2018 Budget

Totally opposed to any more privatisation of the NHS but there are some procedures like IVF which are not medically required, they are matters of choice. In addition there are time wasters who call 999 or go to A&E or GPs when they don't need to.

However the fundamental problem remains this government's criminal underfunding of the NHS over the past 8 years. We have one of the lowest levels of doctors, nurses and hospital beds per head of population in the western world and sadly too few people realise this.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwi3r_rdqLDeAhVlDsAKHZgOCJ8QFjAAegQIBxAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nationalhealthexecutive.com%2FHealth-Care-News%2Fnhs-has-one-of-lowest-levels-of-doctors-and-nurses-in-western-world&usg=AOvVaw0eapqr6Q5qaoY7GZFgigiM

Norpig wrote:Once you start charging for services on the NHS it will start a slide to full blown privatisation which cannot be allowed to happen.

It doesn't have to be. It's quite clear what diseases are self-inflicted. Don't you think it's wrong that some cancer patients are being denied expensive drugs in one room, and down the hall someone is having £10k or £15k spent on their IVF treatment.

There shouldn't be a postcode lottery, it should simply be "we pay for this" and "we don't pay for that", same all over the UK.

It baffles me that anyone would think this isn't a fair way of helping the NHS.

xmiles wrote:However the fundamental problem remains this government's criminal underfunding of the NHS over the past 8 years.

Oh get a grip, the NHS has been underfunded for decades. Don't make out this is simply a Tory issue.

But what happens when the patients with self inflicted illnesses refuse to pay for treatment and then become seriously ill? Do you turn round and say no we can't treat you? They will still end up being seen by the NHS one way or another.

I do agree about cancer treatments but generally drugs are only refused funding because they are hideously expensive and may only prolong life by a matter of months.

As for IVF, its a very emotive issue. Do we really want to say to people desperate to have children that sorry you're going to have to pay?  I think the NHS pay for 3 cycles then after that you have to fund yourself.

Natasha Whittam wrote:

xmiles wrote:However the fundamental problem remains this government's criminal underfunding of the NHS over the past 8 years.

Oh get a grip, the NHS has been underfunded for decades. Don't make out this is simply a Tory issue.

You are completely wrong. Under Labour funding increased but since 2010 it has declined in real terms. Just look at the FACTS for once. Here for example:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwj1kZ_vr7DeAhWBJMAKHc2NBhEQFjAAegQICBAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.nuffieldtrust.org.uk%2Fnews-item%2F70-years-of-nhs-spending&usg=AOvVaw1UZlXx-A2WlJIYtckwZAwy

I am completely right, this has been an issue my whole lifetime.

Norpig wrote:But what happens when the patients with self inflicted illnesses refuse to pay for treatment and then become seriously ill? Do you turn round and say no we can't treat you?

That's exactly what I would do. Yes, it would be tough but eventually people might get the message that the NHS isn't going to bail you out if you continue to abuse your body.

Norpig wrote:As for IVF, its a very emotive issue. Do we really want to say to people desperate to have children that sorry you're going to have to pay?  I think the NHS pay for 3 cycles then after that you have to fund yourself.  

Yes it's a sensitive issue, and I feel for those people, but the NHS is in crisis and some tough decisions need to be made. We can't keep going through life being scared to make tough decisions that might upset a small group of people.

Natasha Whittam wrote:I am completely right, this has been an issue my whole lifetime.

No you are completely wrong. You obviously haven't even looked at any factual evidence. Just for once in your life look at some FACTS.

xmiles wrote:No you are completely wrong. You obviously haven't even looked at any factual evidence. Just for once in your life look at some FACTS.

Just because you post a link doesn't make it a fact.

You're blinkered in virtually everything you do by Tory hatred.

Natasha Whittam wrote:

xmiles wrote:No you are completely wrong. You obviously haven't even looked at any factual evidence. Just for once in your life look at some FACTS.

Just because you post a link doesn't make it a fact.

You're blinkered in virtually everything you do by Tory hatred.

Have you even read it? It is a report from the Nuffield Trust, an independent health think tank. It demonstrates quite clearly that the Tories have seriously underfunded the NHS since 2010 compared to the much higher levels of funding provided by Labour.

You are so obsessed by point scoring that you won't even bother to look at factual evidence which undermines your whole argument.

Natasha Whittam wrote:https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-labour-arent-telling-the-full-story-on-nhs-plans

Neither party has provided sufficient detail about how they would fund this money.

This doesn't in any way remove the fact that that the Tories have underfunded the NHS since 2010 in contrast to the higher levels of funding previously provided by Labour.

wanderlust wrote:

Norpig wrote:An end to austerity, that made me laugh! Tell that to the hundreds of thousands of people struggling with Universal credit and using foodbanks.

They, along with the homeless and mental health sufferers don't exist in Toryland. The Police, Local Councils, NHS workers and Teachers are already lined up to be sacrificed next to keep their millionaire backers happy in their foreign homes.

Sounds like Trump Village... tax breaks for the uber wealthy and cuts to Medicaid, Medicare and Social Security.

It doesn't matter. According to some, were going to end up a Third World country after Brexit, and nobody will have anything.

gloswhite wrote:It doesn't matter. According to some, were going to end up a Third World country after Brexit, and nobody will have anything.

Not sure who you are quoting there Glos - source? As far as I can tell most Brexit critics have simply said we will be a poorer country in terms of the big economies and that the country will move towards having a low wage/high employment economy with a bigger gap between the rich and the poor and reduced public services which Government stats show is happening already. 
Whether that leads to public unrest and further economic decline in a few years time remains to be seen, but I haven't heard anyone taking the longer term view yet. Who is it?