Freedman's tactics

I was thinking about DFs much-derided tactics and as mentioned elsewhere reckon they remind me of the Italian sides of the 60s and 70s - obviously we don't have the deadly strikers the more successful Italian teams had at the time, but the principle is the same. This defence-based counterpunching approach has been revitalised recently and is becoming increasingly popular again e.g. Mourinho's current Chelsea side. 
So how come a Glaswegian former YTS trainee became a fan of this approach? 

This from a recent article in the Daily Record:

At 15, Dougie Freedman made the decision that would change his whole outlook on football.

He had the option to join Morton part-time with an apprenticeship as a car mechanic thrown in or go to Queens Park Rangers on a youth training scheme.
English coaching gurus Don Howe and Dave Sexton got a hold of the striker, transformed his talents and planted the seeds to become a coach.

He followed it through to take courses at 28 and was soon combing playing with coaching the kids at Crystal Palace.

His pursuit of knowledge also saw him pay out of his own pocket for visits to AC Milan, Palermo, Real Betis and Manchester City to study the latest methods and techniques.

Freedman worked his way up the backroom ranks at Palace to land the manager’s job before being lured north by Bolton 15 months ago.

His abilities are being tested to the full at Wanderers where downsizing and a struggle in the Championship have replaced the heady days of top-flight football.

Regarded as a deep thinker and progressive coach, Freedman is up for the fight and traces his love of coaching back to the early days at Loftus Road.

So Don Howe used to be Bobby Robson's assistant - hence the Italian connection which may well have inspired DF to pay to go to AC and Palermo?

Spurious I know, but I suspect that Howe's influence on Freedman was massive.

i was saying to a friend at work this morning that Dougie should manage in Italy, he has that defensive mentality that is popular there.

He may be a deep thinker but to me he is a one trick pony, far too defensive minded and we don't have the pace and the ability to play well on the counter attack. The build up from the back is painfully slow or at the other extreme we just bang it up the middle and watch it come straight back.

The attendance must have been a lot lower last night and it's a sign of things to come as people just don't want to watch whats on offer at the moment. I know there is no money and we have a lot of deadwood but there has to be some kind of entertainment value as well to watching a game of football or what's the point?

His crucial error was made a long time ago- he should have become a car mechanic

I'm sure we've discussed his obsession with the whole "catenaccio" thing before on here.

The point I made back then was that you need a Campo / Hierro type player sitting just in front of the defence, who can ping 50 yard passes into space for the striker / wide attacking players to run on to.

And we haven't got one.

So all we end up doing is defending deep and giving the ball away, either through losing it when Spearing or Medo passes to the opposition or someone lumps it up and their centre halves mop it up easily.

He'd be better off going back to basics and working on the players' basic skills.

If you want to keep possession and then hurt the opposition on the break, you need players who are comfortable on the ball and who move into space to create the opportunity for a short pass.

This way you can move the ball up the pitch in a controlled manner and only attack the goal when you're forward in numbers and have a real chance of scoring.

Like what them Spanish teams do.

Just a thought, but then again, I'm not regarded as a "deep-thinking, progressive coach."

That's the point. We don't have the players (yet) to make the most out of this approach. When we play 451 it's a great system providing the midfielders can get forward to support the attack - as well as get back and defend when required. Saying 442 is the answer is naive. Bread is right about basic skills - if we could pass and retain control better, it might work.
That said, I think Dougie recognises this and is looking for quick decisive breaks rather than controlled build up, but the passing is too wayward and apart from Beckford we don't have the pace up front.
It would have merit if Beckford could finish better.
I think the measure of Dougie will be seen next season and will be dependent on whether or not he is able to field a team that can play the way he clearly wants. If not, he needs to stop trying to fit a square peg in a round hole.

Breadman wrote:I'm sure we've discussed his obsession with the whole "catenaccio" thing before on here.

The point I made back then was that you need a Campo / Hierro type player sitting just in front of the defence, who can ping 50 yard passes into space for the striker / wide attacking players to run on to.

And we haven't got one.

So all we end up doing is defending deep and giving the ball away, either through losing it when Spearing or Medo passes to the opposition or someone lumps it up and their centre halves mop it up easily.

He'd be better off going back to basics and working on the players' basic skills.

If you want to keep possession and then hurt the opposition on the break, you need players who are comfortable on the ball and who move into space to create the opportunity for a short pass.

This way you can move the ball up the pitch in a controlled manner and only attack the goal when you're forward in numbers and have a real chance of scoring.

Like what them Spanish teams do.

Just a thought, but then again, I'm not regarded as a "deep-thinking, progressive coach."

Freedman out, Breadman in.

Only if I can have Magoo as my No2.

I need someone to point at when it all (inevitably) goes belly up.

So it's not just me that thinks Bread is a deep-thinking, progressive coach?
That said, I'm not convinced Dougie is aiming for the pure Catennacio defence as we haven't got the likes of Gentile, Paulo Maldini, CostaCurta or Baresi at the back and he doesn't play a sweeper in the traditional sense, but I do think he sees Spearing as a libero which would be fine if he could pass like Campo.
Whether it's catennaccio, zona mista or something else there's little point if we haven't got the attackers to take the chances on the rare occasions when we get them.
Sort it out Bread. You've got my vote.

Actually, I've changed my mind.

It's a bit like when Labour finally got in, back in the 90's.

I'd spent my adult life slagging off the Tory government and suddenly, I was stumped because I had no-one to moan at.

And I didn't like it.

It confused me and made my head hurt.

So, for that reason, I'm out........

Find some other mug.

There's be loads to moan about Bread: injuries to key players, opposition being better than us, ignorant fans that know nothing about football, the whiff of Whittam's box filtering through to your office....you'll be fine mate. Go for it!

wanderlust wrote:I was thinking about DFs much-derided tactics and as mentioned elsewhere reckon they remind me of the Italian sides of the 60s and 70s - obviously we don't have the deadly strikers the more successful Italian teams had at the time, but the principle is the same. This defence-based counterpunching approach has been revitalised recently and is becoming increasingly popular again e.g. Mourinho's current Chelsea side. 
So how come a Glaswegian former YTS trainee became a fan of this approach? 

This from a recent article in the Daily Record:

At 15, Dougie Freedman made the decision that would change his whole outlook on football.

He had the option to join Morton part-time with an apprenticeship as a car mechanic thrown in or go to Queens Park Rangers on a youth training scheme.
English coaching gurus Don Howe and Dave Sexton got a hold of the striker, transformed his talents and planted the seeds to become a coach.

He followed it through to take courses at 28 and was soon combing playing with coaching the kids at Crystal Palace.

His pursuit of knowledge also saw him pay out of his own pocket for visits to AC Milan, Palermo, Real Betis and Manchester City to study the latest methods and techniques.

Freedman worked his way up the backroom ranks at Palace to land the manager’s job before being lured north by Bolton 15 months ago.

His abilities are being tested to the full at Wanderers where downsizing and a struggle in the Championship have replaced the heady days of top-flight football.

Regarded as a deep thinker and progressive coach, Freedman is up for the fight and traces his love of coaching back to the early days at Loftus Road.

So Don Howe used to be Bobby Robson's assistant - hence the Italian connection which may well have inspired DF to pay to go to AC and Palermo?

Spurious I know, but I suspect that Howe's influence on Freedman was massive.

I think you will find Chelski have most of the possession, shots, corners etc in the majority of their matches. Not to mention some world class players who can actually put a foot on the ball.  They can protect a lead if need be.  We have none of the above so trying to play a defensive game and inviting on other teams is a poor plan IMO.

wanderlust wrote:That's the point. We don't have the players (yet) to make the most out of this approach. When we play 451 it's a great system providing the midfielders can get forward to support the attack - as well as get back and defend when required. Saying 442 is the answer is naive. Bread is right about basic skills - if we could pass and retain control better, it might work.
That said, I think Dougie recognises this and is looking for quick decisive breaks rather than controlled build up, but the passing is too wayward and apart from Beckford we don't have the pace up front.
It would have merit if Beckford could finish better.
I think the measure of Dougie will be seen next season and will be dependent on whether or not he is able to field a team that can play the way he clearly wants. If not, he needs to stop trying to fit a square peg in a round hole.

Are you taking the piss ? 4-5-1 is a good system ? Quick decisive breaks ffs,if you had been at the match last night you would have seen quick , incisive breaks in abundance only they were from the opposition. The guy started 5-4-1 hoping against hope to stop the opposition scoring yet again,fuck attack and score , no defend and counter attack with one up front and a static midfield , fucking brilliant. If you had been there you would have seen the tit giving his Captain instructions as our opposition were making a double substitution and our said Captain shaking his head in disbelief !!! I accept its not possible for everyone to be at matches , I spent a long time not being able to myself  but ffs dont lecture people about that little jocks prowess as a tactician,man manager or fuck all else please.

Tigermin wrote:

wanderlust wrote:That's the point. We don't have the players (yet) to make the most out of this approach. When we play 451 it's a great system providing the midfielders can get forward to support the attack - as well as get back and defend when required. Saying 442 is the answer is naive. Bread is right about basic skills - if we could pass and retain control better, it might work.
That said, I think Dougie recognises this and is looking for quick decisive breaks rather than controlled build up, but the passing is too wayward and apart from Beckford we don't have the pace up front.
It would have merit if Beckford could finish better.
I think the measure of Dougie will be seen next season and will be dependent on whether or not he is able to field a team that can play the way he clearly wants. If not, he needs to stop trying to fit a square peg in a round hole.

Are you taking the piss ? 4-5-1 is a good system ? Quick decisive breaks ffs,if you had been at the match last night you would have seen quick , incisive breaks in abundance only they were from the opposition. The guy started 5-4-1 hoping against hope to stop the opposition scoring yet again,fuck attack and score , no defend and counter attack with one up front and a static midfield , fucking brilliant. If you had been there you would have seen the tit giving his Captain instructions as our opposition were making a double substitution and our said Captain shaking his head in disbelief !!! I accept its not possible for everyone to be at matches , I spent a long time not being able to myself  but ffs dont lecture people about that little jocks prowess as a tactician,man manager or fuck all else please.

Top job at completely missing the point of my post which was...
Nowt wrong with the 451 system if we have the right players to play it - but we don't - so if Dougie doesn't get them by next season he should stop trying to play it.

I've no idea what you are rabbiting on about  - certainly nothing to do with what I wrote, so stop quoting me.

Simon Charlton's comments hit the nail on the head when he said 'Freedman is trying to fit a square peg in a round hole' BWFC simply dont have the type of players to play the formations DF wants to play. Liverpool can do it BWFC can't. He described it as a woeful and wasted season full of disappointments. I can't argue with that!

Triumph wrote:Simon Charlton's comments hit the nail on the head when he said 'Freedman is trying to fit a square peg in a round hole' BWFC simply dont have the type of players to play the formations DF wants to play. Liverpool can do it BWFC can't. He described it as a woeful and wasted season full of disappointments. I can't argue with that!

Clearly Simon Charlton was quoting me.