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Bolton Nuts » BWFC » Bolton Wanderers Banter » Bolton Wanderers and taking the 'knee'

Bolton Wanderers and taking the 'knee'

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terenceanne
Hip Priest
Whitesince63
finlaymcdanger
Feby
boltonbonce
okocha
Norpig
Sluffy
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Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
Seems it is going to continue for the new season.

I can't see the gesture has yet to convert a single racist to not being one - and I'm sure we are all pretty much aware of racism by now - so it just seems like a futile, politically correct, gesture to my way of thinking.

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Norpig

Norpig
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
If i hear anyone near me booing they will be getting told to shut it!

okocha

okocha
El Hadji Diouf
El Hadji Diouf
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:If i hear anyone near me booing they will be getting told to shut it!
:clap:

boltonbonce

boltonbonce
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:If i hear anyone near me booing they will be getting told to shut it!
I'm with you Mr Pig. Mind you, most of the residents of the upper portions of the West Stand are just happy to have got to their seat without the aid of a nurse.
Any aggro might finish them off.
Last time there was a stand off, one of them pulled a musket.

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:If i hear anyone near me booing they will be getting told to shut it!

Serious question, what is continuing to take the knee in football achieving?

As far as I can see most country's in the world don't think it achieve's anything special and don't do it and even a number of sports in this country don't bother with it.

Should you be booing them for NOT doing it?

As I said previously and in the opening post of this thread, I can't see it is actually achieving anything other than irritating a number of people - and I imagine there are quite a significant number more people who rather it is stopped apart from those who do boo.

Football even has its own antiracist campaign, so I don't even know why they've 'adopted' the knee in the first place and strongly suspect they simply jumped on the populist band waggon at the time and are now kind of stuck with it.

I would have thought a new football season would have been a natural time to end the 'gesture' which it clearly is these days.

The only thing I see it achieving now is as a focal point for people to ridicule it and show their distaste for it by booing.

I simply don't believe that many people who are booing, are booing because they support racism - do you?

It's attracting ongoing booing now because there's always going to be some who like to cause trouble simply for a laugh rather than as a racist issue.

boltonbonce

boltonbonce
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
At the start of a season so full of promise, why on earth would anyone boo their own players before they've even kicked off.
It's clearly a gesture, however hollow you might think it, that means something to them.
Respect it, and move on.

Feby


David Ngog
David Ngog
If you want it to disappear, then be indifferent about it.

The fans booing are not winning this argument.

finlaymcdanger

finlaymcdanger
El Hadji Diouf
El Hadji Diouf
As clearly stated by the club, this is the intention of the BWFC players when taking a knee:

"The players are determined to send out a strong and positive message to show that we are all together in the fight against discrimination of any kind."

Anyone thinking about booing hopefully understand this.

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:If you want it to disappear, then be indifferent about it.

The fans booing are not winning this argument.

I don't really think there even is an argument about it, let alone winning it, I just liken it to more like internet trolling, where the 'booers' are looking more for a reaction and having themselves a personal laugh at how 'outraged' how many people get over them doing it.

They do say don't feed the trolls but there is simply too many football goers who will react - and hence encourage them to carry on 'winding' folk up by their booing!

Seems a simple solution to me in that the EFL/PL should just start the season by promoting their own antiracism initiative - the Kick it Out programme and say something to the effect that taking the knee has focused everybody's attention to racism in general but they believe they should now prioritise the Kick it Out initiative as it is specifically designed for football and tackling racism with in it - or something along those lines.

I predict if the EFL/PL continue to support taking the knee - whilst many other sports bodies even in this country do not - then the booing will continue and the issue and focus will move away from racism to peoples individual rights to protest.

God we've seen people protest in thousands over the personal freedoms over lockdown so I don't think the booing will stop anytime soon.

Best just to move on from what is now nothing more than a gesture.

Norpig

Norpig
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
The racist abuse suffered by the 3 England black players after the Euro's final show exactly why footballers are taking a knee, it's not a political gesture just a way to show their support for anti-racism.

Anyone booing that is clearly a racist, trying to pretend it's linked to some Marxist BLM movement is just a smokescreen for their own racism.

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:The racist abuse suffered by the 3 England black players after the Euro's final show exactly why footballers are taking a knee, it's not a political gesture just a way to show their support for anti-racism.

Anyone booing that is clearly a racist, trying to pretend it's linked to some Marxist BLM movement is just a smokescreen for their own racism.

You're missing my point.

I think a big chunk of the booing now is to simply wind up people like you simply to amuse themselves and nothing to do with whether they are racists or not.

It is tantamount to trolling on social media.

If you think about it most people live on social media these days so why would we expect their behaviour to be different in real life?

I don't mean they would say things to your face that they say on social media - I'm certain most would not - but I would expect many would only be too happy to be 'trollish' and look to wind people up by booing and seeking a reaction simply for a laugh.

I'm fairly sure you need to look more at how social media effects peoples behaviour rather than just assume people who boo are racists.

Many may well be but if there was no reaction to their booing (as was mentioned above) they'd get tired and stop doing it but there is simply too many people who can't and will react and get annoyed at them.

Simply engineering out the problem is the solution and that can easily be done as I've said above by the football authorities reverting back to their own existing antiracist programme and ending their overt support of players taking the knee.

No doubt some players will carry on but I suspect like other sports for instance most people will simply follow their own sporting bodies antiracism message than the taking of the knee.

Problem solved, everybody happy.

Whitesince63


Tony Kelly
Tony Kelly
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:The racist abuse suffered by the 3 England black players after the Euro's final show exactly why footballers are taking a knee, it's not a political gesture just a way to show their support for anti-racism.

Anyone booing that is clearly a racist, trying to pretend it's linked to some Marxist BLM movement is just a smokescreen for their own racism.

I agree on the abuse of our 3 England players Norpig, but in fairness, our White players previously were also ridiculed and I think I’m right in saying that when they missed there was no Social Media?

You say the booers are “ trying to pretend it’s linked to some Marxist BLM movement.” Pretend? Wasn’t it the PL who linked the two and emblazoned their shirts with both the Black Lives Matter slogan and the BLM logo and have continued to do so. The fact is that BLM hijacked the knee gesture following the GF killing and have continued to benefit from it by the continuation to link the two by clubs and management.

I’ve never booed our players and never will but I can understand and support those booing to get the message across that this link is totally unacceptable. We’re all together on fighting racism and having missed very few Wanderers home games over 50+ years, I can’t recall ever hearing a racist comment for over the last 30 of them. So fans are not booing the team, the message, or the knee gesture, just the link withnBLM, which is real however much you try to deny it.

Norpig

Norpig
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
All the players have said till they are blue in the face that taking the knee is not a political gesture, it couldn't have been made any clearer over the last few months.

How you can say you understand and support those who boo is baffling and a little worrying to me.

boltonbonce

boltonbonce
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Sadly, we live in a world where RNLI crew members are being jeered for rescuing asylum seekers.

It'll be doctors and nurses next.

okocha

okocha
El Hadji Diouf
El Hadji Diouf
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Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:Sadly, we live in a world where RNLI crew members are being jeered for rescuing asylum seekers.

It'll be doctors and nurses next.

Doctors and nurses, along with paramedics, fire officers and the police are abused and assaulted by some each and every day already.

In some country's they are even targeted and killed in order to bring fear and destabilise that country.

Racism does exit and it isn't only the whites doing it against the blacks either.

A bunch of overly paid footballers (you know those even in the lower divisions being paid more than doctors and nurses!) taking a knee in front of what, 90% plus of the people watching the game and who aren't racist to begin with isn't going to change much is it?

Like it or not, in some peoples mind BLM IS identified as a radical, activist group intent on things like defunding the police.

The taking of the knee on behalf of BLM is simply taking the piss in their eyes and seen as an inflammatory gesture.

I'm convinced as I've said above that there are others simply with the aim to cause trouble who boo the taking of the knee.

You probably have others booing because they are sick of what is to me at least, a completely empty gesture.

All of those three groups are booing for reasons NOT connected with racism!

It seems blindingly obvious to me that the gesture has simply run its course and had done several months ago.  

You didn't see many country's take the knee in the Euros other than the games England, Scotland and Wales were involved in and I've not seen a single competitor from all the country's in the world - including the USA - take the knee in any sport so far at the Olympic games.

The British Lions currently playing South Africa have said they don't require players to take the knee, I watched the opening games of crickets One Hundred and didn't see teams taking the knee - so what is it with British professional football and footballers holding firm with it???

They certainly don't do it in the Sunday pub leagues around my neck of the woods.

So what exactly is the reason why footballers only (are anyone else still doing it other than Lewis Hamilton?) continue to take the knee - this is a serious question by the way.

Is it to highlight equality and condemn racism - if so why aren't all other British sports federations asking their competitors to do the same?

Why then have most (all?) other sport bodies moved away from the knee and promote instead their own message about equality and racism?

Is it because of the ambiguity in some peoples minds about what BLM stands for particularly as the existing (Marxist?) politically activist organisation of the same name gain by the tune of £1m from donations from well intended people giving to the 'wrong' cause because of the 'name'.

The clenched raised fist of the Black Power salute seen initially by many taking the knee (including Lewis Hamilton) certainly muddies the waters more in some peoples minds as well.

Isn't it just easier and more beneficial all around to 'park' the knee and promote 'Kick it Out' instead, which is giving the same message without any mixed messages about it being a political and activistic action?

The longer the knee goes on the longer it will attract boos.

I can't see any sense doing it frankly.

Can anyone give me one good reason to continue with it rather than simply promoting their own antiracist programme 'Kick it Out' instead?

Whitesince63


Tony Kelly
Tony Kelly
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:All the players have said till they are blue in the face that taking the knee is not a political gesture, it couldn't have been made any clearer over the last few months.

How you can say you understand and support those who boo is baffling and a little worrying to me.

I can say it Norpig because I understand the reason they are booing and it certainly isn’t because they’re being racist. Of course the players have stated they aren’t supporting the BLM organisation and I 100% believe them but as long as they are linked to it it’s surely going to continue the problem. 

If they genuinely want to stop the booing, they can do it in one easy step. Ditch any reference to BLM, remove slogans and logos from shirts and eliminate the one thing that is creating the objections. They could also fine players like Fonz for his Black Power salutes whilst kneeling, which certainly aren’t part of the PL rules. It’s just too easy to label anyone booing as being racist but unfortunately in the society we live in today, any form of disagreement with the woke brigade results in just such a misinformed opinion.

The gesture has now become wholly divisive and is basically creating the opposite it was intended to, so surely the sensible thing to do is accept it isn’t working and change it to something we can all support, as I believe we did before the bloody knee thing anyway.

Norpig

Norpig
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
I wondered how long it would take someone to mention woke  Rolling Eyes

So Whites your answer to this is to completely ignore that black footballers are being racially abused on a daily basis and pretending it just doesn't happen? Great plan that! 

As far as i know you aren't a black man so both you and i have no idea what it's like to have to put up with the kind of shit that black people in general have to put up with. What do you suggest they do to try and create change?

boltonbonce

boltonbonce
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:I wondered how long it would take someone to mention woke  Rolling Eyes

So Whites your answer to this is to completely ignore that black footballers are being racially abused on a daily basis and pretending it just doesn't happen? Great plan that! 

As far as i know you aren't a black man so both you and i have no idea what it's like to have to put up with the kind of shit that black people in general have to put up with. What do you suggest they do to try and create change?
It's the dreaded 'Woke brigade'. Or is it that other stalwart, 'cancel culture'? 
Most are, of course, Marxist's or Trots, Feminists, radical vegans, social justice warriors, Guardian readers, LGBTQ+, or yoga fanatics. A dangerous cadre of extreme knitters has also begun to infiltrate the base.
Troubled times ahead for Piers Morgan and his 'mardypants brigade'.
Had to laugh at the poor chap questioning the mental toughness of certain sports people, when he flounced off set at GMTV because he couldn't hack it.

Feby


David Ngog
David Ngog
It's up to the players how long they want to do it for. You keep booing, the players will keep kneeling and old white conservatives will keep moaning. Be indifferent to it and it will go away as quickly as it came. These thick fucks don't seem to get it though.

finlaymcdanger

finlaymcdanger
El Hadji Diouf
El Hadji Diouf
This thread is titled “Bolton Wanderers and taking the ‘knee’”. Take the BLM argument elsewhere because based on the club’s statement it isn’t about that.

Hip Priest

Hip Priest
Andy Walker
Andy Walker
Totally agree with the anti-racism sentiment, the player's reasons for wanting to continue it and also that the booing is very unsavoury. Thing is it's not going to go away, it's going to get worse. 
Unfortunately taking the knee has become entangled with the BLM movement and no matter how many times the players explain their true motives for kneeling it's going to be a somewhat divisive gesture from now on.

I can't help feeling that the beginning of a new season was the right time for the football authorities to accept that taking the knee wasn't working (which it isn't),quietly abandon it, and introduce a completely new and simple initiative that enables everyone to get behind the anti-racism banner.
Anyone booing after that is obviously a racist whose seat number will immediately be texted to Norpig who will go round and give them a slap.  Very Happy  

I don't know what the gesture would be mind. Maybe something as simple as the home team captain (or both captains) reading a short standardised message about football against racism over the tannoy before kick off.

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
Well it would probably be a first on here if a thread kept on topic throughout without wandering off somewhere or other but I would also argue that the club statement is only one part of an equation, the other half being the fans who will be at the games watching the players doing it.

I'm fairly confident without knowing a single person who might be booing, that some amongst them will if ever interviewed why they did so, would sooner or later bring up the issue of BLM.

You can't just take one side of a story and ignore the other half.

Well you can but you don't gain anything from doing so, in order to win hearts and change minds you first have to understand where they are coming from and why.

I personally think the whole issue about the knee and the booing by some to it, all revolves around the gestures and symbolisms of actions (Black Lives Matter, taking the knee, black power salute) that predate the George Floyd murder that spawned the universal outpouring as it did - and as such have a prehistory not necessarily mutually compatible to what it seeks to achieve by adapting these symbols and gestures already existing at the time.

Move away from such 'baggage' and the problem is easily remedied - replace the 'knee' with 'Kick it Out' and there is no longer any hostility or booing.

Keep the knee and watch the matter continue to fester.

Let us be honest, what matters here is an end to racism, what we have here are the players for reasons best known to themselves stubbornly 'fighting' a needless battle over a 'gesture'.

The gesture has become the story here - not how to move towards ending racism.

It is almost as though the players WANT to be booed as that in someway is showing some people are racists for doing so?

Take away the 'knee' and it immediately ends the booing.

Problem solved and the players can spend their time promoting the Kick it Out antiracist initiative instead.

Win/win to my way of thinking.

Norpig

Norpig
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
The Kick it Out campaign has hardly been a roaring success though has it and neither have any of the other initiatives put in place over the years. Couple that with black players or celebrities getting racist abuse for the smallest thing and you can understand why they still feel the need to kneel or promote anti-racism in some other way.

It's incredible in this day and age that black people are still having to put up with this racist shit. Social media companies need to do a lot more to stop racist idiots posting their crap anonymously with no fear of any comeback on them.

terenceanne

terenceanne
El Hadji Diouf
El Hadji Diouf
They can jump up and down and do back flips before kicks for all I care.  Politics need to be out of sports full stop.
Anybody who thinks kneeling will make any difference to anything is totally naive. In fact its probably causing more problems at this point - this thread being an example.

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:The Kick it Out campaign has hardly been a roaring success though has it and neither have any of the other initiatives put in place over the years. Couple that with black players or celebrities getting racist abuse for the smallest thing and you can understand why they still feel the need to kneel or promote anti-racism in some other way.

It's incredible in this day and age that black people are still having to put up with this racist shit. Social media companies need to do a lot more to stop racist idiots posting their crap anonymously with no fear of any comeback on them.

Well if all the players had made an issue of the Kick it Out Campaign by say standing arm in arm with each other with a big Kick it Out banner in front of them, before every single match (including England and Scotland, games, etc.) BEFORE the George Floyd murder, then maybe it would have been a roaring success.

The truth is that it wasn't such a big deal then to them was it?

Attitudes may have changed somewhat since Floyd but even so has footballers taking the knee been a 'roaring success' either?

How many people have suddenly stopped becoming racist because of it - I think you've answered that question already even before I ask it when you point out the torrent of abuse that still is found on social media, to black players, despite all the knee taking at every game played since it started over a year ago.

If anything it has got worse!

All the other sports in this country have by and large moved away from the knee (partly I suspect because of the historical baggage associated with it) and they instead promote their own antiracism campaigns, football and footballers should have made the same step for this season.

All I can see is constant trouble ahead because different groups of people have issues with it - and significantly these issues aren't necessarily about racism but more to do with the 'gesture' - and the knee has now become the story and not how to end racism, which of course it should be.

The longer this goes on the harder it will be for either side to give it up - the knee from the players, the booing from some of the crowd - is that what people really want?

I don't.

I don't think that will help to end racism at all.

Do you, does anyone?

okocha

okocha
El Hadji Diouf
El Hadji Diouf
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
It's the dreaded 'Woke brigade'. Or is it that other stalwart, 'cancel culture'? 
Most are, of course, Marxist's or Trots, Feminists, radical vegans, social justice warriors, Guardian readers, LGBTQ+, or yoga fanatics. A dangerous cadre of extreme knitters has also begun to infiltrate the base.
Troubled times ahead for Piers Morgan and his 'mardypants brigade'.
Had to laugh at the poor chap questioning the mental toughness of certain sports people, when he flounced off set at GMTV because he couldn't hack it.
Very good, Bonce.

In passing, what percentage of the population do you think are aware of the connotations of using BLM as the main symbol of revulsion over racism aimed at black footballers across the globe?

It also crossed my mind to wonder about Nutters' views on those who boo National Anthems.

dutchwhites63


David Ngog
David Ngog
i think all life matters wheather your black, white or yellow,were all living ppl, its not just for blacks.............so alf. all life matters

boltonbonce

boltonbonce
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:i think all life matters wheather your black, white or yellow,were all living ppl, its not just for blacks.............so alf. all life matters
Are you a vegan?

Whitesince63


Tony Kelly
Tony Kelly
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:I wondered how long it would take someone to mention woke  Rolling Eyes

So Whites your answer to this is to completely ignore that black footballers are being racially abused on a daily basis and pretending it just doesn't happen? Great plan that! 

As far as i know you aren't a black man so both you and i have no idea what it's like to have to put up with the kind of shit that black people in general have to put up with. What do you suggest they do to try and create change?

How do you know black players are being abused every day? What a stupid statement. Some of them have received abuse on social media which seems par for the course but white players also receive abuse. Nobody should have to put up with that but sadly there are some in our society that can’t help themselves. Football has done a great job to raise the cause of black players in this country and fans have played their part in making many of them multi millionaires so if some resent that and post abuse, gestures like taking the knee will do nothing to stop it and probably actually inflame it more. Football didn’t have a racist problem until BLM came along with this stunt and it’s time we dropped it and didn’t let a few assholes posting rubbish on line drag us back.

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