If Jaaskelainen has been our best ever keeper who has been the second best?

wessy wrote:
Yep sounds right you now know how i look lol 

I am only 5'6" and weigh 10 stone 4lb thats the heaviest i have ever been, my racing weight was around 8 stone 6lb, i am naturally slim but i ran 60-80+ miles a week for around 25 years. feel better for a bit of weight now. but metabolism and genes are a major thing just so you hate me even  more never been on a diet.

I've got a Ron Hill cap I bought this year from his clothing shop. I'll put it on tomorrow and walk briskly to the paper shop.
It's as close as I'll get to serious running these days. I don't think Ron missed a days running up to 2017 or thereabouts.

He had a running streak of 52 years for most of that he ran twice a day and once on Sundays, remarkable, he once had an operation and limped around to keep it going lol, used to run around airports when travelling to races. as well as being the best marathon runner in the world he also started and ran Ron Hill sports designing all the kit. Ran barefoot in some top races including a winter cross country when he forgot his shoes.

One easter he won a 7 mile road race on Good Friday, Won the Rivington Pike Fell race on Easter saturday then on the Monday won the Barnsley marathon. = Alf Tupper

wessy wrote:He had a running streak of 52 years for most of that he ran twice a day and once on Sundays, remarkable, he once had an operation and limped around to keep it going lol, used to run around airports when travelling to races. as well as being the best marathon runner in the world he also started and ran Ron Hill sports designing all the kit. Ran barefoot in some top races including a winter cross country when he forgot his shoes.

One easter he won a 7 mile road race on Good Friday, Won the Rivington Pike Fell race on Easter saturday then on the Monday won the Barnsley marathon. = Alf Tupper

What a man. Alf Tupper is right. And some footballers have to play twice a week.

T.R.O.Y. wrote:Almost forgot about the Doidge ‘transfer’, what a shambles that was.

Doidge transfer a shambles? That's true enough. 

BWFC desparately needed 'investment' to survive. The best chance was to stay in the Championship. They'd stayed in it by the skin of the teeth the previous season and needed another striker but couldn't afford one. Couldn't even afford the wages so Anderson did a deal with Vanity Vince. FGR would pay Doidge's wages (or to be more exact Ecotricity bond holders paid the wages) and, if Anderson got the needed investment, FGR would get a million quid in January.
 
Happy days all round except new investment didn't materialise and ED died less than a fortnight after the deal was done. January comes round, money isn't there, Vince aided and abetted by the BN and the ST, kicks off whilst a gaggle of dopey BWFC fans wearing their NoKenDo shirts swan off to FGR for a free pint and a veggie burger. You couldn't make it up!

Interesting, I haven’t heard this theory before - do you have any facts to support it?

T.R.O.Y. wrote:Interesting, I haven’t heard this theory before - do you have any facts to support it?

Has the last few months taught you nothing?

All our milk's gone off.

wessy wrote:
Yep sounds right you now know how i look lol 

I am only 5'6" and weigh 10 stone 4lb thats the heaviest i have ever been, my racing weight was around 8 stone 6lb, i am naturally slim but i ran 60-80+ miles a week for around 25 years. feel better for a bit of weight now. but metabolism and genes are a major thing just so you hate me even  more never been on a diet.

You jammy bastard!
But TBF I admire you for the running - although personally, I don't do it by choice but I have to keep moving just to stop putting the pounds on. I like my food and drink - a lot. The young lads I play footie with are great about it and are clearly concerned about my wellbeing. 
Well they're always saying I should do more running anyway ....

T.R.O.Y. wrote:Interesting, I haven’t heard this theory before - do you have any facts to support it?

Not so much a theory as a statement of all known facts in a logical and rational sequence. But if you think any of it’s wrong maybe you could explain which bit and why.

I've no idea if it's right or wrong, seems rational enough aside from FGR giving us their top scorer and paying wages with no payment agreed - so i was just wondering if the theory is supported by any facts.

wanderlust wrote:
You jammy bastard!
But TBF I admire you for the running - although personally, I don't do it by choice but I have to keep moving just to stop putting the pounds on. I like my food and drink - a lot. The young lads I play footie with are great about it and are clearly concerned about my wellbeing. 
Well they're always saying I should do more running anyway ....

Ha ha didn't feel Jammy mid January hearing the rain or hail hit the bedroom window before i ran to work (5miles) Started playing walking football now great fun

T.R.O.Y. wrote:I've no idea if it's right or wrong, seems rational enough aside from FGR giving us their top scorer and paying wages with no payment agreed - so i was just wondering if the theory is supported by any facts.

They weren't giving us their top scorer, they were  selling him for what they believed to be a good price. One goal in 17 games at Championship level suggests it was too much.

Only problem was that the buyers didn't have the money to buy him or pay his wages but plainly hoped they would/might have in a few months time.

FGR was losing money but not strapped for cash -that came from Ecotricity - so they could afford to wait. Worst case scenario for FGR was that they'd be a football creditor who get paid in full in any case.

As for Doidge and his agent, they knew full well that he was going to a club that had been unable to pay wages the month before he signed and ought to have known that BWFC could not survive without new money from somewhere.

Nowt complicated about it all really.

Sluffy your question was “ If Jaskeleinen has been our best ever keeper, who has been our second?”

Both Jussi and Hoppy are have BEENS, so why are you trying to dismiss Hoppy as having BEEN our best after Jussi. Whether he would or wouldn’t be capable of playing in today’s game is irrelevant and given his height I agree with you, it’s probably certain that he wouldn’t get signed today but you can’t take away what he did in an era far more physical than today. As usual it’s all about opinions and in mine Jussi and Hoppy were head and shoulders above any others we’ve had since.

I highly doubt Doidge would have bought a house in the area if he or his agent had even the smallest inkling he wouldn't be signed permanently in January.

Whitesince63 wrote:Sluffy your question was “ If Jaskeleinen has been our best ever keeper, who has been our second?”

Both Jussi and Hoppy are have BEENS, so why are you trying to dismiss Hoppy as having BEEN our best after Jussi. Whether he would or wouldn’t be capable of playing in today’s game is irrelevant and given his height I agree with you, it’s probably certain that he wouldn’t get signed today but you can’t take away what he did in an era far more physical than today. As usual it’s all about opinions and in mine Jussi and Hoppy were head and shoulders above any others we’ve had since.

I'm sorry I started all this in the first place!

Clearly most people simply can't grasp my original point so I'll try and explain it again.

My question was basically rank our keepers in order of being the best - yes?

When you rank people you do it in order, best first, next best second and so on - yes?

So my definition how can you put someone who wouldn't be able to get in to todays teams as first or second?

If he couldn't possibly get in the team now it clearly must mean that the current incumbents have got to be better than him - otherwise he would be in the team!

It's as simple as that.

You/others can't say someone wouldn't get in the team these days because of his lack of height but is a better keeper than the one in the team now because that's a direct contradiction of what you are saying!

He's either good enough to play now at 5ft 8 inches tall or he's NOT good enough to play now because he's ONLY 5ft 8 inches tall.

If it's the latter then by definition whoever is in the team now must be ranked higher than him simply because (if you allow the pun) the goalposts have been shifted and shorter keepers like Hopkinson was could no longer compete in the current era.

Jussi has only recently retired so he clearly could play in this era, Al-Habsi has just retired so he clearly could to and Matthews who played for us last season is still in the game - so by your own admission if Hopkinson couldn't then there MUST be at least three players better than him!

I'm not taking away how wonderful he was in his own generation, I'm not disrespecting what he achieved for England and our club, I'm not trash talking many people's favourite, I'm simply saying if you ranked the players as to who is the best - and at least THREE players can and have got into Bolton teams that physically Hopkinson could not, then he simply can not be one of the two best keepers we EVER had.

Can he?

Ten Bobsworth wrote:
They weren't giving us their top scorer, they were  selling him for what they believed to be a good price. One goal in 17 games at Championship level suggests it was too much.

Only problem was that the buyers didn't have the money to buy him or pay his wages but plainly hoped they would/might have in a few months time.

FGR was losing money but not strapped for cash -that came from Ecotricity - so they could afford to wait. Worst case scenario for FGR was that they'd be a football creditor who get paid in full in any case.

As for Doidge and his agent, they knew full well that he was going to a club that had been unable to pay wages the month before he signed and ought to have known that BWFC could not survive without new money from somewhere.

Nowt complicated about it all really.

All I'm asking is - how do you know that your version of what was agreed in the deal vs FGR's version is the accurate one?

Your version - Bolton agreed to pay on the condition they got investment - which never came so couldn't Doidge 'transfer' cancelled, presumably as agreed at the outset in a situation of no investment.

Vince's version - Bolton failed to make agreed payments for Doidge.

I think you are taking this too literally Sluffy, it's all subjective but all you can do is look at their respective records in their eras and judge from that. Not sure how you can say someone like Matthews would be judged as better just because they play now and Hopkinson probably couldn't?

Stanley Matthews or Brickfeet? Now we know.

Just for your information, it is in fact Jim McDonagh whom has been Boltons best Goalkeeper.

Norpig wrote:I highly doubt Doidge would have bought a house in the area if he or his agent had even the smallest inkling he wouldn't be signed permanently in January.

Doidge was definitely going to be bought - there would have been a contract signed to the effect.

He was in no different position to the one Matthews was in at the time.

Clearly Eddie Davies was going to be the backstop position to fund the completion of the transfers if need be but sadly he unexpectedly died just a few weeks after the initial deals were struck.

The transfers were to be completed on the 1st January but clearly there were no monies to do so but there was a payment due within a week or so from the EFL and Anderson clearly let both clubs be aware that that was the means of how the deals would be concluded - indeed Vince himself even said initially that it wasn't an issue to wait whilst things were sorted.

However just a couple of days later he went public blasting Anderson - so something obviously changed in those two or three days!

The weird thing that came out at that time was Vince saying he was producing the T-shirts 'No Ken do' with all proceeds going to the BWFC Supporters Trust???

Why?

For what reason?

No smoke without fire.

It seems a completely random thing to do unless of course there had been some contact between the two leading up to his announcement.

The net result was that Norwich and the Matthews deal went smoothly and Vince was paid the wages for Doidge from the EFL payment but by that time had hoicked Doidge back from the £1m deal only to sell him at a half million loss at the end of the season to Hibs.

All seems rather strange when both parties Anderson and Vince knew they were contractually obliged to the transfer and both knew that no matter what the money would be paid with it being a 'footballing creditor' requirement just a week or so later than planned from the scheduled EFL payment.

Seems to me someone whispered in to Vince's ear.

I wonder who and what their reasons might have been?

Answers on a postcard.