The Post Office Scandal

boltonbonce wrote:
It tells us that, although I'm interested, I'm not willing to spend hours debating it on a football forum.
Lengthy posts aren't my thing.
You keep at it though, Bob. 

Lengthy posts aren't my thing either, Boncey, but sometimes you just have to include some detail.

There aren't many that care a great deal about the detail or the truth anyway, are there tbh?

I have attended a couple of Public Inquiries as an observer. One was the Homes for Votes scandal at Westminster City Council but the first was in Preston c.1990. I had personally known about this case (abuse of children in a local authority school for autistic children) for about ten years by then and how it had all been hushed up or covered up.

The breakthrough in the case only came about, as it usually does, when the media took a serious interest, Jonathan Maitland arriving at my next door neighbour's house (along with a BBC camera crew) to interview my neighbour, one of the main campaigners.

The PI was chaired by ex-Bolton School girl, Dame Janet Smith. She later went on to chair the more widely known Shipman Inquiry and the Savile Inquiry. I gather that she wasn't impressed by how few of her recommendations were taken up after Shipman.

Ismay is not a particularly common name but J Bruce Ismay was the chairman of the White Star Line, best remembered for 'surviving' the Titanic disaster in 1912.

Rod Ismay is an accountant who worked for Post Office Limited. It seems that he is likely to be best remembered for his part in the Horizon disaster. It remains to be seen whether he will survive it.

Lady B and I spent a couple of hours yesterday watching the recording of Mr Ismay's evidence to the Horizon Public Inquiry. We haven't seen the whole excruciating exercise yet but here's a useful summary.

https://www.postofficescandal.uk/post/rod-ismay-the-useful-idiot/

Ismay 'was being told to write a whitewash without being intelligent enough to realise that was what it was' concludes Nick Wallis.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B6s3ICBcMA8

@Busflower1

1 day ago
Can we start a Jason Beer fan club?

Yes please.

The now famous 'death stare'.

https://twitter.com/stugoo17/status/1730961433175736454?lang=en

Badenoch v Henry Staunton - who is telling the truth?

Badenoch's statement in six points

Business Secretary Kemi Badenoch's statement in the Commons has now finished, and while her general message is not to believe a word Staunton says, here's a summary of some of the finer points she made today:

The allegations made against the government by Henry Staunton are "completely false" and she regrets the way events have unfolded

The ex-Post Office chair claimed that she refused to apologise to him after he learnt of his dismissal from Sky News. She said that was not the case

Staunton also claimed that she told him that "someone's got to take the rap" for the Horizon scandal. Instead, she said he was dismissed due to "serious concerns" about his behaviour

Badenoch also denied that Staunton had been told to "stall" delivering compensation to victims ahead of the election

A copy of the readout of the phone call to dismiss Staunton will be made public so that everyone "can see the truth"

The government has already made £160m in compensation payments to victims, she said, and repeatedly emphasised that resolving compensation claims remained the number one priority


Two contrasting accounts - but only one can be true

Kemi Badenoch has a reputation for speaking her mind and to say she lived up to that in the Commons is probably an understatement.

Her tweets at the weekend were spiky enough, but she went one step further at the despatch box, accusing Henry Staunton of a “blatant attempt to seek revenge following dismissal”.

The business secretary announced that a readout from the call she made to sack him would be published, to back up her version of events.

However, it’s understood that the former Post Office chairman stands by his claims and has his own record of the conversation.

As Labour’s Jonathan Reynolds pointed out, we now have two completely contrasting accounts. And only one can be true.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/business-68337926


Personally I don't think The Times would have printed what they did unless they were absolutely certain it was true beyond any doubt...

Staunton hits back...

Henry Staunton: Ex-Post Office chair escalates compensation row

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-68357074

Fwiw this is what I interpret what went on here...

There are three players involved here, the Post Office (Staunton - new in post with a brief to sort the PO out), the government (a new minister in post who hasn't got anything like the budget to stem the PO's massive ongoing losses, of which Horizon is only a part of at the time - which no one then imagined would become so massive a scandal as it now is) and in the middle of the two, the Civil Service (Sarah Munby - whose job it is to implement government policy of the Minister but also advise the Minister of the difficulties and effects of doing so - in essence the role I was in during my career in the public service)

Overshadowing the meeting there appears to be a General Election looming and of course ALL bad news for the government leading up to it needs to be 'smoothed out' as much as possible and 'dealt with' after the election has been won.

Seems Staunton outline how bad a financial position the PO was overall and Munby quite rightly said the Minister/government does not want to know and certainly won't deal with it this side of the election - so do your best to carry on as you are until the election is over.

I think it fair to say that would be standard advice - and would be exactly the same advise given if the issue was about Horizon solely (remember Horizon was not anywhere as high profile has it now has turned out to be, at that time).

It would be interesting to read what briefing Munby gave to the Minister after her meeting with Staunton and whether Horizon was specifically mentioned by her although it was known at the time an inquiry was pending.

Clearly if Staunton hadn't the money to prepare for the inquiry, then the government would either have to postpone the inquiry to a later date or face the PO being underprepared at the inquiry itself - and face the consequence that would almost certainly follow - fail to prepare, prepare to fail - as they say.


Fwiw this - taken from the link above - is interesting...

At Prime Minister's Questions on Wednesday, Sir Keir Starmer called on the prime minister to...

When he was asked repeatedly whether he wanted to repeat Ms Badenoch's allegations relating to Mr Staunton, Prime Minister Rishi Sunak declined to do so.

Paula Vennels stripped of her CBE.

ttps://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/feb/23/king-strips-cbe-from-former-post-office-boss-paula-vennells

I expect Ms Vennels will not be looking forward to facing questioning in the next phase of the Public Inquiry.

She's No.65 on the list. Here's the full list:

https://www.postofficehorizoninquiry.org.uk/list-witnesses-phases-5-and-6

Ten Bobsworth wrote:Paula Vennels stripped of her CBE.

ttps://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/feb/23/king-strips-cbe-from-former-post-office-boss-paula-vennells

I expect Ms Vennels will not be looking forward to facing questioning in the next phase of the Public Inquiry.

She's No.65 on the list. Here's the full list:

https://www.postofficehorizoninquiry.org.uk/list-witnesses-phases-5-and-6

Was she working for the NHS recently?

Thought I saw an article on her losing her job?

karlypants wrote:

Was she working for the NHS recently?

Thought I saw an article on her losing her job?

She followed the time-honoured route of stepping away from a looming scandal to taking on the job of chairman of an NHS Trust.

It lasted a couple of years before she stepped away from that too.

https://www.bracknellnews.co.uk/news/national/24038238.disgraced-former-post-office-boss-paula-vennells/

Ten Bobsworth wrote:

karlypants wrote:

Was she working for the NHS recently?

Thought I saw an article on her losing her job?

She followed the time-honoured route of stepping away from a looming scandal to taking on the job of chairman of an NHS Trust.

It lasted a couple of years before she stepped away from that too.

https://www.bracknellnews.co.uk/news/national/24038238.disgraced-former-post-office-boss-paula-vennells/

I see.

Not very Christian of her all this!

karlypants wrote:

I see.

Not very Christian of her all this!

Could it be that that is just another refuge?

Here's a bit more Post Office stuff.

Here's a bit more Post Office stuff.

Richard Morgan KC seems to be squirming in his seat, but is squirming enough? Is it nearly enough?.

Been keeping up to date on this, between watching parrots playing the trumpet. and a Japanese man having his nose shaved, and, although it's not really my thing on here, I have to say, some of the stuff coming out is, quite literally, jaw dropping.
However, I'm not getting involved.
Take it away Polly..........

The Lee Castleton case is a significant one in the Post Office saga. Castleton defended himself against unsubstantiated charges and was taken to the cleaners and made bankrupt based on virtually no evidence except for the Horizon computer system that was known to be suspect, to say the least.
 
Morgan was the prosecutor, His Honour Master Richard Havery KC, the judge.

Check out the observations about the case and the judge here:.

https://www.postofficescandal.uk/post/post-office-v-castleton-a-second-category-abuse-of-process/

Its back on and its compulsive viewing.



Jason Beer and Alan Bates seemed to be quite enjoying themselves yesterday. Maybe I shouldn't, but I am quite looking forward to the questioning of the oleaginous weasels when more of them appear before Sir Wyn's Inquiry in the next few weeks.

It should make interesting viewing watching these arseholes squirm in their seats justifying their actions!

karlypants wrote:It should make interesting viewing watching these arseholes squirm in their seats justifying their actions!

I had a foretaste of some of this. It was right at the beginning of Horizon (or it even could have been just before it) but I was discussing the draft accounts of a Sub Postmaster with him. I had known the SPM for about 25 years and never had the slightest cause to doubt his honesty or integrity.

It was the last occasion I saw him. He was about to retire at the time and hopeful of transferring the business to his son who had worked for him in the SPO for several years.

When I asked about how much was owed to him by PO (or vice versa), I remember him telling me that the Post Office's own figures were wrong but he had no choice but to agree them.

When I asked whether any other SPMs were having similar problems, he told me that they were. But they were all in the same boat;  in essence, it was agree with POL or else!

I asked him whether he could get help from somewhere. No, was the answer. The National Federation of SubPostmasters was as useless as Alan Bates described it. In the pocket of the PO from the sound of things.

Alan Bates: 'They didn't like me standing up to them'.


Seems Mr Bates view of the Post Office management is similar to my opinion of you...

Sluffy wrote:Bob had a pop at me because he doesn't like to be stood up to, nothing at all to do with this thread at all.

Sluffy wrote:Alan Bates: 'They didn't like me standing up to them'.


Seems Mr Bates view of the Post Office management is similar to my opinion of you...

Sluffy wrote:Bob had a pop at me because he doesn't like to be stood up to, nothing at all to do with this thread at all.

Just stop it FFS!!!