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Universal Credits - a good thing or a bad one?

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Sluffy

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Admin
As a life long worker who has never claimed a single benefit - it's hard for me to actually comprehend those who seem happy enough to live off the backs of the rest of us.

I was brought up that if I wanted something, I had to work for it and not to expect it simply to be given to me.

I know life as moved on since my days but I consider it the right thing to do that the Government changes things around from being better off on benefits than actually working.

How can that be possibly even be the case - when it is the tax on the workers that funds the benefits the others receive?

As I understand things Universal Credits will start to turn things around so financially it will be better off to work that sit at home waiting for your benefit payments to reach your bank account.

Clearly there does seem to be some implementation issues - but those apart - is UC the way forward - or will the masses object and riot like they did when the poll tax was going to be the next big step forward?

Bread2.0

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Andy Walker
Andy Walker
That was a party political broadcast on behalf of the Sluffy Party, subtitled with: "Poor people! Stop fucking scrounging, you cunts!"

Tune in again tomorrow for why Muslims should "Tone the terrorism down a bit" and how "It'd be better if the gays just stopped banging on and kept it indoors."

Don't worry, I'll just get my coat and let myself out......

Natasha Whittam

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Sluffy wrote:As a life long worker who has never claimed a single benefit - it's hard for me to actually comprehend those who seem happy enough to live off the backs of the rest of us.


Lucky you. But a lot of people don't have that luxury, especially people much younger. You can lose your job overnight through no fault of your own. The benefit system is there to help these people.

Of course there are people that scrounge off the system but they are a small minority.

boltonbonce

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Have to agree with Nat and Bread.

I'm hoping you were playing devil's advocate,Sluffy,because,if not,you've painted a rather unfortunate picture of yourself.

gloswhite

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Youri Djorkaeff
Youri Djorkaeff
Agree with Nat. Although the system is good in theory, its not working, and there are a lot of genuine claimants suffering real hardships. 
Bringing in such drastic changes in, in such a haphazard way is wrong, and saying its working for most just isn't good enough.

Bwfc1958

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Tinned Toms - You know it makes sense!
Bread2.0 wrote:That was a party political broadcast on behalf of the Sluffy Party, subtitled with: "Poor people! Stop fucking scrounging, you cunts!"

Tune in again tomorrow for why Muslims should "Tone the terrorism down a bit" and how "It'd be better if the gays just stopped banging on and kept it indoors."

Don't worry, I'll just get my coat and let myself out......
Welcome back bread, this is what's been missing. Although there was a serious point behind it, it did make me laugh.  Very Happy

boltonbonce

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

Bread2.0

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Andy Walker
Andy Walker
FFS.....it's 2017, for Christ's sake.

And yet shit like this is becoming ever more common.

Where did we go wrong?

Apart from millions of working class people foolishly voting Tory, that is.

okocha

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Tony Kelly
Tony Kelly
Sluffy, I know you like starting threads  that can be debated on here, but I'm presuming that this one is not a serious viewpoint. Otherwise, it's very sad. The responses to your original post show the appropriate compassion and understanding of the reality of the situation. 

Plus, you've set Bread off on a (justified) rant! Please don't antagonise him! Sad

gloswhite

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Youri Djorkaeff
Youri Djorkaeff
Unfortunately Breaders, this is just another example of society itself coming undone, and its powered by the people as much as any government.

wanderlust

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Sluffy wrote:As a life long worker who has never claimed a single benefit - it's hard for me to actually comprehend those who seem happy enough to live off the backs of the rest of us.

I was brought up that if I wanted something, I had to work for it and not to expect it simply to be given to me.

I know life as moved on since my days but I consider it the right thing to do that the Government changes things around from being better off on benefits than actually working.

How can that be possibly even be the case - when it is the tax on the workers that funds the benefits the others receive?

As I understand things Universal Credits will start to turn things around so financially it will be better off to work that sit at home waiting for your benefit payments to reach your bank account.

Clearly there does seem to be some implementation issues - but those apart - is UC the way forward - or will the masses object and riot like they did when the poll tax was going to be the next big step forward?
In your first sentence you seem to questioning the concept of the welfare state itself rather than Universal Credits in particular and that is an entirely different debate as it brings into play the arguments about who should bear the cost of supporting those who by society's own measures are in need and whether or not it should be borne by the families as it was before the welfare state was created.
I agree that the welfare state is flawed and open to abuse but surely that is only because the criteria are in part subjectively assessed and often poorly implemented? It is an inefficient system resulting in some people falling through the cracks.
However the immediate issue with UC is the delay in agreed payments which has the knock on effect of putting the vulnerable at even greater risk and the Government need to get it sorted out asap. 
The deeper societal issue for me is one of context. Yes we have to balance the books as a society but we choose as a nation to determine how we spend the £800 billion a year revenue and it is fundamental to Tory politics to make cuts at the lower end of society rather than to tax the rich or cancel whimsical - and to some extent in the modern era irrelevant - projects like Trident which puts massive chunks of our society's money into the hands of international arms dealers rather than helping our own.
I know we all want an end to benefit cheats and with Brexit threatening our supply of foreign labour we want/increasingly need the unemployed to get into work but there has to be a safety net for those who are disadvantaged through no fault of their own and if the Government want to achieve those goals they need to make the system both fair and efficient rather than presiding over the chaotic mess that is currently causing all the problems and disputes.

Soul Kitchen

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Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo
Perhaps we should have more travellers who shit everywhere up and leave somebody else to shift the shit?
You can't beat turning up for a local football match and the pitch has had a going over by a four x four.

rammywhite

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El Hadji Diouf
El Hadji Diouf
To go back to the original question about UC and not the purpose of the welfare state., I think if we were starting from scratch the idea of a Universal credit ,makes sense-all the payments rolled into one according to the criteria which a claimant fulfils  But the trouble is we're not starting from scratch and like so much else in the UK ( like the tax system or the NHS) we have  a complex system which had been added to ,deleted from, frequently amended and made more complex by changing the rules, so that we have and need  an industry of benefit advisors guiding claimants through the system to see what they're entitled to. Its just too complex to change from  a very granular system of benefits to a one off system when claimants situations are  often changing  very frequently ..  Its just too complex and needed a much more gradual simplification.

The outcome is genuine poverty, serious health issues and deep stress amongst those entitled to claim.
Some individuals have received no support for up to six weeks and then see their entitlements slashed meaning they can't feed themselves or their kids.
Like many political initiatives ( from both parties)it was great in theory but has turned out to be a disaster in practice.
Political correctness has attempted to triumph over systemic confusion but has failed and the outcome appears to be an unnecessary human tragedy if we are to believe the press.

wanderlust

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Soul Kitchen wrote:Perhaps we should have more travellers who shit everywhere up and leave somebody else to shift the shit?
You can't beat turning up for a local football match and the pitch has had a going over by a four x four.
...a very interesting perspective on...erm... something.

Soul Kitchen

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Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo
wanderlust wrote:
Soul Kitchen wrote:Perhaps we should have more travellers who shit everywhere up and leave somebody else to shift the shit?
You can't beat turning up for a local football match and the pitch has had a going over by a four x four.
...a very interesting perspective on...erm... something.
Are they not scroungers? 
Bolton Council have just spent a mint on repairing some football pitches, used for rounders in the summer, in Bolton and these rswipes repeatedly keep turning up with their tin tents and fucking the pitches up!
Hope this clarifies?

karlypants

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Soul Kitchen wrote:
wanderlust wrote:
Soul Kitchen wrote:Perhaps we should have more travellers who shit everywhere up and leave somebody else to shift the shit?
You can't beat turning up for a local football match and the pitch has had a going over by a four x four.
...a very interesting perspective on...erm... something.
Are they not scroungers? 
Bolton Council have just spent a mint on repairing some football pitches, used for rounders in the summer, in Bolton and these rswipes repeatedly keep turning up with their tin tents and fucking the pitches up!
Hope this clarifies?
Not sure how you can compare gypsies to people on benefits to be honest SK...

Soul Kitchen

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Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo
karlypants wrote:
Soul Kitchen wrote:
wanderlust wrote:
Soul Kitchen wrote:Perhaps we should have more travellers who shit everywhere up and leave somebody else to shift the shit?
You can't beat turning up for a local football match and the pitch has had a going over by a four x four.
...a very interesting perspective on...erm... something.
Are they not scroungers? 
Bolton Council have just spent a mint on repairing some football pitches, used for rounders in the summer, in Bolton and these rswipes repeatedly keep turning up with their tin tents and fucking the pitches up!
Hope this clarifies?
Not sure how you can compare gypsies to people on benefits to be honest SK...
It's simples, one sponges off the tax payer willingly and one doesn't!

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