Who would you rate

as the best manager in English football past and present, for me it would be Bill Shankley and Brian Clough !!!
 just watched the Manchester derby with supposedly two of the best managers in the world but how would they fair on a level playing field with the same budget as everyone else !!!!

Jose and Pep are decent,but as bland as they come. 

Shankley and Clough quite the opposite. I could have spent hours listening to the pair of them.

The other two would put a glass eye to sleep.

Ol Big ead by far.

Clough was something special agree with Shankly, Don Revie Produced a great team at Leeds in the 1970,s since then Fergie stands out but that gave me no enjoyment so i dismiss him lol.

As stupid as this may sound - I'd put Allardyce right up there with the very beast.

The mark of a truly great manager to me is building successful teams.

Even with an open cheque book to buy the very best players in the world, some managers don't succeeded - particularly when they do it at one club but fail at another.

Ferguson rebuilt United several times to be successful and before that had won European silverware with Aberdeen. Clough won the league with Derby then picked Forest up from near the bottom of the then second tier of our football to get them promoted, win the title in their first season at the top, then win the European Cup - not once but twice!

I like Shankley - everybody did - but I wonder how much of his success was Bob Paisley working behind the scenes at the time because Paisley eclipsed him as a better manager once he took charge at Liverpool.

As for Allardyce, he's done it the hard way, achieved minor miracles at clubs with no money or in big trouble. He was successful at Blackpool - he all but took them up and blew it big time in the play off semi - leading to Oyston sacking him. He moved on to Notts County and got them promoted by the end of March! We all know what he achieved for us.

After walking out on us he did ok at Newcastle BUT they plunged into relegation the season following his departure - the very same at Blackburn where he went next.

His next call was to get West Ham promoted which he did - and keep them up - which he did also. Their fans wanted him out and they got their wish but they've struggled badly without him since.

His next task was probably his greatest - 8 games into the season Sunderland only had 3 points before they parachuted Allardyce in. He struggled with what he had to get to the transfer window with 12 points from 19 games - then he worked his magic to keep them up with 39 points at season end.

England came calling next - and rightly so - but he blew it off the pitch - not on it.

Not down for long he repeated his trick at Sunderland by keeping Palace up - and is doing the same now for Everton.

So it can all be coincidence and good luck at being successful for all those clubs and he proved that he can build sides from not very much as he did with us.

Sometimes it is hard to be appreciated for doing well at non fashionable clubs but Allardyce clearly isn't a one hit wonder and certainly deserves to be mentioned as one of the very best in my opinion.

Sluffy wrote:As stupid as this may sound - I'd put Allardyce right up there with the very beast.

The mark of a truly great manager to me is building successful teams.

Even with an open cheque book to buy the very best players in the world, some managers don't succeeded - particularly when they do it at one club but fail at another.

Ferguson rebuilt United several times to be successful and before that had won European silverware with Aberdeen.  Clough won the league with Derby then picked Forest up from near the bottom of the then second tier of our football to get them promoted, win the title in their first season at the top, then win the European Cup - not once but twice!

I like Shankley - everybody did - but I wonder how much of his success was Bob Paisley working behind the scenes at the time because Paisley eclipsed him as a better manager once he took charge at Liverpool.

As for Allardyce, he's done it the hard way, achieved minor miracles at clubs with no money or in big trouble.  He was successful at Blackpool - he all but took them up and blew it big time in the play off semi - leading to Oyston sacking him.  He moved on to Notts County and got them promoted by the end of March!  We all know what he achieved for us.

After walking out on us he did ok at Newcastle BUT they plunged into relegation the season following his departure - the very same at Blackburn where he went next.

His next call was to get West Ham promoted which he did - and keep them up - which he did also.  Their fans wanted him out and they got their wish but they've struggled badly without him since.

His next task was probably his greatest - 8 games into the season Sunderland only had 3 points before they parachuted Allardyce in.  He struggled with what he had to get to the transfer window with 12 points from 19 games - then he worked his magic to keep them up with 39 points at season end.

England came calling next - and rightly so - but he blew it off the pitch - not on it.

Not down for long he repeated his trick at Sunderland by keeping Palace up - and is doing the same now for Everton.

So it can all be coincidence and good luck at being successful for all those clubs and he proved that he can build sides from not very much as he did with us.

Sometimes it is hard to be appreciated for doing well at non fashionable clubs but Allardyce clearly isn't a one hit wonder and certainly deserves to be mentioned as one of the very best in my opinion.

Saved me typing something very similar.

Additional to Shankly and Clough, BSA, Fergie, George Graham, Bobby Robson.
As for us, BSA, Colin Todd, Bruce Rioch.

Wouldn't argue with most of the names put forward so far apart from Revie. Leeds were a physical and negative side and Revie was useless as an England manager.

Allardyce is the most under-rated manager on the list by far (as sluffy has already pointed out).

Fergusson

No one had mentioned Bob Paisley yet, what a job he did at Liverpool.

1.Clough
2.Fergie
3.Shankly or Paisley

Sam head and shoulders above any of the modern managers at Bolton.It's a damn shame the FA wanted rid and he didnt get the opportunity to build an England team in what it is a weak era of international football.

Bill Nicholson at Spurs is worth a mention and Joe Mercer at Man City and Matt Busby.

Norpig wrote:No one had mentioned Bob Paisley yet, what a job he did at Liverpool.

I was thinking of Paisley! Also Joe Fagin his number 2 who went on to manage.

Growler wrote:1.Clough
2.Fergie
3.Shankly or Paisley

Sam head and shoulders above any of the modern managers at Bolton.It's a damn shame the FA wanted rid and he didnt get the opportunity to build an England team in what it is a weak era of international football.

I don't think the FA wanted rid at all. I think their hands were tied after Sam's faux pas with the press and they felt duty bound to sack him.

Reebok Trotter wrote:

Growler wrote:1.Clough
2.Fergie
3.Shankly or Paisley

Sam head and shoulders above any of the modern managers at Bolton.It's a damn shame the FA wanted rid and he didnt get the opportunity to build an England team in what it is a weak era of international football.

I don't think the FA wanted rid at all. I think their hands were tied after Sam's faux pas with the press and they felt duty bound to sack him.

Duty bound? I don't think so. Sam didn't actually do anything illegal or offer to do anything against the rules. He made the mistake of admitting that he knew about various loopholes exploited by others and was clearly set up by journalists. At worst he was tactless.

xmiles wrote:

Reebok Trotter wrote:

Growler wrote:1.Clough
2.Fergie
3.Shankly or Paisley

Sam head and shoulders above any of the modern managers at Bolton.It's a damn shame the FA wanted rid and he didnt get the opportunity to build an England team in what it is a weak era of international football.

I don't think the FA wanted rid at all. I think their hands were tied after Sam's faux pas with the press and they felt duty bound to sack him.

Duty bound? I don't think so. Sam didn't actually do anything illegal or offer to do anything against the rules. He made the mistake of admitting that he knew about various loopholes exploited by others and was clearly set up by journalists. At worst he was tactless.

More importantly than being tactless he was greedy. Having landed the plum job he should have avoided meetings with any shady characters. If he did nothing illegal why did he resign from the job? His greed got the better of him unfortunately.

Reebok Trotter wrote:

xmiles wrote:

Reebok Trotter wrote:

Growler wrote:1.Clough
2.Fergie
3.Shankly or Paisley

Sam head and shoulders above any of the modern managers at Bolton.It's a damn shame the FA wanted rid and he didnt get the opportunity to build an England team in what it is a weak era of international football.

I don't think the FA wanted rid at all. I think their hands were tied after Sam's faux pas with the press and they felt duty bound to sack him.

Duty bound? I don't think so. Sam didn't actually do anything illegal or offer to do anything against the rules. He made the mistake of admitting that he knew about various loopholes exploited by others and was clearly set up by journalists. At worst he was tactless.

More importantly than being tactless he was greedy. Having landed the plum job he should have avoided meetings with any shady characters. If he did nothing illegal why did he resign from the job? His greed got the better of him unfortunately.

He resigned "by mutual agreement" and got a one million pound payment. Not bad for two months work.