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Club not being sold ffs

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31 Re: Club not being sold ffs on Sun Feb 24 2019, 19:52

boltonbonce

boltonbonce
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:Genuine question Hipster....do you support Bolton?

I do. Not with so much passion as i used to have granted.
You described us as 'tin pot'. Unacceptable.

32 Re: Club not being sold ffs on Sun Feb 24 2019, 21:23

Hipster_Nebula

Hipster_Nebula
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Sometimes we have to face facts.

Just like when i look in the mirror. I have to accept what i see, even if I'd rather not.

33 Re: Club not being sold ffs on Sun Feb 24 2019, 21:31

boltonbonce

boltonbonce
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:Sometimes we have to face facts.

Just like when i look in the mirror. I have to accept what i see, even if I'd rather not.
When I look in the mirror, I see the next James Bond.

Everyone else seems to see Clive Dunn. scratch

34 Re: Club not being sold ffs on Sun Feb 24 2019, 21:45

karlypants

karlypants
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:Sometimes we have to face facts.

Just like when i look in the mirror. I have to accept what i see, even if I'd rather not.

Did the mirror crack?

35 Re: Club not being sold ffs on Sun Feb 24 2019, 22:38

boltonbonce

boltonbonce
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:Sometimes we have to face facts.

Just like when i look in the mirror. I have to accept what i see, even if I'd rather not.

Did the mirror crack?
I'm not Nat.

36 Re: Club not being sold ffs on Sun Feb 24 2019, 22:40

karlypants

karlypants
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:Sometimes we have to face facts.

Just like when i look in the mirror. I have to accept what i see, even if I'd rather not.

Did the mirror crack?
I'm not Nat.

Very Happy

37 Re: Club not being sold ffs on Sun Feb 24 2019, 23:08

Growler


Tony Kelly
Tony Kelly
Bolton aren't a tinpot club, we are the 3rd biggest of the Manchester conurbation and bigger than all the Lancashire town clubs in my opinion.The Wilmslow lad said to be buying us couldn't afford either of the Manchester clubs and no doubt fancies a bigger club than the more local Stockport, Macclesfield and Crewe.

First impressions are that this consortium could be a good thing.They won't have the money to  buy us a place in the Premier League but if they sell £11 million worth of players I think they have enough finances to spend £11 million on new signings rather than the 200k Ken spent.

In the summer i would fancy them to spend enough money to be promoted from Div 3.They won't be rich enough to throw £50 million at a Championship title cake walk but the finances will be there to back someone like Allardyce, Greaves or Rioch to take us up.

38 Re: Club not being sold ffs on Sun Feb 24 2019, 23:35

karlypants

karlypants
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Magic147 - 46 mins ago

In conclusion, Anderson and Co did save the club from becoming extinct, he did trim the wage and other various bills which was neccessary, he did build a brilliant training facilty with the new dome, he did keep the academy at category 2 status and one of, if not THE best in the football league, he brought in Parky who got us promoted at the first time of asking and then kept us up...JUST...the following season. He has been more vocal than the previous owners with his notes. He's brought in events to the stadium to add revenue, to be fair he's done a lot. He has admitted its time to sell on and yes he has upset a lot of supporters and staff with his methods but you cant deny he's leaving the club in a much better condition than what he started with. Fair play to him, he is a bussiness man after all. But i do truly believe he's done good. Its hard to think that after the turmoil in recent months but at least we still have a club to support. Ken thankyou! However as you admit yourself its time to sell on to someone with more finances and take this magnificent club back to where it belongs! Football is all about money these days so hopefully its the start of something very positive! COME ON YOU WHITES!!!

39 Re: Club not being sold ffs on Mon Feb 25 2019, 01:08

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:Bolton aren't a tinpot club, we are the 3rd biggest of the Manchester conurbation and bigger than all the Lancashire town clubs in my opinion.The Wilmslow lad said to be buying us couldn't afford either of the Manchester clubs and no doubt fancies a bigger club than the more local Stockport, Macclesfield and Crewe.

First impressions are that this consortium could be a good thing.They won't have the money to  buy us a place in the Premier League but if they sell £11 million worth of players I think they have enough finances to spend £11 million on new signings rather than the 200k Ken spent.

In the summer i would fancy them to spend enough money to be promoted from Div 3.They won't be rich enough to throw £50 million at a Championship title cake walk but the finances will be there to back someone like Allardyce, Greaves or Rioch to take us up.

A genuine question - I'm not trying to point score or anything - what do you think is in it for this consortium if it isn't to get to the Premier within three years?

I say three years because under FFP the owner cannot put more money into the club than it generates in revenue within a three year period.

If they bought the club tomorrow they will still have to find £3 million in wages just to get to the end of this season (£600k x 5 months).

Next season we will start it in the third tier unless something drastic happens between now and seasons end.  So you are looking at a comparable wage bill to help get us promoted first time - say £500k per month x 12 months = £6 million.

Do we have money to sign anyone?  Say we do - another £3 million say?

So just to get us from now until the end of next season will cost them something like £27 million to buy the club, plus £3 million this years wages plus £3 million transfer budget for next season (let say the club breaks even next year so the players wages are covered by revenue).

So they are down £33 million and are a year and a half in - and haven't made a single penny profit yet - all just to be back at the Championship level.

Are they then going to throw the equivalent of the kitchen sink in financial terms to go for instant promotion?  Otherwise they will be £33 million plus anything else they spend on transfers - and still be no better off?

The financial model simply doesn't make any sense to me?

How do you believe the finances will work out over the next two or three seasons because without hitting the jackpot and getting to the Premier League in that time span I just can't see it working in a football sense financially?

What happens if we don't bonce back straight up again next season for instance?

Why would these people want to throw money into the club?

I just don't see it?

I could see Anderson wanting to turn the club around and make a profit - but I just can't see what is in it for this consortium?

40 Re: Club not being sold ffs on Mon Feb 25 2019, 07:41

T.R.O.Y


Andy Walker
Andy Walker
Aside from this lot not being billionaires, nobody (even sluffy) knows how wealthy this group is. We’ll probably only find out once we get to the summer transfer window, so trying to predict how long tbey’ll accept losing money for is difficult.

I’ve read this is the Warburton bid? Is that right? At least if that is the case there’s someone on board who knows this league (and the one below), and will surely have counselled the group on just how much would need to change to get this club to the premier league.

Anyway, the club was dead under Anderson we’d ceased to operate, so something had to change. Let’s hope this is positive at last.

41 Re: Club not being sold ffs on Mon Feb 25 2019, 08:44

Norpig

Norpig
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
I'm cautiously optimistic, they may not be billionaires but from what i've read they will know how to run a club properly. I'll take a few years of stability over what we've had for the last few.

I still think we will go down but if all the debts are wiped out it gives us a fighting chance to get straight back up like last time. I remember other teams moaning about our budget and wages last time in league 1 and we were living hand to mouth then as well.

42 Re: Club not being sold ffs on Mon Feb 25 2019, 09:03

rammywhite

rammywhite
Frank Worthington
Frank Worthington
Sluffy,

This £27million figure. Where do you get that from? I'd like to see something official about that and not just someone's guess- even if he is itk. Which he isn't.
If they take on the debt I'd be surprised if it was even half that amount. I would guess its nearer the £10million which Anderson would accept just to get out and cut his potential future losses.

Lets see some evidence of it.

43 Re: Club not being sold ffs on Mon Feb 25 2019, 10:09

boltonbonce

boltonbonce
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
We're going to be discussed at some time this morning on the Jim White show on TalkSport, from 10am.
Along with Coventry City, another club in trouble.

44 Re: Club not being sold ffs on Mon Feb 25 2019, 10:59

Hipster_Nebula

Hipster_Nebula
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:I'm cautiously optimistic, they may not be billionaires but from what i've read they will know how to run a club properly. I'll take a few years of stability over what we've had for the last few.

I still think we will go down but if all the debts are wiped out it gives us a fighting chance to get straight back up like last time. I remember other teams moaning about our budget and wages last time in league 1 and we were living hand to mouth then as well.

As sluffy said if we don't get instant success the debt will just build up again as there are no revenue streams in league one.

These people don't have the capital and will be seeking a way out in 3-5 years if we're not in the prem.

But at least we got rid of Anderson.

45 Re: Club not being sold ffs on Mon Feb 25 2019, 11:20

Natasha Whittam

Natasha Whittam
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
A lot of pessimistic bellends on here who think they know everything. Shame most of them haven't been to the Reebok this century, because that's what it's all about for me.

I don't give a shit about off the pitch, it's what happens on Saturday afternoon that matters to me. And if these new owners come in, get rid of Parky and install someone with a bit of nous, I'll be happy.

46 Re: Club not being sold ffs on Mon Feb 25 2019, 11:35

Boggersbelief

Boggersbelief
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
 Natasha Whittam wrote:A lot of pessimistic bellends on here who think they know everything. Shame most of them haven't been to the Reebok this century, because that's what it's all about for me.

I don't give a shit about off the pitch, it's what happens on Saturday afternoon that matters to me. And if these new owners come in, get rid of Parky and install someone with a bit of nous, I'll be happy.

David Weir ha

47 Re: Club not being sold ffs on Mon Feb 25 2019, 11:40

Hipster_Nebula

Hipster_Nebula
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
I wish we could get Dougie back.

He was such a lovely man. Treated like crap by our fans.  :dougie:

48 Re: Club not being sold ffs on Mon Feb 25 2019, 12:55

wanderlust


Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
So many unknowns with this potential buyer, but I thought I read somewhere that the main guy runs an investment company so depending on share allocation does that not leave the door open for future investors to come in at any point in time? I might be barking up the wrong tree with this, but it's a thought. 
I think Sluffy makes a fair point about the need to turn the business around so that it stops making losses - which were predictably inevitable under Anderson - so what's different? 
To make the business profitable surely the only options are austerity - and we've had our share of that already so it's difficult to see what else could be pared back - or investment to try to get back to the Premiership where the pot of gold resides?
I presume these people have a plan and have seen an opportunity and given that we're already down to the bones, investment seems the likelier of the two. 
The elephant in the room however is the prestige of owning  football club scenario where they are buying in for the wrong reasons as Anderson did and if that turns out to be the case we could be continuing down the road to ruin, but hopefully these guys have more sense than that.

49 Re: Club not being sold ffs on Mon Feb 25 2019, 13:23

Norpig

Norpig
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:I wish we could get Dougie back.

He was such a lovely man. Treated like crap by our fans.  :dougie:
 I hated him more than Mugson and that's saying something, he was an arrogant prick.

50 Re: Club not being sold ffs on Mon Feb 25 2019, 13:39

MartinBWFC

MartinBWFC
Frank Worthington
Frank Worthington
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote: I hated him more than Mugson and that's saying something, he was an arrogant prick.
The fact he never got a chance at management after us tells it's own story, what a tosser he really was.

51 Re: Club not being sold ffs on Mon Feb 25 2019, 14:21

Hipster_Nebula

Hipster_Nebula
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote: I hated him more than Mugson and that's saying something, he was an arrogant prick.
The fact he never got a chance at management after us tells it's own story, what a tosser he really was.

Apart from obviously the chance he got at Forrest you're right.

52 Re: Club not being sold ffs on Mon Feb 25 2019, 14:39

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:I’ve read this is the Warburton bid? Is that right? At least if that is the case there’s someone on board who knows this league (and the one below), and will surely have counselled the group on just how much would need to change to get this club to the premier league.

For what it is worth Iles tweeted this in reply to a reply to Nigel last night -

To the best of my knowledge, Warburton (or David Weir) is not being installed as new manager.

Also according to a reliable source Iles also tweeted this earlier that day -

"I am still sceptical about the Warburton thing...

I know he's spoken to them and offered his thoughts but I don't think he, or David Weir, is in line to be manager right now. Just a hunch."

...which ties in with the tweet to Nigel above.

I've not seen the other tweet and so have left the 'source' vague just in case he posted something he was told in confidence by Iles(?).

Makes me wonder IF Warburton IS part of the takeover OR just advising as a consultant, on the football side in advance of the takeover?

It does bother me a bit that one of the two Directors named in the company to presumably take ownership of the club seems to have a background in property and that apparently Basran wanted the Davies conditions on his £15 million loan removed.

Makes me wonder if part of the plan is perhaps to sell off the hotel or other assets once they get freed up from the sale - to fund the purchase - then to sell on the club again but this time completely debt free to someone else - or something along those lines.

Don't forget this is apparently a hedge fund purchase - not some rich blokes wanting a toy to play with.

Just my thoughts at the moment as I simply can't see anyone spending millions on us (whether it's £27 million or £10 million to purchase plus say a further £6 million in running costs and a few basic transfers/loan deals to strengthen the team), without wanting something more solid back than pissing their money away for just the hell of it.

53 Re: Club not being sold ffs on Mon Feb 25 2019, 15:14

wanderlust


Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Makes me wonder if part of the plan is perhaps to sell off the hotel or other assets once they get freed up from the sale - to fund the purchase - then to sell on the club again but this time completely debt free to someone else - or something along those lines.
There really is plenty to worry about, but if this another exercise in trying to turn a profit from existing assets a la Anderson, I wonder if selling off the hotel and effectively creating another Normid in the process would be the best way to go about it? A hotel that is part of the infrastructure of the ground owned by a third party would surely put off potential investors. Maybe it is the plan, but the only way to earn serious money is to get into the Premiership so having football people like Warburton allegedly taking an interest would be a good thing as they would be more likely to envision a way of engineering that. I know lots of clubs are trying to do that, but if they can pull it off, the potential income is there to be had, especially if we could survive for a couple of seasons.

The main worrying thing is that there is no obvious sign of the investors having any real money - in fact their companies have more liabilities than assets and I can't find any info on their personal wealth.

54 Re: Club not being sold ffs on Mon Feb 25 2019, 17:30

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

EFL chief executive Shaun Harvey believes a takeover of Bolton Wanderers is imminent and that Ken Anderson should receive a degree of credit for helping keep the club alive."But whilst I may not be universally popular for saying this, ultimately Ken Anderson went into that club when there was nobody else to take it forward. 

"He has put it into a position where a lot of the debt has gone. 

"The club can change hands. Obviously they have got a fight on to stay in the Championship but Bolton Wanderers will be here for many, many years to come and Ken Anderson has played a part in that history."

55 Re: Club not being sold ffs on Mon Feb 25 2019, 19:27

maconman


David Ngog
David Ngog
According to the Sun the Offer is £27 million from which all debt will be paid. I am intrigued to know how this is going to be handled.
Is the money going to be handed over to Ken to clear the debt or are the new owners going to sort things out and hand Ken the expected surplus?

56 Re: Club not being sold ffs on Mon Feb 25 2019, 19:46

Hipster_Nebula

Hipster_Nebula
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
It'll be paid over a number of years. Probably about 50

57 Re: Club not being sold ffs on Mon Feb 25 2019, 20:40

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:According to the Sun the Offer is £27 million from which all debt will be paid. I am intrigued to know how this is going to be handled.
Is the money going to be handed over to Ken to clear the debt or are the new owners going to sort things out and hand Ken the expected surplus?

It will be done by their solicitors and legal teams - KA won't see a penny until everything is sorted out the 'i's' dotted and 't's' crossed and all signed off by them.

Well done to Anderson if it all goes through.

58 Re: Club not being sold ffs on Tue Feb 26 2019, 00:39

wanderlust


Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
There seem to be a lot of people slapping Anderson on the back already for a deal that is not yet done selling our club to people we know net to nothing about and whose resources to take the club forward are unknown - other than we know the two principals haven't got a bean in footballing terms. As for saying he picked us up when there was nobody else, they seem to be omitting the fact that in doing so he removed any opportunity for anyone else to buy us or even considering what might have happened if we'd gone into administration - which may well have proved a better option given what's happened since. After all, he made such a poor job of trying to make us into a viable concern that he was finally forced to sell and we still have no idea what he has actually done to bail out.  
If he has sold us to new owners who have the intent and wherewithal to make the substantial investment required I'll breathe more easily but it looks increasingly like he's merely passing us on to people who are equally impoverished, just to get away. Perhaps we might consider a moratorium on applauding Anderson until the facts come out?

59 Re: Club not being sold ffs on Tue Feb 26 2019, 14:25

terenceanne

terenceanne
El Hadji Diouf
El Hadji Diouf
Anybody wishing to make a profit from owning a football club is slightly bonkers IMO. Whoever wants this is to get their face on TV....slap their own name on the stadium....etc. Big Eddie pumped money into the club for years and lost millions....because he was a fan of BWFC, not to make any money.

60 Re: Club not being sold ffs on Tue Feb 26 2019, 14:28

Boggersbelief

Boggersbelief
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
I hope they’re rich enough to rename it the reebok

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