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Bolton Nuts » BWFC » Wandering Minds » How is the Tory government doing?

How is the Tory government doing?

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boltonbonce
Hipster_Nebula
Whitesince63
Hipster_nebula1
karlypants
wanderlust
Sluffy
Natasha Whittam
Norpig
luckyPeterpiper
Cajunboy
Hip Priest
okocha
finlaymcdanger
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481How is the Tory government doing? - Page 25 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? Tue Jan 25 2022, 12:51

Whitesince63


Andy Walker
Andy Walker

T.R.O.Y. wrote:The Met now investigating having been referred by Sue Gray... doesn't look great.

I’m not sure the Met getting involved changes much Troy, other than delaying a resolution from Sue Grays report. It may mean the organisers and even some attendees may well be prosecuted but I still doubt one will be Boris. I say that because it’s both his place of work and his home, so he’s obviously going to be there. Unless he himself actually can be proved to have organised the events, then I don’t see why the outcome would be any more damaging than the results of the Gray report.

Look, I’m not defending these actions, they’re idiots and deserve to be punished but we elect a government to run the country and however distasteful these disclosures are we have a crisis on the Ukraine border, energy costs and a damaging NI rise, all of which affect every one of us. How long does it really take for Sue Gray to deliver a verdict? Does she really have to investigate every issue. Surely take the most damaging to Boris, investigate that fully and if he’s guilty then deliver that then we can get on.

Clearly there is a concerted plan to ‘“Get Boris” by his enemies and the media. To me Labour, whilst obviously having to acknowledge Partygate have fallen into the trap of ignoring serious matters to concentrate on crucifying BoJo and I think it will backfire on them. One thing people in this country don’t like is kicking somebody when they’re down and Labours continual attacking of Boris whilst ignoring all the serious issues could be counter productive. Starmer might have been better letting others fight that fight whilst he kept attention on governmental matters. It once again convinces me that Starmer would be a failure if ever elected PM. Thankfully he won’t.

482How is the Tory government doing? - Page 25 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? Tue Jan 25 2022, 13:18

Guest


Guest

Latest reports I've read suggest the Met have not requested Gray's report is delayed and actually the request has come from Downing Street.

I think you blaming the media, Labour and the public for this distraction is a bit much - it's time to face up to the fact you have a serial liar leading your party and we'd be better off without him. This is a mess entirely of his own making.

483How is the Tory government doing? - Page 25 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? Tue Jan 25 2022, 13:37

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin

T.R.O.Y. wrote:The Met now investigating having been referred by Sue Gray... doesn't look great.

Also shows there was never a thought of Gray undertaking a cover up OR Civil Servants doing what their 'masters' told them to to do as some clearly and delusionally believe on here...

wanderlust wrote:The clue is in the job title Civil Servants.

Civil servants are gophers - the real power and the actual decision-making lies with the politicians...

Remember - "Yes Minister" was a comedy programme :rofl: - not reality.

:facepalm:

Anyway back in the real world...



'Deep concern'

Dame Cressida said on Tuesday that she understood the "deep public concern" about the allegations of parties inside No 10, along with the "huge sacrifices" the public had made during the pandemic.

And she said it would "not normally be a proportionate use of time" for the force to investigate rule breaches as far back as two years, but police would look at allegations that "appeared to be the most serious and flagrant breach" of regulations.

She outlined the guidelines on when allegations of past breaches would be investigated, saying the factors the police considered were: Whether there was evidence that those involved "knew, or ought to have known that what they were doing was an offence", where not investigating "would significantly undermine the legitimacy of the law", and "where there was little ambiguity around the absence of any reasonable defence".

Dame Cressida said while the force would not give "a running commentary" on the case, they would provide updates at "significant points".

How is the Tory government doing? - Page 25 _116569418_adamfleming_21_tr-nc

The first thing is to have a sense of proportion.

When you hear the words, "Met Police, investigation, criminal, Downing Street", that sounds incredibly dramatic.

This is a big development in this story, but we are talking about the potential issuing of fixed penalty notices - fines - not about big criminal trials or people going to prison.

So it is important to keep that sense of perspective.

There are also lots of things we don't know about this police investigation.

We don't know how many of these high-profile parties are now being investigated and crucially we don't know if they were parties attended by the prime minister.

We also don't know if the prime minister is in the frame for being interviewed by the police.

So, lots of unanswered questions, but it means this row is going to rumble on at a much higher volume for a lot longer.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-60123850

484How is the Tory government doing? - Page 25 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? Tue Jan 25 2022, 13:39

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin

T.R.O.Y. wrote:Latest reports I've read suggest the Met have not requested Gray's report is delayed and actually the request has come from Downing Street.

I think you blaming the media, Labour and the public for this distraction is a bit much - it's time to face up to the fact you have a serial liar leading your party and we'd be better off without him. This is a mess entirely of his own making.

Parts of Sue Gray's report into parties will be delayed while the Met investigates


Posted at 13:04
Parts of Gray inquiry can still be published - No 10

Away from the Urgent Question in the House of Commons, we're just getting lines from Downing Street's briefing to journalists.

No 10 says Boris Johnson does not believe he has broken the law amid the Met Police probe into allegations of parties in Downing Street.

The PM's official spokesman says anyone required to would be expected to cooperate fully with the investigation.

The spokesman also confirms that parts of the inquiry led by senior civil servant Sue Gray will not be published until after the police investigation is completed.

But the spokesman says the parts of the probe which are not being investigated by police can still be published.

The spokesman insists: "We want what is able to be concluded to be made public as soon as possible."

He adds that the PM was informed before this morning's cabinet meeting that the Met was launching a probe – but didn't tell cabinet during their weekly meeting.

The spokesman insists Johnson did not want to "pre-empt" the Met announcement.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-60122893


I find the last bit interesting.

What it is really saying is that Boris didn't tell the Cabinet because he would know that the story would be leaked in advance if he had - which suggests to me that there is more than a few in attendance who want to see him go and probably have eyes on the top job for themselves!

485How is the Tory government doing? - Page 25 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? Tue Jan 25 2022, 14:11

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin

Posted at 13:02

How bad could it get? Here's the worst case scenario

Dominic Casciani

Home and Legal Correspondent

It's for the police to work out what they think is important to their investigation - taking into account what is necessary and proportionate in the circumstances.

If the Metropolitan Police find evidence of wrongdoing at Downing Street, the politics of that will be inevitably more significant than the financial impact of any fixed penalty tickets they dish out.

But if officers were to find that their investigation had been deliberately hindered in some way or another - perhaps by the destruction or concealing of information relating to alleged parties - that could lead to an investigation into perverting the course of justice.

That's the very serious crime of getting in the way of the truth - and it hangs over every investigation.

And back in 2013 the former cabinet minister Chris Huhne and his ex-wife were jailed for exactly this crime when they hid the facts about a speeding offence.



I suspect there may well be something in this and became the point at which the police had to get involved.

If Gray or the police find hard evidence this happened we may well see someone in court - maybe even jailed!

486How is the Tory government doing? - Page 25 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? Tue Jan 25 2022, 16:21

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

Imagine Sue Gray's face when she finally types "The End" ...and then somebody tells her about Boris's birthday bash.::mad::  :suicide:

Imagine Boris claiming he was only singing "Happy Birthday To Me" so he knew long to wash his hands for.   :birthday:   ..dunno..   :clap:

Imagine Boris washing his hands of Sue Gray's report by calling the Met in  study    scratch    :cop:

Imagine how pissed they'll get at Boris's leaving do   :drinks:   :drink:    :sick: :lazy:

487How is the Tory government doing? - Page 25 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? Tue Jan 25 2022, 17:03

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

Behind Enemy Lines.....

 


Blojo22 is furious:

488How is the Tory government doing? - Page 25 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? Tue Jan 25 2022, 17:45

Whitesince63


Andy Walker
Andy Walker

Do we really need to wait for Sue Grays report? What’s it going to tell us that we don’t already know, other than who actually organised the get togethers and those who attended? Boris has already accepted and apologised, what more can he do. In fact, it wouldn’t surprise me if it exonerates him! It’s his home as well as his office, it’s even his garden so how can he be pilloried for being present at some? We know it technically broke the rules but so what? People are interested in serious matters now and are increasingly getting tired of this issue which is quickly becoming counter productive. 

If Boris wants to survive he will survive and if there is a vote of confidence, he’ll win it easily even if it’s because there is no alternative and MP’s know it. It’s speculated that the report may be out tonight and we won’t have to wait for the police actions to decide Boris’ fate. For all those hypocrites like the labour MP’s, SNP MP’s and scum broadcasters like Kaye Burley who have also broken Covid rules, to dare to criticise BoJo makes me sick. Honestly, how many people, including MP’s, footballers, media, film and tv personalities, who we already know have broken the rules, can put their hands up and say they haven’t? Fortunately the huge majority know they themselves have and once it’s out of the headlines will accept that and vote for Boris again. Obviously some people directly affected won’t but still accept there are much more serious matters ahead of us.

489How is the Tory government doing? - Page 25 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? Tue Jan 25 2022, 18:08

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin

No mate, I don't think the police involvement is to nail Boris, I reckon there is something in the allegations that there have been an attempted cover up - delete pictures and messages taken during the parties is being claimed for instance.

Organising and being at a party is one thing - it is a trivial matter in the scheme of things really if it was in respect of the person who lives next door to me or you say - but in this case we have the PM involved (directly or not) and the cover up (if there is one) is much more serious than the offence at being there in the first place*.

It's up to people to view Johnson on his judgement, honesty and integrity if he was partying or not - but covering up if there were any parties at all is deliberately perverting the course of justice and carries a higher tariff than being in a lockdown party per se.

I reckon someone will be prosecuted if this really did happen - and interesting to see on whose authority they acted upon...!!!


* Under the Coronavirus Act, Covid breaches are classified as summary offences.
This means they do not come with prison sentences, but are punishable by fines.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-60124162

Whereas perverting the course of justice IS a custodial offence - see Mr and Mrs Chris Huhne (Lib Dem)
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-22506878

490How is the Tory government doing? - Page 25 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? Tue Jan 25 2022, 23:00

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin

Ros Atkins on... Investigating Number 10 parties

Police are investigating multiple events at Downing Street to see if Covid rules were broken.

Ros Atkins examines how we got to this point.

491How is the Tory government doing? - Page 25 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? Wed Jan 26 2022, 00:16

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

Nobody seems to be mentioning the government's disastrous handling of the Covid grant/business recovery loan scheme that has cost the taxpayer £ billions.

Apparently there are over 2100 reported fraud cases of businesses - some of whom weren't even trading - being given grants and loans without any background checks (in the rush to be seen to be doing the right thing)

And to make things worse just 2 fraud detection officers have been appointed - who can manage a total of 50 cases per annum.


This government has been handing out up to £2million of taxpayers money per business.

Compare that with the government's massive investment in benefit fraud detection - 100s of officers  and a "bust your neighbour" hotline - which has in total recouped a paltry £26 million in 2 years.

I know benefit fraud detection is a popular vote winner especially for right wing voters, but this incompetence makes no financial sense whatsoever - when just 13 of the 2100 reported grant fraudsters could have stolen more of the taxpayers money than the entire population of Britain has through benefit fraud.

Idiots.

492How is the Tory government doing? - Page 25 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? Wed Jan 26 2022, 00:18

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

Also I think that odds of the Tories calling an early general election if Boris goes have shortened dramatically over the last week.

493How is the Tory government doing? - Page 25 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? Wed Jan 26 2022, 00:55

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin

Sky News understands that Ms Gray has been handed photos of Boris Johnson at an event in Downing Street with wine bottles, which suggest revelry against the spirit and letter of pandemic lockdown law. It is unknown whether such images will be published in the final report, but two different sources confirm their existence. For some wavering backbenchers that might be problematic enough.

To underline how rapidly things are moving, the discussion among Tory MPs appears to have already moved beyond questions like who might run for leader, and whether Mr Johnson should stay on.

Instead many are already talking about how that should all happen. Should frontrunner Rishi Sunak do a deal with fellow favourite Liz Truss, for instance, to avoid a bruising contest and speed things along? Would guaranteeing her a great office of state in return for not running against him be enough? Would a less obvious candidate serve the party better?

These are not questions Boris Johnson wants people asking, but they already are.

https://news.sky.com/story/boris-johnson-sue-gray-has-received-photos-of-parties-in-downing-street-which-show-the-pm-next-to-wine-bottles-sky-news-understands-12525259

How is the Tory government doing? - Page 25 _123004849_financialtimes-nc

494How is the Tory government doing? - Page 25 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? Wed Jan 26 2022, 07:52

Norpig

Norpig
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

Get that bumbling fuckwit BoJo off the Nuts banner please!

495How is the Tory government doing? - Page 25 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? Wed Jan 26 2022, 09:27

Whitesince63


Andy Walker
Andy Walker

I’m still not writing Boris off yet. Clearly today will be a defining one so we should have a better idea once the reports out.. Personally as a Tory “Party” (not a pun!! 😉) member, I don’t think Rishi or Liz should replace BoJo, I’d much rather see a proper election eventually decided by members. However, I still believe Boris should continue based on what we know now. Obviously if something more damaging does come out today I’ll have a rethink.

496How is the Tory government doing? - Page 25 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? Wed Jan 26 2022, 11:26

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

Wasn't 200 x millionaire Rishi Sunak - whose wife, the heiress Akshatha Murty is actually richer than the Queen - at one of the parties anyway?

That man is so out of touch with ordinary people he'd be perfect as Tory leader.

497How is the Tory government doing? - Page 25 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? Wed Jan 26 2022, 11:48

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

wanderlust wrote:Also I think that odds of the Tories calling an early general election if Boris goes have shortened dramatically over the last week.

...and here we go...although at this stage it's only rumblings on the right of the right.

It makes sense, strategically. They know things are only going to get worse as Brexit takes it's toll on the country so if they wait the full term their position will only have weakened further, perhaps irreparably.

But right now, Tory voters haven't yet endured enough pain and the rest of the Cabinet haven't yet been found out to the same extent as Boris for voters to switch in the numbers required to overturn their majority and even if they lost a few seats they could still run the show.

Getting a new term and a "mandate" for a new leader is a prize worth having so to call an immediate election if Boris goes is an increasingly likely option and one that the moguls in the Leader Group are undoubtedly contemplating.

498How is the Tory government doing? - Page 25 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? Wed Jan 26 2022, 11:54

Whitesince63


Andy Walker
Andy Walker

In your dreams Lusty. you've been reading the Granuad too much. There isn’t going to be an election until 2024, so forget that. As for your nonsense on what voters think, I believe you’re miles out. Treason May found out what happens when you go to the country early so with an 80 seat majority, what possible reason would the Tories have to risk that? As for your Brexit comments, it’s so tiresome and not even worth commenting on. Boris will survive, the election will be May 2024 earliest, by which time this will largely be forgotten and the Tories, whoever leads them, will win again. Sorry, but that’s how it is 😉

499How is the Tory government doing? - Page 25 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? Wed Jan 26 2022, 12:15

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

Whitesince63 wrote:In your dreams Lusty. you've been reading the Granuad too much. There isn’t going to be an election until 2024, so forget that. As for your nonsense on what voters think, I believe you’re miles out. Treason May found out what happens when you go to the country early so with an 80 seat majority, what possible reason would the Tories have to risk that? As for your Brexit comments, it’s so tiresome and not even worth commenting on. Boris will survive, the election will be May 2024 earliest, by which time this will largely be forgotten and the Tories, whoever leads them, will win again. Sorry, but that’s how it is 😉
Why would I be dreaming about the Tories managing to save their sorry asses before things get really bad?

Read what I wrote - it's an observation on potential strategy. As it happens, I tend to agree it's not one they'll pursue  - I'm just pointing out that it's a strategic option with a short window.

500How is the Tory government doing? - Page 25 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? Wed Jan 26 2022, 12:18

okocha

okocha
El Hadji Diouf
El Hadji Diouf

All the Tory MPs attempting to excuse and exonerate the PM for his lying and rule-breaking should also go as they are accessories to a crime. Lying to the Queen tops the list of crimes against the country.

I'm puzzled by those claiming that he has to-date been an effective PM:- when challenged to name anything that has been successful during his reign, they can only point to "getting Brexit done" (a disaster so far!) and the vaccination programme....which as everyone knows was due to the scientists and the NHS, not to Boris.

We have all known what Johnson was like from his school days, his BBC interview with Eddie Mair in which he was rumbled as a liar and a thug, his previous sackings for lying, his attempts to prorogue parliament etc.

It's only a matter of time before Carrie goes the way of Boris' other previous bed-mates, she's been disastrous for his career and reputation. Will he care about his children?

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