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Bolton Nuts » BWFC » Bolton Wanderers Banter » Will you boo if Bolton Players take the knee

Will you boo if Bolton Players take the knee

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bryan458
Ten Bobsworth
Sluffy
T.R.O.Y.
luckyPeterpiper
boltonbonce
Whitesince63
Norpig
wanderlust
finlaymcdanger
okocha
15 posters

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okocha

okocha
El Hadji Diouf
El Hadji Diouf
Will any of our "fans" boo if our players take the knee?

finlaymcdanger

finlaymcdanger
El Hadji Diouf
El Hadji Diouf
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:Will any of our "fans" boo if our players take the knee?
Sadly, I would imagine so.

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:Will any of our "fans" boo if our players take the knee?
That's like asking what is the socio-political make up of a typical English town.
One thing is for sure - a football club isn't the answer to resolving societal issues.

On another note, Evatt is apparently anticipating quite a few more signings.

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
(apart from the Scottish winger)

Norpig

Norpig
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:Will any of our "fans" boo if our players take the knee?
 Anyone who boo's near me will be getting told to shut it!

Whitesince63


Tony Kelly
Tony Kelly
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
 Anyone who boo's near me will be getting told to shut it!

I’ll just boo louder then Norpig. 💥

Norpig

Norpig
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:

I’ll just boo louder then Norpig. 💥
Then you'll get whatever is left of my pie thrown in your direction  Very Happy

boltonbonce

boltonbonce
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Then you'll get whatever is left of my pie thrown in your direction  Very Happy
I'll chuck a vegan roll, that'll teach 'em. I'm pretty sure I can guess where most of the boo boys might be sitting.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Whitesince63


Tony Kelly
Tony Kelly
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Then you'll get whatever is left of my pie thrown in your direction  Very Happy

Make sure it’s meat and potato Norpig, I do get a bit peckish 🥟

Norpig

Norpig
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:

Make sure it’s meat and potato Norpig, I do get a bit peckish 🥟
 That's the one i always go for so you should be ok  Very Happy

luckyPeterpiper

luckyPeterpiper
Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo
While I completely agree with the sentiment behind taking the knee and believe it should continue at least through the Euros I feel it's a distraction from the very real battle that still needs to be fought. If we are to truly put an end to bigotry in both wider society and sport then it requires an enormous change of attitude not just on the surface but within the minds of everyone.

Politicians can spout platitudes, the twitter crowd can 'cancel' and sportsmen and women can speak out against the evil but that won't make a difference to those unwilling to hear what's being said. Personally I believe that if we're ever going to overcome the true problems it has to start with education, a real and honest look at where we are now and how we got here.

Toppling statues, while at least briefly satisfying won't do the job nor will legislation no matter how well meaning. You can't legislate what's in a peron's heart and mind, you have to show them they're wrong and more importantly how to put themselves on the right track.

It won't happen overnight but it can and must be done. I also feel we do need to congratulate ourselves for how far we've already come. Yes, there is a long way to go and sometimes it's easy to say we're not good enough and haven't done enough but those of us over 40 will remember when Viv Anderson was picked for England and when Cyril Regis was sent a bullet in the post by a mindless moron threatening to kneecap him if he took to the field in an England shirt. I remember seeing black players having bananas thrown at them and the vile sound of monkey chants coming from the stands which people somehow said was 'just part of the game'. So let's not forget that while we haven't yet finished the job we are at least on the right road and we need to remember that we have done some good if only to encourage us to do more.

Whitesince63


Tony Kelly
Tony Kelly
A very noble post Peter but unfortunately the lunatics have taken over the asylum as far as education is concerned. With all the de-platforming and refusal to listen to the other side, how are you going to change opinion? Like you and I suspect every other rational, reasonable person on this site, we want to see the back of racism but I’m afraid you have to consider that there are individuals and organisations on the black side whose intention is to stir up tensions, BLM being one, which is principally why I detest the fact that the PL and players have been so taken in by them, adding their logo to shirts and continuing the take the knee gesture. I’d be 100% behind an anti racist push but not one that is so obviously politically based and in my view actually racist the other way, so many players not just taking the knee but raising the arm in a black power signal. 

It’s now got to the point I believe, where it’s actually working against itself and needs to be replaced with something without political bias. I really do fear for the Euros because the booing at football stadiums, which will continue I believe, will be replicated in pubs and bars and flushed with drink is going to lead to violence. I blame The football authorities and Southgate himself after his recent show of ignorance and intransigence, for any trouble arising because instead of understanding that the booing isn’t racist but a signal that this has gone far enough and it needs to stop, they’ve just chosen to put it down to fans who are thick and racially unaware.

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Interesting perspective on League 1 transfers from Karl Robinson [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

T.R.O.Y.


Andy Walker
Andy Walker
Whitesince63 - you mention you’d be right behind an anti-racism push. What sort of push is it you would be behind?

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:A very noble post Peter but unfortunately the lunatics have taken over the asylum as far as education is concerned. With all the de-platforming and refusal to listen to the other side, how are you going to change opinion? Like you and I suspect every other rational, reasonable person on this site, we want to see the back of racism but I’m afraid you have to consider that there are individuals and organisations on the black side whose intention is to stir up tensions, BLM being one, which is principally why I detest the fact that the PL and players have been so taken in by them, adding their logo to shirts and continuing the take the knee gesture. I’d be 100% behind an anti racist push but not one that is so obviously politically based and in my view actually racist the other way, so many players not just taking the knee but raising the arm in a black power signal. 

It’s now got to the point I believe, where it’s actually working against itself and needs to be replaced with something without political bias. I really do fear for the Euros because the booing at football stadiums, which will continue I believe, will be replicated in pubs and bars and flushed with drink is going to lead to violence. I blame The football authorities and Southgate himself after his recent show of ignorance and intransigence, for any trouble arising because instead of understanding that the booing isn’t racist but a signal that this has gone far enough and it needs to stop, they’ve just chosen to put it down to fans who are thick and racially unaware.
I know that there are right wing groups attempting to discredit BLM but so far I've seen no actual evidence that they are trying to "stir tensions up" - just hearsay and politically motivated rhetoric.
But even if they are - and that would be in America, not here - it's irrelevant as the vast majority of British people see footballers taking the knee as a symbol of the movement to stop racial abuse - which obviously does exist and is proven.

And if that's what it means to the people, it's obvious that it hasn't gone anywhere near far enough because there is still a societal problem that needs to be resolved.

It's entirely understandable that those people booing are perceived as ignorant/racist or both given that they have nothing to lose by supporting the movement so they must have another motivation.

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:A very noble post Peter but unfortunately the lunatics have taken over the asylum as far as education is concerned. With all the de-platforming and refusal to listen to the other side, how are you going to change opinion? Like you and I suspect every other rational, reasonable person on this site, we want to see the back of racism but I’m afraid you have to consider that there are individuals and organisations on the black side whose intention is to stir up tensions, BLM being one, which is principally why I detest the fact that the PL and players have been so taken in by them, adding their logo to shirts and continuing the take the knee gesture. I’d be 100% behind an anti racist push but not one that is so obviously politically based and in my view actually racist the other way, so many players not just taking the knee but raising the arm in a black power signal. 

It’s now got to the point I believe, where it’s actually working against itself and needs to be replaced with something without political bias. I really do fear for the Euros because the booing at football stadiums, which will continue I believe, will be replicated in pubs and bars and flushed with drink is going to lead to violence. I blame The football authorities and Southgate himself after his recent show of ignorance and intransigence, for any trouble arising because instead of understanding that the booing isn’t racist but a signal that this has gone far enough and it needs to stop, they’ve just chosen to put it down to fans who are thick and racially unaware.
I know that there are right wing groups attempting to discredit BLM but so far I've seen no actual evidence that they are trying to "stir tensions up" - just hearsay and politically motivated rhetoric.
But even if they are - and that would be in America, not here - it's irrelevant as the vast majority of British people see footballers taking the knee as a symbol of the movement to stop racial abuse - which obviously does exist and is proven.

And if that's what it means to the people, it's obvious that it hasn't gone anywhere near far enough because there is still a societal problem that needs to be resolved.

It's entirely understandable that those people booing are perceived as ignorant/racist or both given that they have nothing to lose by supporting the movement so they must have another motivation.

Wilfred Zaha doesn't support the movement in terms of taking the knee, is he ignorant/racist or both too...?

My point being that just because someone doesn't agree with it doesn't mean they have another motivation.

Some like Wilf, 63 and myself just believe the gesture has lost all meaning and it is just being done by many because everyone else is doing it and they don't want to be seen as racist by not doing it too!

I don't doubt there are a few taking the knee who are racist anyway - just because they take the knee doesn't mean they believe in it does it?

Ten Bobsworth


El Hadji Diouf
El Hadji Diouf
Why can't we have a gesture of the month?
Homeless people matter
Child grooming matters
Mental health matters
Alcoholism matters
Gambling addiction matters
Tax dodging matters
Education matters
Old folk matter
Young folk matter
Middle aged folk matter
Womens safety matters
Saving the planet matters

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:

Wilfred Zaha doesn't support the movement in terms of taking the knee, is he ignorant/racist or both too...?

My point being that just because someone doesn't agree with it doesn't mean they have another motivation.

Some like Wilf, 63 and myself just believe the gesture has lost all meaning and it is just being done by many because everyone else is doing it and they don't want to be seen as racist by not doing it too!

I don't doubt there are a few taking the knee who are racist anyway - just because they take the knee doesn't mean they believe in it does it?
You're failing to differentiate between not participating and actively deprecating.
It's true some people don't believe it will work or that it's the best way to achieve the objective but they don't boo others who participate.
Why boo?
Zaha doesn't.



Last edited by wanderlust on Thu Jun 10 2021, 23:15; edited 2 times in total

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:Why can't we have a gesture of the month?
Homeless people matter
Child grooming matters
Mental health matters
Alcoholism matters
Gambling addiction matters
Tax dodging matters
Education matters
Old folk matter
Young folk matter
Middle aged folk matter
Womens safety matters
Saving the planet matters
Pus matters.

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:

Wilfred Zaha doesn't support the movement in terms of taking the knee, is he ignorant/racist or both too...?

My point being that just because someone doesn't agree with it doesn't mean they have another motivation.

Some like Wilf, 63 and myself just believe the gesture has lost all meaning and it is just being done by many because everyone else is doing it and they don't want to be seen as racist by not doing it too!

I don't doubt there are a few taking the knee who are racist anyway - just because they take the knee doesn't mean they believe in it does it?

You're failing to differentiate between not participating and actively deprecating.
It's true some people don't believe it will work or that it's the best way to achieve the objective but they don't boo others who participate.
Why boo?
Zaha doesn't.

Actually I am differentiating, if you remember I posted above I wasn't a boo-er.

Your post I responded too said and I paraphrase if they don't support the movement, which I take you to mean taking the knee for BLM then they have another 'motivation' which I suspect is your way of implying racism.

My point being you can be booing the gesture as being an empty one and not be booing it simply as being a racist.

Fwiw I find it hard to believe any racist will stop being so because a bunch of footballers go through a 'ritual' before a match.

Seems Wilf probably thinks the same way too.

Do you think taking the knee for evermore will end racism?

Do you think stopping taking the knee will lead to more racism?

If it is neither and they've been doing it for a year or more now, then what exactly is the point of continuing to do so?

If people haven't got the message and understood it by now then they never will.

Which is the point Zaha has made - it has lost its meaning.

okocha

okocha
El Hadji Diouf
El Hadji Diouf
I'd love it if politics could be kept out of sport.  Unfortunately, there are groups of people in most countries who don't/won't let that happen, whether that's by booing black players, making monkey chants or throwing bananas. Their actions/voices keep politics in sport.

Obviously, decent, right-minded folk can't let racists win, so have to be clearly visible across the globe standing (or kneeling)  for what's right for however long it takes. Keep it in the spotlight, even when the light is dimmed by ritual repetition. 

It must be horrendous to be targeted like Sterling or Rashford, for example, but it can't just be left to victims of abuse to make  the point. Doing nothing condones appalling behaviour. To avoid misinterpretation, perhaps consider changing the slogan to "All lives matter"??? Strengthen laws?? Educate the police?

Those who feel there are equally important issues to stand up for must fight for them too....but not at the expense of allowing racism to continue.

bryan458

bryan458
Tony Kelly
Tony Kelly
Yea !!!! What happened to Transfer rumours????? ..dunno..

T.R.O.Y.


Andy Walker
Andy Walker
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:Whitesince63 - you mention you’d be right behind an anti-racism push. What sort of push is it you would be behind?

Not the thread, but would quite like an answer to this one.

Whitesince63


Tony Kelly
Tony Kelly
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
I know that there are right wing groups attempting to discredit BLM but so far I've seen no actual evidence that they are trying to "stir tensions up" - just hearsay and politically motivated rhetoric.
But even if they are - and that would be in America, not here - it's irrelevant as the vast majority of British people see footballers taking the knee as a symbol of the movement to stop racial abuse - which obviously does exist and is proven.

And if that's what it means to the people, it's obvious that it hasn't gone anywhere near far enough because there is still a societal problem that needs to be resolved.

It's entirely understandable that those people booing are perceived as ignorant/racist or both given that they have nothing to lose by supporting the movement so they must have another motivation.

Sadly wander, just like those in football you’re completely missing the point. I also think you show a huge amount of naivety if you think there are only black activist groups in the US and not here. This was and largely still is, just about the most unracist country you could live in but is becoming more and more divided, principally because of the actions of groups like BLM and yet were supposed to sit at football matches watching players misguidedly taking part in a gesture that reeks of racism in itself. 

You’re response basically infers that I am a racist because I don’t support taking the knee and showing my disapproval of it and that others who think likewise must be too. As I said at the start, you are completely missing the point and sadly falling into the “agree with me or you’re wrong” camp rather than accepting that people have differing opinions. That they choose to show that opinion by booing does not make them against the principle, just against an obvious gesture considered by many as racist in itself, as is the Black Lives Matter mantra we’re supposed to just accept. What about White lives, brown lives and other colours in between? Ten Bobsworth point about all things that matter is a good one but where is the gesture for any of those. It’s dividing opinion, look at us on here, none of us racist but having to defend our opinion as if we are. Support anti racism, yes definitely but not this way.

T.R.O.Y.


Andy Walker
Andy Walker
Only repeating the question as you’ve said it again, what is your method for supporting anti racism 63?

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:Only repeating the question as you’ve said it again, what is your method for supporting anti racism 63?

Probably in his deeds, thoughts and actions in everyday life like I and millions of others do.

I think we are called the silent majority because we do it in real life than worry about being seeing to do it in gestures like taking the knee or marching around London.

What's your method of supporting anti racism?

T.R.O.Y.


Andy Walker
Andy Walker
My method is leaving it to those who suffer racism to define the solution.

The England team say taking the knee is how they want to do that, why do you know better?

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:My method is leaving it to those who suffer racism to define the solution.

The England team say taking the knee is how they want to do that, why do you know better?

I never said I did did I?

Seems you are putting words in my mouth yet again...

Has Wilfred Zaha not suffered racism because he clearly believes taking the knee is wrong - do you know better than him?

Do the England team believe Zaha is wrong?  Does the England manager and captain (both white) know more about suffering racism than Zaha?  Are they more knowledgeable about it than him?

Zaha's got an opinion on it, the England team have an opinion on it - they can't both be right can they?

So it isn't as simple as those who suffer racism to define the solution is it because not everyone defines it in the same way.

The only way you can beat racism is by personal example, if enough people do so it starts to become the norm in society and behaviour starts to change.

If you knew me you would know I'm the last person to be racist - but it hasn't stopped one or two on here making out that I am.  63 has got his views on racism, it doesn't coincide with yours or Wanderlust's - that's all - if his view that taking a knee is racist in itself then explain to him why you believe it not to be.

I think the gesture has lost all meaning - and let's be honest it is borrowed from America and we do have a different culture and race relationship than they do, so maybe he has a point, maybe we need our own gestures or symbolism of being anti racist together rather than the Americanised version of it linked with their form of activism and politics behind it?

At the end of the day treating people with respect and as equals is what it is all about - shame people can't do that normally - but I live amongst people who can't even be arsed wearing a face mask at the local shop when the area is being surged tested door to door - so much for their respect to others!

It is what it is, you have goodness in your heart or you don't.  That's put into you as a child.  If it isn't then they can't teach it to their children and the cycle goes on.

I'll do my little bit in my own way, no doubt 63 is doing his in his way too, so whether we agree or disagree with taking a knee before a football match is utterly meaningless to us - and according to Wilf - even many of the players too!

T.R.O.Y.


Andy Walker
Andy Walker
And that’s fine - I agree with you, I don’t think you could or should force people to take part in these gestures or to believe they have meaning. It’s entirely up to each individual and that needs to be respected.

That goes both ways though, the boo boys just need to show a bit of respect and let the players get on with it. It’s hardly being forced down their throats watching 11 men kneel down for a few seconds.

Not saying either of you would boo by the way!

Whitesince63


Tony Kelly
Tony Kelly
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:And that’s fine - I agree with you, I don’t think you could or should force people to take part in these gestures or to believe they have meaning. It’s entirely up to each individual and that needs to be respected.

That goes both ways though, the boo boys just need to show a bit of respect and let the players get on with it. It’s hardly being forced down their throats watching 11 men kneel down for a few seconds.

Not saying either of you would boo by the way!

Well I will say it then TROY, yes I would boo because it seems to be the only way we have of making our voice heard amongst a woke, myopic club. As Sluffy says, we all display our views against racism in our own way and don’t need to have to join some group think to practise it. In my opinion, this gesture doesn’t in any way represent anti racism, quite the opposite in fact. I’d like a population that is totally colour blind, it shouldn’t make any difference to how you proceed in life and indeed to most people it doesn’t. That a group of multi millionaire footballers claim there’s systemic racism here is frankly preposterous. If they were a bunch of penniless urchins maybe I could understand it. 

I’m sure there are instances of people not getting jobs because they’re black but also because they’re women, have tattoos or a myriad of other reasons but if you’re black it’s always because your racist. It’s too easy a card to use and taking the knee is to me just another stunt except that this one is linked to a disruptive and obviously racist group and the numptys at the top of our game, ignore the no politics ruling and actually display the BLM badge on shirts. Thankfully, more and more in the game are seeing through this. The Scotland team have collectively decided they will not take the knee, as have several other Eastern European clubs. If they’re racist maybe you should boo them.

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