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Bolton Nuts » BWFC » Bolton Wanderers Banter » Bolton Wanderers and taking the 'knee'

Bolton Wanderers and taking the 'knee'

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terenceanne
Hip Priest
Whitesince63
finlaymcdanger
Feby
boltonbonce
okocha
Norpig
Sluffy
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Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin

Seems it is going to continue for the new season.

I can't see the gesture has yet to convert a single racist to not being one - and I'm sure we are all pretty much aware of racism by now - so it just seems like a futile, politically correct, gesture to my way of thinking.

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Bolton Wanderers Football Club will always remain committed to promoting inclusion and supporting diversity.

We are also proud of our players’ stance in saying that racism and discrimination is not acceptable in both football and wider society.

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​Whether a player, coach, volunteer or  supporter, it has the power to unite people in a way that very few other things can.

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Norpig

Norpig
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

If i hear anyone near me booing they will be getting told to shut it!

okocha

okocha
El Hadji Diouf
El Hadji Diouf

Norpig wrote:If i hear anyone near me booing they will be getting told to shut it!
:clap:

boltonbonce

boltonbonce
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

Norpig wrote:If i hear anyone near me booing they will be getting told to shut it!
I'm with you Mr Pig. Mind you, most of the residents of the upper portions of the West Stand are just happy to have got to their seat without the aid of a nurse.
Any aggro might finish them off.
Last time there was a stand off, one of them pulled a musket.

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin

Norpig wrote:If i hear anyone near me booing they will be getting told to shut it!

Serious question, what is continuing to take the knee in football achieving?

As far as I can see most country's in the world don't think it achieve's anything special and don't do it and even a number of sports in this country don't bother with it.

Should you be booing them for NOT doing it?

As I said previously and in the opening post of this thread, I can't see it is actually achieving anything other than irritating a number of people - and I imagine there are quite a significant number more people who rather it is stopped apart from those who do boo.

Football even has its own antiracist campaign, so I don't even know why they've 'adopted' the knee in the first place and strongly suspect they simply jumped on the populist band waggon at the time and are now kind of stuck with it.

I would have thought a new football season would have been a natural time to end the 'gesture' which it clearly is these days.

The only thing I see it achieving now is as a focal point for people to ridicule it and show their distaste for it by booing.

I simply don't believe that many people who are booing, are booing because they support racism - do you?

It's attracting ongoing booing now because there's always going to be some who like to cause trouble simply for a laugh rather than as a racist issue.

boltonbonce

boltonbonce
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

At the start of a season so full of promise, why on earth would anyone boo their own players before they've even kicked off.
It's clearly a gesture, however hollow you might think it, that means something to them.
Respect it, and move on.

Feby


David Ngog
David Ngog

If you want it to disappear, then be indifferent about it.

The fans booing are not winning this argument.

finlaymcdanger

finlaymcdanger
El Hadji Diouf
El Hadji Diouf

As clearly stated by the club, this is the intention of the BWFC players when taking a knee:

"The players are determined to send out a strong and positive message to show that we are all together in the fight against discrimination of any kind."

Anyone thinking about booing hopefully understand this.

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin

Feby wrote:If you want it to disappear, then be indifferent about it.

The fans booing are not winning this argument.

I don't really think there even is an argument about it, let alone winning it, I just liken it to more like internet trolling, where the 'booers' are looking more for a reaction and having themselves a personal laugh at how 'outraged' how many people get over them doing it.

They do say don't feed the trolls but there is simply too many football goers who will react - and hence encourage them to carry on 'winding' folk up by their booing!

Seems a simple solution to me in that the EFL/PL should just start the season by promoting their own antiracism initiative - the Kick it Out programme and say something to the effect that taking the knee has focused everybody's attention to racism in general but they believe they should now prioritise the Kick it Out initiative as it is specifically designed for football and tackling racism with in it - or something along those lines.

I predict if the EFL/PL continue to support taking the knee - whilst many other sports bodies even in this country do not - then the booing will continue and the issue and focus will move away from racism to peoples individual rights to protest.

God we've seen people protest in thousands over the personal freedoms over lockdown so I don't think the booing will stop anytime soon.

Best just to move on from what is now nothing more than a gesture.

Norpig

Norpig
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

The racist abuse suffered by the 3 England black players after the Euro's final show exactly why footballers are taking a knee, it's not a political gesture just a way to show their support for anti-racism.

Anyone booing that is clearly a racist, trying to pretend it's linked to some Marxist BLM movement is just a smokescreen for their own racism.

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin

Norpig wrote:The racist abuse suffered by the 3 England black players after the Euro's final show exactly why footballers are taking a knee, it's not a political gesture just a way to show their support for anti-racism.

Anyone booing that is clearly a racist, trying to pretend it's linked to some Marxist BLM movement is just a smokescreen for their own racism.

You're missing my point.

I think a big chunk of the booing now is to simply wind up people like you simply to amuse themselves and nothing to do with whether they are racists or not.

It is tantamount to trolling on social media.

If you think about it most people live on social media these days so why would we expect their behaviour to be different in real life?

I don't mean they would say things to your face that they say on social media - I'm certain most would not - but I would expect many would only be too happy to be 'trollish' and look to wind people up by booing and seeking a reaction simply for a laugh.

I'm fairly sure you need to look more at how social media effects peoples behaviour rather than just assume people who boo are racists.

Many may well be but if there was no reaction to their booing (as was mentioned above) they'd get tired and stop doing it but there is simply too many people who can't and will react and get annoyed at them.

Simply engineering out the problem is the solution and that can easily be done as I've said above by the football authorities reverting back to their own existing antiracist programme and ending their overt support of players taking the knee.

No doubt some players will carry on but I suspect like other sports for instance most people will simply follow their own sporting bodies antiracism message than the taking of the knee.

Problem solved, everybody happy.

Whitesince63


Andy Walker
Andy Walker

Norpig wrote:The racist abuse suffered by the 3 England black players after the Euro's final show exactly why footballers are taking a knee, it's not a political gesture just a way to show their support for anti-racism.

Anyone booing that is clearly a racist, trying to pretend it's linked to some Marxist BLM movement is just a smokescreen for their own racism.

I agree on the abuse of our 3 England players Norpig, but in fairness, our White players previously were also ridiculed and I think I’m right in saying that when they missed there was no Social Media?

You say the booers are “ trying to pretend it’s linked to some Marxist BLM movement.” Pretend? Wasn’t it the PL who linked the two and emblazoned their shirts with both the Black Lives Matter slogan and the BLM logo and have continued to do so. The fact is that BLM hijacked the knee gesture following the GF killing and have continued to benefit from it by the continuation to link the two by clubs and management.

I’ve never booed our players and never will but I can understand and support those booing to get the message across that this link is totally unacceptable. We’re all together on fighting racism and having missed very few Wanderers home games over 50+ years, I can’t recall ever hearing a racist comment for over the last 30 of them. So fans are not booing the team, the message, or the knee gesture, just the link withnBLM, which is real however much you try to deny it.

Norpig

Norpig
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

All the players have said till they are blue in the face that taking the knee is not a political gesture, it couldn't have been made any clearer over the last few months.

How you can say you understand and support those who boo is baffling and a little worrying to me.

boltonbonce

boltonbonce
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

Sadly, we live in a world where RNLI crew members are being jeered for rescuing asylum seekers.

It'll be doctors and nurses next.

okocha

okocha
El Hadji Diouf
El Hadji Diouf

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Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin

boltonbonce wrote:Sadly, we live in a world where RNLI crew members are being jeered for rescuing asylum seekers.

It'll be doctors and nurses next.

Doctors and nurses, along with paramedics, fire officers and the police are abused and assaulted by some each and every day already.

In some country's they are even targeted and killed in order to bring fear and destabilise that country.

Racism does exit and it isn't only the whites doing it against the blacks either.

A bunch of overly paid footballers (you know those even in the lower divisions being paid more than doctors and nurses!) taking a knee in front of what, 90% plus of the people watching the game and who aren't racist to begin with isn't going to change much is it?

Like it or not, in some peoples mind BLM IS identified as a radical, activist group intent on things like defunding the police.

The taking of the knee on behalf of BLM is simply taking the piss in their eyes and seen as an inflammatory gesture.

I'm convinced as I've said above that there are others simply with the aim to cause trouble who boo the taking of the knee.

You probably have others booing because they are sick of what is to me at least, a completely empty gesture.

All of those three groups are booing for reasons NOT connected with racism!

It seems blindingly obvious to me that the gesture has simply run its course and had done several months ago.  

You didn't see many country's take the knee in the Euros other than the games England, Scotland and Wales were involved in and I've not seen a single competitor from all the country's in the world - including the USA - take the knee in any sport so far at the Olympic games.

The British Lions currently playing South Africa have said they don't require players to take the knee, I watched the opening games of crickets One Hundred and didn't see teams taking the knee - so what is it with British professional football and footballers holding firm with it???

They certainly don't do it in the Sunday pub leagues around my neck of the woods.

So what exactly is the reason why footballers only (are anyone else still doing it other than Lewis Hamilton?) continue to take the knee - this is a serious question by the way.

Is it to highlight equality and condemn racism - if so why aren't all other British sports federations asking their competitors to do the same?

Why then have most (all?) other sport bodies moved away from the knee and promote instead their own message about equality and racism?

Is it because of the ambiguity in some peoples minds about what BLM stands for particularly as the existing (Marxist?) politically activist organisation of the same name gain by the tune of £1m from donations from well intended people giving to the 'wrong' cause because of the 'name'.

The clenched raised fist of the Black Power salute seen initially by many taking the knee (including Lewis Hamilton) certainly muddies the waters more in some peoples minds as well.

Isn't it just easier and more beneficial all around to 'park' the knee and promote 'Kick it Out' instead, which is giving the same message without any mixed messages about it being a political and activistic action?

The longer the knee goes on the longer it will attract boos.

I can't see any sense doing it frankly.

Can anyone give me one good reason to continue with it rather than simply promoting their own antiracist programme 'Kick it Out' instead?

Whitesince63


Andy Walker
Andy Walker

Norpig wrote:All the players have said till they are blue in the face that taking the knee is not a political gesture, it couldn't have been made any clearer over the last few months.

How you can say you understand and support those who boo is baffling and a little worrying to me.

I can say it Norpig because I understand the reason they are booing and it certainly isn’t because they’re being racist. Of course the players have stated they aren’t supporting the BLM organisation and I 100% believe them but as long as they are linked to it it’s surely going to continue the problem. 

If they genuinely want to stop the booing, they can do it in one easy step. Ditch any reference to BLM, remove slogans and logos from shirts and eliminate the one thing that is creating the objections. They could also fine players like Fonz for his Black Power salutes whilst kneeling, which certainly aren’t part of the PL rules. It’s just too easy to label anyone booing as being racist but unfortunately in the society we live in today, any form of disagreement with the woke brigade results in just such a misinformed opinion.

The gesture has now become wholly divisive and is basically creating the opposite it was intended to, so surely the sensible thing to do is accept it isn’t working and change it to something we can all support, as I believe we did before the bloody knee thing anyway.

Norpig

Norpig
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

I wondered how long it would take someone to mention woke  Rolling Eyes

So Whites your answer to this is to completely ignore that black footballers are being racially abused on a daily basis and pretending it just doesn't happen? Great plan that! 

As far as i know you aren't a black man so both you and i have no idea what it's like to have to put up with the kind of shit that black people in general have to put up with. What do you suggest they do to try and create change?

boltonbonce

boltonbonce
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

Norpig wrote:I wondered how long it would take someone to mention woke  Rolling Eyes

So Whites your answer to this is to completely ignore that black footballers are being racially abused on a daily basis and pretending it just doesn't happen? Great plan that! 

As far as i know you aren't a black man so both you and i have no idea what it's like to have to put up with the kind of shit that black people in general have to put up with. What do you suggest they do to try and create change?
It's the dreaded 'Woke brigade'. Or is it that other stalwart, 'cancel culture'? 
Most are, of course, Marxist's or Trots, Feminists, radical vegans, social justice warriors, Guardian readers, LGBTQ+, or yoga fanatics. A dangerous cadre of extreme knitters has also begun to infiltrate the base.
Troubled times ahead for Piers Morgan and his 'mardypants brigade'.
Had to laugh at the poor chap questioning the mental toughness of certain sports people, when he flounced off set at GMTV because he couldn't hack it.

Feby


David Ngog
David Ngog

It's up to the players how long they want to do it for. You keep booing, the players will keep kneeling and old white conservatives will keep moaning. Be indifferent to it and it will go away as quickly as it came. These thick fucks don't seem to get it though.

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