How is the Tory government doing?

boltonbonce wrote:

BoltonTillIDie wrote:Did my name come up when you googled best forum makers

No, but it did come up on Bolton's Most Wanted.

Sluffy wrote:
The problem is that politics is about power and those who manage to get their hands on the power at the right time will go the furthest - and those once in power will do everything they can to stop there.

There's been a huge social and moral shift in the last decade or so dating back at least to Blair (and the lies to go to war) where what was once unacceptable as become accepted.

Look at how people behave on social media, look at how Wembley was stormed by the mob, look at how people ignored all the Covid rules, etc, etc, etc.

Look at Trump and how the Republican party still behaves, Christ (and I won't be popular for saying this) even look at how someone behaved on here - abusive, lying, completely in the wrong as I went to great lengths to demonstrate to you all - but no one was bothered and he's completely unrepentant for doing so.

My point being that if we as individuals don't try to do the right things in life, then why would you expect those with power - political, financial, physical or any other sort of power - to do the rights things?

Clearly they will do what's best for them.

That is the world we now live in.

We've got exactly what we've deserved.

Sluffy wrote:Politics is a dirty game and you don't get to the top of it if all you have are morals.

There's no question that Corbyn didn't became leader of the Labour Party without some form of help - outside funding, big power brokers such as the unions, dirty tricks, etc - and there's no question that those who 'helped' him get there were expecting benefits from him.

Those who have got to the top of any political party haven't done it on there own and are expected in return to repay their backers (in the old days through enacting/repealing the legislation they wanted to see).


Standards and morals, honesty and integrity aren't valued as much as they once were - so why should anybody be surprised that politics now reflects these changes too?

boltonbonce wrote:Everyone wants a favour, but there are 'too many pigs for the teats', to quote a very great man.

Sluffy wrote:

Quite true.

The bit I was trying to get to in all of this is that politics have never been about fairness and morality or whatever idealistic notion anyone may have - it is about raw power and control.

It's always has been but up to now there has been a degree of what is acceptable in society and what isn't, holding back the most crudest and blatant behaviour.

It's been clear to me for years that society has changed and such lauded notions of honesty and fair play, etc have considerably been eroded away - as I say just look at the behaviour, hatred and lies we've seen on here, how people behaved during Covid, how people believe and react to to any old bollocks they read on social media, etc, etc.

Politicians, Tory, Labour, SNP, Greens, whoever are basically all the same - they need to apply the two rules of politics - 1 - first do what it takes to get in power, and, 2 - do what it takes to stay in power - and in doing so lose their morals, independence and integrity along the way.

Would the Labour MP's really have stood up in Parliament and been on the picket lines if they weren't being funded by the RMT?

Maybe they would - but they are tainted by association - maybe their funding would stop if they didn't sort of thing?

It's one thing getting the Tories out but whoever gets in, there will always be powerful forces in the background (such as the RMT) who will always be pulling their strings.

And that's why I don't do politics - I know how dirty the game really is and is getting even more dirtier as society itself decays into self entitlement rather than the common good.

I'll get off my soapbox now.

Whitesince63 wrote:Almost everybody broke the Covid rules in some way and would have done more so had they not been physically prevented from doing so in hospitals, care homes and at Funerals. 

Natasha Whittam wrote:

Whitesince63 wrote:Almost everybody broke the Covid rules in some way and would have done more so had they not been physically prevented from doing so in hospitals, care homes and at Funerals. 

Speak for yourself. Decent people did as they were asked.

But again you miss the point. The Prime Minster should be a man or woman of integrity, someone beyond reproach.

"there will always be powerful forces in the background (such as the RMT) who will always be pulling their strings"

Natasha Whittam wrote:

Speak for yourself. Decent people did as they were asked.

But again you miss the point. The Prime Minster should be a man or woman of integrity, someone beyond reproach.

Natasha Whittam wrote:

Speak for yourself. Decent people did as they were asked.

But again you miss the point. The Prime Minster should be a man or woman of integrity, someone beyond reproach.

wanderlust wrote:

"there will always be powerful forces in the background (such as the RMT) who will always be pulling their strings"

Funny isn't it - the Tories dragging out "fear of the unions" at a time like this especially as the RMT - despite being one of the founder members of the Labour party - has cut it's funding of Labour year on year until it's negligible - possibly even zero these days.

The RMT has funded the Green Party and other parties though. Maybe the rail strikes are "a vision of  life under a future Green Party government"?

And if that pinnacle of forthright journalism The Daily Fail is to be believed, Labour are kicking them out - which is weird - I thought the RMT was no longer affiliated to the Labour Party anyway?

Only last month the Telegraph published this article which claims that the RMT reckon Starmer "is not on the side of workers" so it's hardly a RMT/Labour love in is it and the RMT has ZERO influence on the Labour party - they don't even like each other.

So where did all this nonsense come from? Desperation?

Compare and contrast that with this Russki fund raiser at the V & A.

Two grand per person admission, Russian donors including the wife of Putin's former Finance Minister, an auction of dinner with the PM and ministers, and a private tour of the publicly owned and (according to it's M&A) without political involvement, Victoria and Albert Museum.

How come our V&A is being used to raise money for the Tories?

Whitesince63 wrote:Rubbish, MOST people, certainly those that I know, broke various rules so cut it with this stupid holier than thou attitude. You live in a perfect fantasy world Nat.

Whitesince63 wrote:Many of us stuck by the rules Nat but at least as many didn’t. They didn’t keep the 2 metre rule, they didn’t wear masks in shops, they didn’t adhere to the meeting rules. Look at the beaches during the hot weather and people, mainly young, congregating in parks. Most people don’t blame Boris because unlike you they accept they weren’t paragons of virtue themselves.

Whitesince63 wrote: Most people don’t blame Boris because unlike you they accept they weren’t paragons of virtue themselves.

wanderlust wrote:

Whitesince63 wrote: Most people don’t blame Boris because unlike you they accept they weren’t paragons of virtue themselves.

"Most people"?

"Most people" didn't do irreparable damage to the economy or let people die due to the inability to take tough decisions when in a position of power.

"Most people" didn't vote for Brexit but we still ended up leaving the EU - and now "most people" regret it.

Struggling to see how Johnson has anything to do with or any understanding of "most people".

Whitesince63 wrote:Many of us stuck by the rules Nat but at least as many didn’t. They didn’t keep the 2 metre rule, they didn’t wear masks in shops, they didn’t adhere to the meeting rules. Look at the beaches during the hot weather and people, mainly young, congregating in parks. Most people don’t blame Boris because unlike you they accept they weren’t paragons of virtue themselves.