Bolton's Finances / Accounts for year ending 30th June 2021 and everything else since.

There is a large selection of words to chose from, Sluffy, to describe the failure to honour a debt. Many of them are not very nice. 

Your previous description sanitised the position imo although I wouldn't conclude that that was necessarily your intention. The latest position seems to be that PBP have been 'shoved to the back of the queue' again or the debt 'kicked down the road' if you  prefer.

If I was Tom Morris I would not be amused. Could it be that that's why our shirt sponsors are the Khazi Chiefs and not Home Bargains?

Bob, we have no idea of what the feelings or intentions are of FV and PBP in respect of each other, all we know is what is shown on the accounts.

You may be absolutely right, you may be miles away from the truth.

You disregarded completely what I said some several weeks ago when I stated that the PBP loan had been renegotiated, and poo-poohed me over it - because of your personal and seemingly fixed view on this matter.

You seemed to have placed your personal standpoint in regards to this matter even ahead of the facts so much so that I had to remind you of what the accounts had actually stated in order to end your continual ridiculing.

Anyway, whatever has gone on/is going on, it seems the debt is finally being addressed.

If I've read the accounts correctly PBP should have received in August 2023 a quarter payment  of the £5.5m loan, and if so should be reflected in the next accounts ending June 2024.

You are the expert when it comes to accountancy Bob, not me, and you have helped and guided me tremendously over the last few years, which I fully acknowledge and thank you for.

However you are not always correct in your interpretations (you recently challenged me to prove you wrong before - and I DID, as I'm sure you  remember!) and I'm not always wrong in mine.

I'm not here to challenge, upstage or undermine you or whatever you may want to believe, I simply am trying my best to understand what's happening at the club we all support - and I will continue my best to do that with or without your help and support.

As I am fond of sayings, it would seem fitting to end by saying 'two brains are better than one' but with Barry and now Terry's input perhaps I should say 'many brains are better than one' (apart from cooks - when they are making broth!).

I (and hopefully many others) would love to know if you agree or not with my analysis of what I've spotted from the accounts and what other nuggets you find that I have missed.

Up to you of course if you wish to do so or not.

Silly question, Sluffy, but  was it a 5-minute argument you wanted or the full half-hour?

I'm not looking for an argument I never do.

I just call out fantasy, fake news, bullshit and lies.

And you are no exception to that.

PBP have the power to enforce the loan - and haven't.

If they are in a confrontational position with FV then why have they waived £1.7m in interest charges owed to them???

Why have they then willingly renegotiated the loan further until 2026?

They have the same security on the hotel as BluMarble held - namely a charge over the legal mortgage of the Hotel (Charge Code 1208 6161 0005)

BluMarble threatened to enforce the debt owed to them by foreclosure of the hotel.

BluMarble was promptly settled.

PBP could do the exact same thing if they are in a confrontational position with FV as you clearly believe they are because they want their money back.  It states so in the charge under 10.2 Discretion (page 23) of the contract between PBP and FV.

They haven't - they've first let the debt extend beyond the payment day, they then appeared to write off £1.7m owed to them in interest and agreed to a down payment and payment in full for a further years extension, and now a further renegotiation to a settlement three years later

BluMarble wanted their money back and got it.

PBP could easily do the same but instead has in effect allowed a 5 year loan turn into a 10 year one, waived all the interest to date apparently and have received only one payment instalment in seven years (and we don't know for sure that they even received that for definite!).

If Tom Morris really wanted his money back he would have got it by now.

Dale Vince wanted his money - and got it (well he got his player back in lieu of it) by threatening a Winding Up Order.

BluMarble wanted their money back - and got it by threatening a Winding Up Order.

According to you PBP want their money back but instead have been forced to wait 10 years instead of 5 for it, not been paid a penny until last year (7 years from the start of the loan) happily wrote off £1.7m of interest owed to them, and renegotiated the loan TWICE more instead of simply foreclosing on the hotel.


The facts suggest PBP are bending over backwards to help FV out and not in a war against them for repayment - doesn't it?

And if all of that doesn't convince you it isn't a soft loan - then take a look at the signatures of the deed...














...Michael James signed on behalf of both FV AND PBP!!!


Kia ora to you - as the Maori's say.

So it’s the full half-hour. And then some.

Bob, you certainly like to think you know it all - but you don't.

You have exactly the same knowledge as I do on this as we simply haven't been party to the negotiations and multiple subsequent discussions and agreements with those involved with the loan and following changes to it.

YOU have decided that PBP have had their pants pulled down by FV who have not honoured the debt - and maybe you are correct BUT you DON'T KNOW that to be a fact, it is only your OPINION on what MIGHT be the case.

I've put forward a different and completely rational view based on the same information you had, starting from when FV took on the loan, under a new contract signed on the 28th August 2019 between FV and PBP and was signed on behalf of both parties by Michael James in his capacity as an authorised person to do so by both parties (borrowing - one of the owners of FV) and (lending - one of the Directors of PBP) to the loan.

(Isn't that similar in many ways to what Eddie Davies did being himself both owner of Burnden Leisure and provider of loans from his own company Moonshift - and wasn't that seen as a 'soft' loan?)

We already knew from the previous accounts that PBP offered to write off the accrued interest if the loan was settled in full and we now also know that that arrangement was superseded by an agreement to extended the loan by a further year for a 25% down payment off the loan and full settlement a year later (August 2024) and that the £1.7m interest on the loan to that point was written off.

Seems to me there was still plenty goodwill between both parties at that point - otherwise why didn't PBP simply just enforce the loan as per the contract terms - ie take ownership of the hotel?

It seems that even the year extension settlement needed yet a further negotiation and a new agreement was reached with a 25% down payment and a further 3 year extension (now to August 2026) with three equal payment of the remaining loan being paid annually.

Now if I was PBP and wanted my money back would I really want to keep giving FV more and more time if all they've been doing is screwing me over, time and time again???

Would I fuck and neither would you, nor anyone else with a brain in their head.

My guess is that it is far more likely that the PBP loan money is actually in someway James own personal money (or rather money under James control) and that he has side agreements elsewhere with Morris in respect of this sum.

Whatever the agreement may be between them (or even if I'm completely wrong that such an agreement exists) the simple fact remains that PBP have not taken one single step to call in their debt and instead given FV every single opportunity to defer and extend repayments and even written off £1.7m owed to them in non paid interest on the loan.

So which is the more plausible explanation of the facts as we know them - your continual screwing of PBP by FV for the last 5 years or my soft loan facility?

Neither of us know what it really is - you just ACT as though you do.

Kia ora again to you.

One thing I know for sure, Sluffy, is that you 'lost it' some time ago.

Lets be succint, I also know that it would be folly to even begin to explain the mindless meanderings and multiple misrepresentations that in your head passes for 'thinking'.

Sluffy wrote:Bob had a pop at me because he doesn't like to be stood up to, nothing at all to do with this thread at all.

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Point proven.

Poor old Sluffy. He's not the purveyor of long-winded, rambling, prattle that we know and love so well. And heaven forbid that anyone should think he was the kind of person that could start an argument in an empty room.

Oh no, that must be someone else. Sluffy's just the misunderstood victim of naughty boys out to do him down; a bit like Prince Harry and Humza Yousaf.

Maguire has posted up some charts for last seasons accounts for our division.

The only thing that really caught my eye was that apparently the players average weekly wage last season was £10,000 per week - it's obviously going to be more this season with the signings we have made.