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What was the moment.

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1 What was the moment. on Tue Apr 17 2018, 18:56

Hipster_Nebula

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Where it all went wrong for the club.

Big Sam leaving.
Holden getting injured
Hiring Lennon?

Sacking Dougie Freedman was the moment for me. I don't think we'll ever get back in the premier league under the current ownership.

Awful.

2 Re: What was the moment. on Tue Apr 17 2018, 20:17

boltonbonce

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Big Sam leaving.
Replacing him with little Sam was the beginning of the end.

3 Re: What was the moment. on Tue Apr 17 2018, 20:19

xmiles

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Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo
Hipster_Nebula wrote:Where it all went wrong for the club.

Big Sam leaving.
Holden getting injured
Hiring Lennon?

Sacking Dougie Freedman was the moment for me. I don't think we'll ever get back in the premier league under the current ownership.

Awful.

There is a lot we do agree about!

4 Re: What was the moment. on Tue Apr 17 2018, 20:19

xmiles

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Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo
boltonbonce wrote:Big Sam leaving.
Replacing him with little Sam was the beginning of the end.

Completely agree.

5 Re: What was the moment. on Tue Apr 17 2018, 20:41

karlypants

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
boltonbonce wrote:Big Sam leaving.
Replacing him with little Sam was the beginning of the end.
Aargh!....the memories! affraid

6 Re: What was the moment. on Tue Apr 17 2018, 20:43

boltonbonce

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
karlypants wrote:
boltonbonce wrote:Big Sam leaving.
Replacing him with little Sam was the beginning of the end.
Aargh!....the memories! affraid
The moment little Sam appeared,wearing what looked like his Dad's suit,my heart sank.

7 Re: What was the moment. on Tue Apr 17 2018, 20:45

Natasha Whittam

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Megson. Sucked the life out of BWFC. Reserve side in a fucking EUROPEAN game against Sporting!

8 Re: What was the moment. on Tue Apr 17 2018, 20:48

karlypants

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Natasha Whittam wrote:Megson. Sucked the life out of BWFC. Reserve side in a fucking EUROPEAN game against Sporting!
Good god even worse!

He was an absolute prick as well. Will never forget when he turned on the fans like he did the shitbag!

9 Re: What was the moment. on Tue Apr 17 2018, 20:54

boltonbonce

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
No one is immune. I well remember the Lever end chanting 'Lofthouse out' those many years ago. If a legend can get it,anyone can.

10 Re: What was the moment. on Tue Apr 17 2018, 21:19

Sluffy

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Admin
When the penny dropped that although Allardyce had done wonderfully well with his innovative idea of rescuing old quality players whose careers where on the slide, for one last hurrah in the Premier League, that the plan of paying massive wages to players at the end of their careers (and thus with no resale value) was completely financially unsustainable and would require a massive (and costly) rebuild of the squad.

Sam was smart enough to get out at the top but whoever had to follow him - Lee/Megson/Coyle - had to rebuild at short notice - and for players in their prime (in order to step into first team places) - which are expensive in terms of both transfer fees and/or wages paid!

I guess in retrospect the blame should be laid at Phil Gartside's door, as there doesn't seem to have been any planning ahead for what to do when the likes of Okocha, Djorkaeff, Hierro, Stelios, Campo, etc, had to hang up their boots.

It might be a harsh assessment from me but clearly the wheels came off not because Allardyce left but because we could no longer sustain the financial requirement to replace the quality of players that left for free around that time or thereabouts and also by that time we were starting to run up pretty big debts.

We lived the dream under Sam, I guess - and been paying for it ever since!

11 Re: What was the moment. on Tue Apr 17 2018, 21:27

boltonbonce

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Little Sam was a huge mistake. Whoever took over would have problems,as you mention above Sluffy,but an old,experienced head was the order of the day.
I think Gartside gave the job to Lee in order to have one final dig at the big man.

12 Re: What was the moment. on Tue Apr 17 2018, 22:02

DEANO82


Tony Kelly
Tony Kelly
Natasha Whittam wrote:Megson. Sucked the life out of BWFC. Reserve side in a fucking EUROPEAN game against Sporting!
He put a reserve side out against Bayern as well.

13 Re: What was the moment. on Tue Apr 17 2018, 22:05

rammywhite

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Frank Worthington
Frank Worthington
Hiring Megson who had always been a bore as had the football he had always played

14 Re: What was the moment. on Tue Apr 17 2018, 22:12

finlaymcdanger

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El Hadji Diouf
El Hadji Diouf
Of course there is no ‘moment’ that defines it ALL going wrong but...Megson. Hull. 2-2. I have never recovered.

15 Re: What was the moment. on Tue Apr 17 2018, 22:16

karlypants

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
finlaymcdanger wrote:Of course there is no ‘moment’ that defines it ALL going wrong but...Megson. Hull. 2-2. I have never recovered.
Remember going to this game when we were 2 up. Shocked

16 Re: What was the moment. on Tue Apr 17 2018, 23:06

observer


Andy Walker
Andy Walker
Sluffy wrote:When the penny dropped that although Allardyce had done wonderfully well with his innovative idea of rescuing old quality players whose careers where on the slide, for one last hurrah in the Premier League, that the plan of paying massive wages to players at the end of their careers (and thus with no resale value) was completely financially unsustainable and would require a massive (and costly) rebuild of the squad.

Sam was smart enough to get out at the top but whoever had to follow him - Lee/Megson/Coyle - had to rebuild at short notice - and for players in their prime (in order to step into first team places) - which are expensive in terms of both transfer fees and/or wages paid!

I guess in retrospect the blame should be laid at Phil Gartside's door, as there doesn't seem to have been any planning ahead for what to do when the likes of Okocha, Djorkaeff, Hierro, Stelios, Campo, etc, had to hang up their boots.

It might be a harsh assessment from me but clearly the wheels came off not because Allardyce left but because we could no longer sustain the financial requirement to replace the quality of players that left for free around that time or thereabouts and also by that time we were starting to run up pretty big debts.

We lived the dream under Sam, I guess - and been paying for it ever since!

The question which maybe we should consider, was Sam's request for more money a solid idea?  Could we have achieved Championship League Football, which would have more than offset the additional cost.  I'm not sure if that was a good idea, but I'm more concerned with the overall financial stability that was lacking after BSA.  Some of these knuckleheads have made the worst decisions imaginable... with forgettable players making unimaginable salaries.  Perhaps the worst decision was not having relegation clauses in their contracts.  Those are top management decisions and I'm not sure PG let ED know what was really going on.  ED may have only found out when PG was seriously ill.  That may have forced his hand to abandon the club precipitously.  Whatever, I hope we survive this season... albeit one point above the bottom three will do for me.  Please don't let the Wolves run up our GD... or we could be relegated by that same GD.

17 Re: What was the moment. on Tue Apr 17 2018, 23:07

observer


Andy Walker
Andy Walker
karlypants wrote:
finlaymcdanger wrote:Of course there is no ‘moment’ that defines it ALL going wrong but...Megson. Hull. 2-2. I have never recovered.
Remember going to this game when we were 2 up. Shocked
A very poor ref decision cost us the game as I recall.

18 Re: What was the moment. on Tue Apr 17 2018, 23:13

T.R.O.Y


Tony Kelly
Tony Kelly
Simply not true that Allardyce was reliant on old quality players, we’d evolved since then. Diouf, Anelka, Davies, Faye, Ben Haim, Nolan, O’Brien, all big players 06/07 and all under 30.

19 Re: What was the moment. on Wed Apr 18 2018, 08:52

Norpig

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
For me it was the Holden injury, people tend to forget Uncle Owen was doing a decent job until that point. Then Holden was out and we had other injuries and then THAT semi-final. We never recovered from that spell and Coyle had no plan B the following season when things started to go wrong

20 Re: What was the moment. on Wed Apr 18 2018, 08:53

boltonbonce

avatar
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Norpig wrote:For me it was the Holden injury, people tend to forget Uncle Owen was doing a decent job until that point. Then Holden was out and we had other injuries and then THAT semi-final. We never recovered from that spell and Coyle had no plan B the following season when things started to go wrong
Feel really bad for Holden. He had a great career ahead of him.

21 Re: What was the moment. on Wed Apr 18 2018, 09:18

rammywhite

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Frank Worthington
Frank Worthington
boltonbonce wrote:
Norpig wrote:For me it was the Holden injury, people tend to forget Uncle Owen was doing a decent job until that point. Then Holden was out and we had other injuries and then THAT semi-final. We never recovered from that spell and Coyle had no plan B the following season when things started to go wrong
Feel really bad for Holden. He had a great career ahead of him.

And the bloke who did him is still making a fortune playing- and that makes it even worse. I hate him as much as I hate that Welsh cheat,Savage

22 Re: What was the moment. on Wed Apr 18 2018, 11:00

Hipster_Nebula

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
observer wrote:
karlypants wrote:
finlaymcdanger wrote:Of course there is no ‘moment’ that defines it ALL going wrong but...Megson. Hull. 2-2. I have never recovered.
Remember going to this game when we were 2 up. Shocked
A very poor ref decision cost us the game as I recall.

I remember Megson's interview after the game too. Total distain for the fans.

"That's what you get ere" when asked about the boos. He was a total wanker but the decision to hire Sammy Lee was much much worse than the one to hire Megson for me

23 Re: What was the moment. on Wed Apr 18 2018, 11:05

karlypants

avatar
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Hipster_Nebula wrote:
observer wrote:
karlypants wrote:
finlaymcdanger wrote:Of course there is no ‘moment’ that defines it ALL going wrong but...Megson. Hull. 2-2. I have never recovered.
Remember going to this game when we were 2 up. Shocked
A very poor ref decision cost us the game as I recall.

I remember Megson's interview after the game too. Total distain for the fans.

"That's what you get ere" when asked about the boos. He was a total wanker but the decision to hire Sammy Lee was much much worse than the one to hire Megson for me

He had a pop against the fans when we lost a 2 goal lead against BBurn as well which ended up a draw.

He really is a cock.

24 Re: What was the moment. on Wed Apr 18 2018, 11:09

Natasha Whittam

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Hipster_Nebula wrote: the decision to hire Sammy Lee was much much worse than the one to hire Megson for me

Obviously the Lee period wasn't great, but I don't remember any major unrest when the appointment was made.

We were quite successful back then, and clubs are always looking for continuity, so the Sammy Lee appointment made sense.

25 Re: What was the moment. on Wed Apr 18 2018, 11:25

Hipster_Nebula

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Davies and Nolan went to gartside after Sammy Lee dropped campo. Think this was about 2 games into his reign.

They should have actually taken the time to look for a proper established manager at that time considering we were a top 10 premier league team with big name players.

Lee was a terrible terrible appointment

26 Re: What was the moment. on Wed Apr 18 2018, 11:31

wanderlust

avatar
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Sluffy wrote:When the penny dropped that although Allardyce had done wonderfully well with his innovative idea of rescuing old quality players whose careers where on the slide, for one last hurrah in the Premier League, that the plan of paying massive wages to players at the end of their careers (and thus with no resale value) was completely financially unsustainable and would require a massive (and costly) rebuild of the squad.

Sam was smart enough to get out at the top but whoever had to follow him - Lee/Megson/Coyle - had to rebuild at short notice - and for players in their prime (in order to step into first team places) - which are expensive in terms of both transfer fees and/or wages paid!

I guess in retrospect the blame should be laid at Phil Gartside's door, as there doesn't seem to have been any planning ahead for what to do when the likes of Okocha, Djorkaeff, Hierro, Stelios, Campo, etc, had to hang up their boots.

It might be a harsh assessment from me but clearly the wheels came off not because Allardyce left but because we could no longer sustain the financial requirement to replace the quality of players that left for free around that time or thereabouts and also by that time we were starting to run up pretty big debts.

We lived the dream under Sam, I guess - and been paying for it ever since!

I broadly agree with this and would add that I'm pretty sure PG was responsible for - and knew about - the financial overspend and that we also had some pretty bad luck along the way, not just injuries but getting relegated by the narrowest of margins. I'll never gorget Tim Ream coming in for a header at the death away at Stoke and somehow not getting the goal that would have kept us up.
We always seem to lose out by very narrow margins which is why I am concerned this season because if it comes down to the last game, it will be us that loses out if history has anything to do with it.

27 Re: What was the moment. on Wed Apr 18 2018, 12:43

Natasha Whittam

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Hipster_Nebula wrote:Lee was a terrible terrible appointment

You didn't think so at the time:

Le God wrote:The Lee appointment makes sense, albeit totally underwhelming

28 Re: What was the moment. on Wed Apr 18 2018, 13:22

Hipster_Nebula

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
I was a drug user at that time.

29 Re: What was the moment. on Wed Apr 18 2018, 20:56

xmiles

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Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo
Hipster_Nebula wrote:I was a drug user at that time.

That explains a lot.

30 Re: What was the moment. on Thu Apr 19 2018, 22:48

wessy

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Andy Walker
Andy Walker
I always thought that once Sam left we would spiral down and be relegated at some point, however it didn't really happen we survived under various managers for a few seasons, so for me it was the Stoke semi at that point we were doing well in the premiership and was favorites to win and go on to the FA Cup final.

That defeat and the actual team selection and the way they played at Wembley started the rot on the field. Whilst by that time the financial situation off the field was already out of control.

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