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Bolton Nuts » BWFC » Wandering Minds » How is the Tory government doing?

How is the Tory government doing?

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Angry Dad
karlypants
wanderlust
okocha
xmiles
wessy
Norpig
sunlight
boltonbonce
finlaymcdanger
Ten Bobsworth
gloswhite
Sluffy
Cajunboy
BoltonTillIDie
Hip Priest
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81How is the Tory government doing? - Page 5 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? Tue Sep 29 2020, 21:09

Guest


Guest

I’d say we’ve had an absence of leadership that has meant we’ve needed to overcome more issues than we should have so far. I don’t think it’s quite anarchy in the streets yet though.

Again though you mention political point scoring on all sides, can you give any examples of that happening under Starmer?

82How is the Tory government doing? - Page 5 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? Tue Sep 29 2020, 22:03

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin

T.R.O.Y. wrote:I’d say we’ve had an absence of leadership that has meant we’ve needed to overcome more issues than we should have so far. I don’t think it’s quite anarchy in the streets yet though.

Again though you mention political point scoring on all sides, can you give any examples of that happening under Starmer?

Less under Starmer but you still get political posturing/point scoring like this below, wouldn't it have been better if there was a government of unity to deal with the national emergency comprising of Labour and Conservatives possibly SNP and Welsh assembly members too - instead trotting out a list of failures nearly all of which happened months back when the tsunami of the pandemic hit and the country simply wasn't prepared for it or even knew what and how to deal with it.

Also what point is there banging on about local authority cuts in the future - everything is on hold until we get on top of the virus irrespective of the cost or ramifications of anything else.



As for leadership, we do have it - just that it's been spectacularly bad.

Could it have been any worse under a unity government - I really don't think so, would it have been better, its hard to believe it couldn't - but it never happened, so pointless even thinking about it.

Anarchy is the word I've been using because I don't really have a better one - what I'm trying to say is that large chunks of the public have deliberately ignored the instructions of the government - which have been made into law now - and continue to do so - wilfully.

Anarchy's too strong a word, I agree, civil disobedience is too, but it really is anarchy 'lite' or civil 'deliberately not being in' obedience if you see what I mean.

People are wilfully ignoring the rules - the government rules are not being consented to by thousands/millions of its people.

I doubt we'll get rioting on the streets but we are getting deliberate shows of defiance when the pubs are being closed - hopefully it will soon be getting too cold for most people to continue to do so but they no doubt will continue their 'party' someplace else and who is going to stop them?  They aren't bothered about the virus because for the vast majority of them it won't even make them ill!

I can't blame them wanting to enjoy their life's, that's what they should be doing anyway - just don't bring the virus home to us oldies and sick!

If the government (any government) can't 'lead' their people, then they have to design other polices to achieve their aims that will be acceptable to them.

I still think we should all be in this together but clearly a coalition government won't be happening anytime soon, if at all.

We just stagger on as we are unfortunately.

As I say the key is keeping hospitals working and death rates low - if that can be maintained we don't really have much to worry about (unless it is you or your loved ones in hospital or worse).

83How is the Tory government doing? - Page 5 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? Tue Sep 29 2020, 23:37

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

sunlight wrote:How is the Tory government doing? - Page 5 DtrBfPI
Love it. Wonderful piece of film.

84How is the Tory government doing? - Page 5 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? Wed Sep 30 2020, 00:00

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

Sluffy wrote:

Nope, try reading what I wrote again, I never said that.

My point has always been you either have authority and leadership and if you don't you have disobedience/anarchy instead.

In simple terms united we stand divided we fall, if you like.

Obviously I never warned you or anybody else that the government (any government) would set out to undermine itself - how ridiculous is that - I've no idea what you have in your head that came up with that interpretation of what I've wrote???

I warned right from the start that this pandemic should have been a time for unity - a voluntary coalition government in the time of the emergency - rather than constant political point scoring and a gradual and ultimately a catastrophic erosion in public belief/obeying of the rules on a consensual basis, of the government and it's leader and prime advisor.

Mistakes were bound to be made, particularly at the start, when we and the rest of the world were very much in the dark about how best to deal with this thing with the tools at hand at the time.

It's all there at the beginning of this thread if you care to look.

What happened was very much as I predicted, political point scoring, the blame game, looking back to past mistakes rather than moving forward to future solutions, public political flag waving at failures and failings, rather than uniting to getting over them and working towards improvements and successes.

Politics - from both sides - were the cause of this - I'm not just laying the blame at Labours door for all the political point scoring/holding the government 'to account' - the Conservative leadership could (and should) have invited Labour in (particularly when Corbyn finally gave way and stood down) but didn't because of rule two of politics.

The outcome was predictable although it became a car crash over the Cummings debacle when everyone lost complete trust in the current administration - and rightly so.

So as a consequence we've got a government that no one listens too, a large chunk of the population that does as it pleases and a virus that is growing exponentially in the community as a result.

The only thing in our favour thus far is that the virus is generally manageable in terms of hospital admissions, intensive care facilities and low rates of death.

As long as that stays the same no doubt 'we' can get through this irrespective of the leadership of the government or the behaviour of the vast numbers of irresponsible people in the community.

Maybe if we had of had a coalition government things might have been the same but I doubt they could have been much worse and I believe they could well have been substantially better - but that never happened so no point in wishing it had.

Might as well stay as positive as we can and expect things to carry on as they have and manage our own individual risks and get on with our life's - screaming at Boris/Cummings isn't going to change anything now really is it?
Yes it was predictable because this is England where politicians and the people behave and react in a certain way and armed with that knowledge, things should have been better thought through but it seems little thought went into most things so far - which surprises me for a campaign that has held sway in the PR stakes to date. Totally understand your viewpoint with which I broadly agree although I do think someone needs to do something - even if it's just screaming at them - anything for damage limitation at this point.

85How is the Tory government doing? - Page 5 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? Wed Sep 30 2020, 01:24

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin

wanderlust wrote:Yes it was predictable because this is England where politicians and the people behave and react in a certain way and armed with that knowledge, things should have been better thought through but it seems little thought went into most things so far - which surprises me for a campaign that has held sway in the PR stakes to date. Totally understand your viewpoint with which I broadly agree although I do think someone needs to do something - even if it's just screaming at them - anything for damage limitation at this point.

What was predictable?

Politicians predictable?

What are you talking about???

The Brexit vote certainly wasn't predictable - although to be fair you voted for it!  Theresa May becoming PM wasn't at all predictable before Cameron's decided to hold a needless referendum.  Corbyn becoming leader of the Labour Party wasn't even remotely thought to be feasible let alone predictable - although his crushing General Election defeat to buffoon Boris was the surest thing that's happened so far this century!  How then you've come to a conclusion that things should have been 'better thought through' absolutely astounds me - half the Tory senior politicians were purged by Boris prior to his GE victory in December last year and unknowingly at the time Covid was already circulating in China by then, so who do you think was planning for what in the middle of a Tory night of the long knives taking place!???  Certainly nothing for a world pandemic just some few months later!!!

As for venting about Boris/the government on here that's certainly not leading to any sort of damage limitation in the slightest is it???

If you feel that strongly go out and do something, otherwise what is the point of being angry on here, that's going to achieve absolutely fuck all!

Did you know that your local MP Duncan Barker stood - and lost - as a UKIP candidate for Holt in the 2015 Local elections and within the space of two years change his party to Conservative,  got elected (I'm guessing by a by-election?) to the council, two years later still became its leader following the May 2019 local election and in December 2019 was elected to Parliament as your MP!

I doubt he could have achieved that by just moaning about politics on the North Norfolk Nuts forum - do you?

https://www.andrewteale.me.uk/leap/results/2015/278/
https://www.northnorfolknews.co.uk/news/duncan-baker-group-leader-of-conservative-party-at-north-norfolk-council-1-6065497
https://modgov.north-norfolk.gov.uk/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=473
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/politics/constituencies/E14000848

86How is the Tory government doing? - Page 5 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? Wed Sep 30 2020, 12:44

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

Sluffy wrote:

What was predictable?

Politicians predictable?

What are you talking about???

The Brexit vote certainly wasn't predictable - although to be fair you voted for it!  Theresa May becoming PM wasn't at all predictable before Cameron's decided to hold a needless referendum.  Corbyn becoming leader of the Labour Party wasn't even remotely thought to be feasible let alone predictable - although his crushing General Election defeat to buffoon Boris was the surest thing that's happened so far this century!  How then you've come to a conclusion that things should have been 'better thought through' absolutely astounds me - half the Tory senior politicians were purged by Boris prior to his GE victory in December last year and unknowingly at the time Covid was already circulating in China by then, so who do you think was planning for what in the middle of a Tory night of the long knives taking place!???  Certainly nothing for a world pandemic just some few months later!!!

As for venting about Boris/the government on here that's certainly not leading to any sort of damage limitation in the slightest is it???

If you feel that strongly go out and do something, otherwise what is the point of being angry on here, that's going to achieve absolutely fuck all!

Did you know that your local MP Duncan Barker stood - and lost - as a UKIP candidate for Holt in the 2015 Local elections and within the space of two years change his party to Conservative,  got elected (I'm guessing by a by-election?) to the council, two years later still became its leader following the May 2019 local election and in December 2019 was elected to Parliament as your MP!

I doubt he could have achieved that by just moaning about politics on the North Norfolk Nuts forum - do you?

https://www.andrewteale.me.uk/leap/results/2015/278/
https://www.northnorfolknews.co.uk/news/duncan-baker-group-leader-of-conservative-party-at-north-norfolk-council-1-6065497
https://modgov.north-norfolk.gov.uk/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=473
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/politics/constituencies/E14000848
Must have spent ages trawling to try to find something to support your flaky argument and you still managed to miss the point. Although you did make one yourself and then argued against it.
And FYI I live in Broadland as it happens so you'd better go back and start again :rofl:

87How is the Tory government doing? - Page 5 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? Wed Sep 30 2020, 13:01

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin

wanderlust wrote:Must have spent ages trawling to try to find something to support your flaky argument and you still managed to miss the point. Although you did make one yourself and then argued against it.
And FYI I live in Broadland as it happens so you'd better go back and start again :rofl:

It really takes no time at all to google who is the MP for North Norfolk - as you said that's where you lived - and then google his name and all the rest simply popped out.

Tbh it's second nature for me to do such things, it's always been about knowledge is power (scientia potentia est) in my career, it's a great deal easier to do so now then when I started out doing my research at the reference library in town all those years back!

Maybe you should try it sometimes - but then again you think you know it all, already!

Brexit predictable, Corbyn to be leader of the Labour Party, predictable, May to be PM predictable - yeah right!

You did vote for Brexit though to be fair.

Well done, hope you're pleased with your decision still!

:rofl:

88How is the Tory government doing? - Page 5 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? Wed Sep 30 2020, 14:46

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

Sluffy wrote:

It really takes no time at all to google who is the MP for North Norfolk - as you said that's where you lived - and then google his name and all the rest simply popped out.

Tbh it's second nature for me to do such things, it's always been about knowledge is power (scientia potentia est) in my career, it's a great deal easier to do so now then when I started out doing my research at the reference library in town all those years back!

Maybe you should try it sometimes - but then again you think you know it all, already!

Brexit predictable, Corbyn to be leader of the Labour Party, predictable, May to be PM predictable - yeah right!

You did vote for Brexit though to be fair.

Well done, hope you're pleased with your decision still!
Well you're right inasmuch that I do live in the north of Norfolk so I'll give you a tenth of a point for effort but the rest is wordly twaddle given that I wrote about predictable behavioural patterns before you went off at a tangent so I'm afraid it's going to have to be 0.1 out of 10. Must try harder - an occasional fact and sticking to the topic might help.
:nopoints:

89How is the Tory government doing? - Page 5 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? Wed Sep 30 2020, 16:07

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin

wanderlust wrote:Well you're right inasmuch that I do live in the north of Norfolk so I'll give you a tenth of a point for effort but the rest is wordly twaddle given that I wrote about predictable behavioural patterns before you went off at a tangent so I'm afraid it's going to have to be 0.1 out of 10. Must try harder - an occasional fact and sticking to the topic might help.
:nopoints:

You posted on the forum that you lived in the North Norfolk area - indeed I've posted several times on the forum giving you up to date information about positive results in and around North Norfolk and you've never bothered to inform me otherwise.

To be fair I took you at your word and if you don't want to disclose where you live or deliberately mislead people about it, I don't blame you as it's nobody else's business than your own - I certainly haven't tried to track you down or anything so I think you are well out of order implying in your post that I made some effort to do so.  I'm certainly not the nutjob type.

Predictable behaviour patterns of the public - Brexit was a big shock to all those professional people whose job it is to KNOW how the public will act, was it not?

Predictable behaviour patterns of politicians - Parliament only today nearly had a members revolt over how the most senior Conservative politicians have been acting by basically creating Cabinet rule over the country - another big shock to those whose job it is to KNOW how politicians in Parliament ought to work!

The only predictable behaviour pattern on this and other threads is that you think you know it all - and you don't, that you can't accept ever to be wrong, and that you tell lies/post abuse to save face!!!

It's one thing not giving any personal information about yourself away - but it's just utterly pathetic to tell lies and post abuse simply to avoid acknowledging you've made a mistake that means nothing to no one else on an insignificant little football forum on the internet!

Who the fuck cares apart from yourself that you got it wrong???

I certainly don't but it if you choose to keep having a pop at me you'll get some back!

And I know how much it irritates you!

Very Happy

90How is the Tory government doing? - Page 5 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? Wed Sep 30 2020, 16:24

okocha

okocha
El Hadji Diouf
El Hadji Diouf

I was for a while posting every other day about Boris and the poodles, but there are now so many issues daily that I'd be accused of wearing out the same old record.....and I must admit I feel that way too now! I've been worn down by the sheer volume of errors and sly manipulations!

But I've been driven to comment on the most sinister thing which imo is this pursuit of absolute power with no scrutiny allowed.

 Attempts to prorogue parliament was one thing and now attempts to ensure that there can be no involvement of any MPs beyond ministers on vital national decision-making is another, but.....
.... I object massively to the Tories' recommendations for senior positions at OFCOM(?)  and on the BBC board (as potential chair), both loud, crass critics of our world-renowned BBC news reporting. 

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2020/sep/27/no-10-told-charles-moore-appointment-could-put-bbcs-independence-at-risk

We seem to be trying to discredit the parts of the UK which are held in the greatest esteem globally. Trump tactics must not be allowed to take place here.

91How is the Tory government doing? - Page 5 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? Wed Sep 30 2020, 16:40

okocha

okocha
El Hadji Diouf
El Hadji Diouf

 When the (Boltonian) speaker is saying you have shown nothing but contempt for parliament, it shows how bad things truly are.

The imminent press conference (leaked to friendly reporters and not discussed, as usual) will involve more restrictions to cover the fact he has no handle on track and trace.

92How is the Tory government doing? - Page 5 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? Wed Sep 30 2020, 16:56

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

okocha wrote:I was for a while posting every other day about Boris and the poodles, but there are now so many issues daily that I'd be accused of wearing out the same old record.....and I must admit I feel that way too now! I've been worn down by the sheer volume of errors and sly manipulations!

But I've been driven to comment on the most sinister thing which imo is this pursuit of absolute power with no scrutiny allowed.

 Attempts to prorogue parliament was one thing and now attempts to ensure that there can be no involvement of any MPs beyond ministers on vital national decision-making is another, but.....
.... I object massively to the Tories' recommendations for senior positions at OFCOM(?)  and on the BBC board (as potential chair), both loud, crass critics of our world-renowned BBC news reporting. 

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2020/sep/27/no-10-told-charles-moore-appointment-could-put-bbcs-independence-at-risk

We seem to be trying to discredit the parts of the UK which are held in the greatest esteem globally. Trump tactics must not be allowed to take place here.
The hand of Murdoch is all over this government.

93How is the Tory government doing? - Page 5 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? Wed Sep 30 2020, 17:29

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

94How is the Tory government doing? - Page 5 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? Thu Oct 01 2020, 11:39

okocha

okocha
El Hadji Diouf
El Hadji Diouf

Latest from the BBC website:


The EU has begun legal proceedings against the UK after it refused to ditch plans to override sections of its Brexit divorce deal.


An EU deadline for the government to remove sections of the Internal Market Bill passed on Wednesday.


The "letter of formal notice" could eventually lead to a court case against the UK at the European Court of Justice, the EU's top court.

95How is the Tory government doing? - Page 5 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? Thu Oct 01 2020, 12:04

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin

How is the Tory government doing? - Page 5 1*CWpY7geBh2nXYLrPDaGFCQ

::FU::






I'm only joking before anyone kicks off about it!!!

Very Happy

96How is the Tory government doing? - Page 5 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? Thu Oct 01 2020, 15:16

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

London used to be the financial capital of the world and the sector has contributed 7% of our total GDP but as the Brexit business exit continues, this week 7500 finance jobs and £1.2 TRILLION of assets moved to the EU. Ooops.

97How is the Tory government doing? - Page 5 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? Thu Oct 01 2020, 15:23

Guest


Guest

Finally starting to see some Brexit benefits as the government plan what to do with Asylum seekers. 

The (genuine) suggestions so far include:

- Flying them 4,000 miles to Ascension Island and building a facility for them there
- Holding them on a disused ferry offshore
- Using a wave machine to rock the boats sufficiently enough for them to return back to France

..dunno..

98How is the Tory government doing? - Page 5 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? Thu Oct 01 2020, 16:06

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

This is worrying.
I've mentioned the German Kurzarbeit (short time work) scheme before in the context of Sunak's furlough scheme and after criticism Sunak promised something similar to the Kurzarbeit programme but unfortunately he's fallen way short and put huge costs on employers.
Kurzarbeit has been in place for years and is a tried and tested way of retaining jobs and skills so why try to reinvent the wheel - especially as it's been proven to work?

Unfortunately Sunak has come up with a formula that makes it cheaper for employers to sack one employee than to retain two.

Basically it's a financial incentive to sack people.

How dumb is that?

99How is the Tory government doing? - Page 5 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? Thu Oct 01 2020, 16:10

sunlight

sunlight
Andy Walker
Andy Walker

What the Tories do, everytime they get in, is hurt the working class as much as they can, and help the wealthy. This sort of thing isnt incompetence its possibly deliberate.
Everytime the working class starts doing ok they put a stop to it.

100How is the Tory government doing? - Page 5 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? Thu Oct 01 2020, 16:47

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

Things should improve next week. Parliament is having a holiday so there'll be no discussion of the Tory back bench revolt, the £ plummeting, being sued by the EU or the little matters of Covid and Brexshit.

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