Brexit negotiations

Natasha Whittam wrote:

xmiles wrote:The difference between us is that I see our prospects being much better within the EU (a view shared by most experts and most younger and better educated people)

You really are a knob.

xmiles wrote:Stating a simple fact offends you in some way so you resort to personal abuse? Very impressive.

Natasha Whittam wrote:

xmiles wrote:Stating a simple fact offends you in some way so you resort to personal abuse? Very impressive.

No, the fact you think everyone who voted for Brexit is thick, and those who didn't are better educated.

gloswhite wrote:XM, whereas I can see your desire to have us chained to a lumbering, unelected, and some say doomed, entity, have you not considered that they are not the be all and end all of world trade and politics? Just because we are neighbours, doesn't mean we have to follow slavishly, the same ideals and political views as the EU. its fairly well known, that we had very little voice in any major decisions for the past few years anyway. They have our money, and our commitments, but tend not to entertain our views or ideals. 
Tell me, in a couple of sentences, leaving out the supposed financial benefits/drawbacks, how it is better for us in the EU ?

xmiles wrote:

gloswhite wrote:XM, whereas I can see your desire to have us chained to a lumbering, unelected, and some say doomed, entity, have you not considered that they are not the be all and end all of world trade and politics? Just because we are neighbours, doesn't mean we have to follow slavishly, the same ideals and political views as the EU. its fairly well known, that we had very little voice in any major decisions for the past few years anyway. They have our money, and our commitments, but tend not to entertain our views or ideals. 
Tell me, in a couple of sentences, leaving out the supposed financial benefits/drawbacks, how it is better for us in the EU ?

Happy to oblige gloswhite after you have told me the benefits of leaving the EU.

However I don't understand why you want to exclude the potential financial consequences from this discussion since I think both sides would consider them significant.

gloswhite wrote:

xmiles wrote:

gloswhite wrote:XM, whereas I can see your desire to have us chained to a lumbering, unelected, and some say doomed, entity, have you not considered that they are not the be all and end all of world trade and politics? Just because we are neighbours, doesn't mean we have to follow slavishly, the same ideals and political views as the EU. its fairly well known, that we had very little voice in any major decisions for the past few years anyway. They have our money, and our commitments, but tend not to entertain our views or ideals. 
Tell me, in a couple of sentences, leaving out the supposed financial benefits/drawbacks, how it is better for us in the EU ?

Happy to oblige gloswhite after you have told me the benefits of leaving the EU.

However I don't understand why you want to exclude the potential financial consequences from this discussion since I think both sides would consider them significant.

Nice try XM   You've highlighted my point that all your arguments are centered on money, and we both know that there is far more to it than that, at least some of us do.

gloswhite wrote:XM, whereas I can see your desire to have us chained to a lumbering, unelected, and some say doomed, entity, have you not considered that they are not the be all and end all of world trade and politics? Just because we are neighbours, doesn't mean we have to follow slavishly, the same ideals and political views as the EU. its fairly well known, that we had very little voice in any major decisions for the past few years anyway. They have our money, and our commitments, but tend not to entertain our views or ideals. 
Tell me, in a couple of sentences, leaving out the supposed financial benefits/drawbacks, how it is better for us in the EU ?

JAH wrote:

gloswhite wrote:XM, whereas I can see your desire to have us chained to a lumbering, unelected, and some say doomed, entity, have you not considered that they are not the be all and end all of world trade and politics? Just because we are neighbours, doesn't mean we have to follow slavishly, the same ideals and political views as the EU. its fairly well known, that we had very little voice in any major decisions for the past few years anyway. They have our money, and our commitments, but tend not to entertain our views or ideals. 
Tell me, in a couple of sentences, leaving out the supposed financial benefits/drawbacks, how it is better for us in the EU ?

EASY TRAVEL
LIVING ABROAD
EQUAL PAY & NON-DISCRIMINATION
PAID LEAVE
FOREIGN STUDY
CHEAP FLIGHTS
CHEAP TELEPHONE CALLS
CONSUMER PROTECTION
FOOD LABELLING
CLEAN RIVERS AND CLEAN AIR

gloswhite wrote:

JAH wrote:

gloswhite wrote:XM, whereas I can see your desire to have us chained to a lumbering, unelected, and some say doomed, entity, have you not considered that they are not the be all and end all of world trade and politics? Just because we are neighbours, doesn't mean we have to follow slavishly, the same ideals and political views as the EU. its fairly well known, that we had very little voice in any major decisions for the past few years anyway. They have our money, and our commitments, but tend not to entertain our views or ideals. 
Tell me, in a couple of sentences, leaving out the supposed financial benefits/drawbacks, how it is better for us in the EU ?

EASY TRAVEL
LIVING ABROAD
EQUAL PAY & NON-DISCRIMINATION
PAID LEAVE
FOREIGN STUDY
CHEAP FLIGHTS
CHEAP TELEPHONE CALLS
CONSUMER PROTECTION
FOOD LABELLING
CLEAN RIVERS AND CLEAN AIR

Did nobody ever tell you its rude to shout ? 
What makes you think all the above will finish? (your list looks a bit like me,me,me) There are enough people in this country to ensure these things still go through. We won't become a third world country overnight, and if you had a bit of common sense, you would realise that.

xmiles wrote:Here are 10 benefits of EU membership that we are now giving up:
freedom of UK citizens to live, work and retire anywhere in EU;
access to the Single Market with no tariff barriers or customs procedures;
the EU Working Time Directive which introduced paid holidays for 2 million British employees who did not receive any paid holiday at all and capped the working week at 48 hours;
unified approach to safety regulations regarding drugs, medicine and food labelling;
better rights for workers;
stronger challenge to tax avoiding multi-nationals;
massive subsidies to farming and various poorer regions;
the Good Friday agreement in Ireland;
lots of jobs as various firms migrate their offices/headquarters to the EU.

It is a xenophobic fantasy to describe us as the "whipping boys of Europe". Do you honestly believe that?

We can trade with whoever we want now but we will be in a weaker position to negotiate after we leave. Trump believes in putting America first and why would the EU give us better trading terms than we currently have?

gloswhite wrote:

xmiles wrote:Here are 10 benefits of EU membership that we are now giving up:
freedom of UK citizens to live, work and retire anywhere in EU;
access to the Single Market with no tariff barriers or customs procedures;
the EU Working Time Directive which introduced paid holidays for 2 million British employees who did not receive any paid holiday at all and capped the working week at 48 hours;
unified approach to safety regulations regarding drugs, medicine and food labelling;
better rights for workers;
stronger challenge to tax avoiding multi-nationals;
massive subsidies to farming and various poorer regions;
the Good Friday agreement in Ireland;
lots of jobs as various firms migrate their offices/headquarters to the EU.

It is a xenophobic fantasy to describe us as the "whipping boys of Europe". Do you honestly believe that?

We can trade with whoever we want now but we will be in a weaker position to negotiate after we leave. Trump believes in putting America first and why would the EU give us better trading terms than we currently have?

Agreed on all your list, but what makes you think it will all end overnight ?
'Xenophobic' ? really ? Is that instead of calling me racist ? Hhhmmm. 
If you can give me an example of when we managed to push changes through the EU, that mainly benefited the UK, and wasn't either vetoed, or voted down, let me know. Our only worth to the EU, is our money, as politically, we are ignored. The current situation has now given other countries the opportunity to openly insult us. 
I'm fast losing faith with our negotiating team, piss poor performances that are now picked up, and commented on by our so-called 'friends'. Now that we have shown a shambolic front, and we somehow remained in the EU, how would we be seen, and treated ? I think we've shot our bolt with the EU, whatever happens, and trying to cling on to their coat-tails will reduce our standing, and future dealings with all of them.

Natasha Whittam wrote:I went to Norway a couple of years ago.

I didn't see people fighting in the streets over the last Haribo, I didn't see people bringing their cash in wheelbarrows to buy one loaf of bread, and I didn't see a country in ruin.

Guess what, they're a European country who aren't in the EU.

Natasha Whittam wrote:I went to Norway a couple of years ago.

I didn't see people fighting in the streets over the last Haribo, I didn't see people bringing their cash in wheelbarrows to buy one loaf of bread, and I didn't see a country in ruin.

Guess what, they're a European country who aren't in the EU.