BREAKING NEWS - Three academy players leave BWFC

wanderlust wrote:I'm left wondering what's the point of having a successful academy? 
There's a cost attached and that's fine if we sell players on to cover the bills, but letting contracts run down and getting nothing for them is just poor business.

Surely the point is that producing Clough,Vela(still saleable) and Holden saved the club, the likes of King are obviously not regarded as good enough.

The fans always want to see kids brought through however time and time again we release them and the club are usually proved right. look at the kid at Kilmarnock he was rated higher than King but proved to be a dud. Trust Lee and Kelly and co.

wessy wrote:

wanderlust wrote:I'm left wondering what's the point of having a successful academy? 
There's a cost attached and that's fine if we sell players on to cover the bills, but letting contracts run down and getting nothing for them is just poor business.

Surely the point is that producing Clough,Vela(still saleable) and Holden saved the club, the likes of King are obviously not regarded as good enough.

The fans always want to see kids brought through however time and time again we release them and the club are usually proved right. look at the kid at Kilmarnock he was rated higher than King but proved to be a dud. Trust Lee and Kelly and co.

Not the point I was making Wessy. Trusting the staff isn't in question. It's simply a matter of trying to get some money for the ones who they don't think will make our team instead of running down their contracts and giving them away for nothing.

Such as Kellett for example? Or Cian Bolger? Nobodies arguing you should get value when it’s there, you seem to be suggesting that the players who have been let go had value though - when clearly their coaches disagree with you.

wanderlust wrote:

Sluffy wrote:Just to put things in context a little bit for the likes of Wanderlust, one of the people who responded to Lonsdale tweet above was former academy player from 2016, Quade Taylor, now 24 years old.

On doing a bit of checking he was a regular last season for Dulwich Hamlet who played in the Bostick Premier Division (we probably know it better as the Isthmian League) - which is a regional seventh tier league.

Do you really think teams at this level come calling with their chequebooks to buy up all our better academy players?

Do you think the likes of Lee, Philips and Parkinson can't tell the difference between Championship level players from Isthmian standard ones - when they see them train every single day they are with us?

There are lots of professional and semi-professional players in the Isthmian (Bostik) League. Fully appreciate that continuous improvement requires the occasional cull having played alongside many of the cullees over the years however the point I'm trying to make is that whilst some never make it as professionals, plenty do albeit at a lower level than they'd hoped for and whilst the income from a sale may not be much in the scheme of things, especially when you get a few tiers down, there are small clubs with big ambitions who are willing to part with money to achieve them.
And some return on investment is a damned sight better than none, especially when our own financial future is still far from secure.

So just to be clear - I'm not suggesting that the lads released are going to play at a high level or command a substantial fee, but I am saying that some ROI is possible providing we don't let contracts run down and the club is active in the market at all levels - which has the added bonus of improving the scouting system for the next Jamie Vardy.

Do you even know what the hell you are talking about?

Contracts HAVE to run down, either that or renewed.

If we renewed contracts then they are no longer academy players but full professional ones, so we are starting to talk about £1,000+ per week contracts.

Are you really suggesting we sign ALL our academy players to full professional contracts rather than release them when their academy contracts expire - just on the off chance some non league club will not only match or better their professional contract but also pay a transfer fee for them?

You're totally out of your mind mate.

Even clubs like City, United, Chelsea, Liverpool, etc, release their academy players who have not made their mark with them - the pick of their generation usually don't forget!

Many of those, the majority of them, don't end up at professional league clubs, yet you think WE - little old Bolton - should never release any of our academy players but give them all professional contracts instead - just on the off chance that clubs such as Dulwich Hamlet swoop in for them with million pounds bids?

You've lost the plot big time.

Bit much to use capital letters in the thread title for three nobodies leaving

Kane57 wrote:Bit much to use capital letters in the thread title for three nobodies leaving

DOES IT MATTER?

Kane57 wrote:Bit much to use capital letters in the thread title for three nobodies leaving

It was me that edited LT's title as two then three players were released - and possibly more to come throughout the following few hours possibly.

I did it with the best intentions of alerting fellow Nut readers as to what was actually going on at the time, at the club.

Simply just trying to make the site as good as I could for everybody's enjoyment.

So if you are having a pop at anyone it should be aimed at me and no one else.

Thank you.

Sluffy wrote:

wanderlust wrote:

Sluffy wrote:Just to put things in context a little bit for the likes of Wanderlust, one of the people who responded to Lonsdale tweet above was former academy player from 2016, Quade Taylor, now 24 years old.

On doing a bit of checking he was a regular last season for Dulwich Hamlet who played in the Bostick Premier Division (we probably know it better as the Isthmian League) - which is a regional seventh tier league.

Do you really think teams at this level come calling with their chequebooks to buy up all our better academy players?

Do you think the likes of Lee, Philips and Parkinson can't tell the difference between Championship level players from Isthmian standard ones - when they see them train every single day they are with us?

There are lots of professional and semi-professional players in the Isthmian (Bostik) League. Fully appreciate that continuous improvement requires the occasional cull having played alongside many of the cullees over the years however the point I'm trying to make is that whilst some never make it as professionals, plenty do albeit at a lower level than they'd hoped for and whilst the income from a sale may not be much in the scheme of things, especially when you get a few tiers down, there are small clubs with big ambitions who are willing to part with money to achieve them.
And some return on investment is a damned sight better than none, especially when our own financial future is still far from secure.

So just to be clear - I'm not suggesting that the lads released are going to play at a high level or command a substantial fee, but I am saying that some ROI is possible providing we don't let contracts run down and the club is active in the market at all levels - which has the added bonus of improving the scouting system for the next Jamie Vardy.

Do you even know what the hell you are talking about?

Contracts HAVE to run down, either that or renewed.

If we renewed contracts then they are no longer academy players but full professional ones, so we are starting to talk about £1,000+ per week contracts.

Are you really suggesting we sign ALL our academy players to full professional contracts rather than release them when their academy contracts expire - just on the off chance some non league club will not only match or better their professional contract but also pay a transfer fee for them?

You're totally out of your mind mate.

Even clubs like City, United, Chelsea, Liverpool, etc, release their academy players who have not made their mark with them - the pick of their generation usually don't forget!

Many of those, the majority of them, don't end up at professional league clubs, yet you think WE - little old Bolton - should never release any of our academy players but give them all professional contracts instead - just on the off chance that clubs such as Dulwich Hamlet swoop in for them with million pounds bids?

You've lost the plot big time.

Fair enough. If you think that the club shouldn't try to get money for the players they've invested so heavily in you are entitled to that opinion.

wanderlust wrote:

Sluffy wrote:

wanderlust wrote:

Sluffy wrote:Just to put things in context a little bit for the likes of Wanderlust, one of the people who responded to Lonsdale tweet above was former academy player from 2016, Quade Taylor, now 24 years old.

On doing a bit of checking he was a regular last season for Dulwich Hamlet who played in the Bostick Premier Division (we probably know it better as the Isthmian League) - which is a regional seventh tier league.

Do you really think teams at this level come calling with their chequebooks to buy up all our better academy players?

Do you think the likes of Lee, Philips and Parkinson can't tell the difference between Championship level players from Isthmian standard ones - when they see them train every single day they are with us?

There are lots of professional and semi-professional players in the Isthmian (Bostik) League. Fully appreciate that continuous improvement requires the occasional cull having played alongside many of the cullees over the years however the point I'm trying to make is that whilst some never make it as professionals, plenty do albeit at a lower level than they'd hoped for and whilst the income from a sale may not be much in the scheme of things, especially when you get a few tiers down, there are small clubs with big ambitions who are willing to part with money to achieve them.
And some return on investment is a damned sight better than none, especially when our own financial future is still far from secure.

So just to be clear - I'm not suggesting that the lads released are going to play at a high level or command a substantial fee, but I am saying that some ROI is possible providing we don't let contracts run down and the club is active in the market at all levels - which has the added bonus of improving the scouting system for the next Jamie Vardy.

Do you even know what the hell you are talking about?

Contracts HAVE to run down, either that or renewed.

If we renewed contracts then they are no longer academy players but full professional ones, so we are starting to talk about £1,000+ per week contracts.

Are you really suggesting we sign ALL our academy players to full professional contracts rather than release them when their academy contracts expire - just on the off chance some non league club will not only match or better their professional contract but also pay a transfer fee for them?

You're totally out of your mind mate.

Even clubs like City, United, Chelsea, Liverpool, etc, release their academy players who have not made their mark with them - the pick of their generation usually don't forget!

Many of those, the majority of them, don't end up at professional league clubs, yet you think WE - little old Bolton - should never release any of our academy players but give them all professional contracts instead - just on the off chance that clubs such as Dulwich Hamlet swoop in for them with million pounds bids?

You've lost the plot big time.

Fair enough. If you think that the club shouldn't try to get money for the players they've invested so heavily in you are entitled to that opinion.

Certainly not in the moonman way you think they should.

It seems I'm not alone either as every one of the 92 league clubs in this country and all of the 42 clubs in Scotland don't automatically sign all their out of contract academy players to professional ones (and thereby incurring even more money on them!) on the bizarre notion that non league clubs will be fighting amongst themselves to spend loads of money to buy them all up.

It's the most ridiculous thing you've said in years, months, weeks, days!

Sluffy wrote:

wanderlust wrote:

Sluffy wrote:

wanderlust wrote:

Sluffy wrote:Just to put things in context a little bit for the likes of Wanderlust, one of the people who responded to Lonsdale tweet above was former academy player from 2016, Quade Taylor, now 24 years old.

On doing a bit of checking he was a regular last season for Dulwich Hamlet who played in the Bostick Premier Division (we probably know it better as the Isthmian League) - which is a regional seventh tier league.

Do you really think teams at this level come calling with their chequebooks to buy up all our better academy players?

Do you think the likes of Lee, Philips and Parkinson can't tell the difference between Championship level players from Isthmian standard ones - when they see them train every single day they are with us?

There are lots of professional and semi-professional players in the Isthmian (Bostik) League. Fully appreciate that continuous improvement requires the occasional cull having played alongside many of the cullees over the years however the point I'm trying to make is that whilst some never make it as professionals, plenty do albeit at a lower level than they'd hoped for and whilst the income from a sale may not be much in the scheme of things, especially when you get a few tiers down, there are small clubs with big ambitions who are willing to part with money to achieve them.
And some return on investment is a damned sight better than none, especially when our own financial future is still far from secure.

So just to be clear - I'm not suggesting that the lads released are going to play at a high level or command a substantial fee, but I am saying that some ROI is possible providing we don't let contracts run down and the club is active in the market at all levels - which has the added bonus of improving the scouting system for the next Jamie Vardy.

Do you even know what the hell you are talking about?

Contracts HAVE to run down, either that or renewed.

If we renewed contracts then they are no longer academy players but full professional ones, so we are starting to talk about £1,000+ per week contracts.

Are you really suggesting we sign ALL our academy players to full professional contracts rather than release them when their academy contracts expire - just on the off chance some non league club will not only match or better their professional contract but also pay a transfer fee for them?

You're totally out of your mind mate.

Even clubs like City, United, Chelsea, Liverpool, etc, release their academy players who have not made their mark with them - the pick of their generation usually don't forget!

Many of those, the majority of them, don't end up at professional league clubs, yet you think WE - little old Bolton - should never release any of our academy players but give them all professional contracts instead - just on the off chance that clubs such as Dulwich Hamlet swoop in for them with million pounds bids?

You've lost the plot big time.

Fair enough. If you think that the club shouldn't try to get money for the players they've invested so heavily in you are entitled to that opinion.

Certainly not in the moonman way you think they should.

It seems I'm not alone either as every one of the 92 league clubs in this country and all of the 42 clubs in Scotland don't automatically sign all their out of contract academy players to professional ones (and thereby incurring even more money on them!) on the bizarre notion that non league clubs will be fighting amongst themselves to spend loads of money to buy them all up.

It's the most ridiculous thing you've said in years, months, weeks, days!

Although I didn't at any time suggest clubs (non-league or otherwise) would be "fighting amongst themselves" to sign our players, I still think you have the right to express an opinion regardless of how much you misinterpret what I'm saying in order to vomit your bile all over these pages.
You're always good for a laugh so keep it coming.

wanderlust wrote:Although I didn't at any time suggest clubs (non-league or otherwise) would be "fighting amongst themselves" to sign our players, I still think you have the right to express an opinion regardless of how much you misinterpret what I'm saying in order to vomit your bile all over these pages.
You're always good for a laugh so keep it coming.

Misinterpret what you are saying!!!

Go on then, an academy player comes to the end of his contract and the academy director, his staff and the clubs manager ALL agree that he simply isn't good enough for us at the level we are - so instead of releasing him (like every other league club in the country would do) you say we should hand him a professional contract (because in your head somebody will want to buy him).

So we hand the young man a contract for £1,000 per week (£50,000 for the year - which seems to be the going rate).

What do we do next?  

He's not good enough for the first team, so he doesn't play there.

He's no longer on an academy contract, so he can't play for them.

So he can't play for us - whilst we pay him a grand every week.

We could loan him if anyone wants him - but that is almost certainly a non league club - and even then at the sixth or seventh level of football in this country (as per Dulwich or FC Manchester, etc).

Will these clubs be paying him £1,000 per week - no way.

Can they afford to buy him for the thousands we have invested in him - nope.

Even if they wanted to pay money for him the fees for young players are set by the football tribunals - always for a fraction of what the selling club values them at.


Not only that you don't want any of the academy players to be out of contract - so every time their contracts run down we give them a £50,000 professional contract?

For players we KNOW are not good enough to play for us!

How financially logical and sustainable is that?

It's just throwing good money after bad down a massive black hole.

It's sheer madness and why no club in the country does it!

Or even dreams of doing it!


And what vile is this that I'm supposed to be vomiting?

I'm simply pointing out how absolutely stupid your whole notion is.

Utterly, uterly bonkers really.

Lusty can you finish reeling him in now and put him out of his (and our) misery please? 

Norpig wrote:Lusty can you finish reeling him in now and put him out of his (and our) misery please? 

The sad thing is that he really believes what he posts - he doesn't do it to wum or troll.

He's one of those who speaks without thinking.

Norpig wrote:Lusty can you finish reeling him in now and put him out of his (and our) misery please? 

 Where's the fun in that? 

Truly pathetic, one and all

Kane57 wrote:Truly pathetic, one and all

You do realise your own words would include you also (already having posted on the thread before), or did you not think things through first?

No, I was talking about your role in the last 24hr or so. About bar for the course at the moment from what I can see.

Morale is high.

Look, the fact is that 95% plus of ALL academy players wind up being released at 18 regardless of the club they're with. Obviously that percentage is a bit lower for the "big" clubs who can cherry pick the very best kids and can sell their 'failures' to league one and two but for everyone else it's either first team or gone for the most part. If the staff at BWFC believe certain kids who looked promising last year aren't going to either make the first team or command an actual fee from somewhere else then there's no option but to cut our losses and stop wasting both the player and their own time. If these released players come good later then good for them but BWFC can't afford to keep paying someone on the off chance that might happen. If the youth team staff believe it was appropriate to release these three lads then I'm not going to sit here and say they're wrong when I haven't watched them train and play every day.