Atheism

Fabians Right Peg wrote:

wanderlust wrote:In the beginning there was nothing  presumably. (If not, what created it?)
Then there was something.
Something created something out of nothing.
Whatever that creative force is/was = God.

The existence or otherwise of God has nothing to do with Atheism which is a human belief structure for those who don't believe in God. So if God is proven to exist, it won't end Atheism as people can and will still believe anything they are capable of believing.

Why must you start with nothing, the laws of physics state that you can not create energy or matter just change it from one form to another so you could argue there was always something and no need for creation.

the existence of nothing is difficult to prove since it can not be measured or quantified as it does not exist?

If you begin with something it's not the beginning is it? so the same logic applies to the concept of creation/Creator whether we're talking about the existence of matter as we recognise it or simply the creation of a force that causes change. Big Bang theory is dependent on the pre-existence of gaseous matter so what created the matter and the forces that allowed the Big Bang to occur? 
Perhaps if we recognise time as a human construct by which contextualise our own existence then maybe creation occurs in the future when we may even create ourselves and history as we see it?

The problem is, we are all geared up to think of things in terms we can easily understand and that doesn't help with getting your head round such ideas as "before time existed" and "when there was truly nothing in the universe".

Because we automatically view these things from our own perspective.

If you consider a period (pre-BB) when there was no time and nothing existed, you do so by visualising a big empty space.

But you're doing it in a framework which has you as the viewer on the outside, so for you, time passes whilst you are considering all this and that's what causes the problems when trying to get your head round it.

You have to accept that there's no passage of time in that void because time is a construct we've come up with to provide some linear context to life.

So there really was no time before the BB.

And that's the hardest bit to get your head round.

my head hurts

I wonder if angels wear underpants?

Time may be an illusory construct, but most people believe they and the physical universe exist in a cogito ergo sum kind of way, so although time (a construct) may not have existed pre BB, either matter existed pre BB (which must have been created somehow - and therefore the Creator exists) or it didn't in which case something created matter out of nothing at the time of the BB and whatever did that would be the Creator.
Not likely to be a "being" as we would recognise it but more likely a creative force. 
Either way, existence exists ergo creation occurred.

wanderlust wrote:Time may be an illusory construct, but most people believe they and the physical universe exist in a cogito ergo sum kind of way, so although time (a construct) may not have existed pre BB, either matter existed pre BB (which must have been created somehow - and therefore the Creator exists) or it didn't in which case something created matter out of nothing at the time of the BB and whatever did that would be the Creator.
Not likely to be a "being" as we would recognise it but more likely a creative force. 
Either way, existence exists ergo creation occurred.

thats cleared that up then 

i feel like i've stumbled into an Open University lecture reading all this

Norpig wrote:i feel like i've stumbled into an Open University lecture reading all this

We're talking about "God" as the creative force so I suppose when it comes to the existence of matter it's literally a mass debate. 

Have you just made a theoretical physics based wanking gag?

Now that, ladies and gents, is what sets Nuts apart from the other BWFC sites out there.

(I'm not saying it makes us better, it just sets us apart....)

Norpig wrote:try actually listening to it first before spouting rubbish AD. He doesn't believe in God, that's the whole point of his answer 

I know that, his lifestyle is a dead giveaway for a start.

I know what awaits and you guys are in for a shock,it's not what we have been lead to believe.

i know i shouldn't ask but go on, break it to us AD

This is gonna be good.......

In a min I'm just havin a chilly dog n Dr Pepper.

wanderlust wrote:Time may be an illusory construct, but most people believe they and the physical universe exist in a cogito ergo sum kind of way, so although time (a construct) may not have existed pre BB, either matter existed pre BB (which must have been created somehow - and therefore the Creator exists) or it didn't in which case something created matter out of nothing at the time of the BB and whatever did that would be the Creator.
Not likely to be a "being" as we would recognise it but more likely a creative force. 
Either way, existence exists ergo creation occurred.

That's if you go with the big bang theory, however apply it to the big Bounce (not big bonce) theory and you don't need creation, rather all the matter in the universe has always existed and is in a state of constant change with events like the BB just being significant events at which new universes are created.

Ok I'm going to do this in stages, laugh, swear, take the piss all you want, it has no effect on me at at all and I'm just going to smile.

Firstly don't take what we have been told literally, secondly when you leave this world you don't get to see the creator.

You will be aware of being but not as you were here

this is like the matrix

I reckon Bread is a closet evangelist.