Are we already dead?

JAH it's not the concept of a ST that bothers me or a number of others on here, it's the people fronting it that have me against it. They are by and large self-publicising individuals who don't have any real interest in the club's future. Sluffy in particular has had bad experiences at the hands of at least one of the founders who attempted to sabotage this very site and continues to diss it and Sluffy personally on other forums. The ST 'eight' refused to even identify themselves at first yet they expected us to immediately trust them. On this very forum they issued a series of promises including 'reaching out to the internet forums' but failed to keep any of them. When asked about it 'kane57' replied 'we have better things to do than post updates on an interntet forum'.

On the night of their first public meeting Trevor Birch was present but not allowed to speak. The meeting began with thanks to the club for 'donating the room' but at the end of the meeting a bucket (no kidding, an actual bucket) was passed around to 'help cover the costs of the room'. 

The fact is that the people running this don't seem to have any idea what they said an hour ago and contradict themselves constantly, spawning (in my case at least) a deep distrust in their honesty and competence to lead a Supporters Group of any kind much less actually run or have any part in running a football league club. 

Check out their website if you want and you'll actually see some of what I mean right there on their own page.

i'm one of the few on here in favour of an ST, but i can understand some of the reservations about the people currently involved. The way to change this is to join (like i have) and make sure that when the elections come up you make your feelings known and vote for someone else.

Norpig wrote:i'm one of the few on here in favour of an ST, but i can understand some of the reservations about the people currently involved. The way to change this is to join (like me and johnny have) and make sure that when the elections come up you make your feelings known and vote for someone else.

Fixed

y2johnny wrote:

Norpig wrote:i'm one of the few on here in favour of an ST, but i can understand some of the reservations about the people currently involved. The way to change this is to join (like me and johnny have) and make sure that when the elections come up you make your feelings known and vote for someone else.

Fixed

cheers Johnny i was feeling a bit lonely 

Norpig wrote:

y2johnny wrote:

Norpig wrote:i'm one of the few on here in favour of an ST, but i can understand some of the reservations about the people currently involved. The way to change this is to join (like me and johnny have) and make sure that when the elections come up you make your feelings known and vote for someone else.

Fixed

cheers Johnny i was feeling a bit lonely 

i'm gonna be like the really old argumentative drunk bloke sat in the corner of a pub when it comes to meetings, i can see it now!

Manda, stop reading now - Sorry.

The problem is that organisations like the ST are like local councils inasmuch as they will always attract a certain type of person who see them as opportunities to raise their profile and feel important.

Look at how swiftly Crispy appointed himself spokesman for ours and then embarked upon a one man crusade to get his fizzer in front of as many cameras as he could, as quickly as possible.

"It's not about me, honest!"

Yeah, right.......

And that puts people off, me included.

And I'm still concerned that this is all part of some masterplan being orchestrated for nefarious reasons by people currently within the club.

I don't know why and I have no idea to what end but something's not right with the whole thing.

As for being vocal and challenging the people running the show during meetings, good luck with that.

If this sounds a bit sneery and pompous, I'm genuinely sorry but it's what I think:

Your average Bolton fan is thick and easily lead.

Just look back to that meeting where the majority in attendance were all wrapped up in the notion of "buying't club back fo't fans" and all that bollocks.

This despite the guy from the Portsmouth ST clearly stating on the night that for a club like ours, that wasn't the way forward because it wouldn't work and would severely limit future development.

That bit went right over their heads as they were all too busy singing songs about Walking Down The Manny Road and grinning at each other.

So if you suspect that the people running the show are up to no good and you try to challenge them in a room full of average Bolton fans, you can expect to be shouted down and branded "not a proper fan" and quite possible wind up being hounded out.

That's what the twats in charge rely on to keep themselves in power.

i see your point breaders but really at this stage all i want is for someone to represent my views and the views of other fans to the club. I don't expect the ST to run the club but having someone on the board and can sit in on meetings would help address that.

Whether they would have any influence is another issue but we have to give it a go don't we? Lets face it the club's communication with the fans has been disgraceful for years so it can get any worse

i'm not against the supporters trust it's a positive move in horrendous times born from the need to do something about it, i have signed up, However i don't think it's the solution, if we are owned by the ST we are doomed to be a lower league outfit, that's not what we are used to.

If it bridges a gap until a knight on a white charger comes along then job done. anyone who thinks 4000 fans will run the club are deluded yes you will have a say of sorts, but the ST will be run by a small clique either for the good of the club or there own ends?

If BWFC dies, and re emerges as FC Bolton then this fan of 50 years goes down with the ship, my club was an original member who dined at the top two tables, not some new world football club in the 7th tier, i will go back to Tempest United for that .

Either Eddie is in it for himself, if so we are gone, or he genuinely is playing poker to ensure a credible buyer, if it's the latter then we have to accept that we can't know all the dealings at this point.

Usually in life something comes up to solve a problem, lots of people are interested in the survival so while the fat lady sings we have some hope.

Norpig wrote:i see your point breaders but really at this stage all i want is for someone to represent my views and the views of other fans to the club. I don't expect the ST to run the club but having someone on the board and can sit in on meetings would help address that.

Whether they would have any influence is another issue but we have to give it a go don't we? Lets face it the club's communication with the fans has been disgraceful for years so it can get any worse

Good point, well made.
Judgment should be reserved until we're well down the road on this one.

And in my experience, organisations like this one tend to be driven by the people who are most committed and prepared to do the legwork. They may not necessarily be the brightest and best and they may have dubious motivations for doing it, but that's irrelevant because their actions enable the organisation to work. If the structure is in place whereby the members can ensure the leaders stick to the business objectives there should be no problem.

This is, albeit in different times a throwback to the early 80s when a certain Nat Lofthouse got wheeled out alongside Alf Davies to launch LIFELINE, at the time we were as bad if not in a more precarious position financially, I see us now as I did then, we pulled together, we got through it, and we grew stronger over time, history has a habit of repeating itself, we will come out of this alreet in the end, as we have always done.

Breadman wrote:

Chairmanda wrote:club has just released a statement to say it can not re assure staff they will be paid in January, or commit that if they are, it will be on due date. If this isn't trading whilst insolvent, I am not sure what is....

Probably unfair to ask you this but you obviously know more about this stuff than the majority on here, Mand:

Could the club be recalled to the Court before Feb 22nd if they appear to be in breach of the terms of the adjournment, ie not fulfilling the commitments upon which it was granted and failing to honour its terms?

the court will have put limits and blocks on what can, and can not be paid in the interim till Feb 22nd. I imagine paying staff is on the "yes you must do this" list, but it appears from reports today that in order to sell the car park a ransom strip first has to be bought to add to the land parcel (would love to know who from) and buying new assets will definitely be on the "are you mad, you cant spend money you haven't got" list, hence the club going back to court tomorrow to try to get this restriction lifted, so they can buy more land, and then be able to sell the car park, and then pay the staff

Chairmanda wrote:

Breadman wrote:

Chairmanda wrote:club has just released a statement to say it can not re assure staff they will be paid in January, or commit that if they are, it will be on due date. If this isn't trading whilst insolvent, I am not sure what is....

Probably unfair to ask you this but you obviously know more about this stuff than the majority on here, Mand:

Could the club be recalled to the Court before Feb 22nd if they appear to be in breach of the terms of the adjournment, ie not fulfilling the commitments upon which it was granted and failing to honour its terms?

the court will have put limits and blocks on what can, and can not be paid in the interim till Feb 22nd. I imagine paying staff is on the "yes you must do this" list, but it appears from reports today that in order to sell the car park a ransom strip first has to be bought to add to the land parcel (would love to know who from) and buying new assets will definitely be on the "are you mad, you cant spend money you haven't got" list, hence the club going back to court tomorrow to try to get this restriction lifted, so they can buy more land, and then be able to sell the car park, and then pay the staff

I have to say that the court may well take a dim view of this having already been convinced that the appropriate payments would be made. The judge will probably want to know why they weren't told of this requirement beforehand and I suspect the attitude of the court may swing towards HMRC a little - which means BWFC will have to have all their ducks in a row before the next court date.

That's selling a car park we don't actually own. :Puzzling roll eyes looking at a pile of BS:
Have a read of this if you haven't already and the diagram a poster placed in the comments section. Scary stuff indeed. Someone is for the high jump.

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Bollotom2014 wrote:That's selling a car park we don't actually own. :Puzzling roll eyes looking at a pile of BS:
Have a read of this if you haven't already and the diagram a poster placed in the comments section. Scary stuff indeed. Someone is for the high jump.

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Will someone do us a favour and foreward this to Alexis Mostrous at the Guardian newspaper. I'l do it when I get home if no one has done it before. Google search him, if you want to know who he is!