life's - screaming at Boris/Cummings isn't going to change anything now really is it?

Yes it was predictable because this is England where politicians and the people behave and react in a certain way and armed with that knowledge, things should have been better thought through but it seems little thought went into most things so far - which surprises me for a campaign that has held sway in the PR stakes to date. Totally understand your viewpoint with which I broadly agree although I do think someone needs to do something - even if it's just screaming at them - anything for damage limitation at this point.

@wanderlust wrote:Yes it was predictable because this is England where politicians and the people behave and react in a certain way and armed with that knowledge, things should have been better thought through but it seems little thought went into most things so far - which surprises me for a campaign that has held sway in the PR stakes to date. Totally understand your viewpoint with which I broadly agree although I do think someone needs to do something - even if it's just screaming at them - anything for damage limitation at this point.

What was predictable?

Politicians predictable?

What are you talking about???

The Brexit vote certainly wasn't predictable - although to be fair you voted for it!  Theresa May becoming PM wasn't at all predictable before Cameron's decided to hold a needless referendum.  Corbyn becoming leader of the Labour Party wasn't even remotely thought to be feasible let alone predictable - although his crushing General Election defeat to buffoon Boris was the surest thing that's happened so far this century!  How then you've come to a conclusion that things should have been 'better thought through' absolutely astounds me - half the Tory senior politicians were purged by Boris prior to his GE victory in December last year and unknowingly at the time Covid was already circulating in China by then, so who do you think was planning for what in the middle of a Tory night of the long knives taking place!???  Certainly nothing for a world pandemic just some few months later!!!

As for venting about Boris/the government on here that's certainly not leading to any sort of damage limitation in the slightest is it???

If you feel that strongly go out and do something, otherwise what is the point of being angry on here, that's going to achieve absolutely fuck all!

Did you know that your local MP Duncan Barker stood - and lost - as a UKIP candidate for Holt in the 2015 Local elections and within the space of two years change his party to Conservative,  got elected (I'm guessing by a by-election?) to the council, two years later still became its leader following the May 2019 local election and in December 2019 was elected to Parliament as your MP!

I doubt he could have achieved that by just moaning about politics on the North Norfolk Nuts forum - do you?

https://www.andrewteale.me.uk/leap/results/2015/278/
https://www.northnorfolknews.co.uk/news/duncan-baker-group-leader-of-conservative-party-at-north-norfolk-council-1-6065497
https://modgov.north-norfolk.gov.uk/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=473
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/politics/constituencies/E14000848

@Sluffy wrote:

What was predictable?

Politicians predictable?

What are you talking about???

The Brexit vote certainly wasn't predictable - although to be fair you voted for it!  Theresa May becoming PM wasn't at all predictable before Cameron's decided to hold a needless referendum.  Corbyn becoming leader of the Labour Party wasn't even remotely thought to be feasible let alone predictable - although his crushing General Election defeat to buffoon Boris was the surest thing that's happened so far this century!  How then you've come to a conclusion that things should have been 'better thought through' absolutely astounds me - half the Tory senior politicians were purged by Boris prior to his GE victory in December last year and unknowingly at the time Covid was already circulating in China by then, so who do you think was planning for what in the middle of a Tory night of the long knives taking place!???  Certainly nothing for a world pandemic just some few months later!!!

As for venting about Boris/the government on here that's certainly not leading to any sort of damage limitation in the slightest is it???

If you feel that strongly go out and do something, otherwise what is the point of being angry on here, that's going to achieve absolutely fuck all!

Did you know that your local MP Duncan Barker stood - and lost - as a UKIP candidate for Holt in the 2015 Local elections and within the space of two years change his party to Conservative,  got elected (I'm guessing by a by-election?) to the council, two years later still became its leader following the May 2019 local election and in December 2019 was elected to Parliament as your MP!

I doubt he could have achieved that by just moaning about politics on the North Norfolk Nuts forum - do you?

https://www.andrewteale.me.uk/leap/results/2015/278/
https://www.northnorfolknews.co.uk/news/duncan-baker-group-leader-of-conservative-party-at-north-norfolk-council-1-6065497
https://modgov.north-norfolk.gov.uk/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=473
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/politics/constituencies/E14000848

Must have spent ages trawling to try to find something to support your flaky argument and you still managed to miss the point. Although you did make one yourself and then argued against it.
And FYI I live in Broadland as it happens so you'd better go back and start again

@wanderlust wrote:Must have spent ages trawling to try to find something to support your flaky argument and you still managed to miss the point. Although you did make one yourself and then argued against it.
And FYI I live in Broadland as it happens so you'd better go back and start again

It really takes no time at all to google who is the MP for North Norfolk - as you said that's where you lived - and then google his name and all the rest simply popped out.

Tbh it's second nature for me to do such things, it's always been about knowledge is power (scientia potentia est) in my career, it's a great deal easier to do so now then when I started out doing my research at the reference library in town all those years back!

Maybe you should try it sometimes - but then again you think you know it all, already!

Brexit predictable, Corbyn to be leader of the Labour Party, predictable, May to be PM predictable - yeah right!

You did vote for Brexit though to be fair.

Well done, hope you're pleased with your decision still!

@Sluffy wrote:

It really takes no time at all to google who is the MP for North Norfolk - as you said that's where you lived - and then google his name and all the rest simply popped out.

Tbh it's second nature for me to do such things, it's always been about knowledge is power (scientia potentia est) in my career, it's a great deal easier to do so now then when I started out doing my research at the reference library in town all those years back!

Maybe you should try it sometimes - but then again you think you know it all, already!

Brexit predictable, Corbyn to be leader of the Labour Party, predictable, May to be PM predictable - yeah right!

You did vote for Brexit though to be fair.

Well done, hope you're pleased with your decision still!

Well you're right inasmuch that I do live in the north of Norfolk so I'll give you a tenth of a point for effort but the rest is wordly twaddle given that I wrote about predictable behavioural patterns before you went off at a tangent so I'm afraid it's going to have to be 0.1 out of 10. Must try harder - an occasional fact and sticking to the topic might help.

@wanderlust wrote:Well you're right inasmuch that I do live in the north of Norfolk so I'll give you a tenth of a point for effort but the rest is wordly twaddle given that I wrote about predictable behavioural patterns before you went off at a tangent so I'm afraid it's going to have to be 0.1 out of 10. Must try harder - an occasional fact and sticking to the topic might help.

You posted on the forum that you lived in the North Norfolk area - indeed I've posted several times on the forum giving you up to date information about positive results in and around North Norfolk and you've never bothered to inform me otherwise.

To be fair I took you at your word and if you don't want to disclose where you live or deliberately mislead people about it, I don't blame you as it's nobody else's business than your own - I certainly haven't tried to track you down or anything so I think you are well out of order implying in your post that I made some effort to do so.  I'm certainly not the nutjob type.

Predictable behaviour patterns of the public - Brexit was a big shock to all those professional people whose job it is to KNOW how the public will act, was it not?

Predictable behaviour patterns of politicians - Parliament only today nearly had a members revolt over how the most senior Conservative politicians have been acting by basically creating Cabinet rule over the country - another big shock to those whose job it is to KNOW how politicians in Parliament ought to work!

The only predictable behaviour pattern on this and other threads is that you think you know it all - and you don't, that you can't accept ever to be wrong, and that you tell lies/post abuse to save face!!!

It's one thing not giving any personal information about yourself away - but it's just utterly pathetic to tell lies and post abuse simply to avoid acknowledging you've made a mistake that means nothing to no one else on an insignificant little football forum on the internet!

Who the fuck cares apart from yourself that you got it wrong???

I certainly don't but it if you choose to keep having a pop at me you'll get some back!

And I know how much it irritates you!

I was for a while posting every other day about Boris and the poodles, but there are now so many issues daily that I'd be accused of wearing out the same old record.....and I must admit I feel that way too now! I've been worn down by the sheer volume of errors and sly manipulations!

But I've been driven to comment on the most sinister thing which imo is this pursuit of absolute power with no scrutiny allowed.

 Attempts to prorogue parliament was one thing and now attempts to ensure that there can be no involvement of any MPs beyond ministers on vital national decision-making is another, but.....
.... I object massively to the Tories' recommendations for senior positions at OFCOM(?)  and on the BBC board (as potential chair), both loud, crass critics of our world-renowned BBC news reporting. 

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2020/sep/27/no-10-told-charles-moore-appointment-could-put-bbcs-independence-at-risk

We seem to be trying to discredit the parts of the UK which are held in the greatest esteem globally. Trump tactics must not be allowed to take place here.