Abortion

In general, I would consider myself anti-abortion. I make exception for instances of rape and incest, or where the unborn child would have a terrible quality of life due to critical or multiple illnesses. There are some who are absolutely anti-abortion in all circumstances, however.

This subject is on my mind because on Friday night, one of my best friends told me he has got a girl he has been seeing pregnant.

My friend is 27 and the girl he has been seeing is 20. My friend has been in a doomed relationship for 7 years, and finally ended his long term relationship in January.

The girl who is pregnant is not his girlfriend, they are not dating, they are 'friends with benefits'. After so long in a destructive relationship, he has been enjoying his freedom and the girl he has been seeing has already accepted and accepts now that they are not a couple, although she would like them to be.

My friend has a good job, a reasonable disposal income and savings, but he is not wealthy by any stretch of the imagination. The girl he has been seeing does not have a steady income, has quite a lot of emotional issues, and has cut herself off from her family, who she has moved 100 miles away from.

So when my friend came to see me the other day and told me about the pregnancy, he straight away told me he wants her to have an abortion. She wants to keep the baby because she has had 3 miscarriages in the past (yes I know - 20 years old and 4th time pregnant) and is worried that an abortion might harm her chances of having children in the future further.

He has persuaded her to have the abortion and it is taking place on Monday morning.

Here's the rub - even though I consider myself anti-abortion I didn't once consider, at the time, telling him he should consider keeping the baby.

I asked him did he think the pregnancy was entrapment because the girl wants a proper relationship with him and he is convinced this is not the case. She is on the pill and her explanation for the pregnancy is that she was sick one day 7 weeks ago and the pill must have come back up... or that the pill simply failed.

It just goes to show that sometimes you can believe in something in principle but when it comes to the crunch, and someone close to you is affected, your long-held views can go out of the window.

I even found myself suggesting things he should say to the girl (who I have met a few times) about the benefits of not having a baby at this time in her life and while she is not in a loving, long-term relationship.

My friend isn't a complete bastard. In fact, he is one of the nicest people I know. He put up with an awful lot of manipulation and I would suggest, emotional bullying, from his previous, long term girlfriend. He has made it clear that if she has the baby he will support her and the baby but it will not make them into a couple.

What are your views on abortion? Has a personal experience informed your opinion on it? As I said, I used to consider myself anti-abortion but after this weekend, I'm not entitled to describe myself this way any more.

Good topic LH, should get a few responses.. My own view is that the circumstances should dictate the outcome, and no two events are ever the same

I've always believed that it is the girl's call on whether to have the baby or not. At the end of the day she has to carry it for 9 months, go through childbirth and in the majority of cases raise the child with / or without the father.

As blokes we know that the pill isn't 100% guaranteed and could easily put a johnny on to make the chances of an unwanted pregnancy practically nil.

The shame is the emotional scare the girl will have to carry for the rest of her life particularly if she goes through it without ever having a baby.

At the end of the day though its neither my business or decision.

Sluffy wrote:
At the end of the day though its neither my business or decision.

Do you mean in general, Sluffy? Or if you'd got a girl pregnant when you were in your 20s/before you got married? Or if an unwanted pregnancy happened to a close friend?

That's an interesting comment but I'm not sure what the context is.

The circumstances you describe in your opening post and every other instance where a woman finds herself pregnant where I am not involved.

Like you say it depends on the circumstances and the decision should be with the mother,

This is a true and actual on going event

Got a friend who was told one day by his Daughter, she was Pregnant and she didn't know, even though it transpired she was 27 weeks, panic set in.

She got the backing of her Parents, the Father wasn't on the scene or aware, far as i've been told.

The Birth, a young baby boy was born Premature by Cesarean Section,Weighing
2 pounds 15ozs and was in Intensive Care for nearly 5 weeks, his Mother couldn't bare to leave him.

Eventually he was allowed home and he got better, and turned into a Beautiful Baby Boy and lived a normal life.

Just been told the poor Lad now 4, is in Manchester Childrens Hospital with Leukemia., and his Mother stays with him Night and Day, while he undergoes Chemo.

An ex friend of mine got his girlfriend pregnant they were going to get married anyway.
It was already scheduled for the summer, but unfortunately for the poor little mite the fucking bitch aborted it because it would spoil her wedding dress.
He came round to me and asked my advice, i told him not to let her do it, he didn,t she did and i fucking despise the pair of them.

Just wondering why a couple of posters seem to think it should be entirely the mother's decision... the father is going to be expected to support the child, after all. What if he genuinely can't? Or even doesn't want to? Surely fathers deserve a say. The CSA wouldn't accept a "I wanted her to have an abortion and she refused" explanation if the father refused to support the baby. Both parties created the baby, both parties are equally to blame for the unexpected pregnancy, surely both parties should try to come to an agreement if one is in favour and one is against going through with it.

Angry's story about an abortion for the sake of spoiling a wedding dress is awful, I hope most abortions take place out of consideration for the life the child would have and important needs of the parents, not trivia like that.

Abortion is a very emotive subject. No two cases are alike. It's a sad indictment of our society when there are so many fatherless bastards out there.

It must be a terrible decision for any woman to have to terminate the life of her unborn child. The knowledge of what they did must stay with them forever.

Children should be planned and not created as a result of a night of unprotected sex. In certain circumstances abortion has to be the best option.

The very fact that the circumstances vary enormously in terms of the financial and emotional capacity to cope and willingness to be a parent is exactly the argument as to why there has to be a choice.
"Pro-life" campaigners argue that there should be one rule for all.
To me that would be condemning many parents and/or their children to a f******* miserable life.
I think what lies behind the "pro-life" campaign is more political and expresses attitudes about nuclear family institutions, the enforcement of a "moral" perspective on sexual behaviour and the promotion of particular interpretations of religious writings - a much darker agenda IMO.
I would therefore propose that everybody should have a choice and given the ever growing population crisis, "pro-life" campaigners should voluntarily undergo chemical castration so that they never have to face that personal dilemma.

I do believe in a woman's right to choose. Ultimately it has to be the woman's choice for basic biological and practical reasons. There have been court cases where the fathers have tried to force women not to have abortions but they have all failed. I also think that forcing a woman to have a baby she doesn't want bodes very badly for the child's future upbringing.

Having said this I don't underestimate the suffering an abortion involves.

Angry Dad wrote:An ex friend of mine got his girlfriend pregnant they were going to get married anyway.
It was already scheduled for the summer, but unfortunately for the poor little mite the fucking bitch aborted it because it would spoil her wedding dress.
He came round to me and asked my advice, i told him not to let her do it, he didn,t she did and i fucking despise the pair of them.

this is one of the most cold hearted things ive ever read in my lifetime... bitch.

largehat wrote:

This subject is on my mind because on Friday night, one of my best friends told me he has got a girl he has been seeing pregnant.

Your friend is a ponce who can't take responsibility for his actions. If he'd kept his knob in his pants he wouldn't be in this situation.

I am 100% against abortion, it is a sin and murder. It really is that simple. People dress it up in many ways, but it's killing an innocent child whatever anyone says.

However, we have enough people on this planet already so it would be better for the future of human kind to put a limit on each couple to one child. Single people should not be able to have children. Harsh, but it has to be done.

Natasha Whittam wrote:

largehat wrote:

This subject is on my mind because on Friday night, one of my best friends told me he has got a girl he has been seeing pregnant.

I am 100% against abortion, it is a sin and murder. It really is that simple. People dress it up in many ways, but it's killing an innocent child whatever anyone says.

So even when the woman has been raped or is mentally incapable you won't let her have an abortion?

xmiles wrote:

So even when the woman has been raped or is mentally incapable you won't let her have an abortion?

Ok, fair point, I should say I am 99.99% against abortion.

Natasha Whittam wrote:

largehat wrote:

This subject is on my mind because on Friday night, one of my best friends told me he has got a girl he has been seeing pregnant.

Your friend is a ponce who can't take responsibility for his actions. If he'd kept his knob in his pants he wouldn't be in this situation.

I am 100% against abortion, it is a sin and murder. It really is that simple. People dress it up in many ways, but it's killing an innocent child whatever anyone says.

However, we have enough people on this planet already so it would be better for the future of human kind to put a limit on each couple to one child. Single people should not be able to have children. Harsh, but it has to be done.

you can also argue that if the girl had kept her fucking legs closed to, they both wouldn't be in this position.

hate women who always play the victim, all men are bastards etc etc....

at the end of the day, some women trap guys (no saying this is the case here, just a general statement) by getting pregnant so they can get a council house, benefits and CSA payments for 18 years.

some women even go so far as to use a kid as a weapon for financial gain!

i agree that some men are irresponsible, but its not ALWAYS the mans fault Natasha.

its wrong how the world works...

women have the choice of getting rid of a kid regardless of what the father thinks.

women are the ones (however 'responsible' they are/not) who always get the kid and get to use it to leach money of the father for 18 years.

If the woman decides the man hurt her she can decide the kid is not seeing his dad and all the man can do is go to court, spending thousands just to be able to see it for 2 hours on a Saturday (or at weekends - something again i dont agree with - the man pays 20% of his wages so the mum can go out on the piss with it every fri and sat night!) if a man decides he wants to keep the baby - he gets arrested for kidnap...

the law always sides with the woman - in some cases an amount of common sense and looking at a case on an individual basis instead of this 'all men are bastards' bullshit we usually get!

think about this - the CSA can take 20% of a mans earnings regardless of the circumstances, If in VERY rare cases, the man ever gets custody - watch the CSA laugh at him or start a process that will take years and years to even get moving!

its fucking wrong, I still think the CSA is an agency that was created by and still ran by a group of ugly, man hating lesbians...

Natasha Whittam wrote:

largehat wrote:

This subject is on my mind because on Friday night, one of my best friends told me he has got a girl he has been seeing pregnant.

However, we have enough people on this planet already so it would be better for the future of human kind to put a limit on each couple to one child. Single people should not be able to have children. Harsh, but it has to be done.

Problem is that China has that law and it just plainly doesn't work and their policing methids are much harsher than ours, so how could it be implemented Planet-wide?

Reebok_Rebel wrote:
you can also argue that if the girl had kept her fucking legs closed to, they both wouldn't be in this position.

hate women who always play the victim, all men are bastards etc etc....

at the end of the day, some women trap guys (no saying this is the case here, just a general statement) by getting pregnant so they can get a council house, benefits and CSA payments for 18 years.

some women even go so far as to use a kid as a weapon for financial gain!

i agree that some men are irresponsible, but its not ALWAYS the mans fault Natasha.

I accept that there are some dodgy women out there that use men to get a child - but men shouldn't be so stupid. A woman cannot make a man have sex.

The simple fact that the CSA exists should tell you how many fathers there are out there that don't pay for their kids or want to pay as little as possible.

And, generally Rebel, men are bastards.

Natasha Whittam wrote:

Reebok_Rebel wrote:
you can also argue that if the girl had kept her fucking legs closed to, they both wouldn't be in this position.

hate women who always play the victim, all men are bastards etc etc....

at the end of the day, some women trap guys (no saying this is the case here, just a general statement) by getting pregnant so they can get a council house, benefits and CSA payments for 18 years.

some women even go so far as to use a kid as a weapon for financial gain!

i agree that some men are irresponsible, but its not ALWAYS the mans fault Natasha.

I accept that there are some dodgy women out there that use men to get a child - but men shouldn't be so stupid. A woman cannot make a man have sex.

The simple fact that the CSA exists should tell you how many fathers there are out there that don't pay for their kids or want to pay as little as possible.

And, generally Rebel, men are bastards.

im not a bastard!

sorry, I disagree again that its all mens fault...a woman (unless raped - different argument though) also chooses to have sex and knows the risks.

unfortunately, when she falls pregnant... that absolute BASTARD is at fault, no - its bullshit, sorry.

Natasha Whittam wrote:
Your friend is a ponce who can't take responsibility for his actions. If he'd kept his knob in his pants he wouldn't be in this situation.

I'll pass on your kind words to my friend, I'm sure he will abstain from sex completely now until he is married.

On a serious note, do you take the same hard line stance if people use 2 forms of contraception, Natasha, and a pregnancy still occurs?

If a couple of people use a combination of the pill/that implant thing in the arm (not sure what it is called) and a condom and a pregnancy still happens, do you still think they must go ahead with the pregnancy?