Was either penalty a penalty?

it was a penalty, the ref gave it, that's all that matters

Natasha Whittam wrote:

King Bill wrote:First. Pen. Clough was going nowhere, Maher didn't back off, made contact and paid the price. 

Second. Pen. Clough was in front of the defender when he deliberately pushed him off the ball.

Some 'fans' moan when we don't score and moan when we do.

Who moaned that we got a penalty?

The first one was never a penalty, I don't think anyone is stupid enough to think that.

I'll think you'll find it was a penalty. If an attacker feels any contact inside the box then he can choose to go down. If it wasn't a penalty he'd have been booked for diving

Natasha Whittam wrote:They were both dives, if the ref had given them to Bury there would have been a riot.

There has been a riot amongst Bury fans. All three have been on twitter bleating!

Boggersbelief wrote:

Natasha Whittam wrote:

King Bill wrote:First. Pen. Clough was going nowhere, Maher didn't back off, made contact and paid the price. 

Second. Pen. Clough was in front of the defender when he deliberately pushed him off the ball.

Some 'fans' moan when we don't score and moan when we do.

Who moaned that we got a penalty?

The first one was never a penalty, I don't think anyone is stupid enough to think that.

I'll think you'll find it was a penalty. If an attacker feels any contact inside the box then he can choose to go down. If it wasn't a penalty he'd have been booked for diving

It was a penalty because the ref gave it. If the ref had seen the dive he would have booked Clough but he didn't see it. So it was a penalty but it was a poor decision to award it.

I can't understand what pleasure some people derive from focusing on the negative, either about BW or Brexit or the economy or any number of other issues. Not exactly schadenfreude but something similarly twisted, led by Mr. and Mrs. Bleeding Happy, seems to give personal satisfaction to those whose purpose is presumably to prove that they are right and everyone else wrong, especially about other people's private thoughts and actions which no one can genuinely read accurately. 

We should be celebrating another win, a solid performance and a clean sheet, but we are lost in damning our own players with ludicrous accusations of "throwing" themselves down for which there is absolutely no evidence at all. Clough "fell" down after clear contact in both cases.

okocha wrote:I can't understand what pleasure some people derive from focusing on the negative, either about BW or Brexit or the economy or any number of other issues. Not exactly schadenfreude but something similarly twisted, led by Mr. and Mrs. Bleeding Happy, seems to give personal satisfaction to those whose purpose is presumably to prove that they are right and everyone else wrong, especially about other people's private thoughts and actions which no one can genuinely read accurately. 

We should be celebrating another win, a solid performance and a clean sheet, but we are lost in damning our own players with ludicrous accusations of "throwing" themselves down for which there is absolutely no evidence at all. Clough "fell" down after clear contact in both cases.

Would "some people" be me by any chance? If so, I feel comfortable in expressing my opinion on these matters and it just so happens that I have reservations about the team, Brexit and the direction of travel in the economy. 
As an advocate of freedom of speech I think it's important to have more than one side to a discussion otherwise the dialogue becomes meaningless. It is equally important to reject rampant jingoism of the type that emerges whenever we get a glimmer of hope. I'll have to agree to disagree over the interpretation of the penalty incidents although it should be noted that the vast majority of voters on this thread either felt Clough dived or that they would be gutted had they been awarded against us indicating that both pens were generous at best.
I am indeed celebrating the win but beating Bury won't change my opinion of where and how the team needs to be strengthened. As for Brexit, we're stuck with it now so I'm just hopeful that things work out - again, I'm not confident that we won't be worse off but we'll just have to wait and see. Either way, this is a discussion forum and I'll express the opinions I have and respect those that disagree with me.

I think you'll find that 12 people thought that at least one of the pens was fair.
5 thought not. 

In the end, it is the referee and his assistants who matter most. They were brave enough to ignore the heated atmosphere of a derby and award the correct decisions to the away side.

I just don't think we should be talking Zach down, implying that he is a cheat. That would be unfair and unhelpful to him and the team, and certainly wouldn't  pass the "genuine fan" test. He  didn't "throw himself to the ground" , nor appeal dramatically to the ref.

The first one was soft,the second was,in my opinion,a clear penalty.
Sadly,players are now coached on going down in the box after 'contact', however minimal.
This is the modern game,like it or not,and I certainly don't believe the lad cheated.
How odd that,whilst waiting for a corner to come into the box,players from both sides are quite happy to commit GBH,with hardly any punishment at all.
I know they're trying to cut it out,but they need to try harder.

After last seasons debacle I don't give a flying how we win, be it og, pens, shit entertainment or good play.
I'll take 25 more 1 nils now if it gets us out of this league!
Onwards and upwards!!

Soul Kitchen wrote:After last seasons debacle I don't give a flying how we win, be it og, pens, shit entertainment or good play.
I'll take 25 more 1 nils now if it gets us out of this league!
Onwards and upwards!!

okocha wrote:We should be celebrating another win, a solid performance and a clean sheet, but we are lost in damning our own players with ludicrous accusations of "throwing" themselves down for which there is absolutely no evidence at all. Clough "fell" down after clear contact in both cases.

it really doesn't matter, the Ref gave them both end of.

Enjoy it because as sure as eggs are eggs we will be on the other end of a decision like this before the seasons out.

wessy wrote:it really doesn't matter, the Ref gave them both end of.

Enjoy it because as sure as eggs are eggs we will be on the other end of a decision like this before the seasons out.

Correct. It balances out over a season. If I remember correctly, we should have had a couple of penalties at the macron that where less doubtful than those two, not given.

The first one was a bit soft and Clough made a meal of it.

With the second, it's a clear intentional foul.

Either way, I was amazed in both cases to see them actually given.