Oh That's Alright Then

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-42552267

Of course if the Tories actually funded the NHS properly maybe he wouldn't need to make completely meaningless and hypocritical apologies.

Don't start this shit again, the NHS has been underfunded for 30 years, several governments have failed to get a grip of this problem.

Why fund the NHS when you can prop up your failing Government by giving a billion to the DUP? 

Norpig wrote:Why fund the NHS when you can prop up your failing Government by giving a billion to the DUP? 

The Tories should have been booted out for their reckless bribe spending to gain power again.

Because Labour wouldn't have done the same thing would they .

The only future for the NHS is to start charging for non life changing treatment, and to make people who cause their own conditions cough up for their treatment.

Why should a patient with a rare cancer not get the drugs they need when someone is getting IVF on the NHS?

Harsh I know, but it's the only way forward.

That's a slippery slope towards privatisation Nat, would anyone really want that?

Privatisation  - which would invariably lead to foreign ownership of services - is looking like the most likely option within 15 years unless the NHS can become more economically viable. The issue is what percentage of our taxes the Government is willing to spend on our healthcare and with the cost of Brexit and the absence of international trade deals the overall pot will shrink as time goes by until the excellent Spanish and French medical service providers step in and save the day, just as foreign companies won nearly every power provision and transport contract.

Natasha Whittam wrote:Don't start this shit again, the NHS has been underfunded for 30 years, several governments have failed to get a grip of this problem.

Some have done a lot worse than others! Here are some facts. In particular if you look at chart 6 you can see that the Labour party consistently spends more on the NHS than the Tories. Chart 7 shows how we now spend less on health than most European countries. All this at a time when demand is increasing.

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=4&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwitgpLL_rvYAhVXOMAKHS69CuwQFgg8MAM&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bbc.co.uk%2Fnews%2Fhealth-38887694&usg=AOvVaw0hOpLAxe2n4l0ruidlYAWJ

Norpig wrote:That's a slippery slope towards privatisation Nat, would anyone really want that?

People might not necessarily want it, but it's the only way forward in my opinion. The NHS should be there when your life depends on it, not for a broken arm when you fall down pissed on a Friday night.

People have gotten too used to free healthcare, but the NHS cannot sustain that any longer. Sadly, no politician is going to dare try something radical like that though, votes are far more important than a few lives unfortunately.

Police aren't happy either...

Natasha Whittam wrote:

The only future for the NHS is ..... to make people who cause their own conditions cough up for their treatment.

Totally agree....but there was an "expert" on Sky's Press Preview last night saying the complete opposite: "Live your life selfishly with no regard for the health consequences of your lifestyle but still expect the NHS to bail to bail you out" was his unbelievable credo.

I was shouting at the TV for the others in the debate to ask the idiot how he'd feel if he or his wife/children had some ghastly ailment through no fault of their own but could not get treatment or a bed because the hospital was full of obese drunkards on drugs and thirty cigs a day.  
I had to switch off in total frustration that anyone could advocate this viewpoint

Natasha Whittam wrote:Don't start this shit again, the NHS has been underfunded for 30 years, several governments have failed to get a grip of this problem.

Trash, on just about every measure Labour's record is an improvement on what has been on offer since 2010. You make this nonsense argument every time and it's baseless, present some facts to support or give it a rest.

The argument there is no difference between the parties is now redundant, there is a clear choice on offer between continued austerity and investment. Labour's manifesto was popular because it made a clear distinction from the current path, I hope they get the opportunity to put it into action sooner rather than later.

okocha wrote:

Natasha Whittam wrote:

The only future for the NHS is ..... to make people who cause their own conditions cough up for their treatment.

Totally agree....but there was an "expert" on Sky's Press Preview last night saying the complete opposite: "Live your life selfishly with no regard for the health consequences of your lifestyle but still expect the NHS to bail to bail you out" was his unbelievable credo.

I was shouting at the TV for the others in the debate to ask the idiot how he'd feel if he or his wife/children had some ghastly ailment through no fault of their own but could not get treatment or a bed because the hospital was full of obese drunkards on drugs and thirty cigs a day.  
I had to switch off in total frustration that anyone could advocate this viewpoint

Can of worms that one. I can just imagine the incessant legal battles to define if illness is self-inflicted or not in hundreds of thousands of cases plus the individual and class action suing of food and drink manufacturers, advertisers, film and TV companies, newspapers, councils, the Government and anyone else who could be blamed for any particular condition. We already live in a litigious society but this would be a field day for the legal profession.

T.R.O.Y wrote:Trash, on just about every measure Labour's record is an improvement on what has been on offer since 2010. You make this nonsense argument every time and it's baseless, present some facts to support or give it a rest.

The argument there is no difference between the parties is now redundant, there is a clear choice on offer between continued austerity and investment. Labour's manifesto was popular because it made a clear distinction from the current path, I hope they get the opportunity to put it into action sooner rather than later.

I voted for Labour so I can see both sides of any argument. You seem to be in a fantasy world where the NHS was hunky dory under Labour and everyone got their hospital treatment within hours of seeing their GP. Perhaps Labour did spend more, but it was never enough, nowhere near enough. Because to make a difference you have to put taxes up.

And no party wants to say/do that when the next election could go either way.

T.R.O.Y wrote:

Natasha Whittam wrote:Don't start this shit again, the NHS has been underfunded for 30 years, several governments have failed to get a grip of this problem.

Trash, on just about every measure Labour's record is an improvement on what has been on offer since 2010. You make this nonsense argument every time and it's baseless, present some facts to support or give it a rest.

The argument there is no difference between the parties is now redundant, there is a clear choice on offer between continued austerity and investment. Labour's manifesto was popular because it made a clear distinction from the current path, I hope they get the opportunity to put it into action sooner rather than later.

When Labour were last in power, costs were low. Costs since have sky rocketed and there are a couple more tiers of management to be paid for. Latest projection is a further £30 Billion needed by 2020.
  Now it's going to be a brave government but it's about time for a taxation change. I reckon everyone should be taxed an extra penny or two, even taking the same percentage from pensioners and benefits claimants. It's the only fair way to do it.  And get the employers to pay a fair wage without the need of working tax credits. 
  Having said that we could give £30 Billion to the NHS tomorrow and they would still say it wasn't enough. I'm lucky. I get treatment within a few hours if I need it but it makes me angry to see civvy folk queuing in hospitals on trolleys, in ambulances and in corridors. Perhaps the super hospitals are too much now and regional infirmaries better.
  I had occasion to go to the old military hospital at Woolwich a couple of weeks ago. It's now a modern super-hospital. Took me about fifteen minutes to walk from one end to the other. 2000 meals three times a day, hundreds of medical staff and support staff. Must cost a fortune to run and that is just one hospital. Frightening to think how it will be in a few years.
   It's more than a political football now. We should all be involved.

wanderlust wrote:Can of worms that one. I can just imagine the incessant legal battles to define if illness is self-inflicted or not in hundreds of thousands of cases plus the individual and class action suing of food and drink manufacturers, advertisers, film and TV companies, newspapers, councils, the Government and anyone else who could be blamed for any particular condition. We already live in a litigious society but this would be a field day for the legal profession.

I accept it could be difficult to implement, but it could be done. Of course there will be borderline cases, but generally a doctor knows whether you brought this on yourself or you are an innocent victim.

Bollotom2014 wrote:

T.R.O.Y wrote:

Natasha Whittam wrote:Don't start this shit again, the NHS has been underfunded for 30 years, several governments have failed to get a grip of this problem.

Trash, on just about every measure Labour's record is an improvement on what has been on offer since 2010. You make this nonsense argument every time and it's baseless, present some facts to support or give it a rest.

The argument there is no difference between the parties is now redundant, there is a clear choice on offer between continued austerity and investment. Labour's manifesto was popular because it made a clear distinction from the current path, I hope they get the opportunity to put it into action sooner rather than later.

When Labour were last in power, costs were low. Costs since have sky rocketed and there are a couple more tiers of management to be paid for. Latest projection is a further £30 Billion needed by 2020.
  Now it's going to be a brave government but it's about time for a taxation change. I reckon everyone should be taxed an extra penny or two, even taking the same percentage from pensioners and benefits claimants. It's the only fair way to do it.  And get the employers to pay a fair wage without the need of working tax credits. 
  Having said that we could give £30 Billion to the NHS tomorrow and they would still say it wasn't enough. I'm lucky. I get treatment within a few hours if I need it but it makes me angry to see civvy folk queuing in hospitals on trolleys, in ambulances and in corridors. Perhaps the super hospitals are too much now and regional infirmaries better.
  I had occasion to go to the old military hospital at Woolwich a couple of weeks ago. It's now a modern super-hospital. Took me about fifteen minutes to walk from one end to the other. 2000 meals three times a day, hundreds of medical staff and support staff. Must cost a fortune to run and that is just one hospital. Frightening to think how it will be in a few years.
   It's more than a political football now. We should all be involved.

Costs have risen at a reasonably steady rate since the 70s, until 04/05 where it began to increase at a faster rate. Large population growth were bound to cause this, but it also coincided with a boom in the economy before the economy crashed. 

Completely agree that increasing taxes is the way to go on this one, Labour are willing to do this but increasing taxes is something the Tories are ideologically opposed to, it is incredibly unlikely they will go for that. 

More likely they'll lean on the private sector (Virgin Health contracts last week), Blair's government are culpable for introducing this option through PFI, but we should be reversing the damage that's been done not exacerbating it.

Since some people won't take the trouble to actually look at the link I posted earlier here is a simple fact for them:

Since the NHS was created in 1948, the average annual rise in NHS spending has been just over 4%. During the Labour years under Blair and Brown this was closer to 7%. Under the current Tory government it is 1%.

What are hospitals and GP surgeries in London full of ?

Angry Dad wrote:What are hospitals and GP surgeries in London full of ?

Patients.